This got shot down the first time, but if there's a brokered convention I say they flip a coin

[Hippo_Tron]

As we get closer to the prospect of a brokered convention with no solution I honestly think that there is no way to decide this thing without making the other candidate and his/her supporters bitter.

The superdelegates will ultimately have to make a decision one way or another and frankly even though I'm an Obama supporter, I think that both candidates have a very good case as to why they would be electable and why they should be the nominee. I think that if you support a candidate and don't realize that the other candidate would be a good nominee, you really haven't been paying attention. This is the first really competitive primary in a long time and both candidates have held their own.

I think that in the end the best way to preserve party unity is to tell both candidates that they have made an equally convincing case as to why they should be the nominee and that they have no choice but to make the decision based on arbitrary means.

Bring both candidates into a room and get them to agree that the winner of the coin toss will be the nominee and the loser will be the VP candidate. Have Howard Dean flip the coin and be done with it.

[antigop]

1. oh, brother. n/t

[Birthmark]

2. I say that they should

...ask the leader at the time to call heads or tails...and then throw the coin out of the Convention and down the nearest storm drain.

Then they should nominate someone progressive.

[bilgewaterbill]

3. Ties go to Al Gore.

[saracat]

4. I wouldn't trust Howard anymore, hard as he has been working for Obama.

Find an Uncommitted SD to do the coin toss!

[Hippo_Tron]

8. Fair enough, how about Al Gore?

[saracat]

15. Perhaps but maybe he should be a tie breaker or possible nominee?

[Hippo_Tron]

19. I think that would just piss everyone off but Gore fans

Al Gore chose not to run and many will see it as unfair that he didn't enter a single primary contest and would get the nomination.

Democracy gave us basically a tie between Hillary and Obama and I think that an arbitrary tie breaker with someone like Al Gore doing the arbitration is fair.

[saracat]

31. Maybe they should toss them both out and bring back Edwards?

That would be my honest choice! Seeing as they forced him out in order to have this "historic election" and thought they could get the nasty business of democracy over with more quickly!

But as they aren't going to do that, I think Gore and the coin toss might work under the circumstances you outline!.But it is also probably against the rules and no one would go along with it.

[lligrd]

5. If It Is A Tie, It Should Go To

Kucinich. And that is final.

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. I think it got shut down for a very good reason.

And you know it.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Tell me why I'm wrong

I honestly don't see a way to resolve this thing that won't seem unfair to the other side. We have two great candidates and they both have great cases as to why they should be the nominee. Any decision by the party elders no matter how much reason is involved will be seen as biased.

Coin tosses are a common means of breaking ties in a manner that doesn't involve conflict.

Maybe if one candidate makes a sweep of the remaining states including the ones that they aren't polling well in, it will be a different story. But that doesn't look like the case. Obama will probably win Mississippi by a walk, Hillary will probably win Pennsylvania by a decent margin and all of the other states will go as they are expected to go. This thing is going to be a virtual tie by the time it is done.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. Because Hillary is a ticket killer in the GE, no matter what place she

has on the ticket.

If she is anywhere on the ticket, McCain will win.

Besides, Obama would never sit as her VP, and she sure as shit would NEVER sit as his VP. It just - won't - happen.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. The second point is fair, the first one I don't think is

Hillary has a very good case that she will turn out white women and Hispanics in numbers that Kerry did not and that will put her over the top. I'm not saying it's a guarantee but it's a good argument and based on her primary performance thus far.

I think Obama is more electable but a lot of people disagree with me and the bottom line is that we need the party to be unified if either one of them is going to beat McLame.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. On the other hand, she would also turn out the opposition

in numbers that a ticket without her will not. Millions who would otherwise just not bother, not caring about Obama and not liking McCain, would turn out to keep her away from the White House, even as VP, and especially as Pres. The neo-con republicans, who still don't trust McCAin; the Huckabee fundies, who know her only as a baby-killer - she generates more loathing on the other side than you are giving her credit for. That would more than balance what she would bring to the ticket.

Hillary on the ticket means 4 years of McCain. Obama could do much better with someone - almost anyone - else.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. I think that's a horrible idea for a whole lot of reasons. I wouldn't vote for that.

I'd skip the presidential and vote down ticket. No matter who won the coin toss

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Give me your reasons then

As far as I'm concerned, democracy is going to likely give us a virtual tie between two very good candidates. An arbitrary means is the best way to pick one of them without pissing off the other side.

[John Q. Citizen]

37. Vitual tie my eye. Obama is winning in any and every measure. Democracy

is speaking loud and clear.

If you want to toss it away on a coin toss, that shows how much respect you have for democracy.

There will be no 'unity ticket'

A unity ticket would resemble the Clinton marriage. Not a very good thing to shoot for, IMHO.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. We'll see how it plays out

If Obama leads in delegates and popular vote by the time this thing is over then I think you've got a point. But I have a feeling that won't be the case.

[John Q. Citizen]

39. There is mathimatically no way Hill will lead in pledged delegates. An she has

close to a half million popular vote deficit. Where is she going to make that up?

After Mississippi she will be further in the hole.

[musicblind]

11. It's a good idea. Don't let them bother you.

Sadly some people on here just aren't in favor of good ideas. I think they like the fighting.

[JackORoses]

12. why? because Hillary has a better shot in a coin-flip than in the real Primaries?

[Hippo_Tron]

14. There's a chance she could get the popular vote and he could get the delegates

And even if he does get the popular vote there's the question of Florida and Michigan and the argument that caucuses disenfranchise people. I'm not saying that her supporters are right when they bring these points up but I am saying that they have legitimate points and will likely think that any decision is unfair because of them.

I'm interested in party unity and I think that declaring it a tie and having an arbitrary tie breaker is the best way to do this.

[JackORoses]

27. Caucuses have been used for decades.

Just because Hillary is unable to win them doesn't mean they are invalid.

She cannot catch up in delegates even if MI and FL hold revotes.

It is not a Tie. Obama has won.
You legitimize Hillarite arguments by even considering them.
They deserve no rewards for the campaign they have run. None.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Her supporters won't see it that way and like it or not we need them to win the election

If Obama ends up with both a lead in delegates and popular vote after a Michigan and Florida re-vote then I think he should be the nominee. But I have a good feeling that won't happen.

[JackORoses]

35. Hillary would have to win over 60% in MI and FL too to catch up

It ain't happening.

Her supporters will vote for the Dem in the fall. They may be upset now, but they will come around.
Especially once Hillary withdraws and endorses Obama like a good little Democrat.

[bhikkhu]

16. And you think a coin-flip can't be rigged? n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

21. Sure it could, but I'm not suggesting we have David Copperfield flip the coin

A neutral person like Al Gore or Howard Dean wouldn't be interested in rigging it, they just want to settle this.

[bhikkhu]

24. Just saying, that wouldn't really settle anything.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. If Al Gore or Howard Dean shows them a standard quarter and then flips it...

I don't think there are going to be accusations of fraud.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. From the DLC?

There sure as hell will.

Two of the top three candidates the DLC has screwed in national contests in the last 7 years, to flip a coin that will decide if a DLCer will become president? The only thing that would piss them off more would be to include Kerry. They'll SCREAM fraud.

It's what they do.

That's yet another reason to never let her near the WH.

[bhikkhu]

32. And then everyone goes home happy?

I don't mean to be pointlessly negative here, but I think the result is the same regardless of the winner of the toss - the other side doesn't accept it. Not that either would consider the idea to begin with.

Where two candidates have worked their asses off and accepted untold millions of donations toward the promise of winning the primary and then the GE, they are simply not going to settle for a random coin toss to decide things. And even if they did, think a moment of the hell-to-pay that would come from their supporters.

I really do appreciate the idea that things could be so easy-come-easy-go, but they are certainly not. I hope the contest resolves in some manner soon, but if it doesn't I am confident that we have two of the best candidates I have seen in my lifetime, and two of the toughest campaign organizations, and when things are settled we will have one strong and tested candidate left standing, and not a party of smoking rubble.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. It would require the two candidates to accep the outcome as fair

And that of course will be the challenge.

I should add that I think this should be done in secret. The party elders agree on this, bring the two candidates into the room, sit them down and get them to agree to this.

BTW, I am just throwing this out as a hypothetical to get us on what I think is the right track of thinking. As you said, we have two great candidates. We need to find a way to resolve this and unite the party at the same time.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

17. I agree. I have great respect for the random.

I dislike the pretense of exactitude where it doesn't exist.

Randomness is one of the few truly fair things in life.

(I have found that people seldom really want fairness... we tend to prefer "justice" which is a much slipperier concept.)

[Hippo_Tron]

23. I'd like justice as well, but I'll settle for fairness in order to beat McCain

Fairness is the only way to create party unity. Most of the sensible supporters of the losing candidate will accept the results and the die-hards will come around soon enough.

[Political Heretic]

20. I think a rousing game of paper rock scissors should do the trick

[Hippo_Tron]

22. Funny thing is that they now have Rock Paper Scissors tournaments

But I don't think there's any strategy that can be used in the short term.

[Tresalisa]

26. I think rock, paper, scissors would be more fair - best 2 out of 3.

[bridgit]

28. There'll likely be a brokered conv, it's just hard for some to get their heads around; I therefore

suggest throwing the I Ching coins instead :thumbsup:

[fujiyama]

36. The winner should be the candidate with the plurality of pledges/elected delegates

It would piss a LOT of people off if Super Delegates overturned the results of the plurality of pledged delegates.

At the minimum they should back the winner of the popular vote or MAYBE the vote winner of their respective state, not counting tainted MI/FL results. For a SD to back one candidate or the other because they THINK he/she will be more electable is an awful justification for doing so.

It is not Obama's fault Hillary did not target states all over the country to win delegates. I don't remember Bill making the same mistake in '92 which is why by this time that year he was on his way of taking the nomination.