Why was South Carolina allowed to change its primary to an earlier date and wasn't even sanctioned?

[saracat]

Doesn't anyone find that curious? If after all, rules are rules, shouldn't they be equally applied?

[ProSense]

1. You think Hillary lost because of the date? Why did Puerto Rico change to a primary from a caucus?

n/t

[saracat]

6. It isn't about who won. It is about "Why" they weren't sanctioned

and FL and MI werte. Why were they "allowed" to change their primary date?

[movonne]

18. I'm not sure about this(you can only remember so much) but back

when that was all going on there was something different about those states moving up..but no sure what it was...have you tried to research this...

[suston96]

8. Why caucus changed to primary for PR? That's easy: because caucuses are undemocratic....

...forcing voters to physically attend a caucus is a violation of voting rights.

[PATRICK]

19. The main reason

that is undeniable is that they are vastly unprepared for huge caucuses. Puerto Rico normally has high voter participation. If that became a caucus scenario they simply are overwhelmed. I don't think either side interpreting this conspiratorially or negatively is doing anything but insulting Puerto Rico itself.
Being late in line means it may be intensely contested and disruptive of their society and the fairest means employed would be their traditionally high ballot turnout.

This caucus thing because caucuses favor Obama and ballots favor Clinton has more than a hint of saying both methods(therefore everything) is rigged and unfair. If you want to reform this process after for everyone and not the winning methodology of a particular team let's start the suggestions. All these concerns will be swiftly shoved under the rug for 2012 or 2016 and the bickering will hypocritically begin all over again.

[efhmc]

2. Didn't it have to do with the size of the state?

[dsc]

3. It was a deal

we wanted diverse states and SC was chosen along with NV. Senate Majority leader Reid was the driving force behind NV while Rep Clayborne was the driving force behind SC.

[crispini]

15. yep

part of the effort to get more diversity earlier in the primary schedule.

[LisaL]

4. Yes, I find that curious.

When was SC primary supposed to be?

[dkf]

5. Any state that wanted to go early asked the DNC for permission

SC was picked along with NV.

The DNC was trying to fix the perception that all the early states were white white white.

[LulaMay]

11. Why didn't they help FL knowing state Rethugs were changing the date, & Dems couldnt over-ride it?

Brilliant plan to disenfranchise a state where we fought against that before.

Dean and party leaders are failures, failed us all.

We all pay for their short sightedness.

[dkf]

17. DNC tried to talk to FL, but FL wouldn't communicate.

And FL moved after all the arrangements for the early voting states were made and after FL had agreed to abide by the new schedule.

All states could have disregarded their stated promise, but only MI and FL did so thinking they were "too important" so they could do whatever they damned well please.

[LulaMay]

32. That is NOT TRUE. SEN NELSON practically begged Dean to help, he wouldn't. Nelson SUED DEAN.

[madfloridian]

34. They refused to listen to Dean and the DNC. Why are you spreading lies like this?

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[LulaMay]

41. I have read, seen interviews w/ Sen Nelson. Dems couldn't over-ride Rethug votes,

however it happened.

He tried to get Dean to speak to him, help, then had to sue him.

I believe Sen. Nelson.

The FL vote to change to date, and fact that Dems tried to stop it is enough for me.

[dkf]

53. Please document where Sen. Nelson tried to stop Reps from moving date.

I haven't seen any proof.

Otherwise you have no credibility on this issue.

[Orangepeel]

66. Oh, Senator Nelson did no such thing!

The Florida party was antagonistic from the start.

[movonne]

22. I wish you would stop saying it was Deans fault...do you read, or look

at tv...It is just stupid to keep repeating lies...

[LulaMay]

28. He's the CHAIRMAN, and Sen Nelson asked him to help because Rethugs were controlling the date switch

he didn't.....Sen Nelson had to SUE HIM, he sued Dean.

[madfloridian]

38. Dean said they bypassed the DNC and went to the media for attention.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1888

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Hippo_Tron]

60. Because Florida didn't compalin until 2007 when it was too late

Everyone including Florida and Michigan agreed to the rules about early status back in 2005 when they were being drawn out. Then when the plan was in place, Florida and Michigan screwed the DNC at the 11th hour. That is not behavior that should be rewarded.

[saracat]

12. Well we lobbied for AZ , which was alot more representaive of the west than Nevada and

Reid got awarded the early slot because of who he was rather than the merit of Nevada being more representative. It may have been the same with Clyburn but I still do not think it was right for some states to be allowed change and not others.

[dkf]

20. HI did also. We have the most diverse population in the nation.

AZ and HI know how to follow rules, MI and FL don't.

[Exilednight]

7. Because they did it within the rules, as opposed to against the rules.

[LulaMay]

9. I've never felt good about how Dean did this whole thing. It stunk from the beginning.

FL Dems couldn't do anything about it to override the Rethugs there who wanted the date changed.

but good old Hward, he didn't care, he wouldn't hardly TRY to help them, find a solution.

No, he just goes and ahead and entirely disenfranchises them.

Clearly he, other party leaders, didn't believe they'd ever have to confront it, that they secure an Obama win, partly with that strategy of discounting FL votes (and Teddy, Johnny, et al trying to give him the party crown far, far, far in advance. How nice).

What first rate imbeciles.

[mckeown1128]

33. Umm... The FL Democratic party supported changing the date..

but nice attempt at revisionism...

[madfloridian]

46. Read this.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1888

And since you are deliberately spreading false info, I will say good by to you.

[suston96]

10. Waaaaah! Michigan and Florida didn't say pretty please like Nevada and South Carolina...

Don't you see how ridiculous this all sounds? Don't you realize how the rest of world is laughing at us?

[LulaMay]

14. You people who post this repetitive, juvenile reply make this board look ridiculous.

like it's inhabited by 8 year olds.

[rateyes]

13. Yes, rules are rules, and the DNC voted on the schedule

beforehand, and FL and MI Democrats voted in favor of the rules allowing NV and SC going before Super Tuesday. Those rules say that Iowa is first caucus, and NH is first primary, and two other states, on a rotating basis can go before Super Tuesday. FL will gets its chance to do that. MI will, also. There weren't sanctions on SC, because they abided by the rules that were in place (to which everyone agreed.)

[LulaMay]

16. We have a CHAIRMAN & LEADERS who refused to help FL Dems when Rethugs changed the date

wonder what their motivation was?

To do something so STUPID as disenfranchise a state where we fought against our voters there being DISENFRANCHISED.

[dkf]

21. FL Dems weren't asking for help. They weren't even speaking to the DNC on this.

[LulaMay]

23. That is a LIE. The leading Senator practically begged Dean to help work it out, and then had to SUE

[dkf]

50. Gelber Minority Leader in FL House admits they wanted the move.

"Much of the back and forth and criticism of Florida by the DNC has been focused on the conduct of the Democratic legislators who – some argue – did not fight against the early primary bill. Yes, there is gambling in Casablanca. Of course we didn't fight against the bill. When the Republican leadership made it clear that this was their priority, Democrats had two choices: support something their constituents support and that was going to become law anyway; or support the DNC Rules Committee enforcement of a primary system that our constituents revile. For me, this decision was easy."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

[LulaMay]

25. Senator Nelson if you wondered. Call his office, go ahead and ask him.

[madfloridian]

31. HEY....read this and stop spreading lies.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[avrdream]

49. I remember reading those journals mad.

Someone (I don't remember if it was you) said that all of this would HELP Hillary Clinton. Way back then, I was confused and asked how the heck it could HELP Hillary Clinton. No good answer was given and now we see that it actually ISN'T HELPING Hillary Clinton.

For me, that was the plan all along. Hurt Hillary, help Barry.

[dkf]

51. They wanted to break the rules for Hillary.

Dean said no.

Not Dean's fault.

[Inuca]

24. I do not know all the details, but

based on what I know, it was discussed and eventually agreed by the DNC to have a larger number of RELATIVELY SMALL states (to allow for more retail style and relatively cheaper campaigning, similar to IA and NH) before the "big guys" get into the game. Also they wanted these states to be more representative of the democratic demographics, and that's part of the reason NV and SC were selected. I am sure there was a lot of backroom deals that also affected the final decision, but AFAIK the two points above were the main official rationale for the decision. MI and FL are in the "big guys" category. So, as others I think already pointed out, SC most definitely played by the rules.

[LulaMay]

26. Read my comments above yours. I know the details of FL. It stinks. Dean screwed it up.

[madfloridian]

29. That is a lie. Florida leaders did it to the people. Deliberately .

And they are not man enough to own up to it, and they keep lying.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[LulaMay]

36. Fl Dems couldn't over-ride the Republicans. Nelson tried getting Dean to help. Bottom line.

[madfloridian]

42. No, Dean said they bypassed the DNC

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1888

[Inuca]

47. WOW!! n/t

[donheld]

37. Are you from/in Florida

where's your links with proof for any of this?

[LulaMay]

44. Sen. Nelson has been interviewd on tv recent days. Voting record is fact. Look it up yourself.

i have friends in FL, yes,

[donheld]

52. Everybody has friends in FL.

That doesn't mean Sen Nelson tells the truth.

[TheDoorbellRang]

55. Your argument would be a little more believable if you ever used links

as madfloridian has and does. Just repeating what you "believe" and "know" over and over without any evidence will never convince anyone of your POV.

So show your details. In detail. Or quit catapulting the propaganda.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

70. Everyone hates me today. I think I will cry.

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

27. They got permission from the DNC because they were leapfrogged

by FL and MI.

So did the other states in the pre window. They worked with the DNC and did not thumb their noses at it.

[Emit]

30. saracat, it started a while ago, and, it was put out by the DNC, McAuliffe in '04

( this entry is from 2006):

~snip~

After the 2004 election, former DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe appointed a 40-member Commission on Presidential Nomination Timing and Scheduling to review the presidential nominating calendar. On March 11, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee adopted the commission's recommendation to include more states. The recommendations made today, and additional important recommendations the RBC is expected to develop tomorrow, will be considered and voted upon by all DNC members at the DNCs summer meeting August 19, in Chicago.

DNC Chairman Howard Dean made the following statement following the vote:

"From the beginning, I have strongly believed in the importance of broadening participation in the nomination process to better reflect the rich racial, regional, and economic diversity of the Democratic Party and ensure that our Party produces the strongest possible nominee. The Rules and Bylaws Committee has worked hard to achieve that goal while pacing the process more evenly and balancing the need for change with Iowa's and New Hampshire's important, traditional roles. This has been a long, thoughtful and rigorous process. I want to thank the members of the Rules and Bylaws Committee for their hard work. They have conducted this process with the highest integrity; I support this final recommendation to add Nevada and South Carolina in the pre-window period. I also want to thank all of the states who applied, their participation has been absolutely critical in ensuring the rigor and integrity of this process."

Paid for and authorized by the Democratic National Committee, www.democrats.org. This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/07/new_hampshire_r.html

That link has updates ... go to the bottom and work your way up to see how this played out. I know that in NV, the Democratic Party had to submit a video and proposal in order to be considered as one of the two states to be moved up in the calendar

edit spelling!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

35. Um, I think the key word is "allowed" nt

[BooScout]

39. The DNC allowed 'exceptions'

The DNC cherry picked which states they wanted to allow exceptions for. It seems they have their own agenda and that agenda seems to be deciding who the nominee is.

[madfloridian]

45. Not true. 4 states were in the pre-window....

THEY got permission.

[saltpoint]

40. The campaigns competing for that state's delegates raised no objection

to anyone on any grounds.

No. I don't find it especially curious.

What I think is curious is the percentage lead Obama enjoyed among Afro American voters prior to Bill Clinton's "Jesse Jackson" remarks, compared to the final tally of Afro American support Obama received.

Again, I think Congressman Clyburn is the go-to guy for insight into South Carolina politics.

[madfloridian]

43. saracat, you know better. You are politically knowledgeable...

and shouldn't start stuff like that.

[Inuca]

48. I sadly agree :-( n/t

[saracat]

54. Actually, I do know the process. I am not sure I agree with how it played out.

I recall the selection process and it seemed to me to be very politcal. I also remember the GOP picking an earlier date as well. It seems that forced Floridas hand in this. But even if that wasn't true, and you may disagree, I do not think Dean did a good job with this.This ought not to have been "allowed to happen" no matter what the circumstances. The buck stops at Dean's desk as he is the DNC Chair and had an obligation to settle this. He obviously couldn't.

[Inuca]

57. I agree that Dean may have played

this whole mess better. I am not sure exactly about the how, I know too little about the kind of dealings and haggling that is probably involved. I do not think he is fully to blame, I am sure he is doing his best not to be partisan in any way, but he could have done better.

[madfloridian]

58. Please explain how if he worked within the process of the rules.

I would like a link and source, but I don't know.

[Inuca]

64. I do not know

You obviously know MUCH more about this. I may be wrong, I was expressing more of a gut feeling than an informed opinion (because I am not informed enough). All I am saying is that there must have been a way to avoid this horrid mess. This assumes a certain amount of good will from al parts involved, which most likely and unfortunately was not present.

[madfloridian]

68. The state party leaders for Hillary could have avoided it easily.

But now they are becoming large and in charge again. Fear works, terror works, ugly ads work.

[madfloridian]

61. What "should" have happened?

Please be specific.

I am very disappointed in the attacks you used to make on how Dean was hurting your party in AZ, when actually that was not true at all.

I think since our party is being ripped apart now by your candidate who making her own rules....that you need to be specific. I have been, you should as well.

[Hippo_Tron]

65. Florida and Michigan didn't complain when Dean was taking applications for early status

They complained in 2007 long after it had been done.

If Florida and Michigan were pissed off about Iowa and New Hampshire's early status they should've gotten together back in 2005 with the other 46 states and all agreed to hold their primary on the same day as the Iowa Caucus. Dean would've had no choice but to give up the status of Iowa and New Hampshire.

Instead Florida and Michigan decided to be attention whores and screw the DNC at the 11th hour. The DNC's credibility is important and people don't seem to realize that.

[kananikui]

56. I'm confused

If DNC Chair Dean wants to have a more inclusive 50 state representation in the nomination process, why penalize the voters in FL and MI? Why not just penalize those senators who are superdelegates and voted for the changed dates? Take their vote away from them and allow the voters choices and voices be heard? Wouldn't that un-disenfranchise the voters and punish the appropriate parties?

[madfloridian]

59. Maybe you have not researched. I have. Here you go.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Think I exaggerate about Florida's attitude? Here's a county chairperson's rant against Dean.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1827

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

Details on how Florida worked with the GOP to set the early primary date.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1617

Nobody sued Terry McAuliffe when he said Michigan's delegates would not get near Boston.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1638

Nelson and Levin of Michigan file the bill today. It's getting deeper
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1741

My postings about the heartbreak of the Florida primary fiasco.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1607

Florida Dems at convention have button that says "Screw Dean"...very classy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1608

Senate leader ponders suing 'rogue states' over primary
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1527

[Orangepeel]

67. In hindsight, it would have been good if the penalty was stripping the superdelegates

That would have punished the people responsible. But the penalty was decided upon when no one thought it would make a difference. The states were warned, ignored the warning, and campaigns planned their strategies (or should have) accordingly. It isn't fair to change it now.

[madfloridian]

62. In fact I posted about how they went to the DNC for permission.

I will see if I can find it.

[Orangepeel]

63. States parties were given an opportunity to apply to move their primary earlier

South Carolina and Nevada were chosen by the national party. Florida didn't even apply.