Bill Nelson of Fl. calls for new primary-wants DNC to pay.

[jenmito]

Breaking on CNN.

[mmonk]

1. I hate the DLC.

[jenmito]

He supports Hillary afterall.

:shrug:

[mmonk]

17. That's correct. And she is on the DLC Leadership Team.

[jenmito]

20. I know.

:)

[seabeyond]

21. who has never liked or worked with dean. embracing the very people that screwed the florida voters

as they.... and hillary and hillary supporters point the blame at dean and obama for florida votes not being counted...

i want this exposed too to the florida voters so they truely understadn who disfranchised them adn are playing with them

[MoonRiver]

48. And because Clinton would win Florida AGAIN, Obama and his minions

must MAKE SURE the will of Floridians is squelched. So much for democracy.

Obama better come out loud and clear and immediately in favor of DNC paying for recounts in FL and MI. Otherwise, he may win the battle but decisively lose the war. Meaning, Clinton supporters WILL NOT GET OVER IT. We'll be staying home in droves.

[mmonk]

72. That's because your candidate is above the rules she agreed to

Rules don't apply. Break them and it's Dean's fault.

[jenmito]

87. A win in FL won't net her enough (if any) delegates to catch up to Obama. This is about following

the rules they BOTH agreed to. Hillary's desperately trying to get delegates she agreed not to take.

[fadedrose]

101. He failed to support the ones who needed him

The voters needed him and the other elected officials to WATCH OUT FOR THEM and safeguard their vote; you know, it's part of preserving the constitution that makes voting so sacred. Rules are needed to prevent abuse of the voting system and are broken when abuse is taking place. The DNC has rules and the rules were agreed to before any voting took place this year.

Nelson and cronies should pay for the new primary. They were irresponsible, unethical or stupid or all the above and won't take responsibility. They let Floridians down.

The people wrongly put their trust in these "gangsters." We in Michigan trusted our crooks too.

[backscatter712]

124. Maybe the DLC should pay... n/t

[Birthmark]

2. I won't vote.

Not much point. If someone doesn't like the outcome, they'll just have a re-re-vote. Nelson proves once again that the voters don't matter.

[jenmito]

7. Both Hillary and Obama AGREED to the delegates not being seated.

It has nothing to do with not liking the outcome.

[Birthmark]

11. I don't care.

I voted. If it doesn't count, then why should I have ANY confidence in the next vote? There is simply no reason. It appears that the DNC is willing to do what not even the Repubs could bring themselves to do: Disenfranchise their voters.

[jenmito]

16. Sorry, but the candidates shouldn't have agreed to it. n/t

[Birthmark]

34. Listen closely:

I do NOT give a shit about the candidates. This has NOTHING to do with the candidates. It has to do with the rights of the Democratic voters in FL who have ALREADY cast their votes in the primary...in record numbers; more than doubling participation in 2004 and more than tripling the participation in 2000. Throwing out that vote or failing to seat the delegates is disenfranchising 1.75 MILLION FL Dems. Even the Republicans are more liberal than that. The DNC should be ashamed of itself.

Btw, what percentage of those Dems can we afford to lose in the GE and expect to carry FL?

[seabeyond]

58. candidates are american too, with their rights to and fairness too

and if their is not a fairness with our cnadidates then we may as well not have elections.... it is a whole. fairness cannot be given to one part and not another... or it doesnt equal fair.

[Birthmark]

66. So...

...in your view the "right" to campaign > the right to vote. Neat.

[seabeyond]

71. my view... follow the fuckin rules. go vote. have it counted. get on with life

this scenerio cause your representatives were screwing with you... and are still screwin with you.... go out and demand they pay for another election.

take off work

every 2.5 million you state voted stand in front of the building and demand a legitimate primary.
and fire their ass next election

put the blame where it belongs.

your right to vote so important, demand it. justly. not the easy way out leaving people out. half assed. working on slaping dean upside the head. winning a pissing contest. it is YOUR vote and they made a game of it

[Birthmark]

74. Already voted

Followed the rules that applied to me. Followed them to the letter, as a matter of fact. We had a legitimate primary, more than twice as many voted in 2008 than 2004. Or maybe 2004 wasn't legit? lol

And the blame belongs SQUARELY on the DNC. They were only forced to act. They weren't forced to act in the unfair, unAmerican way they did.

[Independent-Voter]

88. Bitch to your state representatives. You're making a fucking fool of yourself here

[seabeyond]

93. i could not believe this happened when studying it yesterday. i couldnt believe the argument

from hillary supporters and that they really believed what they were saying. hubby has been watching news. i asked if he knew about it and what the hillary supporters wanted. he laughs.... laughs, ..... mocking laughter

yes he knew

anyone but a hillary suporter hearing about this is amazed at the logic they are using. or lack of logic. and it is always, exactly the same words.....as another supporter

[Birthmark]

96. You're right, of course

Punishing those who did nothing wrong is the underlying principle of our system of government, right? :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

100. gong after those that took away your vote cause they are playing a game.

that would be the logical. but not what hillary supporters do. they do the nonlogical

[Birthmark]

103. I am. Those people are the DNC.

[seabeyond]

108. because you are a dlc supporter? ergo dont mind they took your vote away from you

only because dnc, the one you dont like, didnt let you have your way?

[Birthmark]

110. The DNC made the call. Sorry.

Your blathering about the DLC and rove and all that other nonsense is simply to try to obscure that fact. The DNC decided SOLELY what the consequences should be.

[seabeyond]

112. dnc said what would happen. dlc called em on it. your vote was so unimportant to dlc.

dlc doesnt give a shit about you

twice dnc has tried to resolve and your dlc said fuck the voters to dnc.

[Birthmark]

115. Don't care about the DLC...

...as far as disenfranchisement is concerned. The DNC disenfranchised me.

Now, the fact that State Party leaders broke the rules is a separate issue. I will support any *reasonable* response of the DNC. But disenfranchising 1.75 MILLION voters, over 99.5% of whom did nothing wrong, is unfair and out of all proportion to the violation.

[seabeyond]

118. no dnc didnt. factually you are wrong. that simple. regardless,

i hope there is some way to resolve where it is fair to all and a real primary instead of a game. adn your vote and everyone elses vote is counted.

i am done with your posts

[Birthmark]

121. Oh, gosh. You're baseless assertion has convinced me...

...NOT.

I would miss you more if you had actually posted something remotely factual. But, bye. :)

[PassingFair]

133. The DNC *IS* the party....

You claim to have voted in a legitimate primary in Florida.

That is the farthest thing from the truth.

The primary ran in VIOLATION of the rules of THE PARTY.

It was an ILLEGITIMATE primary.

Get it?

[Birthmark]

136. So what?

That isn't my choice. It was indeed a legitimate primary. The turnout was great. All the candidates were on the ballot. And it was held on the day required by FL State Law. The voters had NO choice BUT to vote in that primary. Appealing to the rules of the DNC to justify disenfranchisement is just wrong on every level.

I'll say it again: The DNC surely is right to impose some sanctions on the State Party --which broke the rules. But it is wrong to disenfranchise the record number of Democratic voters who voted in good faith on the appointed day.

[PassingFair]

140. No one is being "disenfranchised" here, BM...

We are picking a PARTY CANDIDATE.

If you feel THIS strongly, I (and I can't BELIEVE
I'm typing this) suggest you vote for John McCain
in the

GENERAL ELECTION.

Only HALF of their delegates are
from "disenfranchised" votes, so
there's THAT!

Selecting which candidate the PARTY runs is
a function of the PARTY.
You start making up the rules as you go along,
and BREAKING them to suit ONE candidate over
another, and your SUNK.

Why don't you REALLY SHOW US and vote for NADER?

[Birthmark]

142. Thanks for the advice.

However, you accuse ME of breaking a rule. Please explain what rule *I* broke. The correct answer is "NONE."

[PassingFair]

143. Not accusing YOU.

Running the Primaries before Feb 5 was breaking the rules.

Seating the delegates would be breaking the rules.

[Birthmark]

145. If I'm not personally breaking the rules...

...why should it be held against me personally? Why should my representation be taken under such circumstances? It doesn't make sense. Even the Repubs only took half the delegates.

[PassingFair]

147. Then vote for McCain. n/t

[Birthmark]

95. Yeah, only a fool would object to being disenfranchised.

Particularly for being disenfranchised for the actions of others...and when other avenues were open to the DNC. The order is: Think first, then post.

[mmonk]

75. Listen carefully.

Who's fault is this? The DNC's? No. Blame the state party and the republican party who together successfully screwed the voters of Florida.

[seabeyond]

84. illary suporter playing fuckin game the same as repugs 2004. bat head on wall trying to show reason

and they would refuse.

[Birthmark]

90. I didn't get that.

Could you whine it again...a little louder?

[Birthmark]

85. WRONGO!!

The State Party broke the rules, true. However, the choice of penalty was SOLELY the DNC's. They chose to disenfranchise the weakest people --who had nothing to do with the infraction and who broke no rules. Claiming that it was the State Party who disenfranchised us is simply wrong and an attempt to let the DNC off for its behavior.

[PassingFair]

135. The State Party knew the penalty beforehand. This isn't some SENTENCE...

handed down afterward, you know.

[Birthmark]

138. Again, so what?

No one is saying that the State Party is blameless or that the DNC shouldn't take action. But justice is meted out to the guilty. The average Democratic voter in Florida is guilty of NOTHING. The DNC overreacted. All they need do is correct themselves.

Hell, if they cut the number of delegates in half, as the Repubs did, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

[PassingFair]

139. The DNC is being MORE THAN FAIR in GIVING you another vote.

You should be re-calling your legislators.

[Birthmark]

141. Okay.

So you believe that I should be disenfranchised for the actions of others, is that correct?

[PassingFair]

131. YOU listen closely:

The DNC has NOTHING to be ashamed of.

They were ROGUE primaries,
held outside the rules of
the party.


The estimate I heard to conduct a caucus in
Michigan was ONE million. I believe that
the DNC could pony up half and FINE the MDP
and the state the other half.

THAT would be MORE than fair.

Wonder why it is costing so much in Florida?

Do they have to buy the materials from Neil Bush?

[Birthmark]

132. Yeah, disenfranchising people...

...who've done nothing wrong isn't shameful. :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

61. this argument in so in line with others i have heard on this issue. talking points. rove

2004 campaign coming back to me.... again

[Birthmark]

69. Poor dear!

You have no real counter-argument, and so, resort to slimy innuendo. Must be tough: Being against voters (who did nothing wrong) AND having to resort to slime. I feel for ya! :)

[seabeyond]

86. hillary/rove/bushco..supporters...same as the republican game last 8 yrs. argue the same

behave the same. are you all getting talking points.

[Birthmark]

91. Nice talking point.

I guess it saves you no end of thinking and defending your positions. lol

[seabeyond]

28. because... you were told the vote wouldnt count then, and told it would count now

geeez. you are told it wont count. you vote and are pissed caue it doesnt count. so you refuse to vote when they tell you it will count..... cause why? afraid it really will count and you wont like the results? such logic

[Birthmark]

42. Again, I don't care

We had ONE opportunity to vote. That was set by the State Legislature. We voted. Holding the average voter responsible for the Party Leaders' actions is unfair, unDemocratic, and unAmerican. Anyone who supports the DNC in its overreaction has twisted priorities or no sense of proportion, imo.

[seabeyond]

54. your behavior is worse than a child having a tantrum and reason is more beyond than any 2 yr old.

this is just pathetic. really you are saying, we cheated, we had unfair advantage, we will deny other floridians the right to their vote and we want our way. i just cannot believe so many adults are reducing themselves to your position.

[Birthmark]

59. Yeah, I'm pretty adamant...

...about my right to vote. I understand that some people don't care about that...and I understand why.

Who is we? What specifically did my wife and I do wrong? The correct answer is NOTHING. So depriving us of our right is completely wrong and out of proportion. It was also completely unnecessary. Even the Republicans know that much.

[seabeyond]

64. you cant have an election when people dont think it counts, and say SURPRISE... it counts

why is this a tough one for you. people did not go and vote. you say it counts. they say, ..... what about me

the candidates dont campaign they say wtf.....

yes, you are in a fucked up situation. the nation feels sorry for your fucked up situation. the whole nation was pissed with your fucked up situation in 2000. all of us had to suffer the repercussion.

fix your state.

[Birthmark]

73. You are making things up.

Turnout for the Democratic Primary was MORE THAN DOUBLE the turnout in 2004. The claim that people stayed home is baseless.

And if it's all the same to you, I think I'll fix the DNC first. Show 'em what their ham-fisted, disproportionate, and unDemocratic tactics will earn them. That's the bigger issue at the moment.

But when I'm done with that, I expect I'll have time to deal with FDP. One thing at a time. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[seabeyond]

76. again, ignore facts of those that didnt vote. pretend it cannot be. and lose them.too great a weight

to carry. they arent important. but yours is.

why dont we just habd the votes to hillary. a vote isnt even necessary. yawl just want the votes for hillary and actually winning them, earning them isnt necessary. so little pride.

[Birthmark]

81. You are pretending that people stayed home.

That is completely baseless. The FACT is that participation in 2008 more than doubled the participation in 2004. So, show me evidence that people stayed home. REAL evidence that can be verified. It's not in the numbers.

[seabeyond]

89. common sense, logic. but screw them right. your right overrides theirs. your right overrides

a candidates. you right rules.....

[Birthmark]

99. Yes, the right to vote

...overrides a candidates right to campaign. You've gotten that much.

I'm still waiting for verifiable evidence that people stayed home.

[seabeyond]

106. purposely you interpret a post to be woe is you, why pickin on me. clearly, posters are not saying

what you are accusing them of. it is another way of lying. being dishonest. not ethic.

a game

the same game dlc played on florida voters to get dnc

[Birthmark]

109. Do you have an example?

You seem to be making things up at furious rate! Try substantiating what you say. It'll be a refreshing change.

[movonne]

31. Will you grow up and read....It was not the DNC that caused the

trouble...it was the florida dems and the repugs of florida...

[Birthmark]

44. Yeah, therefore,

...the DNC decides to strip the VOTERS of their rights. How Democratic. Not. Even the Repubs couldn't bring themselves to do that.

[movonne]

82. As I said before grow up and stop whining about this subject.go

out and vote in the election..no one will stop you from voting in the election....

[Birthmark]

102. LOL

Yeah, grow up and take disenfranchisement like a man, eh? Disenfranchisement for the actions of others, eh?

No, thanks. You realize that you are endorsing disenfranchisement for individuals that have done NOTHING wrong, don't you?

[movonne]

105. A man wouldn't cry like a baby about having his toy taken away..boo hoo

[Birthmark]

111. Gosh, I must be some sort of WOMAN or something

I'm not, but I wouldn't be ashamed to be a woman. I like women and don't consider them inferior at all.

You're damned right I'm gonna scream at the top of my lungs when disenfranchised. I'd do it if it was YOU who were being disenfranchised, too. I happen to think that it's important.

[JTFrog]

37. Sorry but you KNEW AHEAD of time that it wouldn't count. It isn't like they snuck

that in there later. Obviously you don't care about those disenfranchised because they didn't bother voting because their own party told them it wouldn't count.

It somehow seems like disenfranchisement will be called only for those who don't like what the results will be if everyone gets to play.

[Birthmark]

46. You have absolutely no evidence...

...that people stayed home. The facts indicate the exact opposite.

Another fact is that Floridians HAVE to vote when the State Legislature decides, not the DNC. We voted. Count the votes. Even the Republicans managed to half-way count the votes. The DNC should be ashamed of its treatment of Florida Democrats.

[seabeyond]

57. are you a hillary operative. does she have people on these sites, with talking points

and repeating the same things over and over. i have already run across another poster with almost word for word the same pathitic argument you use now. and since it is so unbelievably bad, i have got to believe it is written for all to remember how to stay consistent.

this was another tactic rove had and hillary has been using one after the other of rove campaigning.

[Birthmark]

63. The right to vote is pathetic?

That says much about your mind-set.

So does the fact that you invoke Hillary. It's all politics for you. For some of us, the issue is larger: The right to have one's vote count. And to a lesser extent, punishing people who have done nothing wrong. If you can't understand that, might I suggest you check out some of the other threads?

[seabeyond]

68. right to vote is pathetic?.... right, like anyone could get that from anything anyone said

do you want to be taken seriously? or are you seriously just throwing out shit.

[Birthmark]

78. Do you ever make a serious argument?

You seem wholly unable to discuss anything rationally. It's fairly simple. Floridian Democrats voted in record numbers. Depriving them of their delegates for actions that they didn't commit is manifestly unfair. Most people learn that at around age eight or so.

[JTFrog]

67. Actually Florida should be ashamed of it's elected officials who

laughed when they made the decision 115-1 to move the election date KNOWING full well what the penalties would be to their constituents. Your anger and disappointment are seriously misdirected.

Now why the hell are you so afraid of a re-vote to make sure everyone follows the rules and gets a chance to vote? Why would you cling so desperately to data taken from a tainted vote process? It's very telling to see some of the reactions to this situation.

*edit - spelling

[seabeyond]

83. not a single hillary supporter will blame those responsible. those responsible are hillary people,

her supprters cannot blame them. they are her, her are they. so.... they dean. they dont like him, people chose him. just another stunt to get rid of him. he didnt budge. why the poeple like him. now it is his fault that he didnt let them break the rules

that is a hillary supporter.

i suppose that is why bush gets to break rules all over the place

and cops gets to break rules all over the place

and our military

and att

but by gosh, i spit on the street, i am beaten, tasered stripped search and gitmo

[Birthmark]

107. I blame them for their actions.

But that did NOT disenfranchise me. The DNC did that all by itself. They obviously had to take some action. They decided to take it out on the average voters of FL, despite the fact that those voters broke no rules.

Making believe that the DNC was forced to disenfranchise people like my wife and I is just dishonest or a fundamental misunderstanding.

[JTFrog]

114. If you hire a shitty contractor to do a job and they fail at that job then they are the ones

responsible for any penalties that you may incur because of it, not the agency that assigns the penalty. It's the same damn principle. The rules were in place and they were broken. You are pissed off at the agency that enforced the rules instead of the culprits who broke the rules. They didn't make the rules up AFTER the fact, those rules were already in place. And one candidate in particular seems to have extreme issues with rules that have long been in place only after it turns out that those rules didn't work out in her favor.

[Birthmark]

117. No, it's not the same at all.

If I hire a shitty contractor and they fail at the job, the death penalty would NOT be the appropriate punishment. Yet, the DP is what the DNC has dealt to the voters of FL. They have executed our votes for the rule breaking of others.

You also leave out the fact that relatively few of the 1.75 million voters hired anyone to do anything. The vast majority simply fill out "Democrat" on their voter registration card and, perhaps, from time to time donate money.

[JTFrog]

120. You equate the DNC enforcing the rules of the party to being given the Death Sentence. I'm done

listening to you now.

[Birthmark]

123. It' s not the DP

Tell me, what further can one do to a voter BEYOND not counting their vote? It is the DP, for the average voter. You don't like that, but that's the way it is.

And what's worse, is that it's the DP for something the voter didn't do and NO control over.

[Oilwellian]

60. Shouldn't your argument be with your STATE party leaders?

Apparently it is the Dem leadership in Florida that introduced the Bill that would change the date of the primary and break DNC rules. Now why do you suppose your state leaders would disenfranchise you like that?

[Birthmark]

113. Not on disenfranchisement, no.

That was the SOLE discretion of the DNC.

Now, there is a separate issue: The State Party broke the rules. It's obvious that the DNC has to do *something.* I'll support any *reasonable* action that the DNC takes. Disenfranchising the average voter is not reasonable. It is punishing the innocent and should be repugnant to all Democrats.

[JTFrog]

116. Reasonable has been offered. Re-vote. You did not support that and in fact argued against it.

You are contradicting yourself now.

[Birthmark]

119. Re-vote is still disenfranchisement

It negates the vote I've already cast.

But that doesn't matter, anyway, since the Repub State Legislature will NOT allow a re-vote.

[JTFrog]

122. You lost me at Death Sentence bud. Have at it. n/t

[Birthmark]

125. Yes, that's a convenient excuse

It saves you from having to discuss proportionality. But, fly free, little one! :)

[JTFrog]

126. Dude, you just made it obvious that you have no clue what proportional discussion is. I won't

waste my time any further.

[Birthmark]

129. Yes, I read your excuse the first time.

I get it. You don't want to try to defend the disproportionality of the DNC's response. I don't blame you. It is morally and logically indefensible.

[John Q. Citizen]

97. The Repos are only seating half their delegates, or didn't they report that in FL?

I suggest you sit this one out.

Boycott it and stamp your foot.

The fewer Hill voters the better, is what I say.

But the DNC isn't going to pay because your FL party leaders couldn't follow the rules they agreed to.

Rule breaking ain't allowed, even for Hill.

[Birthmark]

130. That is correct.

Hard as it is to believe, the Repubs acted more justly to the average voter than the Democratic Party did.

There will be no re-vote.

[LittleClarkie]

50. First you're all upset about your vote not counting, now you will not vote

Brilliant.

[Birthmark]

55. I guess you only read the parts you like, eh?

Must provide no end of comfort.

It really doesn't matter, though. There will be no "re-vote" in Florida. The Repub State Legislature will NEVER sign on for that. No gain for them.

[ieoeja]

79. They don't have to sign on to it.

The government can not tell the parties what they can or can not do. If they could then the Republics in the State Legislature would send a bunch of Republic delegates to represent Florida at the Democratic National Convention.

If you want to see what government control of political parties looks like just take a peek at China.

[Birthmark]

128. Uh-huh

That's a nice story, but then why did the State Legislature vote on the Primary Day to begin with?

OOOPS! lol

[ieoeja]

148. In this instance the State is basically a charity agency.

They are an agency that provides a free primary to all interested political parties. Does a political party have to participate? No. Of course not. They can hold their own primary, a caucus, or even nothing at all.

I believe Ross Perot's Reform Party nominated the presidential candidate at a national convention where all comers were welcome to participate. I *know* the Republican Party did this in Chicago in 1860.

Political parties in the United States are not gov't entities. They can set up any rules they want. The Florida Democratic Party could choose delegates based on horseshoe pitching contests. If the National Democratic Party approved this plan, there is NOTHING the State of Florida could do to prevent it. The State could help by providing shoes, pitches and referees. But again, the Party could accept or reject that assistance.

[Oilwellian]

65. LOL

Touche!

[HooptieWagon]

3. Breaking, burgler sues homeowner for broken window injury

[HCE SuiGeneris]

4. He disenfranchises the voters and wants the DNC to pay.

What a load of BS.

[Hawkeye-X]

5. Uh-uh. Florida fucked up. They have to pay for it, not DNC.

sorry, Nelson, looks like you lose again.

No delegates for you this year, Nelsey-poo.

Be prepared to get lynched by the Floridians for your fuckup. Dean offered to help pay for a caucus, you said no.

Hawkeye-X

[jenmito]

9. Yup. n/t

[backscatter712]

137. This is it. Why should the DNC pay because Fla. broke the rules?

[Renew Deal]

6. I thought he said "no revote"

:shrug:

[jenmito]

8. He just said "vote." I guess because Dean made it clear that they can't go back on the rules

set earlier.

[DJ13]

23. I thought he said "no revote"

That was the early DLC spin, back when they thought they could ramrod the original pro-Hillary results through.

Then he wanted caucuses, but Obama started winning almost evey caucus.

So the new tack seems to be another primary, so long as they get one for free.

Screw him, screw the DLC, screw the Clinton campaign.

Enough of this, as Ohio and Texas proved it wont change the delegate counts enough to be worth the cost and effort.

[Birthmark]

49. There will be no re-vote

There is no way the Repub State Legislature is gonna let that fly.

[Lucinda]

10. Both side have said they cant afford to pay for them...I wonder if this is a backdoor way

to get them seated as is.
Both sides are making public cases how they don't have the moola, but still need to have a solution. Just makes me wonder...

[jenmito]

13. It was reported that they could have a "mail-in" vote that would only cost $4 million.

I don't see that being a bad idea.

[Lucinda]

19. Me either. Seems like a small enough sum to be feasible. And lets everyone vote.

:thumbsup:

[jenmito]

24. See? We CAN agree on some things.

:)

[Lucinda]

27. LOL.

:hi:

[seabeyond]

35. and i am agreeing with both of you. n/t

[Zachstar]

32. Not a bad idea. Except for the fact that he who controls the mail can "Edit" results.

Sorry but no. It needs to be more public. A caucus sounds much better simply because it is cheaper than a primary and it is MUCH more open so a candidate cannot try to cheat effectively.

[seabeyond]

38. and it is florida. they do early voing dont they with ballots, or they did in 2000

at least you would have it on paper

[bling bling]

80. Agreed. Florida politics are shady. Or at least it seems that way.

I wouldn't trust a mail in vote. I don't trust the Democrats in Florida much more than the Republicans, actually. Officials, that is, not the voters.

[movonne]

43. I do feel it is a bad idea...too bad so sorry .. this was decided a long

time ago...

[madfloridian]

12. Dean say DNC won't pay...state has to do it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4927990&mesg_id=4927990

How many of you trust the Florida elections system?

[samdogmom]

14. DNC won't pay... Howard Dean already said they need the money for the election.

Maybe Hillary can get the DLC to pay!

[Kittycat]

15. Why would the DNC have to pay? They didn't break the rules?

Fuck them. That money is needed for other dems running for office. Like in IL14 where we have to essentially elect, then re-elect our person that is trying to win hastert's old seat. We have a special primary this saturday, and the milk nazi spent somewhere around $1M running against him. That money will be crucial to ensure that when this fall rolls around, foster retains or gains that seat, depending on Saturday's outcome.

[jenmito]

18. I agree. And Repub. Charlie Crist agrees. That's not a good sign.

[madfloridian]

22. If you can't win the first time...try try again.

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

41. you are florida. how do you think it should be resolved. n/t

[madfloridian]

51. It was resolved when Florida Dems voted 115 to 1

They made their decision.

Hillary is trying another way to win, and I hope Obama beats her butt.

He might this time. Some people have been paying attention.

[seabeyond]

98. i am not as hard ass, though parenting yours is the better way. lol

i feel like it is dealing with children. i feel like dean is dealing with children, dlc. challenge. not wanting punishment. then pissed at the person that punished, not owning behavior.

got it.

[Zachstar]

25. You cannot have your cake and eat it too...

If you want a guranteed primary then you need to pay for it.

If the DNC pays for it I think it is their decision to make it a primary or a Caucus.

If I remember right a primary costs FAR more than a caucus.

[madfloridian]

26. The DNC won't pay. Dean announced that today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4927990&mesg_id=4927990

[thoughtcrime1984]

33. Good. He needs to stand his ground

The tab needs to be paid by the two states for the re-vote. The voters absolutely should take out their anger on the fools who authorized the date move to begin with.

[Zachstar]

Then this has ended...

The best that can agreed to now is a 50/50 cut.

Sorry but this is getting out of hand. If they cheated yet will not pay then oh well!

Tho I really think that it would benefit Dean if he settled for paying for a caucus.

[melody]

29. DLC is behind it. It figures n/t

[seabeyond]

47. dlc using florida voters to get the dnc. dnc didnt budge. dlc blames dnc for not giving them their

way... as the florida voter continues to be screwed.

now.... who is a part of dlc.... thinkin thinkin

[melody]

146. bingo n/t

[jenmito]

30. And Charlie Crist agrees with Hillary supporter Grandholm from MI.

Surprise surprise. They both want Hillary to win/to keep the race going.

[bunnies]

36. Fuck that.

It'll never happen. They made their bed.

[msallied]

40. Damn straight. They can lie in it. Fuckin cry babies.

[madfloridian]

39. Don't forget the lawsuit against Dean. Will be heard on March 17

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1871

I hope Obama beats the hell out of Hillary this time. I have had it up to here with her trying to win one way or the other.

[andym]

45. It's in the interest of the party for a do-over-- internet fund raising for revote?

The initial vote will be just a beauty contest. Since FL violated the DNC rules that is as it should be. However, a second vote does not violate party rules and is acceptable to Dr Dean and to Nelson and apparently other Floridians. The only problem is money. Perhaps there should be an internet fund-raising for the revote. Howard Dean can give Florida some tips on how to do it.

Not having the revote means:
1) Floridians will feel they are not represented at the convention
2) Messy fight to try to seat delegates

Either 1 or 2 are not in the best interests of the party.

Having a revote, means that there will be less argument about important votes not being counted for Clinton, which will help make the convention less problematic. Whoever wins, wins.

[madfloridian]

52. It is in the interest of Hillary

.

[andym]

56. It's a no-brainer for Hillary, but it's also in the interests of the party.

It's a no-brainer for Hillary (because of demographics), but it's also in the interests of the party.

However, it may also be in the best interests of Obama. If he wins, or even loses by less than 10%, he'll maintain his strong delegate lead and also take the Florida seating argument off the table. The less fear, uncertainty and doubt, the stronger the argument can be made for whomever has the most pledged delegates going into the convention should be the nominee.

[madfloridian]

62. It is a way to allow her to win. She could not win the first time...

there is no way she can reach the delegates.

I hope Obama people turn out big.

[andym]

77. I think you underestimate Obama

I think he will do quite well in Florida. It will also give him another chance to hone his message to reach older voters.
It will help him immensely in the GE if he can cut into the little-experience theme in the primaries. I think he can-- just needs to emphasize his experience more as being analogous to Lincoln's (without perhaps being so blatant as do it himself).

Hope can beat fear, but it has to acknowledge the specific fears head-on. Right now we have two: economy and to a lesser extent but lurking in the background, terrorism. Obama just needs to emphasize common sense and a fresh approach grounded in 12 years of experience as an elected politician. He should use something like this: "Enough experience and common sense to get the important jobs done, not so much "experience" that you don't know what jobs are really important."

[madfloridian]

144. Oh, I think he can take FL this time around.

But it was still an attempt to help Hillary. I am glad Dean came out fighting this morning...he is getting tired of being shoved around by FL and MI. I put the videos up in the video forum.

[IsItJustMe]

53. Cold day in hell. That ain't gonna happen.

[truebrit71]

70. Fuck you Bill. You had your chance and you blew it.

Now go play some more shuffle board and STFU!!!

[Danger Mouse]

92. Good one, Nelson

:rofl:
didn't know you were a comedian.

[Ichingcarpenter]

94. Well, If Bill 'the Dino' Nelson says it then

He can reach around and kiss his own
pro Alito nomination vote,
pro Iraqi war vote,
pro telecom immunity vote,
pro torture vote,
pro Arctic oil drilling vote,
slimy ass.

[Barack_America]

104. I'd like the DNC to pay my rent.

If Florida expects the DNC to pay for their mistakes, maybe I've got a shot!

[LiberalAndProud]

127. Does the DNC pay for state primaries?

[Romulox]

134. Democrats are better at snatching defeat from the Jaws of Victory than anyone

2000 election
2004 election
2008 --ain't looking good.