I kinda believe that the party will split when one of our Candidates

[Mags]

get the nominee, DU is totally split right now. I think the same will happen with the party.

[saracat]

1. I do too! Thats why they need Edwards and Gore to remain neutral.

Someone is going to have to negotiate this. And Dean isn't proving effective.he has been too partisan.

[Tropics_Dude83]

23. I won't support

I won't support the eventual nominee just because Edwards or Gore puts them over the top sorry.

Just because Al Gore or JRE says I should support someone doesn't mean I will.

[saracat]

31. Well, I wouldn't either. I am just saying they might have to broker

a deal at the convention. No endorsement by anyone will change who I vote or don't vote for!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

33. Gore's the only one who can unite the party. Too bad he didn't run--he would've won it in a walk.

[MadBadger]

2. I agree, but I dont agree with the DU analogy

I wouldnt call DU split. Obama is the overwhelming majority here.

[Mags]

5. I know, but neither side will give to the other. It's just tear down your opponent

[thevoiceofreason]

3. Nope.

This fight is nothing compared to the Hart/Mondale/Jackson fight. Glad we didn't have the internets back then.

[yardwork]

4. Or, remember 1980, when Anderson ran as a third party candidate against Carter?

Or 1968....

[Mags]

12. I just know so many people that swear they will not vote for

the nominee if their candidate loses. I mean half the people I know. Even in my family, who are all democrats but 2 and they plan on staying home and not vote for McCain. It's so messed up.

[yardwork]

35. That is messed up. I hope they change their minds by the time November rolls around.

[NDambi]

69. Not going to happen.

[nsd]

58. But Anderson was a Republican, not a Democrat. n/t

[yardwork]

66. He drew off Democratic votes for Carter, allowing Reagan to win.

My point is that this is far from the worst primary in Democratic Party experience. Our party is usually characterized by infighting, backbiting, and generally bad behavior.

[msallied]

14. What happened back then?

Would love to hear the take of someone who was old enough to remember it. :) I bet it was fun.

[OzarkDem]

6. It will split because of Obama's divisive, negative campaigning

and it will ultimately hurt him most.

[yardwork]

8. Did you read NanceGreg's thread? I recommend it.

[OzarkDem]

9. Thanks, I'll check it out

[yardwork]

34. It's on the Greatest Page.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4918902&mesg_id=4918902

[damonm]

10. Pot, meet kettle.

[msallied]

15. LOLOLOL

[Renew Deal]

70. Put down the meth

and get some help. :smoke:

[yardwork]

7. Nah. This primary is actually very mild compared to most.

And most of the country is not particularly divided between Obama and Hillary. Most people I talk with don't feel all that strongly about one or the other. They just want a Democrat in the White House.

I think that the Democratic Party is less close to splintering than it has been in many years.

[movonne]

11. And what do you mean by split..if anyone of the dems would not vote

for the dem nominee, then I must think that they have really been happy with what is going on in this country right now...I am an Obama supporter and if he don't get it I would vote for hillary...not that I like hillary but because she has to be better than mc cain...

[Mags]

16. No they have been very unhappy. Some won't vote for a woman and the other half won't vote

for a black person.

[yardwork]

Oh. Maybe they wouldn't normally vote Democratic anyway?

It's sad that in this day and age some people would actually choose not to vote for somebody based on their sex or ethnicity.

[msallied]

18. Hillary would be the death of this party, therefore

I would not give her my vote. The Democratic party was supposed to be the hope of the country after 8 years of Bush tyranny. Thinking of Hillary as a savior is like using gasoline to put out a fire. No thanks.

[yardwork]

37. You also should check out NanceGregg's post! I recommend it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4918902&mesg_id=4918902

[Danger Mouse]

13. DU is not represenstative of the party at ALL.

All of our petty bickering doesn't mean anything to the Dem rank-and-file. I doubt there will be a major split in the party unless Hillary or Obama wins ugly.

[Mags]

19. Hope you are right.

[LiberalAndProud]

17. bs

My mother voted for Hillary, my father voted for Barack, and they are still speaking. In fact, they found it amusing. Most do not have a strong preference for one candidate over another. This will not "split the party". They are about 1/8" apart in policy positions and voting records. This isn't a "party splitting" moment in time. It wouldn't be such a contentious primary if the two candidates weren't so similar (barring race and gender).

[msallied]

24. It's not a difference in hardline policy so much

as a difference between a lifetime of deceit and corruption versus a fresher start and a message of hope. Few people seem to take the threat of Hillary Clinton seriously, and I think it's because Democrats don't want to believe that their party has been infiltrated by such scourge.

[Auntie Bush]

72. I don't like to think our DU has been infiltrated by such a scourge as you!

How do you like getting it right back at ya? :shrug:

[Benhurst]

25. You're right. None of the important issues are being addressed,

and we're witnessing a political fight to the death between Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

[John Q. Citizen]

20. I don't think so. If it goes to the covention, maybe, but I doubt this will go past

PA., if it goes that far.

[Auntie Bush]

73. How can you say that?

What possible scenario do you see after PA that will prevent this from going to the convention? :shrug: Just trying to understand your viewpoint. The only way I can see that happening is if Hillary loses PA...and with all her new momentum and high poll numbers I can't see that happening.

[Birthmark]

21. I doubt it.

[Mooney]

22. It won't split at all.

Most of the electorate is barely even paying attention, and most rank-and-file Democrats just vote Democrat on election day no matter who the candidate is.

DU is absolutely unrepresentative of the real world.

[Mags]

28. well,I can agree with that. But where I live ,we have a very

active democrat party, for a small town. We have worked together in the last few elections, for instance to get Harold Ford elected. This election, the party is fighting over who we should back, some refuse to work for either canidate because,they are totally split. Some are evening saying they will not vote. I know it's crazy, but that is the way it is.

[Mooney]

29. Ask them how they feel about it in October.

No matter who they're all supporting now, no matter who they swear up and down they'll "never vote for," all they'll need to do is see a couple of McCain campaign ads around the time of the World Series. You'll be very impressed with the speed with which they come back, and even more impressed with how quickly they'll abandon their highly principled and uncompromising stands to keep John W. McCain out of the White House.

[Mags]

32. You must not be from the south. When these people decide

who they are for, they don't give an inch. They will stay with their canidate, come hell or high water. They take their ball and go home.

[saracat]

36. It is very split where I live as well. And most of my family aren't voting

if Obama gets the nod.And despite all arguments to the contrary, there is a lot of that going on. And they will not change their minds.

[katty]

26. yup, typical of Dems - no unity possible

[NeedleCast]

27. Yes!

Because Obama and Clinton are so different and DU such a complete representation of average joe democrat.

Beyond ridiculous

[Mags]

30. It is not rediculous to me. I find it disgusting that we are all

so far apart here and within my Democrat party locally.

[NorthernSpy]

38. Obama's caucus victories suggest that his supporters care more...

Make of that what you will.

[Mags]

40. that could be, but things in my area are totally different.

We have tried very hard to hold on to Dem. members , but more then half say they will not vote for one or the other.They will stay home or vote McCain. How do you solve something like that?

[movonne]

52. Well where in the hell do you live...I live in a very small town and probably

leans redneck and repugs..but we have a very active dem party...

[Mags]

60. southern Tenn.

[DemBones DemBones]

43. Caucus victories suggest that his supporters bully people

and/or that people think they must vote for Obama because he's black.

People know how you vote in a caucus and might accuse you of racism unless you support the black candidate.

Caucuses allow dominant personalities to tell everyone else what to do. We should have primaries only, no caucuses.

[PassingFair]

67. Not all caucuses are alike.

You can have simple caucuses.
You can have MAIL-IN caucuses.

They're not all like Iowa.

In Michigan in 04, we just walked in and voted.
That was IT.

[NorthernSpy]

75. LOL -- you think caucusers in white Maine were "bullied" into voting for a black guy?

And if no one had been looking, they'd have voted against him?

Thing is, Maine caucuses allow people to vote by secret ballot ahead of time if they wish. And Obama still won here by a large majority.


Your post absolutely oozes paranoia. You think blacks are somehow controlling the actions of a dozen white caucus-goers in some desolate little village in Aroostook. Weird.


But there seems to be a lot of that going around among Hillary supporters who fit a certain description.

[DemBones DemBones]

39. I agree. I can make myself vote for Clinton but Obama, NO way!

So they both need to step aside and let Gore and somebody else -- not Obama or Clinton -- be our ticket.

If Mr. Massive Ego hadn't rushed to run for president as soon as he got in the Senate, we'd have a nominee by now. He probably cuts in line all the time, cuz he's so special and entitled. Can you tell he's really pissed me off?

[dysfunctional press]

71. and it's just the opposite for me. NO WAY can i vote for hillary...EVER.

nt

[leftstreet]

41. The CLINTONS split the party with their DLC bullshit

Once they're gone the party can get back to being real

[Mags]

44. I really don't think that is fair. In my area, it is Obama splitting

our party. I assume it is happening everywhere, Clinton, Obama, both splitting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. And They Can Take Their Half Of The Party With Them

Is that what you want?

The Dems will never win another presidential election without Hillary Clinton's base...

[movonne]

56. Oh I think you are wrong about clintons base...I think that Obama's

base is just as big so maybe Obama's people were not to vote for hillary I don't think the dems would win either...and without Obama we could lose a big chunk of blacks that wouldn't vote...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. You Are Probably Right

They both represent about half the party... Either can prevent the other from winning in November...

All it would take is for either to say "I was screwed...I'm going home" and the Dems will lose...

[bling bling]

42. I'm worried about it. This year people's hearts and dreams are invested.

I've chosen Obama because he really resonates with me in a way that inspires me to raise my level of consciousness. That kind of leadership can benefit ALL of us. Whereas Hillary Clinton tends to bring out the ugly in many people. I just can't take that anymore. But I'm starting to really understand that some of Hillary Clinton's supporters are truly going to have broken hearts if she doesn't make it. I don't know why I didn't really see it before but I'm starting to understand that Hillary Clinton *really is* representing to many women the fulfullment of a dream, perhaps a lifelong dream.

When I think about when I was working as a sales assistant and remember some of the degrading and belittling things that were said to me by some of my superiors, it makes me identify more with who some of Clinton's most devoted supporters are. I remember once I was looking through resume's sent in for an ad we'd posted for another sales assistant. I picked out a few that looked qualified and gave them to one of my bosses. He flipped through them and then laughed at one and said "uh, no, I can't hire a man. I couldn't tell a man what to do." And it genuinely didn't register with him what he'd just said to me. When I think about myself walking back to my desk, suddenly going from somebody that felt important to feeling like a nobody, it makes me identify with many of the women who want to vote for Hillary Clinton.

However, Obama has supporters who have lots of their own stories to tell who see their own dreams being filled if he's nominated. I dare say some of Obama's supporters could probably one-up many of us with some of their stories of their own experience.

But that isn't at all my point. It doesn't matter, because nobody has more justification to have a dream fulfilled than another. Dreams are dreams. And this election is going to test our ability to kind of relive some painful moments in our life and rise back up and get back on board with a party that has never truly represented all of us. I'll admit I'm concerned at what could happen. I think some of that will depend on how the party as a whole responds. I've been feeling bitter and angry towards Hillary Clinton lately but I know for myself I need to remember that many of her supporters are men and women who have taken care of the rest of us in many ways. They're our moms and dads and sisters and brothers and friends.

That thread I re-read yesterday with my ugly comments (the one I PM'd you about) was a real turning point for me. Seeing some of my own words in reflection, the bitterness and anger was an eye-opener. I was blaming Clinton supporters for being so knee-jerk and angry and whatnot and then to see my own words again and realize how ugly and knee-jerk they sounded was a lightbulb moment. I think some of us are all projecting onto each other. At least I know I've been doing it. And now that I realize it, I want to change that.

I can't say I feel much differently about Hillary Clinton right now but my point of view, my perspective, about her supporters has really changed. I want us all on the same side in the end.

Anyway, thank you for graciously accepting my apology by PM. That was an important learning experience for me.

[Mags]

61. good post. I think you are a good Democrat. Just vote your mind and heart.

I would love for us to all be on the same side. It would be so much easier. You are very kind. Thank you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

46. DU is not the party.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

47. DU is not the party.

[jwirr]

48. Neither Hillary or Barack depress me as much as the people

on this board who will not vote if they do not get their way. Do any of you care about the vulnerable people who are going to get hurt because you set back on your ass pouting? The poor? The disabled? The elderly? The homeless? The hungry? The students who cannot afford to go to school? And that is just the tip of the iceberg. I will vote because I care. My candidate has already dropped out.

[TexasProgresive]

49. Then we're dead and deserve it.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

50. Those of us not vested in the hate -- the majority -- will unite behind the nominee'

It is only those that are blinded with anger, be they democrats or intentional disruptors, that envision this scenario. They are NOT as prevalent as you suggest.

[onenote]

51. DU, thank goodness, is totally not representative of the party

[Arkansas Granny]

53. Most Democrats are not as involved or as vocal those posting

here on DU. I don't expect a split in the Democratic party regardless which candidate gets the nomination.

[MoonRiver]

54. I agree, and it will probably mean we lose the general.

It's very sad how Dems just keep self-destructing.

[marlakay]

55. people on some blogs might but not the party

sometimes it is easy for us to think we are the party but we are not. there are a ton of dems that vote and not much more. they actually have a life and don't blog. they are the majority not us and in a way that is good news because if it was like us we would be doomed and split like you said.

[OnionPatch]

57. No, I really don't think so.

DU is a small community of people who are very, very interested in politics. I would use the word "obsessed" but I don't want to offend anyone here. :)

Most Democrats I know are still saying they will gladly vote for either one of them. They haven't heard all the insults and slams from the other side that we are exposed to here. DU can't really be accurately viewed as representative of the whole party.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. A split between the Centrist Wing of the Party and the Centrist Wing of the Party???

The two candidates are almost identical in their platforms and records. What would be the basis for the split? :shrug:

[sueragingroz]

63. DU represents a fringe of the Democratic party

roughly 70% of Clinton supporters will support Obama and vice versa...

[Fox Mulder]

64. That would be stupid.

If that happens, then John McCain is our President. :scared:

You know, I can't stand Hillary Clinton, but I WILL vote for her if she is the nominee. I'd rather have her as President over McCain.

[Mags]

65. I'm just feeling like Rodney King, can't we just all get along!

[Bluenorthwest]

74. Rodney and Bush I

I lived in Los Angeles and my neighborhood was being burned and looted, Bush 41 came on TV and 'addressed' the events. My friend's 10 year old watched him and asked us "why is the President smiling when he talks about this?" It was that smirk we have come to know so well. We told the kid, that is why we are Democrats.
That's all.

[NDambi]

68. ...