If HRC does take the nomination, what POSITIVE appeal will she make to Obama supporters?

[Ken Burch]

She and her followers CAN'T win ugly and then just say "you HAVE to back us, because we were entitled to this and you weren't".

She will be under an obligation to to most, if not all, of the reaching out.

What will she offer to African American voters?

What will she offer to the young? To those with ideals?

To those with passion and hope?

She can't just DEMAND their backing if she wins as the conservative candidate by trashing the new progressive forces.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Not a hell of a lot.

If she "wins ugly" a lot of those new, once-enthusiastic voters will probably just stay home. Worse, they will likely abandon the Democratic party.

[Ken Burch]

9. That's the risk. HRC's campaign is the Humphrey in '68 campaign all over again.

Designed by the Beltway to destroy enthusiasm and drive new people away.

[tokenlib]

38. Except Humphrey made it close..Hillary will go down in flames...

..and once again the dems will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

Fortunately Obama will save us from that...

[hueyshort]

64. Our great "Unifier" doin' his thing

[Yael]

44. I have posted this elsewhere, but you can count my white, female, early 40s

self in with this. For the first time in my life, I will re-register as an Independent.

[Madam Mossfern]

2. I don't know

but I'm eager to see what others say.

[pbca]

3. I don't think she'll have anything of substance

to offer them - it will come down to "It's me or McCain" and she will lose at least half of Obamas supporters. If nominated Clinton will lose.

[Carolina]

70. yeah , and after she gushed about McCain's experience

which is both valid and HIS (not derived from his spouse), she won't have a leg to stand on.

[KittyWampus]

she's got nothing to offer red and purple state Democrats either.

[stop the bleeding]

4. Good question

let's see what others say about this

[Ravy]

5. Obama the VP slot.

However, I think it is more likely to be the other way around.

[pbca]

7. I don't think he'd take it

He'd get ready for the 2012 election - Hillary won't win, with or without Obama as VP

[Ravy]

24. I really think he might. The next president is going to have to

preside over some very unpopular things. Issues that are unpopular with the Democrats and everyone else.

This nation is way to screwed up at the moment. How can you deliver healthcare without raising the taxes to do it, when we need to raise taxes to lower the deficit to get the economy back in order as well. Both camps are saying that the Iraq timelines are best case scenarios. Dems will be howling for the prosecution of the Bush regime, but it can't be given the attention it needs with the house burning down.

I think it is likely that the next president will be a one-termer. People are so polarized that they have no patience or tolerance for these big things to happen. How long of a honeymoon did Pelosi have with us?

[pbca]

31. I agree with much of what you say

I actually said alot of it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4978006&mesg_id=4978006

But I don't know that Obama will want to be attached to a Clinton presidency - and I honestly think she'd lose the GE. I think he'll go back to the Senate, do good work, and get ready to challenge in 2012.

[Ravy]

52. Obama is full of ambition....

I think that is a *good* thing, not a slam. I think he would take the VP if it was all he could get.

Hillary is practically saying that he would be her choice on the campaign trail now. The pundits are saying that is to convince Obama supporters to vote for her, but I think she is speaking to the super delegates who don't want to cast a vote that will aggravate either of the camps. Most are elected officials with their supporters probably split between the two.

The more divisive the campaign becomes, the harder the vote for one of them over the other becomes for them. If they can cast a vote for both, they will.

That is my take on things.

[Ken Burch]

53. If Obama took it, HRC would make it worthless.

She would go out of her way to make Obama the weakest veep since LBJ or Agnew. We all know this.

[Ravy]

55. It would be a favor to the party elders, and he would be rewarded

in the end.

[Carolina]

75. but he would have sold his soul, no thanks.

He should turn her down. PERIOD.

HE got where he is WITHOUT the Clintons but after association with THEM (if he took the VP slot), he would be forever tainted.

[JerseygirlCT]

33. Read today that he said he would not. nt

[Ravy]

57. They all say that while they are in the race.

The premise of this post was *if* Hillary was the nominee.

I think the party elders and superdelegates are working for an Obama/Clinton ticket at the moment. The ticket would win big and it wouldn't piss any of the Democrats off *that* much for this to be over and for a love fest to start.

This way the superdelegates will not have to cast a vote that will piss off roughly half of the people they count on to be elected.

[JerseygirlCT]

62. True enough nt

[Carolina]

73. good, I don't want him to compromise himself

by being her VP. He would forever be tainted by his association with her even though she would be sure to marginalize him.

If it comes to that, he should stay in the Senate and forge his career without the Clinton stink.

[tekisui]

63. I don't think either of them would want to run another Presidential Campaign.

[Andy823]

35. How could she offer him the VP

After telling the world he is "qualified", all he has is a "speach", and McCain has the "experience" needed for the job? The republicans would kill that ticket in a heartbeat with adds showing here saying those things. Nope, Obama should "not" accept a VP slot, it would not be good for him in the long run, and the odds are it would do more to help put McCain into the whitehouse.

[Ravy]

51. She would in a heartbeat. She could say

a few years under my wing and he will be seasoned and we will all go singing happily into the night.

[Carolina]

74. exactlly, "it would not be good for him in the long run"

He would forever be tainted by his association with her even though she would be sure to marginalize him as VP.

If it comes to that, he should stay in the Senate and forge his career without the Clinton stink.

[Carolina]

71. which I hope he declines

rather than compromise himself to being second fiddle to HER!

[JVS]

6. Well we will get health insurance out of the deal, of course we have to pay the bill, which if we...

were able to we'd be doing already anyway. So I guess that's a wash :shrug:

[Miss Chybil]

8. They won't vote for her. I'm sure they'll vote for Nader.

/sarcasm

[Ken Burch]

11. She can't just DEMAND their support, and you know it.

She will be obliged to make amends if she wins ugly, which you and I both know is the only way she CAN win now.

Her campaign no longer has any positive aspects.

[Miss Chybil]

39. You're right.

She's not the Last King of Scotland. This is still the United States. May the best Democrat win.

[pbca]

12. Half of them won't vote for her

You can pretty much take that to the bank. Alot of them are not 'Democrats' they are Obama supporters - if he's out so are they.

[Ken Burch]

13. Is that a good reason to STOP Obama?

If people are going to vote for one of our candidates in the fall, does it matter WHY?

[pbca]

16. No, that's what I've been saying for a long time now

Obama broadens the party - creates a new coalition and brings new groups under the umbrella - some of which might stay, but I think alot of them would see a rejection of him as a rejection of them and their priorities and ideas.

[Ken Burch]

20. I see. Sorry, I misunderstood your post.

Thanks for your input here.

[pbca]

29. It also means

that he improves the chances of just about every Dem House and Senate candidate in the country.

[SKKY]

10. Undoubtedly, it will be something warm and caring like...

..."All your base are belong to us!"

[pbca]

14. She'll run on Hope

If she defeats Obama she can claim she's taken his Hope - I wouldn't be the least surprised to see "Yes We Can" printed on Hillary ads.

[malletgirl02]

22. I think you're right

I remember another thread about what message would be if she won the primary and ran against McCain one of the replies was that she would run on "hope and change". You are are exactly right.

[maddiejoan]

15. The same can be said for Obama.

[Ken Burch]

17. No. Obama's campaign is positive and inclusive.

HRC would probably get a cabinet post in an Obama administration. He hasn't said SHE didn't deserve to be president as she did to him.

She never admitted that he was her equal as a candidate.

[maddiejoan]

19. That's because

He's not her equal as a candidate.

Der.

[Ken Burch]

What possible reason do you have to hate Obama?

He's as gay-friendly as HRC, and in fact MORE gay-friendly(we KNOW an Obama Administration would never have settled for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and would never have signed DOMA.)

Your candidate never shows loyalty to her supporters. She's never taken a single risk for LGBT people.

[maddiejoan]

28. untrue

[Ken Burch]

34. It's untrue that you hate Obama?

It's not untrue that HRC has never taken any political risks on LGBT issues.

[MattBaggins]

68. He is not her equal as a candidate

He is superior to her as a candidate.

[Carolina]

78. true, she's equal to McCain!

Der! She said so herself.

Obama is better than both of them.

[rodeodance]

26. only an obamabubble person would believe that sillyness.

[Ken Burch]

30. I'm not in anybody's bubble. Obama never treated HRC like her people treated him,

And Obama never said positive stuff about McCain.

[pbca]

40. I belive BO said that

He respects McCain but disagrees with him on many important issues - if I remember right, that's the closest he's come: Respectful, but hardly an endorsement.

[CyberPieHole]

59. That's ridiculous! Obama has called the Clintons racists and Hillary a MONSTER...

and although it may not have been him personally, it was done by his thugs at his behest. Don't think for ONE moment that Clinton's supporters hold Obama in any higher esteem than you might hold Hillary Clinton. I'd sooner watch McCain become president than vote for Obama. There is a sizable percentage of the population who feels the same.

Besides, if Obama were so "inclusive" why did he throw the LGBTQ community under the bus by allowing the filthy homophobe McClurkin to emcee a show for him?

[yourguide]

66. when did obama call the clinton's racist?

and when did he call her a monster?

when?

link please? as best I remember it a member of his staff, in an off the record conversation, called her a monster.

[Carolina]

79. you hillbots doth project too much

Look at YOUR girl's kitchen sink tactics and her slimy team of Penn and Wolson.

Besides Samantha Power was right: HRC is a monster who will stop at nothing...

[DJ13]

18. She doesnt think she needs the new Democrats Obama has brought in

Her campaign seems to be aiming for a carbon copy of Kerry's 50+1 strategy.

Obama created a movement to help win several bordeline red states to go with the big blue states, but the 50+1 strategy doesnt consider the Obama progressives an important voting block, as witnessed by her campaigns constant ridiculing of small states she loses in.

The party will be making a colossal blunder if the SD's elect her over Obama, one tantamount to a scenario where the GOP would have moved to nominate Bush sr. over Reagan in 1980, throwing away the Southern Dems who moved to support Reagan and gave the GOP nearly 30 years of a solid voting block to build with.

One thing I hope the party consideres is that the Clintons (Bill) have NEVER won a national election with a majority.

They should consider them unprepared to win a close national election.

[marshall]

21. A seat at the back of the Clinton bus with Obama?

I don't see how she can honestly think Obama as the current frontrunner would be flattered and consider an offer to take the VP position behind her. Don't they realize that is going to turn off those Mississippi voters even more? It just boggles my mind that those words came out of their mouths.

[Exilednight]

23. This brings up a good point. IF she were to win the nomination by overturning the PD's....

what will she say in her acceptance speech?

She's playing a very dangerous game.

[City Lights]

25. She'll just expect everyone to fall in line, you know, considering how

awful things have gotten since the last usurper took over. She's counting on people being so disgusted with Bush that they'll vote for her regardless of how many of us she's dissed along the way. We're just speed bumps on her road to victory.

[Cha]

27. She can't take back her

Iraqi War Resolution vote and that's what did it for me. I didn't vote for her in 2006 and she's only gotten more gutterish.

[Carolina]

81. thank you zidzi

her cowardly, calcuating IWR vote did it for me as well!

[JerseygirlCT]

32. I know. It concerns me.

I was talking about this earlier tonight.

The behavior, the scorched earth tactics - they're going to make it difficult for a good number of people to summon some real enthusiasm in the general. She'll win the battle to lose the war.

[McHottie]

36. Like we'll believe anything she says now?

I'm afraid, for me, the train has left the station. It's hard to earn back respect. I would have voted for a duck, if that's who the democrats ran. I thought anything would be better than 4 more years of GOP. I'd still vote for that duck, what I won't do is vote for a snake.

[Carolina]

82. good one and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[GoldieAZ49]

37. Simple answer

vote for me or you get a repub again

put up and shut up


what else would you expect? She doesn't have anything else to offer.

[Onlooker]

41. What makes the Obama supporters progressive?

I support Obama, but only because I think it's about time we had someone other than a white man as president. I would have supported Clinton if she knew how to run a campaign. But, Obama has never been the progressive one. That was Edwards, Kucinich, Dodd, Gravel, even Biden. In some ways, even Clinton is more progressive, with her stronger outreach to gays and lesbians, less outreach to religious conservatives and Republicans, and her health insurance plan (which panders less than Obama's to the insurance industry, though it certainly still panders).

The new progressive force seems awfully sexist, seems to love the man so much that they overlook his policies, and seems prepared to support McCain if Clinton somehow wins. The new progressive force is not so progressive.

[Ken Burch]

48. The Obama people are clearly more idealistic and more grass-roots.

They are younger, which means they haven't gone bitter and cynical yet. And there is space in his approach(which there isn't in HRC's)for activists to be heard. Her administration would be better than what we've got, but it couldn't be inclusive and open to dissenting voices. She's too closed-off and tied to big donors for that.

That's why I see Obama's campaign as being more progressive. And I don't think they've attacked the idea of a woman as president, whereas HRC's people have clearly said we can't nominate a nonwhite candidate yet, thus telling all people of color to give up and accept a permanently subordinate place in society, because we all know if the White House stays white this year, it'll be that way forever.

[bettyellen]

80. you think obama has to win this year or no black man EVER will? um, NO, we don't all know that at!

many of us think it makes no sense.

[Yael]

42. Too little, too late.

I will work for the down ticket race -- we have a (R) in the house we are trying to unseat.

Anyone asks me during that, I will tell them that I will only be voting downticket in November.

[anonymous171]

43. She told me that I wasn't a true democrat and mocked my support for Obama.

She would have a lot of explaining to do.

[Catherine Vincent]

45. Are you assuming Hillary voters weren't passionate and hopeful?

[Ken Burch]

47. Maybe once. They can't still be if they're willing to win ugly.

They can't want the party to get elected if they are willing to split us just to get their candidate nominated.

They need to accept reality.

[CyberPieHole]

60. The only one who is willing to split the party is Barack Obama...

that is why he has called the Clintons racists and had his thug call Hillary Clinton a "monster". That's not what you do if you want to be inclusive. The reality is that if Obama gets the nod say hello to President McCain.

[Carolina]

85. oh puhleeze

YOUR girl's the one who resorted to kitchen sink tactics because she's a loser. And then there's her slimy team of Penn and Wolson.

Samantha Power was right: HRC is a monster who will stop at nothing...

Everyone knows the real spoiler, rule breaker and party splitter is Shrillary Hypocrillary McClinton!

[bettyellen]

83. wait a sec, from the beginning Obama's been saying his supporters will take their toys and go home

if it isn;t him in Nov- where's the unity? where's the real concern about the future of this country? This is immature BS by short sighted people who treat this like a game. Immature only begins to describe it.

[lastknowngood]

46. None to hell with em they have already used every repug trick

n/t

[Telly Savalas]

49. For starters, she'll appeal to our desire to not have 100 years more war in Iraq.

The ideological rift between Obama and Clinton is tiny compared to that between Clinton and McCain.

If Clinton wins the nomination, then either her or McCain will be the next president. Even though I'm not a huge fan of her, I still think that choice would be a no-brainer.

[Ken Burch]

50. I'll vote for her too.

It's about the new people, the ones we KNOW we have to hold onto if we want to win.

Obama can get them. Can HRC, especially if her supporters are dismissive of them?

[Telly Savalas]

65. If much of the grassroots organization supporting Obama throws its weight

behind Clinton, then we should be able to hold onto a lot of the new folks.

Of course at this point there's tension and bad blood between the two camps, but in the real world outside DU, most Democrats are mature and responsible enough to make amends once the nomination is decided.

[monomach]

54. Hillary says that my vote shouldn't count and doesn't matter.

I'm an Illinois independent, so not only am I not a Democrat, I'm from a state that didn't kiss her ass and try to coronate her.

If she wins the nomination with the disgusting scorched-earth campaign she's running now, I'll make sure that she's correct about me.

The only way she can prevent this is by pulling off her mask, revealing a smiling Al Gore who says "Gotcha! It was all a trick! I'm going to be President and Obama's my number two!"

[cooolandrew]

56. Let's just be happy where we are and cross that bridge if we come to it. Inspire each other and

inspire the world. Inspiration is that motivational spirit that strives us to do better Barack is living the dream of endless possiblities.


FIRED UP, LET'S GO CHANGE THE WORLD.

[CyberPieHole]

58. The same one that Obama would make if he takes the nomination: VOTE 4 ME, I'M LIKABLE ENOUGH!

There is NO WAY that Obama will be able to win back the voters he has insulted by labeling the Clinton's as "racists". There is too much animosity and hostility, admittedly from BOTH sides, to bring around the supporters. The sword you are wielding cuts BOTH WAYS. If Obama takes the nomination or if Hillary takes the nomination, say hello to President McCain. Obama's supporters won't back our candidate and Clinton's supporters won't back yours.

[Diana Prince]

72. Fools on both sides

If you don't support the democratic nominee then you can kiss the supreme court goodbye and we will be in Iraq for another 100 yrs. I'm an Obama supporter but I know that either will be better than mccain

[Upton]

61. If she overturns the decision of the PD's

in my mind, that would be tantamount to stealing the nomination. I don't know if there's anything she could say or do for me to even consider voting for her.

[NDambi]

67. Nothing Hillary can say or do to convince me to vote for her...NADA

[Carolina]

69. she offers absolutely

no positive appeal from IWR to the filth she has spewed in this campaign. After 40 years of supporting Democrats, I have had it with DLCers, third wayers, triangulation and BULLSHIT. Fuck her, she'll never get my vote. I can't even stand to see or hear or TV any more... same reaction I have to Bush!

[zulchzulu]

76. Maybe she didn't get the memo that the primary race is almost over

She will not be the nominee. I will wager lots of money that she won't be.

[bigtree]

77. they'd HAVE to join together

or, break apart and let the house crumble where it may. I can't imagine anything either could do to assuage the other's camp, except hope time heals.

[workinclasszero]

84. Hillary will offer the back of her hand

Same ole story, same ole song and dance from the DLC to progressives.

Besides, the only way she could "win" would be a backroom dirty deal.

Nothing Hillary could say, or do, would placate me after stomping democracy into the dirt like that.