My Friends McLame will win the GE if we can not mend both sides of the party.

[stop the bleeding]

I don't care who you support, but the fact is both sides needs the other no matter who gets the nomination.

People we WILL LOSE the GE if we can not bring both sides together and forget about a "Dream ticket" to make this happen

maddiejoan and I were talking about some way to mend this split in the DEM party between O and C supporters. For the record maddiejoan supports HRC and I support O.

excerpts of our discussion:

me:
C/O or O/C ticket would be ideal
for uniting the party for the GE.

Two things though

1) I doubt either C or O would accept the role as VP in fact O said so in the last day or so

2) They both are not as strong as My Friends McLame on National Security, I don't care what either side says about this, we all know they both need a VP that helps compliment them on this issue along with a few others.

So I know what you're saying but I see these two reasons as large hurdles to overcome, and this makes me really worried about losing the GE in a year where should have had a lock on it. I just don't see an easy fix to this mess.


maddiejoan:
You raise a valid point
you really do --and from my own standpoint --I see Wesley Clark as a good choice for either Clinton or Obama as well.

For Obama --Wes Clark has the added bonus of being able to possibly bring Clinton supporters back into the fold, bring in the South and also has the National Security creds.

I also think Clark would work well for Clinton, and his energy and charisma and stance on Iraq might appeal to Obama supporters.

Clark as VP would be a good 'unity' choice


me:
God maddiejoan that is a good idea!
probably one of the best I have heard yet. I need to think on this one and explore it a bit more, I know people have issues with Clark as well, but people have issues with just about everything.


maddiejoan:
Thanks
I've been ruminating on this one for months.

I could actually support Obama/Clark enthusiastically. (actually one of the few things that would be make me enthused over Obama)

Having a high profile Clinton supporter who just happens to be a General would solidify the base and render McCain obsolete.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4987396&mesg_id=4987396">Don't like "The Dream Team"?

So my question is this how do we mend this split in the DEM party if either HRC or O ends being the nominee? I think this is a decent fix for Obama if he gets it and being to bring the HRC supporters back into the fold. However I do not see a way YET if HRC is the nominee.

I am open to reasonable suggestions on ways to fix this in the event whichever one is the nominee.

PLEASE LET'S TRY ONLY HAVING RATIONAL RESPONSES FROM SUPPORTERS OF EITHER SIDE - I'll hold my breath on this one

Please discuss.

[DFW]

1. I'm with both of you

I'm fine with either HRC or BHO op top of the ticket.
I'm also VERY comfortable with Wes Clark as VP. I know
him slightly, and am always bowled over by how quick he
is on just about everything. The last time I saw him, we
were talking about the prospect of Cheneybush attacking
Iran, and some kid interrupted to ask a question about
molecular biology, which Wes answered without blinking, and
turned back to me to get on with the Iran question (this
was one of the rare times I disagreed with him--while we
both agreed that Cheneybush WANTED to invade Iran, Wes
thought they would go through with it, and I did not,
citing the traditional Republican reluctance to attack
someone that they know from the start might shoot back).

The only thing I can't offer you (that you did request) is
a rational response from "either side." As a long-time
(and very frustrated, but over it) supporter of an Al Gore
resurrected candidacy, I'm on neither side, but have had it
UP TO HERE with all the maniacal screaming and yelling, and
the onslaught of some of the most hateful posts this side of
Freeperdom, and all ostensibly to "support" either HRC or BHO.
Hysterical posts like the ones I've seen support no one but
Republicans looking to point to us as nut cases, where I have
always thought the far right had a permanent majority of those,
if not (apparently and unfortunately) exclusive rights.

[maddiejoan]

6. I think HRC and BO

are fantastic candidates who either need each other --or need Clark.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Thepricebreaker]

2. Its Hillary dont you get it? If it was Obama vs whoever - this would never be happening...

[maddiejoan]

3. Yeah!

How dare Hillary have a statistically equal number of voters!
(and higher number of Democratic voters)

[wileedog]

4. The problem is

Hillary just marched Clark out on TV and had him declare that Obama wasn't ready.

That's going to be an awfully popular soundbite in the GE if this is the ticket.

(I like it a lot otherwise though)

[stop the bleeding]

7. this idea may fix that

Petition the DNC to have Wes Clark give the keynote address at what looks to be an inevitable brokered convention.
Have him make his case for bringing home the Troops and have him speak about both Clinton and Obama in glowing terms.

edit: link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4987396&mesg_id=4987396

[stop the bleeding]

5. Your missing the point

Regardless of how we got in this mess pointing fingers and yelling at each other only ensures a McLame victory in November. We need to start looking past our differences and finding some common ground for unity, cause if we don't we will lose what should have been a lock.


I am not looking how we got here, I am looking at how do we go from here to winning November.

[Swamp Rat]

8. k&r

[Kokonoe]

9. Wesley Clark agreed with Hillary's experience remarks

regarding Obama's qualifications. Sorry, but that makes the Idea a mute point.

[stop the bleeding]

post#7 addresses that issue

mind you I am not saying this is a silver bullet, but we need to as a unified party to find our footing before November

[zalinda]

10. And what if you don't like either of them

I don't think either of them have the juice to win the GE. Sorry, but I see big negatives in both of them, and Clark won't help.

I'm not even sure I'm going to vote for President this election. I hate Obama, and dislike Clinton. And every person who hates that crappy fake preacher cadence that Obama does, will cringe at the thought of having to listen to him for 4 years. And everyone who listened to the media trashing Clinton, will not want to vote for her either.

Whether you like it or not McCain will look good to a large portion of the voting public who don't pay much attention to the details. And it could swing big time in his favor depending on who the repubs pick for VP.

zalinda

[Swamp Rat]

11. Do you like Clark? n/t

[zalinda]

I don't know anything about him

VP's don't do much anyway, so why bother. Cheney was/is only important because he was put in to pull the strings, otherwise VP's don't count. I can't see either of the 2 dems giving Clark any power, any way.

zalinda

[Swamp Rat]

19. "VP's don't do much anyway, so why bother." - Oh really...

I think you should bother to learn more about how our government works.

from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice_President_of_the_United_States

(snip)

Duties

The formal powers and role of the vice president are limited by the Constitution to becoming President in the event of the death or resignation of the President and acting as the presiding officer of the U.S. Senate. As President of the Senate, the Vice President has two primary duties: to cast a vote in the event of a Senate deadlock and to preside over and certify the official vote count of the U.S. Electoral College. For example, in the first half of 2001, the Senators were divided 50-50 between Republicans and Democrats and Dick Cheney's tie-breaking vote gave the Republicans the Senate majority. (See 107th United States Congress.)

(snip)

[zalinda]

29. So are you saying that I should vote for Clark, the VP

and hope that Clinton / Obama drops dead?

zalinda

[Whisp]

12. we should pay attention to who McCain chooses as VP.

THAT will be the President sometimes during the next four years. Hanky panky of the worst kind.

I just don't find McCain as a real contender - he has little leadership qualities and style and seems almost reluctant to the role he has been handed. I think he will drop out (supposed health reasons would be the excuse) and his VP will take over.

and we will have to thank Hillary for this.

[stop the bleeding]

13. it will be someone that can bring the hard core conservatives into the fold

and also this person should be strong on the economy and domestic issues.

Who fits that description?

[maddiejoan]

14. Does he wear magic panties?

[Emit]

15. Kick. Let's not let this one get buried

:hi:

I'd still like to hear what others have to say on the matter.

[stop the bleeding]

22. Forget it

I am coming to the conclusion that there is no magic bullet to get us out of this mess, I have a bad feeling that McLame could win the GE.

[Emit]

26. stb

Hopefully, the general electorate is not like DU -- and most of DU will be voting Dem no matter whether it's HRC or BHO who get the nod. A lot of the "I won't vote for so and so in the GE!" crap is just posturing and hyperbole (and likely some freeperish BS thrown in the mix just to keep the shit stirred up and us off balance).

In any case, I do not want to jinx us Dems, but, I have a good feeling that there will be a Dem in the White House next year. Our voting turnout is into record high numbers -- it's time for change -- it's literally off the charts. The repukes are shot -- their turn out pales in comparison to the numbers HRC and BHO are drawing. People are defecting from their ranks in record numbers and have been over the past 4 years or more.

McCain is not an option. I mean, look at him -- the big guns in his own party didn't even want him as the nominee. He's the default bozo candidate.

:toast:

[stop the bleeding]

27. Thanks Emit

for bringing me back to reality and out of the microcosm of DU GDP

:toast:

[mculator]

16. In case of Hillary.

BO should be her first choice, Maxine Waters a close second.

[mculator]

17. In case of Barack.

Hillary should be his first choice, Joe Biden his second.

[mculator]

18. Therefore,

Dream ticket of C/O or O/C should be ideal.

Sorry for the three post marathon...as a dream ticket supporter I wanted to kick all discussions of the topic :)

[stop the bleeding]

21. Biden would be better but not as good as Clark nt

[stop the bleeding]

20. Nope BO has already said he won't accept the role of VP

"Well, you know, I think it’s premature. You won’t see me as a vice presidential candidate -- you know, I’m running for president. We have won twice as many states as Senator Clinton, and have a higher popular vote, and I think we can maintain our delegate count."


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/obamasays-novp.html

[maddiejoan]

28. meh

He also said he wouldn't run in 2008.

[cbayer]

23. DU is not a cross section of the real world.

I truly believe that most democrats and many independents will happily vote for either candidate.

I also truly believe that most democrats and many independents would be thrilled with an 0/C or C/O ticket.

Although I know a lot of very dedicated supporters of both candidates, I do not see the hate against the candidates that is displayed daily here out in the real world.

Most rational people believe that both of these candidates are great, feel lucky to have both of them and recognize that their policy differences are negligible.

I am not afraid of losing the GE. Not one little bit.

[Pab Sungenis]

24. We can't unite.

Hillary has alienated Obama supporters, even the lukewarm ones like me, with her scorched earth and "I win or no one wins" tactics. Obama people will never unite behind Hillary.

Meanwhile, she has demonized Obama so much that I doubt most of the support she still has remaining will ever unite behind Obama in the general election.

Hillary has destroyed any hope of party unity, and thus probably destroyed the party altogether.

[Gore1FL]

25. I think the party is closer to mending than it appears here

DU has extreme supporters on both sides who fail to listen to reasoned arguments from both sides.

Both candidates have a decent shot at the general election, and I think DU reprsents the epicenter of the division.

[theredpen]

30. This is simply false

I have ACTUAL DATA posted here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4992323&mesg_id=4992323

Clinton or Obama will win, but Obama will win more.

[OneBlueSky]

31. whoever is the nominee won't matter . . . the fix is already in . . .

"it's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes" . . .

and the fact that the Democratic Congress did NOTHING to reclaim the election process from Republican corporations ensures that they will get away with it yet again . . . just as they did in 2000 and 2004 . . .

who gets the most votes simply won't matter . . . because the tabulators will kick out whatever numbers are needed in crucial states to ensure another Republican victory . . .

and the Dems have no one to blame but themselves . . .