Cluster Bomb Clinton

[grassfed]

Cluster bombs and landmines are particularly terrifying weapons that wreak havoc on communities trying to recover from war. They are fatal impediments to reconstruction and rehabilitation of agricultural land; they destroy valuable livestock; they disable otherwise productive members of society; they maim or kill children trying to salvage them for scrap metal.

Over 150 nations have signed the 1997 Mine Ban Treaty. In the autumn of 2006, there was a chance to take a step in the right direction: Senate Amendment No. 4882, an amendment to a Pentagon appropriations bill that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas. Amendment No. 4882 was an easy one to vote against: Who'd want to risk accusation of "tying the hands of the Pentagon" during a never-ending, global War on Terror? As is so often the case, there was no political cost to doing the wrong thing. And there was no political reward for doing the right thing.

But Senator Obama did the right thing.

Senator Obama of Illinois voted IN FAVOR of the ban.

Senator Clinton of New York voted AGAINST the ban.

Analysts say Clinton did not want to risk appearing "soft on terror," as it would have harmed her electability. Amendment Rejected.

http://www.stopclustermunitions.org/

[hedgehog]

1. OMG - a post attacking Clinton on her political stand! Everyone knows

that Clinton can only be attacked with sexist remarks, not points of fact!

[hueyshort]

71. The Obama Smear Machine

is going top speed now.

This is the biggest bullshit post yet.
Clinton has to come down hard on this stuff.

[txaslftist]

76. So you're saying she didn't vote against the cluster bomb ban?

Or are you just saying the truth hurts, and this must be a "smear".

By the way, it's your darling who has said four times in the last week that McCain is better qualified to be Commander in Chief than Obama.

If Obama wins the nomination, I assume you'll go post at Free Republic?

[redqueen]

79. How is this a bullshit post, exactly?

:wtf:

[thoughtcrime1984]

104. Your bullshit candidate made mudslinging a fine art form!

Take it and like it!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. This is so important.

Of all the things she's done, this has to be the most indefensible.

[Dems Will Win]

42. How about her refusing to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge as OBAMA DID?

Another Wimpocratic move on Clinton's part. In 2006, she reserved the right to torture in the case of "something imminent".

[niceypoo]

70. Obama supported Israels invasion of Lebanon and subsequent use of cluster munitions on civilians

More cluster weapons were dropped than all of the Iraq war...

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/24/isrlpa13798.htm">Israeli Cluster Munitions Hit Civilians in Lebanon

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3305802,00.html">UN: Israel cluster bomb use in Lebanon ‘outrageous’

http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/ObamaIsrael.htm">Obama supported Israels brutal invasion of Lebanon

SO, Obama is against them but cheers their use against civilians when it scores political points?

[txaslftist]

77. Everybody supported that invasion. It was AIPAC mandated.

[jgraz]

3. Oh, it's a nickname

I thought it was a request.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. It's a bad choice of words.

[jakem]

62. lol!

[grassfed]

95. it's not meant as a threat

just alliterative word play, a joke, like Bomb Bomb McCain

but the parents of amputee children aren't laughing

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/24/isrlpa13798.htm

[parasim]

5. How anyone could condone using clusterbombs or landmines is way beyond me...

I mean, when the battlefields of war increasingly invade city streets, soccer stadiums and backyards, how can anyone not see the devastation these barbaric weapons cause?

[HarveyBrooks]

98. I don't know...

I also dont know how anyone could vote "present" on a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds (a bill that passed 52-1).

Or how anyone couldn't vote for a bill that prohibited strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares.

Or how anyone could be the only member of the legislature to not support a bill that protected the privacy of sex-abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed.

Or how anyone couldn't figure out if they were for or against a bill which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses (yep - "present").

Or why anyone would vote "present" on two bills that would have prohibited "partial birth" abortion rather than just yes or no.

Or how the same person could have also said:
"You must vote yes or no on whatever bill comes up, with the knowledge that it's unlikely to be a compromise that either you or your supporters consider fair and or just." -Audacity of Hope (page 130)

[parasim]

110. Yeah, I have issues with many of Obama's votes as well.

Since the candidates that I really wanted in the white house aren't deemed worthy of consideration by the Democratic party, such as Kucinich or Gravel, it looks like we're stuck with more typical politicians to choose from. I do plan to vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever it is, because, God forbid we have another Republican admin. However, that doesn't mean I will agree with everything they ever did.

I do know that I am vehemently against the use of cluster bombs and landmines.

As to the votes you cited, I admit I haven't done my research on those, but will do so. Your descriptions of them here are not very clear (no offense). Maybe you can help me out. Do you perhaps have links to those particular bills? Even just the Bill number would help. Thanks.

And no, I don't fully understand the concept of voting "present" on an issue. So, yeah, I think I can see your point there. I need to better understand Obama's explanations for these. More research for me. Thanks again for prompting me to become more informed about the candidate that I currently support.

None-the-less, anyone who would support the use of barbaric weapons against civilians (not to mention vote to authorize an illegal, barbaric war) simply for political purposes is beyond the pale. In my opinion, of course. But, in fairness, I intend to research that as well, to see if I can determine that there is possibly a sane reason she may have to support such a measure.

[HarveyBrooks]

113. Sure

SB 759, a bill that required mandatory adult prosecution for firing a gun on or near school grounds

SB 609, a bill prohibiting strip clubs and other adult establishments from being within 1,000 feet of schools, churches, and daycares

HB 854 that protected the privacy of sex-abuse victims by allowing petitions to have the trial records sealed

SB 71, which lowered the first offense of carrying a concealed weapon from a felony to a misdemeanor and raised the penalty of subsequent offenses

Parental notification abortion bills (HB 1900 and SB 562)


I'll be voting for the Dem nominee too. I'm just sick of all the Hillary hate/Obama worship.
I don't think Obama wants strip clubs next to schools anymore than I think Hillary wants people blown up by cluster bombs. Politicians sometimes do things for purely political reasons - and Obama is just as much a politician as Hillary is.

Thanks for taking the time to do some research instead of just having a kneejerk reaction like some folks here.

[SIMPLYB1980]

6. Bombing Obama

The man that will bring you war with Pakistan.

[TwilightGardener]

10. LOL! The man who will take out terrorists. Hillary wants to take out innocent civilians.

[aquarius dawning]

19. Hillary wants to protect our military forces. Obama wants to hamstring them. Is anyone surprised?

[TwilightGardener]

21. "Protect" our military? Just how has she done that? With her IWR vote, perhaps?

[cali]

22. Bullshit. This had nothing to do with protecting our troops

how can you support this? Why not just say you think she made a mistake on this vote?

I'll tell you one thing: It's a good guess that this is one reason that Leahy endorsed Obama over Clinton.

[karynnj]

25. Cluster bombs are indefensible

(comment edited because I thought this was on the Feinstein amendment - where Obama voted right - and Clinton wrong.

[roguevalley]

30. cluster bombs that also kill and mutilate the innocent are indefensible

bush likes them too. Enough said?

[Zachstar]

116. Not for Clinton Supporters it seems.

They can't spin this however.

[tekisui]

31. Cluster bombs can lie unexploded for years.

Blowing up, killing and maiming innocent children and farmers.

[bicentennial_baby]

47. you are fucking defending cluster bombs?!

Unreal. Ignore activated.

[krkaufman]

51. Dude, you forgot the quotes.

George Bush wouldn't like you using his material without attribution. That's slander you can Xerox.

[L0oniX]

64. uhm ...repuke talking point? n/t

[Zachstar]

66. Highest RPM Spin I have ever seen. That is 100 percent BULL aquarius dawning!

The spin machine is going so fast that it is self destructing.

Voting for the use of cluster bombs does NOTHING to protect the forces and puts them at EXTREME risk of after action attacks from people who have lost so much to these fucked up weapons being used.

Oh BTW just asking.. Do you know ANYTHING about the different types of cluster bombs in the inventory? Do you realize there are types that not only deploy bombs that can act like mines later.. But have a ring of fuel that ignites spreading an intense area of heat that can melt metal?

You cant hide this vote. You cant hide her IWR vote.

[Zachstar]

83. No Clinton supporters want to deny this?

Note the term for cluster bomb is called CBU...

Have a little look at the different make and models of them Clinton Supporters... Go do some research!

Have a look at the mixed charge versions that use partial fuel air explosives to decimate everything in the area. Then bomblets to bust through anything else. That is if the versions using a fire ring did not make you sick when you think what they can be used for by a terrible leader.

[New Dawn]

106. That is the same propaganda that Bush and McCain would say.

And I'm not surprised at all to see a Clintonite saying it.

[Zachstar]

108. Agreed!

It is disgusting and 100 percent wrong.

Anyone who takes a look at Cluster bombs will know why they do not need to be deployed anywhere near innocent people.

[damonm]

11. Buy a clue.

Obama's said he would attack an area in Pakistan IF there is actionable intelligence as to OBL's presence there AND the Pakistani government failed to act on it.

far cry from "war with Pakistan". Do your research before trumpeting your ignorance.

[RaleighNCDUer]

86. And it is, let's not forget, our current policy.

When we blew up the guy who organized the Cole bombing, he was in Yemen. We aren't at war with Yemen. We made appropriate apologies for stepping on Yemen's toes, and that ended it. Just as a targeted strike against OBL in Pakistan would be.

[L0oniX]

65. So your saying that if O-Sama is in Pakistan we shouldn't bomb him? n/t

[pbca]

7. While we are on the subject

And while HRC is counting as HER experience things her husband did while in office, could someone ask her about that Sudanese asprin factory. The US has - since that time

1) Refused to visit the site so that it can be varified that it was not making chemical weapons: though the invitation has been open for a decade.
2) Refused to apologize for the bombing

and

3) Refused to offer compensation

but according to some (including Chomsky) it was not only not making chemical weapons but it was a primary source in Sudan of basic medicines and vacinnes. It's loss has resulted in tens of thousands of preventable deaths and, arguably, contributed to further destabilization and the current situation in Darfur.

If all of the above is true then (Bill) Clinton is a war criminal as well. This was something that happened after Bill got a 3 A.M. phone call and someone should ask if Hillary would like partial credit.

[msallied]

9. I think I just got sick...

The more I learn about Hillary, the less I like Bill. And to think I once defended these sickos.

[TwilightGardener]

12. I remember that. That's the sort of "experience" Hillary wants to claim? Let her own it.

[Zachstar]

92. She will only "own" it if Obama mentions this to the press every day. along with the rest of us.

Contact the media. Say we want the Tax reports say we want her to be asked on her Cluster Bomb vote.. etc..

Remember that Clinton tricked Ohio with her NAFTA bullcrap. We need to prevent her from going for round two in upcoming states!

[eridani]

50. Chemical and Engineering News, or CIA?

Who ya gonna believe? I pick C&EN, myself

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=358&topic_id=1244

[msallied]

8. All Hail the DLC

They're like Neocons, only they don't hate gay people as much.

[HooptieWagon]

13. Good summary. n/t

[grantcart]

14. land mines are the war that keeps on giving

20 years later Cambodia still has children losing their limbs every day.

[taterguy]

17. 38 years

Time flies when you're having fun

[Zachstar]

15. I suggest everyone bookmark this...

Bring it forward EVERY time someone talks of Clinton of having "Experience"

[hueyshort]

72. Yes, because when she responds

you are going to be a little less gullible about falling
for Hit posts.

[Texas Hill Country]

16. Korea - the reason why we dont want to ban landmines...

we would have to substantially increase equiptment and troop levels in Korea to meet our obligations and remotely keep NKorea in check, which is hard enough as it is.

I agree that landmines suck, but in certain circumstances they are a necessary evil. The bans dont allow for exceptions, that is the issue.

It is great to be idealistic, it is much harder to be realistic.

[anigbrowl]

18. The bill banned cluster munitions in CIVILIAN areas

Please read a little more closely. The area full of landmines in Korea is a strip of land with barbed wire and machine gun emplacements all over.

[Zachstar]

114. Which is why voting for the ban ought to have been a no brainer.

[grassfed]

20. Israel saturated Lebanon

in the final hours of the 2006 attacks when a truce was about to be announced. It is not only the Korean situation pushing this.

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/24/isrlpa13798.htm

[Usrename]

59. Fine, then try being realistic. Cluster bombs are terror weapons.

They have no other tactical purpose.

We actually dropped cluster bombs together with humanitarian aid, MREs (actually HDRs)that were the identical color, in certain areas.

You know what, your right. It is much harder to be realistic. You should go ahead and try if you think you're up to it.

U.S. Warns Afghans That Cluster Bomblets and Food Packets Look Alike
U.S. radio broadcasts into Afghanistan now include a safety warning: airdropped food parcels are square, unexploded cluster bombs are can-shaped, and both are yellow, so it is important to tell them apart.

"Attention people of Afghanistan!'' the broadcasts in Persian and Pashto say. "As you may have heard, the Partnership of Nations is dropping yellow Humanitarian Daily Rations. The rations are square-shaped and are packaged in plastic. They are full of good nutritious, Halal food,'' prepared according to Islamic precepts.

"In areas far from where we are dropping food, we are dropping cluster bombs,'' the radio spots say, according to a transcript obtained on Monday. ``Although it is unlikely, it is possible that not every bomb will explode on impact. These bombs are a yellow color and are can-shaped.

[RaleighNCDUer]

87. There's a huge difference between landmines as part of a

marked, static defense and landmines and cluster bombs used in a fluid battlefield surrounded by civilian populations.

[Zachstar]

88. Hit the nail on the head!

Cluster bombs and instant minefields are never marked and are a nightmare for civilian populations.

But did Clinton give a shit? NO
Did she care about the fire ring in certain models? NO


Clinton needs to be called out on this. It is sickening and ruins our image around the world!

[hedgehog]

23. But, but, but - hasn't Hillary made a career of advocating for children?

Maybe someone needs to tell her that even if cluster bombs look like toys, they aren't good for kids!

[surfin]

52. Please remember how she help the rapist and hurt the 12 yr old girl

How anyone could vote for her or any mother is amazing to me.

[Zachstar]

89. Can someone kick that topic back up please if they have it on bookmark?

I think people ought to see the "Real" Clinton.

[MessiahRp]

24. Great post!

I lifted it and credited you on my blog.

Thanks for the info!

Rp

[Zachstar]

101. Please note in your blog about the fact that some of the CBUs in the US military have fire rings.

What Clinton did was sickening. Those fire rings used in civilian areas could cause untold death and destruction and more pain later from unexploded bomlets. The military must be banned from using them where they can do more than harm the enemy.

[Voice for Peace]

26. BIg K&R

Indefensible. I hope Obama brings it up.

[cottonseed]

28. That's triangulation that kills.

Hillary Clinton. DLC.

[Divernan]

29. Liberal New Yorker explained HRC's vote to me.

I had speculated that HRC was yet again demonstrating that she has more testosterone and is more militaristic than any of the guy candidates. My liberal NYC friend had this opinion.
The Israelis carpeted a many miles wide swath of Lebanon with carpet bombs just before a cease fire went into effect - obviously intended to make the farm lands unusable and/or kill civilians, including women or children. In fact hundreds of Lebanese have been killed by these bomblets since the ceasefire took effect. The reason HRC would not vote to ban these weapons was that it might offend her big ticket donors who are aggressively pro-whatever-Israel does. So you see it was campaign donations on the one hand versus maiming and killing innocent civilians, including children on the other. What's a Hillary gonna do? Follow the money!

Oh, but her followers luv her cause she cares so much about women and children. Right!

[tekisui]

32. See this article on this issue:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4647480

[tekisui]

33. KNR!

[nebula]

34. Cluster Clinton belongs in the GOP

because she is definitely in the wrong party.

[fenriswolf]

35. Depleted Uranium is a killer too

our tanks, armor, bullets, shells are made of depleted uranium, the heavier a metal is the more it can pierce. of course in the sands of iraqi the depleted uranium is sandblasted and the uranium particles mix with the dust, iraqi is now a radioactive area. mutant births are on the rise, cancer is on the rise. Our soldiers are coming back with this shit in them. its horrible.

[Divernan]

36. Happened after Iraq I also, but this is new, more deadly depleted uranium.

[NM Independent]

37. Yeah, and THIS is the woman that half the Democratic Party...

...wants to lead this country.

I guess some people will overlook anything to have the first woman president, and to have those "glorious clinton years" back again.

I am so far beyond disappointed. Hopeless comes to mind, even with Barack around.

[peoli]

38. k & r

[sloppyjoe25s]

39. Wait - you are using facts and substance AGAIN?!?

we are all just part of a cult - you can't raise real issues to challenge Mrs. Clinton!!!!!! (sarcasm)

K&R

[nomorewhopper]

40. Day One: "I voted for the IWR"

[bagimin]

41. Picky,picky.

[FrenchieCat]

43. But, but, but.....

Ohio is her kind of state!

What does that say about us? :(

[dailykoff]

44. I don't think we're supposed to know about this.

Or if we know, we're not supposed to mention it. It hasn't come up in the debates, but I think it's about time to take the gloves off. :mad:

[MH1]

45. I guess I'm not supposed to kick this thread either.

But I will. Folks need to know.

[Zachstar]

115. I will as well. People Need to know about this crap.

[Zachstar]

90. Agreed

This and her other votes need to be brought up and talked about.

It is time to take the gloves off and expose Clinton for what she really is.

I suggest everyone contact their local media and request them to run stories about her votes and her supporters. Not just in upcoming states... EVERYWHERE!

[Dinger]

46. Whatever Your Intent, The Thread Title Appears As A Direct Threat To Hillary Clinton

And almost 50 recs. How sick GDP has become.

[Heywood J]

81. "GDP doesn't look how I want it to!

"Whine, whine, Whine." God forbid she look like a butcher, even when she votes to let the country continue to kill civilians in direct violation of the rules of war. Direct threat - only to her chances at election.

[RaleighNCDUer]

91. Only to those who pretend not to know what it's about. nt

[Tom Joad]

48. 1.5 MILLION Cluster Bomblets dropped on Lebanon. Hillary LOVES cluster bombs.

some of these bomblets even lay unexploded in Olive trees.

Strange fruit in the trees, take two.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[surfin]

54. You should post the pictures on your post with this

Which one of these people would you want to answer the phone at 3am.

[krkaufman]

53. Just curious... Is this the kind of different perspective, she was talking about...?

... that a woman would bring to the White House?

I'm missing the maternal aspects of Hillary's vote to support cluster bombs.

[joeprogressive]

55. This is sick. Thanks for posting. My Hillary outrage grows daily k/r

[Zachstar]

109. As does many people in the United States.

Let us keep up the efforts to Expose Clinton for what she is!

[Jamastiene]

56. Wow, that's horrible.

Take a look at this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU">The Dirty Truth Hillary Doesn't Want You To Know

[awoke_in_2003]

93. Well, if you can pin that video

to Hillary, nobody will vote for her:)

[FrenchieCat]

57. This just makes me cry! We can do better......we have to!

Those could be our children.

And she's selling herself as a woman and a mother? I can't buy it.








:cry:

[Zachstar]

67. Few are buying it!

And I expect that many of the voters for Clinton did not know about this either.

Please bookmark it and keep it linked whenever a Clinton supporter starts talking how Clinton is best for the Military or Foreign Policy.

And I suggest you contact your local news and news outlets in upcoming states. They ought to be given the links.

[joeprogressive]

58. k/r

[bridgit]

60. "Cluster bombs and landmines are particularly terrifying weapons"?

Tell Israel to stop using them

[GeorgeGist]

61. Well, Duh ...

Everyone knows that all self respecting terrorists are civilians. Obama's naivete is just amazing.

[redqueen]

80. Are you trying to pretend that these bombs don't kill children

and INNOCENT civilians? For YEARS after the 'conflict' is over?

:wtf:

[stillrockin]

63. One of the many reasons to love Hillary.

:sarcasm:

[mcollier]

69. John and Hillary Singalong

Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran....

No Thanks, We've seen enough....Hillary is such a team player with John McCain...

I guess she feels the idea of being on a ticket with Obama would be reprehensible.

Barack only managed to energize millions of people in America and around the world in a possitive way, an accomplishment we have not seen in our lifetimes...

What are we gonna do..... What are we gonna do..... What are we gonna do..... What are we gonna do..... What are we gonna do.....
What are we gonna do.....
What are we gonna do.....
What are we gonna do.....
What are we gonna do.....

[L0oniX]

68. BIG K&R

BTW ...Hillarat is qualified to answer the white house phone at 3 a.m because she used to do it all the time when Bill was out getting head.

[Emillereid]

73. Fuck you Hillary! If you can't find yourself on the right side of this issue - then I

think your lifetime of experience has failed you once again. Shame on you.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

74. Land mines are awful

Cluster bombs do have a battle field use, I think the two things should be regulated in a seperate manner..

[Scurrilous]

75. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Baby Snooks]

78. She loves cluster bombs

Just look at all the cluster bombs she's tossed out the past two weeks in her campaign. Some of which have covered her in her own shrapnel.

Given the ongoing endorsment by her of John McCain over Barack Obama I will respect Skinner and not say another word if she is proclaimed the nominee at the convention but I will not vote for her. Even if Barack Obama gives in and is her running mate. I would not vote for her if Jesus Christ were her running mate. I think she is evil.

[SEABEE Chief]

82. Cluster Bomb Clinton

McSame.
The silly little nickname is, sadly, once again apropos.
The Senator did indeed vote this way.

[democrank]

84. Welcome to DU, neighbor.

~PEACE~

[democrank]

85. Another sickening example of our inhumanity.

Clinton should be ashamed.

[Norrin Radd]

94. kr

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

96. Just when you thought you heard it all . . . now this!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. So What You're Sayin Is, Had She Voted Nay, It Would've Passed 69-31 Instead?

Yeah... That vote mattered a whole lot...

[cottonseed]

100. So she chose cluster bombs and politics over some integrity?

[jgraz]

102. It's called core principles, OMC

It's the same thing that led all of us to support you when you needed it. Some things are more important than politics.

[hedgehog]

99. Ready for War on Day 1!

[Zachstar]

103. Seems like it.

If she can't see the horror of having cluster bombs go off in a civilian area.. Why will she care about the suffering going on thanks to our being in Iraq?

And her Iran stuff... It is very surprising that anyone thinks that she will NOT be war mongering president while in the White House.

[joeprogressive]

105. kicked

[Zachstar]

107. And another!

:kick:

This needs to be talked about. Clinton needs to not be getting away with such a Horrifying vote.

[Nedsdag]

111. Hey Hillary?

What happened to "helping women and children?"

Well Hillary, your decision not to ban cluster bombings is HURTING women and children!

[JI7]

112. i can't believe people are actually saying this is about protecting the troops

and comparing it to pay and benefits for soldiers.