My heart may not be in it, but I could never live with myself if I didn't vote Democratic

[Bucky]

I really don't care too much about abortion rights. As a man, it doesn't affect me at all and frankly I find abortion to be a tragedy. But it's wrong to let the government control people's bodies--and the "pro-life" movement is really a big part of the right wing's reactionary war on women. If the Democratic nominee loses, we will see Roe overturned in the next 10 years. I must show up and vote no matter what.

I'm not Arabic and I'm not even slightly swarthy--flying in an airplane is never a problem for me; I never get singled out. No one's bugging my phone. I have no real secrets to hide. And yet, if the Democratic nominee loses, the Republican Justice Department will continue its war on the Bill of Rights and our country will continue its drift toward a police state. I must show up and vote no matter what.

I'm a teacher with a secure salary, barely acceptable health coverage, and a more or less safe pension to protect me when I'm a dirty old man. I don't need pension protection or improved health care. But Republican economic policies are slowing destroying the middle class and putting at risk all the things that our parents' generation fought to put into place to make this a safe, strong, and prosperous country. If the Democratic nominee loses, jobs will migrate overseas, pensions will by looted by heartless corporations, the middle class will evaporate, the budget will sink deeper into the red, and employers will pursue their long term goals of emasculating labor unions. I must show up and vote no matter what.

I want Obama to be our nominee, but I must show up and vote no matter what.

[geardaddy]

1. Bravo. n/t

[JuniperLea]

2. Good for you, Bucky

I hope you influence a lot of people here... people in both camps. It's a tight race, no matter who you listen to, it's tight as all hell. There won't be a clear winner for some time, that is painfully apparent to those of us who have not consumed mass quantities of Kampaign Kool Aid... I don't much care who wins this. They are very much alike from my POV as an Edwards voter.

To not vote because you are throwing a hissy fit is to beg for McCain to win. Pretty freaking stupid!

Thanks again for taking the high road, Bucky! You are an inspiration!

[Bucky]

36. I am an inspiration

I totally rock!

[JuniperLea]

37. I guess you do!

:yourock:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. My dear Bucky...

Well said...

And I'm proud to have given you your fifth rec!

Every point you've made is right on target...

:patriot:

[Bucky]

9. So it was you!

I thought that fifth rec looked like it had some lipstick smeared on it!

[wryter2000]

4. To the greatest page

Exactly how I feel about this campaign. I will tell you, though, that what money I have for donations will go to other candidates, such as Al Franken.

[Bucky]

7. Thanks for that. I won't like the way a Clinton nomination will make me feel like a hostage

But if she wins, I won't hold back my support. Too much is at stake. I won't hold back criticizing if she's elected.

I'm not convinced she'd be anything but a decent president. My objections to her has always been mostly based on her efficacy as a candidate in the general election, her potential efficacy as a president when she often pisses off half of any room she walks into, and a few constitutional quibbles about how her candidacy is a narrow workaround of the principles of rotation in office.

But if she's nominated, I'll donate if called upon to do so. Too too much is at stake.

[IA_Seth]

5. We'll need this commercial aired in October!!

Thanks for this, I agree.

[Taverner]

6. If your prose doesn't convince others, maybe they should read this too:

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[midnight]

8. You make a good point.

Lots of trade offs.

[democrattotheend]

10. Me too

I will vote for the nominee no matter what, but I have to admit that if Clinton gets the nomination, part of me will hope that Obama will get another chance in 4 years. But I will vote and campaign for whoever the nominee is, though I don't promise to contribute financially if Obama is not the nominee.

[melody]

11. Exactly n/t

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. I just don't see how, in good conscience, you can vote for Hillary, especially

if she knocks off Obama (which she won't) using tactics straight from the Rovian handbook. At some point, we need to send a message to our politicians that devotion to the party trumps personal ambition. But I do hear what your saying about your personal situation and how that would compel you to hit the lever for Hillary.

The good news is Obama is going to be our candidate.

[Bucky]

17. Well, it's a good thing you're not my conscience then. :o)

I agree, I still think this nomination is Obama's to lose. But he's got to organize a serious ground game in Pennsylvania and knock it out of the ballpark in Mississippi & North Carolina to bury her before the convention. Clinton's moderately negative campaign is a risky operation, but I think she has a decent chance of an upset here.

I don't particularly care for her campaigning right now. But if the day comes to vote for Clinton or McCain, I'll do the right thing and chastise any Democrat who'd rather give half a vote to McCain by holding back one vote needed by our party's nominee. That goes double for the egregiously silly people saying they won't vote for Obama if he wins.

Both are flaky, self destructive actions.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. Your position is certainly defensable, but you'd have to admit, so is mine . . .

As for your last point, I don't think you would see the Hillary people have the same degree of reservations - obviously, there will be some - about voting for Obama, if he wins, as his supporters will have about her, if she wins. It has to do with the different way the two of them have conducted themselves in the campaign.

I'd be happy to vote for Hillary had she stuck to the issues and won fair and square on the merits. Hell, Hillary and Obama agree on 90% of those issues. It's the "kitchen sink" strategy and the other Rovian tactics she has used against Obama that make it difficult to vote for Hillary in good conscience. I certainly respect your right to disagree, but that's where I come down.

[Bucky]

32. As below, I cite the Ali-Spinks fight of 1978

Ali lost to a less talented, less deserving fighter. One big factor was that in the warm ups, his sparring partners had been holding back. McCain & his less principled surrogates will not engage in kid glove fisticuffs in October. I think we need to see what can stagger our champ before he enters the ring, yes?

I should add to my post the observation that I'm not in the army, my only child is a girl, and I'm too old to be drafted. It hardly threatens me if President McCain keeps sending a bunch of 19 year olds over to get their legs blown off in Iraq. And yet I feel this need to stop it as soon as I can. If my choice is Clinton vs McCain, I really won't have any choice to make.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

34. I see your point, but applying your analogy to Hilllary's campaign tactics . . .

it would be like a sparring partner using brass knuckles to help train his more talented, more deserving fighter, but beating him up so badly, he loses the title fight. That's precisely my point.

[DinahMoeHum]

13. Both Clinton and Obama are a thousand times better than McCain

and would be a vast improvement over W.

Even with their warts and all.

:kick:

[Bucky]

21. I can top that....

Either of their warts would be a thousand times better than McCain

[yellerpup]

14. I hear you, Bucky.

I can't believe how so much excitement over turning W out of office has turned into dutiful resignation. Going negative doesn't work the way they want it to work. I'll show up and I will vote, but I won't have the heart or conviction to convince others in the meantime.

[Tresalisa]

15. Exactly how I feel!

Put into better words than I ever could have! :applause:

:kick: and Rec.

[TheDoorbellRang]

16. Bravo!

:applause:

K&R Lest we forget our raison d'etre

[underpants]

18. I'm going to have to let my rage dissipate a bit

but I will probably come around should my "GUY" not win the nomination

[Bucky]

22. How I feel too.

But the Republicans have screwed things up so much, we simply must win. If we can't win by 2012, we may end up being reduced to lifeboat ethics.

[Johnny Potpie]

19. If

Hillary gets the nod by hook or by crook, I promise you, I will not vote for her. I don't care if you say I'm not a true Democrat or what. Her actions as of late have been utterly despicable. If she gets the nod fair and square that may change things despite her disgusting campaign. But it's not looking likely.

[Bucky]

23. If Clinton's behavior bother you that much

I suggest sleeping through the fall campaign. The Republican campaign against Obama will be tons worse.

[damonm]

24. I expect that from the Rethugs...one Democrat to another

is WAY over the line. But I'll hold my nose & vote Clinton if need be.

[Bucky]

29. There, that's the spirit! One day at a time. PS, remember when Ali lost to Leon Spinks?

I don't know if you're old enough to remember this, but back in the 70s, a kid named Leon Spinks shocked the world and won the heavyweight title against the Champ. Do you know what Ali's trainers blamed his loss on? In getting ready for the big bout, his sparring partners were holding back.

Clinton's tactics aren't lovely, but they don't bother me either. She's not my cup of tea, but she's not exactly throwing heavyweight punches.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

25. . wrong place

[damonm]

20. MASSIVE K&R!!

I'm with you on this, even if Clinton continues her slash & burn and thus gets the nod, I will HAVE to vote for her - the alternative is too horrible to contemplate...

[msallied]

27. I used to feel that way

And I still want Obama as our nominee. But if he doesn't get it, and this party tears itself to shreds, I'm done. The system is sick and bordering on broken. I refuse to keep feeding into it and reinforcing its craven behaviors. I'm tired of laying down and having one election after another wrested from the jaws of victory by the "powers that be." Powers that seem to have infiltrated BOTH parties. The only way to combat it is to stop feeding it your votes.

I hope that it won't come to that. I keep open the hope that there is an individual out there who can operate as a symbol of change and hope. Obama may be flawed. He's not the Messiah. But he is a reminder that you don't have to be a polished cog of the Big Government Machine in order to accomplish greatness, and that's what I like about him.

It is my hope that I haven't cast my last vote for a Democrat.

[Bucky]

30. If you don't vote to keep McCain out of the White House, you're voting to kill my students

Are your hurt feelings over Clinton's campaign really worth the deaths of hundreds more American kids? That's the choice you're making. You might not be in the army, but that doesn't make it okay to let them get sent off to die in a vanity war.

[msallied]

31. And if you think for one second that Hillary

will end the Iraq War, you're fooling yourself. DLC and Neocons share the same foreign policy. She voted for this war and if it weren't for the goal of being politically expedient, she wouldn't for a second have said she wished she could take it back. You think that electing Hillary will be any different than the status quo. She's NOT. Study her background in depth. The DLC receives the same donations from corporations, military contractors, and oil companies that Bush Co does. She's old-school crooked to the hilt, and she'll take this country a little further down the same dark road it's already on, only she can fool progressive Democrats with a populist message and make them think she's on their side.

[Bucky]

33. Oh, you're one of those people.

My apologies. I didn't mean to waste your time.

[msallied]

35. Yeah, one of "those." What does that make you?

One of "those" idiotic straight-ticket voters who thinks a (D) next to someone's name equates some sort of infallible nobility? Give me a flipping break.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

28. Kicking to restore

sanity to this discussion. Nicely stated.