Can we at least all agree that the word BITCH is out of bounds?

[jgraz]

Jesus fucking christ. I KNOW you're pissed at Hillary. I'M pissed at Hillary. But please, don't express your anger by taking a crap on every woman on this board.

Maybe we need to institute a 3 Bitches and You're Out policy. I'm just fucking sick of seeing it.

[melody]

1. I understand the sentiment, but I think "dick" is used a lot, too

We're not disparaging all men by using it, I don't think.

[TheCowsCameHome]

64. Besides, Cheney gives all dicks a bad name.

[melody]

76. Personally, I'm still very fond of dick

In spite of Cheney

[populistdriven]

127. BITCH is clearly a feminist term

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4936420&mesg_id=4936420



My mom is an old school feminist and uses it freely

[jgraz]

136. Yet if I called your mom a "fucking bitch", she'd probably get pissed

The difference is in how it's presented. Just like if I walked up to one of the "Dykes on Bikes" and called one of them a dyke (actually, I'd likely get the shit kicked out of me).

[populistdriven]

148. fuck is different

[jgraz]

195. How so?

[krkaufman]

205. Well, you could always give it a try, to find out for sure.

Just be sure to take a friend along, so the video can be posted to YouTube.

[jgraz]

206. Exactly my point

[pnwmom]

161. And black people are allowed to call themselves the N word if they want to

-- but they don't use it as a slur.

[trueblue2007]

107. DICK isn't used at all. I dont' see people calling each other dicks.

you guys call us bitches all the time.

[melody]

134. "Us guys"? I'm female. I'm a member of no organized political party - I'm a Democrat

I don't call anyone "bitches" other than "bitches" and I've seen three people on here called a "dick" just
this week.

[billyoc]

2. No.

I've never called Sen. Clinton a bitch, but I don't agree.

[LostinVA]

145. So you think sexist slurs are okay to use against her?

Do you feel racist slurs are okay to use against Obama?

[XemaSab]

3. Jesus Christ

All you seem to do around here is BITCH, BITCH, BITCH! :eyes:

:P

[jgraz]

7. I believe your phrase is "eat my ass"...

:P

:hi:

[XemaSab]

36. No, my choice phrase is

"Suck my metaphorical 12" cock." :P

:hi:

[jgraz]

46. You really need to pray more

Think of the children!!!

[4themind]

4. I'd avoid using it for sure -nt

[marlakay]

5. I haven't written it yet but have said "b"

in a few sentences. I would really like to but i try real hard not to go there for fear i won't stop at that...

[KittyWampus]

6. not any more. I avoid but am not going to castigate anyone else calling Clinton what she is.

[jgraz]

12. That's not what she is

Personally, I think she's pretty close to evil incarnate. But bringing a sexist epithet into the mix is simply not helpful.

[bvar22]

168. Not helpful....AND not necessary.

After her endorsement of McLame, she has gone Beyond Bitch or BB for politically correct shorthand. :)

My wife has a :tee shirt":

"You say the word BITCH
like thats a bad thing !"

:rofl:

[Eurobabe]

201. Good one BVar.

She is BB. :puke:

Endorsing McLame is the last straw. :grr: :nuke:

[Perry Logan]

8. Anti-Clintonites tend to have poor impulse control.

[Abacus]

22. Put it away

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

31. Good point. *Most* Anti-Clintonites tend to have poor impulse control.

[Parche]

9. What Is Wrong

With the word bitch?

:shrug: :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Oh Quit Your Bitching. If You Have A Problem With A Post, Alert The Mods.

:P

[Deja Q]

11. bitch, dick, cocksucker, bushlicker, let's can it for both genders

[LulaMay]

13. Thank you.

[bunnies]

14. I'd rather be called a bitch than an "obamabeast".

So... whatever.

[jgraz]

139. Really? "Obamabeast" is so fucking stupid it's funny

[LiberalAndProud]

15. Unless you're talking about McCain, I would agree.

I really think McCain is Bush's bitch.

[jgraz]

19. Would you call McCain "Bush's nigger"?

Means about the same thing.

[LiberalAndProud]

26. no, I wouldn't

and no it doesn't

[americanstranger]

30. Gratuitous and unnecessary.

That word pisses me off worse than 'bitch.'

Please edit the header.

- as

[NashVegas]

65. I Don't Like It, But I Find It Highly Illustrating

..

[pnwmom]

163. The words are equivalent. Both are nasty slurs.

It's just that many of us are still more comfortable using slurs against women as a group than against racial groups.

[Recursion]

118. I think the c-bomb is more of a parallel with the n-bomb, personally (nt)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

16. Completely agree. Petty name calling is out of bounds, except when it comes to Rethugs.

[Book Lover]

17. You are not alone. But this question has been raised and

the admins did not want to forbid its use. I don't think we are going to get what we want.

[LulaMay]

24. Hence, my post about sexism not being addressed in 'liberal' politics, The admins should be ashamed

I didn't know this.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

Sorry, some of us don't think "bitch" is inheritantlly sexist.

Or a slur on all women.

[jgraz]

42. In context it is.

"Quitcher Bitchin" is not sexist.

"Hillary is a fucking bitch" is.

Using the word to denigrate a woman is the kind of inflammatory sexist shit that we don't need -- especially when the board is already in complete meltdown.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. ORLY?

So if I say, "hey Hillary, quitcher bitchin" you'd be fine with that?

I think what you're trying to say is that if people were calling her a bitch, simply because she was a woman, that would be sexist. You're forgetting that people are judging Hillary based upon the content of her character.

Or lack thereof.

[jgraz]

69. Go ahead and judge her character. I do it all the time.

There are plenty of ways to express your complete disgust and contempt for Queen Evil without resorting to sexist slurs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. It's not a sexist slur.

If you don't think applies to Clinton, tell us why. Just don't pretend it's a sexist slur.

[jgraz]

80. OK, if you say so

:eyes:

[KAZ]

18. You just used up 2 of your 3. n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. Not until Senator Obama becomes a woman. Until then, only racial slurs are out of bounds.

[goldcanyonaz]

155. So very true.

[VotesForWomen]

181. please provide links to people tossing the N-word around here. nt

[Arkansas Granny]

21. I would be happy to see all of the name calling go away, but I

don't expect that will happen.

[americanstranger]

23. I won't use that word, no.

'Quisling?' Sure.

'Female Joe Lieberman?' Yep.

'Reprehensible Turncoat?' Maybe.

'Sociopathic Egomaniac?' Possibly.

'Closted Republican?' Perhaps.

But no. I won't use the word in question. I got standards.

- as

[Window]

25. But, I thought it was okay because they said it was on SNL!!!

[jgraz]

32. You haven't been using it the same way and you know it

[Window]

57. You are correct. I wasn't.

[City Lights]

27. But her gal pals on SNL claim that "bitch is the new black."

I thought it was cool to use it now. I just can't keep up anymore with what's acceptable and what isn't. But for the record, I've not used that word to describe her.

[Carolina]

28. NO!

Shrillary is actually lower than snake shit, but LTSS doesn't have the same ring as bitch

Too bad, too, since equating HRC with female dogs -- among my favorite animals -- maligns these wonderful ceatures.

[Ichingcarpenter]

29. republicrat- she is joined at the hip with McCain

London-based WPP Group owns Penn, Schoen & Berland, whose president Mark Penn is Hillary Clinton's chief advisor. The same British lobbying octopus also owns BKSH, whose chairman Charles Black is the lead advisor to John McCain; and WPP also owns Ogilvy Government Relations, whose leader Wayne Berman is McCain's Washington DC finance co-chairman and senior advisor.

Enough connections for you?




Well, there are more. Penn's firm, Burson-Marsteller Worldwide -- with 2,000 employees and $300 million a year in revenue -- owns BKSH & Associates, the major lobbying firm chaired by Charles R. Black Jr. That's right, Black, counselor to Republican presidents, and now John McCain's advisor reports to Clinton's top strategist.

The connections get even more entangled. Burson-Marsteller is a subsidiary of WPP Group, a London-based advertising and PR giant that owns many of the biggest names on K Street. These include Quinn Gillespie & Associates, Wexler & Walker Public Policy Associates, Timmons & Co., Ogilvy Government Relations Worldwide (formerly the Federalist Group), Public Strategies Inc., Dewey Square Group and Hill & Knowlton.

To be more precise, Penn's parent company employs as lobbyists and advisers an ex-chairman of the Republican National Committee (Edward W. Gillespie), a former House GOP leader (Robert S. Walker), a top GOP fundraiser (Wayne L. Berman), and the former media adviser to President Bush (Mark McKinnon).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

[DJ13]

33. Im seeing Hillary supporters using asshole a lot to describe Obama supporters

As an asshole, I find that personally offensive too.

[CitizenRob]

34. YES! 100% agreed. We are here to have civil discourse.

If you're here for something else, I wish you'd leave.

[jgraz]

198. Well, let's not get carried away.

We've got to have some fun -- this isn't the fucking PBS NewsHour.

[Botany]

35. How about the hateful "Spank Monkey?"

Oh you are a big Spank Monkey and I don't like you too.

[democrattotheend]

37. I agree

It's sexist and I have yelled at a lot of people who have used it against Hillary Clinton or other outspoken female politicians.

I'd love it if we could also eliminate "cultists", "trust fund babies", and other derogatatory words used to describe Obama's supporters from our vocabularies.

[Bonobo]

38. One response causes you to start a thread?

[jgraz]

53. Nope, not just one.

I've seen at least five that I can remember since Hillary "won" on Tuesday. Alerted every one of them.

[noamnety]

120. When you alerted on them

was anything done?

[jgraz]

200. Eventually they were deleted

But all the "you're goddamn right she is" responses stuck around.

[Gore1FL]

39. I agree to that

There are plenty of real reasons to be against or for Hillary and against or for Obama. Using slurs is not more powerful than the real issues anyways.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. Agreed.

[CoffeeCat]

41. I will agree that it is probably inappropriate...

...even if it is highly accurate.

[Exilednight]

43. Would you be happier if I called her a ....

prick? :sarcasm:

[kwenu]

44. No! Especially after some dumb poster wanted to yell sexism immediately after calling Obama

supporters bitches. I really don't think Hillary is a bitch anyway. She's very intelligent, qualified and somewhat personable but she's not the best person for the job of U.S. President in the race.

[Vincardog]

45. Speaking as a registered dog breeder I have to say there is nothing wrong with the word BITCH.

The last thing you want to mess with is an angry bitch, She will fuck you up.
What is your problem with the word?
Do you have a problem with Cow? Heifer? Gilt? Sow? Pullet? Hen? Filly? Mare?

On the there hand is there a problem with Bull? Steer? Colt? stallion? Cock? Rooster? Boar?

[jgraz]

50. There's also nothing wrong with the word "fag" if you're a smoker in Britain

Doesn't mean that you're not a raging homophobe if you use the word against a gay man. Same thing goes for the context in which people are using "bitch".

[Vincardog]

55. Ar you suggesting that the word Bitch which is the name of

a noble animal which represents all that is good in motherhood, devotion and loyalty;
is the same as fag which in one country is used to describe a cigarette?
Please tell me you are not serious.

[jgraz]

63. Are you for real?

Nevermind, I'm not going to bother finding out.

[Vincardog]

68. "BITCH. A she dog, or doggess" where is the offense? Tell the word police they lose this one

[Book Lover]

71. Are you trying to tell me that

a word that I personally have been insulted by can be construed as a compliment (that is, if I were a devoted and loyal mother to a litter of children)?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vincardog]

Now troll is an offensive term. Can we agree not to call everyone who refuses to

march in lock step with our every petty opinion a troll?

[Vincardog]

85. I am telling you that when someone calls you a Bitch you should say "thank you".

If they think referring to you as the proud mother who would die in defense of her offspring is a bad thing: well they are showing their ignorance. You can not control what happens you can only control your reaction to what happens.

If you allow some ignorant sexist clown to make you feel insulted by referring to you as a noble creature that is up to you.

[Book Lover]

90. You are some piece of work

Live my life, buddy. Live my life.

[Bluerthanblue]

117. I consider it a compliment myself-

guess it depends on your perspective of what an insult is-

;eace~

[Book Lover]

182. If that's what you need to tell yourself when someone uses that

word to insult you, then I wonder why you play that game. Trust me - I work with words every day, and have for many years. You think I don't understand how to play these semantic games, and why we do?

If someone insults me, I take offense. I don't play this "Oh, that doesn't bother me!" thing. If someone slaps me to injure me, I don't tell myself that a hearty slap on the back is something good friends sometimes do.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluerthanblue]

116. WORD up!

:hi:

peace~

[LostinVA]

152. 1) You're wrong and 2) since when do dog breeders register in the US?

Dogs get registered, not breeders.

What breed and what registry?

[Vincardog]

169. A

[LostinVA]

173. You can't even spell the breed right

:rofl:

And you don't register as a breeder with them. You register your dogs, you can become a member, and you can advertise as a breeder in their directory, but you don't become a "registered dog breeder."

[pnwmom]

166. There is nothing wrong with the word when you are talking about a DOG.

And everything wrong with it when you are talking about a woman.

The word "f--got" also means a bunch of sticks. But it is still a slur when used against gay people.

[LaStrega]

47. What about bastard ...

Can I use the word bastard?

I'm personally not offended by the 'b' word (the 'b' word that's not 'bastard').

[racaulk]

48. THANK YOU!!!

I totally agree. Juvenile namecalling like that has no place in any kind of civil discourse, and sexist crap like that *should* have no place on a progressive message board.

[jgraz]

51. Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of juvenile namecalling.

But some things are should just be right out of a civilized discussion. Personally, I think Hillary is a stupid poo-poo head. That name doesn't have the historical baggage that "bitch" does.

[kwenu]

52. Bitch doesn't necessarily imply sexism.

Men are frequently called bitch too.

[jgraz]

54. "Hillary is a fucking bitch" does.

Do you agree?

[kwenu]

56. Yes. I agree that that is sexist in that context but I haven't run across that here personally.

Although I wouldn't doubt that someone has said it.

[jgraz]

59. I've seen at least five of those since Tuesday night

[racaulk]

60. Here ya go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4933393#4933499

[racaulk]

58. Wrong.

Why would a man be called a bitch? Wouldn't that be because he is perceived as having some qualities that are not manly or that he is lesser than the person who is making the insult? When a man is called a bitch, the insinuation there is that the man is womanly, and therefore, the insult is still sexist.

The gender of the recipient of the insult does not change the meaning of that insult.

As another example, if a woman is called a f*****, would the insult not still be homophobic?

[Vincardog]

66. "BITCH. A she dog, or doggess " Where is the offence there?

[racaulk]

67. Do you honestly not see "bitch" as on offensive term?

Really?

[jgraz]

72. Stop feeding the troll

[Vincardog]

91. What is your problem with the word? Did someone call you a bitch?

[Vincardog]

78. Ask any dog people. Bitch denotes a Strong devotion and tenacity. It is a term of respect. REALLY

People who want to regulate the words we use want to regulate the thoughts we think.

Fuck the Thought Police

[racaulk]

92. Context goes a long way as well.

I understand that a bitch is technically a female dog, which is totally fine. But when the term is used against a person, especially a female that is unliked, it is not meant as a term of respect. And when a person with an Obama avatar calls Hillary a bitch in the GDP forum during this primary season, I know that it is not meant in a respectful way, and it is most certainly meant to put her down for the fact that she is a woman. To think otherwise is simply to be naive.

My objection has nothing to do with regulating anyone's words or thoughts. You can say or think whatever you want, be my guest. I believe the OP was just a call for civility. There are a lot of things to attack Hillary for (I'm not a fan, trust me), such as her record, her campaign, her stands on issues, etc. But to resort to juvenile namecalling of one candidate does nothing to support the opposing candidate. And it certainly does nothing to add to civil discourse, which we could certainly use more of around here.

[Vincardog]

102. I agree that could certainly use more civil discourse around here. I would much rather

be discussing the real issues of the campaign and working on ways to defend our country. The fact remains that stopping the thought police is one of those issues. It is silly to spent this much time ands space on arguing about using a silly word as opposed to the real issues facing us.

[LostinVA]

146. I'm a dog person -- unless I'm talking about a dog, it's sexist

Stop making excuses. Would you be crying "thought police" against racist remarks?

[Bluerthanblue]

119. I am not offended by the word, and believe me I've

heard it alot.

The modifiers that are put with the word are usually the hurtful things-
In my experience-

I know dogs to be pretty wonderful beings- loyal, incredibly friendly, patient, forgiving, gentle and good.

Even the ones that have known some pretty awful humans.


peace~

[racaulk]

122. Again, it's more of the context for me.

The word in a vacuum taken it its very literal sense is not bothersome to me. How could it be? However, with the exception of its use by those that work with dogs professionally (breeders, trainers, etc.), I have never in my 32 years heard the word "bitch" used in any kind of positive context. Especially when it is directed at a human female.

But our different perspectives undoubtedly come from different life experiences. :hi:

And you're so right about dogs, they are the most loyal creatures! I'm more of a cat person myself, but when my partner and I moved in together he brought his two dogs with him. They're the most attentive, intelligent, and patient animals I could imagine, and just a joy to have around. :)

[Bluerthanblue]

143. I've been called all sorts of things with the

intent to wound and hurt- so maybe my perspective is as odd as I am- :silly:

I've never been without a dog to at least hang out with, even when I was in foster care.

Cats came into my life only after adulthood- but they are really cool in their own way- Sometimes a little to much like 'humans' for my comfort- :P but full of character and mischief. "Queen" is the term for a female cat- we use it pretty often. (4cats,1dog 2kids and me)

Hurting words come in many forms- I try hard not to resort to them- but I'm far from perfect.

We could all benefit by being more 'bitchy' with each other (in the literal sense of the word)-

thanks for your reply- :hi:

peace~

[pnwmom]

167. So what. If you called a man "gay" in order to insult him, it's still homophobic,

whether or not the man is actually gay.

And calling a man a bitch is meant to slime him by comparing him to a nasty woman.

[latinolatteliberal]

61. What if we use BITCH for guys, too?

Can we de-fang this term by using it to insult males, too?

[racaulk]

70. I'm not sure that I would agree with that.

See my post #58 upthread. In my opinion, the insult has the same meaning regardless of who it is directed to.

[latinolatteliberal]

101. Maybe...

You may have a point. The problem is that we now get into the territory of having to determine the speaker's underlying intentions. I, for one, don't mean to negatively feminine my male friends when I call them BITCHES. I tend to use the term to mean that they are acting maliciously. In a situation where the parties hold conflicting positions that each side considers reasonable, I would call someone who is unwilling to mitigate the damage when possible a BITCH.

[LostinVA]

149. Nope -- still sexist

And it's already used as a slur against gay men.

[latinolatteliberal]

177. I don't discriminate. Anyone can be a bitch.

I have definitely called straight men bitch, too. But I sense I won't be convincing anyone. To be safe I'll save it for people I know won't take it the wrong way.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EmilyAnne]

73. Of course. People need to cut that out. n/t

[Jack_DeLeon]

74. No, cause Obama is a bitch...

ROLF. J/K.

But seriously he has cult like followers that scare me.

[IowaGirl]

79. Me, too.

:scared:

[jgraz]

98. Black is the new bitch?

:P

[backscatter712]

81. I'll just switch to calling her Shrillary.

or maybe "sociopath".

[LostinVA]

147. Sexist and a RW meme

The 2nd one is just fucking ridiculous.

[Catherine Vincent]

82. Obama supporters love calling Hillary the b word.

They can't help themselves.

[jgraz]

83. No, we don't. Cut the shit.

If you want to broad-brush Obama supporters, go start your own fucking thread.

[Catherine Vincent]

84. Yes, your people do!

And I'll broad-brush Obama supporters if I want to.

[jgraz]

86. OK, make yourself look like an ass if you want to

I'll be over here editing my ignore list.

[Catherine Vincent]

87. I don't give a shit. nt

[1awake]

128. attitude.. foul langauage.. stands up for beliefs... will you marry me!? n/t

[yourguide]

88. I concur - 3 bitches and you're OUT!

and that is one of the funniest things I have read on the board.

[robbedvoter]

89. Apparently not. Sez a lt about this place. I guess MO was right after all about

this being a downright mean nation...

[Bread and Circus]

93. I thought Bitch was the new Black, according to Tina Fey...

Please, can someone tell us what to think and say some more? I mean, what would we do without the thought Police?

/end sarcasm


Seriously, there's a few things to point out. One, if anyone is going "over the line" it's Hillary in her praise of McCain's experience. Two, sticks and stones. Three, I'd agree that certain slurs should be out of bounds as we should be having a civil yet intelligent debate. However,

Civil is here ----------------------> .

































































































And DU is way down and over here ----------------------------------------------------------------------> .

And the "B" word isn't the problem. The real problem is all the lies and spin.

P.S. I haven't used the "B" word as a slur on DU but to be honest if people want to, it doesn't bother me. I don't think it's an effective way to argue but I'd rather err on the side of free speech. But if people want to make it off limits, let's also make total bullshit off limits too.

[Barack_America]

94. It's out of bounds for people here to use it to describe THEIR feelings...

But many of us live in areas of the country that are very anti-Hillary. And I'm not offended when DU posters state that their neighbors have used that word to describe Hillary.

[Catherine Vincent]

103. I don't get your post

"And I'm not offended when DU posters state that their neighbors have used that word to describe Hillary."

Why are you not offended?

[Barack_America]

105. Because.

In that instance the poster is stating a matter of fact. It's not their own opinion and they didn't choose to use the word.

Now if they said, "My neighbor thinks Hillary is a bitch and I agree"...well, that's a completely different story.

I personally have said that, "I grew up in a town where I often heard Hillary referred to as a 'bitch'".

See the difference?

[Catherine Vincent]

108. Oh, I understand now.

Thanks.

[jgraz]

130. I guess I should be more explicit.

I don't mind seeing the word "bitch" (e.g. Payback's a bitch). What I mind is when people use it specifically to go after someone based on their gender ("Hillary is a fucking bitch").

As it is in most cases, context is everything.

[Bucky]

95. When it comes to Hillary Clinton, it's off limits. However Jgraz is a total bitch

:P

[jgraz]

125. You know it, sistah!

[sandnsea]

96. I just call her rat bastard

if it makes everybody feel better than seeing the word bitch. :eyes:

Call me anything, just don't call me cupcake. (or hon)

[Liberal Veteran]

97. Is harridan okay?

[jgraz]

99. Nicer form of "bitch". Same goes for meretrix, virago and termagant.

[Liberal Veteran]

109. Spoilsport...I noticed you didn't mention "harpy"....

Honestly, the b-word is much nicer than harpy.

Howsabout we settle on "wretch" or "rapscallion"?

[pnwmom]

170. No, and neither is harpy. n/t

[Marnieworld]

100. ya know

some people would think "Jesus fucking Christ" was offensive. I'm not one of them but would you have them censor your speech? I am a woman who does not sweat the use of the word Bitch. Besides it being a female dog and a word that has always seemed pretty tame to mean (it's not the c word for example) it's never been censored anywhere for my entire life. Genital mutilation offends me as a woman. Words I can handle. I don't feel crapped on if I read it. Speak for yourself.

[jgraz]

202. I personally don't care about people being offended. I don't like it when people are disrespected

(Except Repugs, of course)

[TheDonkey]

104. I thought Bitch was the new Black?

[Barack_America]

106. Yep. I agree there is some hypocrisy there. n/t

[pnwmom]

171. And you think it's okay for white people to call black people the N word?

When black people call themselves the N word, they're not using it as a slur. And if women want to use the word Bitch among themselves in order to take back some power, fine.

But no one should be using the N word or the word bitch as a SLUR.

[Catherina]

110. No. That's out of touch with reality

I don't understand the obsession with dictating what's acceptable language because common use determines acceptability, not the vocabulary police.

If it offends anyone, they shouldn't be on a message board where common people post. I'm a woman and it doesn't offend me. It's not a nice word but words like that are reserved for when someone upsets you. If a woman is upsetting people, she shouldn't be protected from criticism, no matter how ugly it is.

[jgraz]

111. "Bitch" is not criticism

You may think it's acceptable, but it certainly isn't anything approaching criticism.

So just so we're clear: if you upset me, you're cool with me calling you a bitch? And what if I called you a cunt? You'd have no problem with me using those names if I was sincerely upset with you.

Now, what if I was upset with a black man and I called him a fucking n****r? Are you also ok with that?

[Catherina]

165. Yep. I'm cool with it. I'll laught at you if you have no reason to call me that

but that's about it. If you have a reason to call me that, I'd apologize for whatever I did.

If you called me a cunt, I'd just stare frostily and ask you what kind of a gutter you crawled out of.

Between your approach and mine, mine is a lot more effective.

Nobody likes a prude or a school marm, except to annoy mercilessly.
You don't know how to handle yourself on the street do you?

If you called me a nigger and you weren't from the block, I'd call you an ignorant cracker or an ignorant peckerwood.
Where you're going with nigger is exactly why the Black community holds its tongue but loses White America because they weren't yanked from their homes, enslaved, had their heritage stolen and separated from their families to be sold like livestock. Equating the two terms shows us how deep your denial still us about the magnitude of the crime White America committed against us. I wouldn't get mad if you used the term nigger, I'd just feel deeply sorry for you for being such an ignorant cracker doomed to wallow in insecurity about your own selfhood for the rest of your life.

White people called us niggers for over 200 years, raped and murdered us and we forgave you. You also told us we weren't fully human and that our blood was so dirty that even one drop tainted future generations. We still forgave you. I don't think you have any idea about the depth of White America's debt to us for 200 years of slavery if you can equate the word bitch with nigger. I feel sorry for your superficial knowledge of what we went through and are still going through.

What you call me doesn't matter. It's what's in your heart, not your mouth.

If a man calls me a nigger, he is calling me something I am not. The nigger exists only in his own mind; therefore his mind is the nigger. I must feel sorry for such a man. - Dick Gregory 'The Shadow That Scares Me'

The worst racism towards African Americans was in the North where people were too genteel to use ugly words like nigger. Nothing changed. I see that ugliness everyday White America keeps telling us we're not owed any reparations for over 200 years of forced labor and suffering. This society basically calls us niggers everyday and we survive so I'm sure bourgeois women can survive a term like bitch just as well.

People need to grow a backbone. The hysteria here over the word bitch is even funnier because the people screaming about it the loudest are the furthest thing from delicate flowers and their words ring hollow because they don't care about the sexism of Hillary Clinton's crimes that hurt millions of girls all over the world. FYI, I don't consider you one of the screamers.

[jgraz]

196. Let's not get into a "whose plight is worse" argument.

I know a few very smart feminists who could take you on in that debate, but I'm not as interested in having that discussion right now. I will, however, tell you that I have a close friend who was beaten almost to death because she was a "bitch", so I hope you'll allow that different people might have varying opinions on the subject.

If you read even a few of my posts, you'll know that I am one of the biggest so-called "Hillary Haters" on this board. I can't stand the woman. I just think there are far better ways to attack her than bringing in slurs against her gender.

[seabeyond]

112. easy enough,.... n/t

[burythehatchet]

113. Not with you on that one. To me its no more or less offensive than "Di*k"

what am I missing; I would love to shed more light on my sentiment.

[jgraz]

121. "dick" doesn't bring a history of sexism with it

You think about it logically and it doesn't make sense to have one word be OK and another not. But NOTHING about this is logical -- it's all about emotion. "Bitch" has been used as a way to exert power over women: psychologically, financially and often physically ("bitch had it coming").

Use of the word as a direct attack on a woman is a shibboleth of sexism, much in the way that "fag" and "nigger" don't just mean "I don't like you" -- they indicate a shared knowledge of a historic power differential and the willingness of the speaker to use that power to denigrate someone on the basis of an inherent quality.

[burythehatchet]

129. Got it, I understand. I have to admit though, the usage of the term

is very deeply embedded in the vernacular and I see the word being used quite casually by women as well as men. And I would have to cogitate on whether the n word should be sufficiently similar to the b word in its' implication.

[jgraz]

132. It's not being used casually

Posting a public message calling a woman a bitch is anything but casual. In Hillary's case, it's also just plain lazy. I mean, we're looking at one of the most divisive, destructive, dishonest candidates to ever slime her way into a national primary, and all we can do is deride her gender? That's just lame.

[burythehatchet]

141. I meant, in general

But I do think it's different on a message board where many people can be offended. I rarely ever use the word but I'll be sure not to.
:)

[ClayZ]

114. Then you won't like this!

Film and audio of the comedy master, Lenny Bruce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvS4BcJ2lFo&feature=related

[Bluerthanblue]

115. I'm a woman, and bitch does NOT bother me in the least- it is

actually a compliment- I'm not kidding around or being sarcastic-

There are many female dogs, and sons of female dogs who I count among some of the best creatures/companions/friends that exist in this world.

Dick's, prick's, bastard- those words fly around here quite abit- where is the equality?

Cunt- now, THAT is a word that offends me- and if you call me that- I may very well go off on you- but as for bitch, I find that more of a compliment than a dis.

:shrug:

words strange things-


peace~

[noamnety]

124. It's pretty clear it's not being used as a compliment. (nt)

[Bluerthanblue]

135. the intent isn't what makes a word 'unacceptable'- someone could

call you "Sweetheart" in a very mean dismissive way- does that make the word 'bad'?

If we are arguing about the intent of the speaker- all words would be 'off-limits'?

:shrug:


peace~

[jgraz]

142. It's a spectrum. Context and intent are very important

If I call my girlfriend "sweetheart" that's cool. If her boss does it, that's not cool no matter how he means it.

My post is not about making the word off-limits. It's about trying to reduce the expression of the sentiment that so often accompanies the use of that word.

I'll admit I didn't do a great job of expressing myself, but I was pretty pissed off.

[noamnety]

144. Intent counts.

Try telling a black man who's just been called "boy" by a white man that intent doesn't matter.

The fact that "boy" CAN be used, even most often IS used in a nonderogatory way is not relevant. When it's used in a racist way, it's racist.

Same with all the tortured logic in this thread claiming that if a word isn't derogatory when applied to a female dog, then it obviously it's not a gender slur to use it in anger at a woman. Please.

[better tomorrow]

123. can we substitute the B with a W?

[jgraz]

126. There's no reason to use ANY sexist language on Hillary

Seriously, the woman is evil, incompetent and unethical enough that we have a lot of options to choose from.

[1awake]

131. hmm.. where I live I hear more men being called it than women... n/t

[better tomorrow]

160. so when Tina Fey called her that, was she really...

putting her down instead of praising her like Bill Clinton said? I wondered where Tina was last Saturday night when Hil and Guiliani were on....makes sense now.

[JerseygirlCT]

137. What does that achieve?

Except maybe slurring some of our wiccan members...

[JerseygirlCT]

133. Thank you, jgraz. I have to agree. nt

[Harry Monroe]

138. But it's OK for Tina Fey??

[jgraz]

140. The way she used it, yes.

She didn't call Hillary a "bitch" as a way of denigrating her or her gender. She was using it to make a point and, even though I disagree with her choice of candidate, she made the point well.

[Harry Monroe]

154. And that point being....???

I guess she used the word "bitch" as a term of empowerment?? But..if a man would have said that, I'm sure he would have caught hell!!

[jgraz]

193. the point being that you need a bit more education on the dynamics of gender politics

[Harry Monroe]

210. Maybe YOU need an education on hypocrisy

Which is what I was trying to point out. I'm all for equality but my point stands. I suggest we simply call Hillary an "asshole", and leave it at that, since both genders have one!! Can't get any more "Gender Neutral" than that!!!!

[rosetta627]

150. How about the word advocated in the Vagina Monologues?

She certainly earned it.

[Bright Eyes]

151. Absolutely.

I say, if you call ANYONE a bitch, you should have your account suspended for the first time, banned after that.

[HooptieWagon]

153. Okay, "bitch" is off limits...

except when used as an adjective for the bitch. She will be the only one I descibe as such.

[Harry Monroe]

156. OK . Can I call her an asshole ??

I think that everyone here would agree that that word is gender neutral since everyone's got one!! My wife calls me this all the time!!:spray:

[AZBlue]

157. Bitch is not sexist. You're using the word incorrectly.

How does calling someone a "bitch" promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender? Because that's what sexism is.

It can be used to be rude and to be derogatory, but not sexist.

[pnwmom]

158. Thank you, jgraz.

I'm glad to see that you get it.

Recommended

[JVS]

159. As a verb or as a noun?

I think the verb is much less offensive

[bicentennial_baby]

186. I saw the other day that the verb is verboten now as well...

:shrug:

[JVS]

188. What about the misspelled past participle, as in "That ad was bitchin!"

[bicentennial_baby]

197. I'd guess verboten as well...

We are way past the looking glass at this point in time. :crazy:

[MindMatter]

162. When she stops being one.

[Not the Only One]

164. bitch is one of the nicer things I'd call Hillary.

She only cares about what's in her own best interest, at all times.

[Imagevision]

172. SNL christened Hillary the bitch, at least we know who we're talking about..

[still_one]

174. It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is. let's parse and triangulate /nt

[dana_b]

175. the only bitch that I know is sitting at my feet right now-

my darling little pitbull/beagle. That word shouldn't be used towards humans.

[Divine Discontent]

176. agreed

you don't want people to take "a crap" on every woman (I like to think it's offensive to more than just women), but you have no problem offending a majority of the population by putting "fucking" between my Savior's name.

How about we not say either phrases? That'd be polite, since you do seem to care about people offending us with the "bitch" word to the point of heavy handed language.

thanks

[HooptieWagon]

184. good point about the F-bomb

[Name removed]

192. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[galadrium]

178. What are you talking about?

Calling Hillary a bitch isn't taking a crap on all women. Not all women are bitches, but all Hillary Rodham Clintons are.

[jgraz]

191. Thanks for being exactly as idiotic as you could possibly be

I remember my racist grandmother telling me: "you got blacks, and then you got niggers." You just said EXACTLY the same thing. Exactly. The. Same. Thing.

[VotesForWomen]

180. bitch = nigger. it's that simple. but it's okay, it's cool to disrespect bitches... uh i mean wome

women.

[fortyfeetunder]

183. Oh No, I wouldn't call HRC by that name

and insult all the female dogs of the world...arf arf!

[Political Heretic]

185. Not according to Tina Fey

:)

[Hailtothechimp]

187. When Obama was talking about "driving the bus into a ditch"

I was impressed the two words didn't get joined together to become "bitch"

Can we call her the "bus in a ditch" instead????

[ecstatic]

189. It wasn't out of bounds when her best friend McCain

and his supporter called her that.

[Bake]

190. Can you even imagine what this thread would look like

if the term in question were "nigger?"

Can you imagine the outrage, faux or real?

Really people. Get a fucking grip. There is no reason to refer to a Dem candidate for POTUS as a "bitch." We could (but please god don't let it happen!) go into the semantics of African Americans using the term "nigger" as a term of empowerment, but in the end we'd all know where it was going.

Can we please just STOP IT?

Bake

[RunningFromCongress]

194. How is it out of bounds? If Bitch is out of bounds so is Bastard/Asshole/etc..

Grow some thicker skin, bitch ( ;) )

[Harry Monroe]

216. Not Really

"Bitch" is almost exclusively female when referring to a human or a female dog. Bastard/Asshole/Shithead etc, etc, etc. are gender neutral. I do agree, we should not being using the word, since it is sexist, same reason the word "nigger" is racist (it is derogatory towards a specific race.

[FlyingSquirrel]

199. I can agree with that.

:thumbsup:

[eridani]

203. Hear! Hear!

Just fucking STOP it! pls? kthx.

[krkaufman]

204. Let's compromise.... When Obama endorses McCain, we call him a bastard.

... or some other such medium-grade FCC-friendly profanity.

[donheld]

207. "Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hold on to"

Who said it?

[saltpoint]

208. The folks at BITCH magazine might offer us a different perspective.

http://www.bitchmagazine.org/

Or, to the current campaign for the White HOuse, maybe praising Republican nominees at the expense of current potential Democratic nominees should be out of bounds for potential Democratic nominees.

God I hope that doesn't sound too partisan.

[noamnety]

209. The magazine is a completely different issue.

Attempts to reclaim a word are obviously not the same as using it as a slur.

[saltpoint]

215. Let's see....o yeah... I knew that already.

I must have been making another point.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

211. EDICT: In the interest of gender fairness, both candidates shall henceforth be assholes.

[Harry Monroe]

217. LOL!!!! That's been my point exactly.

Except in my opinion, Hillary has been the bigger asshole!!!!

[northernsoul]

212. I agree - and should apply across the board

This should include the "bitch is the new black" meme introduced by Tina Fey in support of Hillary.

[awaysidetraveler]

213. Bingo! Agreed... however, I do feel it necessary to use a few choice words about...

the fucking media for unrealistically dividing our party in the meanest possible way.

[mmonk]

214. I'm ok with that. I haven't used it. Others don't have to. It's a conversation

ender.

[casus belli]

218. Unless it's Tina Fey, right? n/t