Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I want my (Florida) vote counted! Yes we can!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:08 PM
Original message
I want my (Florida) vote counted! Yes we can!
Largest turnout in Fla primary history. I want my vote counted!

Florida. Not speaking for Michigan.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. YES IT WILL! One way or the other, you will be counted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I doubt it. Only if they seat Fla delegates as elected now. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. why, you won't be able to vote again if that's what they decide to do? :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I don't want a Fla redo. I voted. I want it to count.
Not speaking about Michigan. Just Florida.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Changenow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. What is it about a level playing field
that the Clinton's don't understand?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. tough. Your corrupt dem officials- elected and otherwise
are to blame for this and I don't want your vote counted as is. And I'd stand with Howard Dean whoever I supported. It was a dem who introduced the early date in the leg and all dems but one supported it. Florida, that terminal fuck up of a state, doesn't get to set its own rules. They agreed to the primary schedule and then went back on their word. Something will be worked out, but it won't be that the delegates as is are seated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. The bill the Dem brought up in the Fla legislature was for PAPER BALLOTS in the GE..
The repugs added an amendment that moved the date forward to Jan. The Dems objected to the amendment.

It was a trade-off for a paper trail in Fla. Dean should recognize that issue.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. That is flat out false. The dems all voted to move the date up
all but one. And again, you are shit out of luck. Dean will not let the delegates be seated as is. He was my guv for 11 years and I know full well that he's someone who won't budge when he believes he's right. Perhaps the best solution is simply that the delegate count be halved. But FL does not get to pull this shit. God, what a political cesspool that state is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's only $35M ... want an address to send the check?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I don't want a redo. I voted. I want my vote counted. Period. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eyeontheprize Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. I want the rules changed
too. It's only fair, my candidate might lose if we stick to our original commitment.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I'm not talking about candidates. I'm talking about my vote counting in Florida! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Changenow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. They can't count only your vote
without changing the rules to benefit one candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
44. Talk to your fucking power grabbing
officials about it then..like bill nelson who decided Florida couldn't wait one week and wanted to screw the DNC over at the expense of Florida voters.

bil nelson is the one who should pay for this at his next election for the lying powermonger that he is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
64. I want to be six inches taller.
That isn't going to happen either. Period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
74. And I'm sure all those who were told that the primary didn't count ...
... would like to have their intent expressed as a vote, as well. There's only one democratic solution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #6
75. "I want the rules changed mid-contest. I want to cheat."
Too fucking bad. You don't get to.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. I want my candidate BACK on the ballot in PA
I want my vote counted too! But because my primary isn't until April 22, I have been disenfranchised.

The party needs to create a single Primary Day (or week) where ALL states get the opportunity to select a candidate from the FULL SLATE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Exactly.
Why must the primary go on for so long?
Have it on the same date and be done with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am psychic. I can read your mind. You voted for Hill in an election you were told didn't count!
If you would care for a life reading, IM me, and for a small fee, I will be happy to tell you all about yourself!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I am psychic too.
You must be an obamaite.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. LOL. Nope. I took time to be FULLY informed. I care about elections. I want my vote to count.
Ms Cleo? :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. RE: I am psychic. I can read your mind. You voted for Hill in an election you were told didn't count
Well, I'm from Florida, I voted for someone other then Clinton in the Democratic primary on January 29th, and I want the primary results counted as is with full delegate representation so don't count on that psychic power too much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thank you!
:toast:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. yep and the DEM turnout was less than the R turnout
unlike the rest of the states where the record total turnouts can be compared.

Bottom line is: not everyone(DEM) voted cause they knew it would not count.

No one really talks about this anomaly, I find it odd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
48. that is really weird stb nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stop the bleeding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. yeah tell me about stb
people seem to overlook this fact when talking about record turnouts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Are you willing to vote again in order to get it counted?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I already voted. I want my vote to count.
Not feeling too comfortable giving the uninformed and disconnected a chance to vote (again).

Not speaking for Michigan. Just Florida.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progdog Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Who are the uninformed
and disconnected that you speak of?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Those who didn't know the primary was moved to Jan. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. The informed were told that it wouldn't count.
The whole Florida thing sucks from all directions, but changing the rules isn't the solution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
57. You should have thought of that...
BEFORE your state forfeited it's place in the Primary. If you did not know that your vote would not count in the Presidential Primary..you...were woefully mis-informed. You can't change the facts. Why do you not want an honest-to-God legitimate election?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
67. Everyone in Florida is uniformed
It's Florida, remember?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. What types of uniforms are they wearing? :) n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #70
88. Snazzy ones!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
69. Ahhh ha!!! You mean the same uninformed people that don't show up for caucuses.
You HRC supporters have been talking about how unfair the caucus system is because it somehow disenfranchises voters when really it just gives more credence to the more informed and active in the party. Now you want to say that because people were disengaged their votes shouldn't count in Florida.

Additionally, I actually consider those that didn't vote just as informed if not more informed than those that voted. They actually knew the rules were broken their votes wouldn't count. If I was in Florida I don't know if I would have wasted my time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. Agree, no need for a re-vote
none of the candidates campaigned there. It was a fair election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Is if fair if you tell the electorate this is a fake uncountable vote
for appearance sake only? Then you change the rules and say - we like the results it was a fair election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Yes. Largest turnout in Fla primary history.
:toast:


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Tough shit. Florida has had enough of an effect on previous elections.
Until you guys figure out how to hold a fair election, sit down with the rest of us
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. How about Howard Dean figuring out how to run an election?
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 12:28 PM by Billy Burnett
Until you guys figure out how to hold a fair election,...

:mad:

You guys? The Florida repuke legislature fucked us after Howard Dean (and the Dem party committees) set up arbitrary new rules.

I'm tired of being told to get over it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Listen, I am willing to admit that my state is full of idiots. People here vote based on what
their friends tell them, ala "my friend told me he was muslim" or Hillary is a B**ch". No kidding. So if Floridians want to have their vote to count, you need to stand up right now, admit your a bunch of idiots and demand that a fair election is held. The more you whine to have the results of an unfair election counted, the more you look like a bunch of undemocratic banana republicans. So pick your sorry asses up off the floor and show this country that you all care about election integrity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
90. And, your Florida Reps were on that committee, and voted in
favor of the rule. Then, they deliberately broke the rule, thinking that they were important enough to get away with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. the high turnout was due to the property-tax measure on the ballot-
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 12:25 PM by QuestionAll
and the voters were told from the get-go that the delegates wouldn't be seated.

sorry- rules are rules for a reason.
better luck next time, though...:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KaryninMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
62. THANK YOU - FINALLY -- the simple facts have been told
And anyone who read that tax bill knew it was not really going to make any difference at all in the long run (another present from Gov. Crist), but most didn't read it and went to vote for the referendum.

For the primary however- we were told our votes would not count. Period. End of story. That is how we voted- and many did not vote.

We were also disenfranchised by our own State party- from Nelson to Thurman to Wasserman Schultz and Meek. All of them-no one fought the GOP legislature- no one tried to reason with the DNC (or accept Dean's offer to help out with finding a way to seat the delegates if there was no choice)- nope. They new that the name recognition would give Hillary an automatic win (although she broke the rule and did campaign here but they called it a "Fund raiser" just in case)and really they were thinking it wouldn't matter anyway because they figured she would have it all wrapped up quickly and there'd be no issue so they would simply seat the delegates.

I am so mad at my local party I could scream- and will scream tomorrow when I call my Congresswoman (Wasserman-Schultz).

Without a re-vote, they cannot and should not seat the delegates. Howard Dean is correct- and thank goodness he is sticking to his guns.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. OK Then
Welcome to DU
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
34. I agree with you. Florida voted. Let the votes count. NO RE~VOTE!!!
Why should states be allowed to re~vote? Florida and Michigan already voted. Let the votes count and SEAT THE DELEGATES.

:kick: and rec
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
36. of course you do. why wouldn't you. unfortunately, your fl reps fucked you
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 12:41 PM by seabeyond
sorry ....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
39. Were you vocal about your state moving the date of its primary against party rules?
Knowing the consequences?

We want Florida involved, but not under the circumstances of the primary vote that was considered meaningless by those knowledgeable.

Let's find a way to re-vote Florida and Michigan and get them back in the process.

Seating the delegates without a "legal" vote is out of the question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. RE: Were you vocal about your state moving the date of its primary against party rules?
I would have to say, I was more in favor of banning electronic voting machines in our state, and adding a requirement to have a paper trail then the move of the primary date. I guess you would rather have Diebold determine the outcome of the general election come November and disenfranchise the voters of my state in the Democratic primary all in the name of New Hampshire's silver spoon. You're profile doesn't state you are from New Hampshire though, so you're probably playing politics due to the fact that Obama didn't do as well as you had hoped, rather then fighting for your entitlement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. You could only pursue one issue? Bummer.
The rules were there and agreed upon by Florida party representatives. They then chose to ignore those rules, as did you.

There are consequences to every action. Now, we're all trying to solve the mess created by YOUR state, not by me. Let's make that part perfectly clear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. RE: You could only pursue one issue? Bummer.
Like I have said many times, you can be mad at the Florida legislature all you want but I had no vote in the matter. There was no ballot that voters were a part of to voice a vote of confidence in the move. I didn't push to have the primary moved forward. I signed no petition and wrote no letter demanding the move. I only knew about the move after the fact. I even voted against the republican representatives that represent my district in the state legislature.

Being honest though, I will admit that as a computer programmer I was pleased to see the ban of electronic voting machines in my state, more so being that they used closed source software. I believe that voting for the ban of electronic voting machines and a mandate for a paper trail for elections outweighs New Hampshire silver spoon. If the Republican controlled government would have moved our primary back 7 days to Super Tuesday, I would have been happy, but that's history. I find it amusing that you think that disenfranchising millions of voters due to a 7 day time period is somehow just.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. "Disenfranchise". Yousound like your governor, but you are not even close to my opinion.
Reread my posts on this subthread.

Florida created an enormous mess and did so with their eyes wide open. Now, you expect everyone to clean up the mess and pay for it, but you continue to insult everyone in the process. Nice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. RE: "Disenfranchise". Yousound like your governor, but you are not even close to my opinion.
The only thing that needs to be done to clean up the mess is for the DNC to suck up their pride and accept the primary results that have already been cast (at least in Florida). Running a new election will produce a less legitimate result then the previous election. I don't want a “do over”. I'm not asking anyone to pay for anything. If you were to read what the OP said and my support of that idea, you would understand we are not asking for anyone to pay. Put on your glasses please.

The election was clean and perfectly legitimate. If you hadn't noticed state election law was passed to move the primary date. The constitutional amendment that was on the ballot on January 29th was passed and will become law. If you are speaking of contractual law, for a contract to be legally binding on an individual, one generally needs to accept the terms of the agreement either verbally or through a signature and the voters of Florida did neither. That being said a political party can make whatever decisions they want concerning their members rights to vote. The party can chose to disenfranchise us, but that does not make the election illegal. The assault of reasoning (if that term can apply) why the the election should not be honored have also been weak.

First, some have argued that it would be unfair to honor the elections because not all names were on the ballots. This can be debunked by noting that it is the candidates responsibility to get on the states ballot. If they fail to fulfill the requirements of the state then they do not deserve to be on the ballot. Nonetheless, in Florida our ballot had Biden, Clinton, Dodd, Edwards, Gravel, Kucinich, Obama, and Richardson on the list. There is no reason why any person should debate this in regards to Florida's presidential preference primary.

Second, some have argued that voters didn't vote because they were told the elections would not count and they were not homeowners. I would first argue that in America, people tend to have the right to vote ingrained in their very being. Most do not accept the notion of being able to disqualify someones vote. Next, I would argue even in the event that the presidential preference vote would not count, it is the responsibility of every citizen to at least show up to voice their opinion on a state constitutional amendment, anything else is blatantly irresponsible. No matter if a homeowner or not, everyone has an interest in property taxes. If you own a home it affects your cost of living. If you rent, property taxes affect the cost of your rent. In Florida property taxes are the main source of revenue for the state and effect which public services will be available to all citizens. There is no excuse for not showing up.

Third, many argue that the candidates were not allowed to campaign in our state. I would first state that Florida passed no laws banning these individuals from entering our states. We would have welcomed them to our state and would have listen to their arguments as to why they should have been the nominee. The candidates made the decision to avoid us. Next I would point out that Floridians were bombarded by a myriad of television debates. We were able to read mounds of articles on the candidates through newspapers, magazines, and the Internet. There were discussions about the candidates on TV and the radio. We were perfectly capable of going on the Internet to read over the candidates websites and to view their campaign commercials and speeches on sites like youtube (were we were also bombard by Internet adversing by their campaigns).

I have yet to see one logical reason as to why our vote should not be represented or why a revote would be necessary. If the Democratic party is willing to pay for a revote, I will compromise with them and vote again, but I will see the results as far less representative then the original vote. My reasoning for this belief are based on a few factors, 1) any revote that occurs will disenfranchise all candidates with the exception of the two current front runners, 2) With the republican primary settled, a new vote will allow republicans the opportunity to tactically vote in our primary and skew the results in their favor, 3) the new vote has been suggested for around June and this leads me to believe the media will be highly bias towards whoever is in the lead at that particular time. Party officials and pundit will be droning that people should voice confidence in the leader rather then voting for their candidate of choice. Feel free to rebut.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Your question, my answer:
I have yet to see one logical reason as to why our vote should not be represented or why a revote would be necessary.


Because the primary was run with full knowledge that the Party would not recognize it. Some didn't vote as a result. Those people will not be represented.

I'm sorry that your state screwed you while you weren't watching. But, screw you they did. They created an incredible mess, and now they want to blame everyone but themselves.

We'll do our best to clean up your mess. You might try helping.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. RE: Your question, my answer:
Every election there are tons of people that are irresponsible enough to not take their civic duty seriously enough to get out and vote. This is not a reason to hold a new election. I find it funny that you keep trying to place blame on me, when as I have shown I had no voice in the decision, I did not support the decision, I didn't sign or agree to any contract that binds me, and I voted against the representatives from my district as well as the governor that played a part in the decision. In what fantasy world am I to blame for the result? Seriously, please humor me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. You support the decision that was made but refuse to accept the logical consequence.
We're not talking about people who didn't take their civic responsibility; we're talking about people who recognized the authority of the Party when they said that the Florida delegates would not be seated. Your argument is very odd -- it's as if people who showed up on the Wednesday following the election should have their vote counted simply because somebody told them it was okay.

The Florida primary was held outside the rules that the Florida delegation had approved. They had been told clearly and with finality that their delegates would not be seated. Florida is now aghast that breaking rules has the exact consequence that they were told. I find this stunning.

Nevertheless, we recognize the importance of both Michigan and Florida, so we're working toward a solution. Keep in mind, that no solution will be accepted unless both camps approve; you can be guaranteed that the results of the previous primary will not be acceptable to the Obama camp, and a caucus will not be acceptable to the Clinton camp. Now, I could sit here with my fingers in my ears screaming, "Caucus or nothing! Caucus or nothing!", but it will get me nowhere. Likewise, your mantra (and that of your Republican governor) of "Seat our delegates based on the unauthorized primary" will get you nowhere.

You can be part of the compromise, or you can join the chorus on both sides of those soon to be disappointed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. RE: You support the decision that was made but refuse to accept the logical consequence.
I didn't support the decision of the legislature to move the primary forward and break the rules of the DNC. I would however have supported a move to super Tuesday, being that it was acceptable within the rules and it is as close to a national primary as we could have had this year. A national closed primary day is what I feel the target ultimately is. I do however support the banning of electronic voting machines and a mandate for paper trails in my state. Maybe the fact that they were combined into one bill has you confused about my position?

I understand that the vote has to be acceptable to the credential committee, but if it is not seen as representative by voters of the state, what good is their satisfaction? In a republic the people who elect others to represent them hold ultimate power so our level of satisfaction will need to be dealt with either upfront or in November. The DNC can roll the dice all they want, but they will also have to deal with the repercussions come November, as will the rest of us. I hope you are blowing on those dice. Place your bets gentlemen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. At last. We agree:
I understand that the vote has to be acceptable to the credential committee, but if it is not seen as representative by voters of the state, what good is their satisfaction? In a republic the people who elect others to represent them hold ultimate power so our level of satisfaction will need to be dealt with either upfront or in November. The DNC can roll the dice all they want, but they will also have to deal with the repercussions come November, as will the rest of us. I hope you are blowing on those dice. Place your bets gentlemen.


Exactly exactly exactly. These are the comments that were being made clear back in ... November? ... about this horrible situation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #60
82. I wouldn't say we agree at all... (you want a revote and I don't)
The law passed may 1 2007 if I remember correctly, so which November are you referring to? 2007? 2006? Sure everyone can complain all they want in 2007 but the fact is it was law at that point and a vote on the bill could not be influenced. The republican government had no interest in changing law at that point. Please don't tell me you were expecting a mass grassroots effort by the voters of Florida to assemble, raise money, organize, run a campaign that would influence the government to write, debate, and pass legislation and then the government to act on that legislation to move the primary back 7 days in less then 3 months. You can't be serious.

I tired of your insanity. We will have to agree to disagree. Being that you are from neither of the states involved, feel free to keep your nose out of it. If you try to influence another states elections you are just making them less acceptable to the people of the state to begin with. Push and shout about something that does not concern you, and enjoy having McCain in 08.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #56
78. Seriously, what IS with Clinton boosters ignoring the facts?
It was abundantly, crystal clear that the primary would not result in seated delegates.

Why are her supporters so desperate to save their candidate's doomed campaign that they LIE or DENY the facts and endorse cheating?

Are they just clueless?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #78
84. RE: Seriously, what IS with Clinton boosters ignoring the facts?
I have already stated that I voted for someone other then Clinton. Sling mud all you want, but its far more telling about you then me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #52
91. Funny how you lay blame at the Republican's feet when every
Democrat in the legislature, save one, voted in favor of it. Even that law could not have kept the Democrats in Florida from holding a caucus that abided by the rules of the DNC that the Florida Reps on the rules committee supported.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. RE: Funny how you lay blame at the Republican's feet when every
1) Republicans represent my district in the state legislature so they are the ones I have to blame being that the represent me no matter how little I believe it and despite the fact that I voted against them.

2) My governor is a Republican, and he signed the bill into law, I didn't vote for him but he still represents me in government.

3) We are not a caucus state, and under no circumstances should we become one.

4) I also place blame on the state Democrats who agreed to rules that disenfranchised people that had no say in the decision.

5) I also blame the DNC for agreeing to rules that would disenfranchise people that have no say in the decision.

6) I also place blame on the DNC for carrying out punishment on rules they should have never held as just to begin with.

7) I place blame on Howard Dean for publicly stating that the elections would not count, which gives a few people a twisted argument as to why the election should not count.

8) I place blame on all of the Democratic candidates that didn't stand up for democracy, and allowed it to happen.

There's plenty of blame to go around...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #47
77. Such LIES. You don't get to cheat.
Get the fuck over it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #77
83. RE: Such LIES. You don't get to cheat.
Very persuasive points you have there. When you have an argument formed in that tiny little mind of yours feel free to get back to me douchebag.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. So... when Florida abandoned the party and forfieted its votes...
You said nothing. Of course, back then, Clinton was the presumptive nominee.

Now that Hillary is losing, you want your votes back.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. RE: So... when Florida abandoned the party and forfieted its votes...
First, I do not check what my representatives local, state, and national do on a daily basis and I doubt you do either. I review their actions periodically. Sometime after the bill passed but before the election I became aware of the violation of Democratic party rules. As I have stated before, I would have been happy if the Republican controlled government would have moved the date back 7 days to super Tuesday (February 5) to avoid all of this, but that was not in their interest. Aside from violent revolution, I don't see what you were expecting me to do. I voted against my representatives and they still won easily. I happen to live in a pocket of red in a more blue area of the state. In regards to Clinton, as I stated up page I didn't vote for Clinton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theredpen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Do you check the national news daily?
"First, I do not check what my representatives local, state, and national do on a daily basis and I doubt you do either."

So this snuck up on you? And after it was national news, you lost Bill Nelson's phone number?

Right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Florida22ndDistrict Donating Member (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. RE: Do you check the national news daily?
No I do not check the national news daily. Some mornings I catch a portion of the Washington Journal on CSPAN, some mornings I read a portion of the newspaper, sometimes I read the Internet, some evenings I watch Democracy Now, some times I catch a few documentaries on LinkTV, sometimes I read science journals or technical newsletters, occasionally I will watch MSM but I do not have a taste for it. I am not loyal to any media outlet or any particular talking head. By the way, by time it became national news it had already past the state legislature and was on its way to being signed by the governor if I remember correctly (it may have even been the day the governor signed it into law).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ghost of Tom Joad Donating Member (651 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
41. The reason people voted in large numbers
wasn't because of a primary beauty contest it was the lousy amendment to lower property taxes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
73. And even then, FL was one of the few states this year ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Obamanaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
46. How about letting your vote count in Nov when you vote against
all the incumbent dem state legislators who voted for this change. Please don't tell me that it is a repub controlled legislature, I know that. However, the dems did not even make a token stand against the measure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
not_too_L8 Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
50. your votes will be apportioned by the DNC ...n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
61. Waah, Waah, Waah
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 10:22 PM by RamboLiberal
You knew when you voted it wouldn't count. The candidates were told it wouldn't count. Take it up with your governor and legislature. What don't you Clinton people not understand - rules are rules?!

Only thing more amazing are the Clintonites who argue to count the Soviet style primary in Michagan!

I live in Pennsylvania - thie is the first time I can remember having my vote count in a presidential primary. By the time they got to us it was usually over! I wanted my state to move up though not illegally. Stupid me!

You fools in Florida and Michigan wanted the glory but all you got was the shaft. Too frickin' bad!

Revote or shut up!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
63. Florida voting machne perfected 4 years ago
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
65. More repugs voted in FL than Dems did, because Dems knew no delegates were at stake
What about the people who would have voted but didn't because they were told there were no delegates at stake?

Disenfranchised.


I'm sorry but Florida has had it's share of fucked up elections, that well has run dry.


Hold a "do over" primary or just deal with the rules as they were when you voted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. Obvious to most.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
66. Might want to ask why Crist, Nelson, and others f'ed it up for you. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
68. 2012
Edited on Sun Mar-09-08 10:39 PM by quantass
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
71. Your post doesn't really make the case, since it's not wholly truthful.
Just last night on CNN, the normally dim Bill Schneider managed to accidentally speak a bit of truth, in response to some spin from your Republican Gov. Charlie Crist.

CNN, Sat evening...
    Florida Governor Charlie Crist, Republican: "Ideally we want the votes that were already cast to be counted. That's just the logical thing to do. On January the 29th, we had a record turnout."

    Bill Schneider, stating the bleeding obvious... "Well, yes, but there was something odd about the Florida and Michigan results. More Republicans than Democrats voted. In 24 of 29 primaries that have already been held this year, the opposite was true... more Democrats voted. Apparently, a lot of Florida and Michigan Democrats stayed home, because they were told the primary wouldn't count.
So, you may feel the FLorida election was free and fair, but I'm sure hundreds of thousands of your fellow FLoridians have a different opinion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
76. Hillary fought for yo first and is continuing to fight to make sure your vote is counted!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. No, she's fighting to cheat.
Thankfully, she'll lose - as she should.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-09-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. HA HA---You know she is fighting for them to be enfranchised--so live with it !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. Enfranchised? Sounds like she's promising them "a McDonalds in every neighborhood."
Are you hoping for a cabinet post in the Clinton administration? Secretary of Brown Nosing, no doubt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
85. Let's talk about who is really disenfranchizing voters--hint--it's NOT Obama
Hillary could care less about disenfranchizing voters--in every state. This is why she is campaigning to try and flip Super Delegates and even the vote of Regular Delegates. She's trying to bypass the ENTIRE system so she secures the nomination for herself. Bottom line-she doesn't "care" about Michigan or Florida or any other state--all she really cares about is the super delegates and regular delegates--in short, she's trying to disenfranchize EVERY voter in this nation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. Why do you Hillary-haters have to poison every word about Florida voters?
Have you no control over this? Sadly, this out-of-control vice, which y'all appear to be a slave to, which you attempt to paint everywhere, merely helps to disenfranchise the half a million Floridians that voted for Obama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
86. Fl here!
I voted...I informed myself...both candidates were on the ballot..there was zero campaigning(except Obama breaking the rules and running National ads)...I voted and I want it to count! FL only....not speaking for Mich..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
susankh4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
87. Here's to Florida's Voters!
Paws crossed that you have your say!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. Yes indeed. Let's hope that find a way that's fair to all concerned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
93. Hillary supporters getting behind a republican governor that wants to destroy this party
Edited on Mon Mar-10-08 09:24 AM by Pawel K
no way, that can't possibly be. I mean clearly, this republican asshole just wants all your votes to count. That's all he cares about, there must be nothing strategic going on here.

:sarcasm:

You guys have no problems destroying this party as long as you win, huh? You people are probably the same idiots that supported lieberman.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
94. Learn how to vote for Dems that don't get bullied around by Repugs so easily.
Edited on Mon Mar-10-08 10:06 AM by smiley_glad_hands
Your vote should not count. My state followed the rules, yours did not. What you wanna cheat now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pawel K Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. Cheating is ok. Throwing your party under the bus is okay. Lying is okay.
Edited on Mon Mar-10-08 10:43 AM by Pawel K
as long as Hillary wins. Don't you get it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
here_is_to_hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
96. You should have played by the rules then....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HeraldSquare212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-10-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
98. Sorry - the Clinton campaign thinks only secret ballots count, so the mail-in proposal would break
their rules.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC