Are you disturbed by the racist subtext of the SNL skit last night?

[Big Blue Marble]

In this skit you have a white man in blackface demeaning a black man. The black man is depicted as
uppity black man who overreached his level of competency; who is in over his head. In his desperation,
he can only be saved by the very smart white women. Over and over she must save him from himself.

Then there was the jab at Al Sharpton. And the assumption, that in office Obama would appoint other
blacks to office regardless of their fitness for the position. Remind you a little of reconstruction?

How does this skit not harken back to the black stereotypes depicted in the 20's, 30's, and 40's in movies?
Blacks are after all dumb, but nice. And they better know that they have no ability to function in
a position of power or authority,

[annie1]

1. lolololol.

[Big Blue Marble]

16. So even the discussion of possible racist subtext is funny to you?

Demean what you do not want to address.

[annie1]

38. when i see that avatar, and your post is among literally hundreds...

saying obama is being victimized it's hard to take seriously even if yours is a serious post.

[Big Blue Marble]

46. I am not saying that Obama per se is being victimized.

Why do you jump to that conclusion? I saying that all black people have been historically demeaned in this
same revolting way in our past. Did you see "Gone With The Wind,"

White men dressing in blackface and mocking black men are a legacy of our racial past. Why would
you be so quick to minimize my concern?

[annie1]

47. i told you why i jumped to that conclusion. : ).

[Big Blue Marble]

55. Am i to assume from your response then

that you are not concerned about racism whether overt or subvert? Your only concern
is to elect Hillary Clinton, not matter what the cost. Do you really think she can be elected without
the support of the AA community?

Well, she cannot. So, even in the expedient interests of your partisanship, one would assume you
might show a little concern for a show that goes over the edge in demeaning a viable black candidate
with an undertone of racial stereotypes.

[annie1]

58. now THAT is a big assumption. i haven't commented on any of those things.

please simmer and stop your imagination running wild.

[Big Blue Marble]

64. My assumption is based

on your lack of response. All you need do it speak up. It will not hurt your candidate even a tiny little bit
for you to speak against racism implied or overt. It might even strengthen her.

On the other hand, do not look now. Your partisanship is showing big time.

[Ka hrnt]

71. Yeah....

My first thought on the OP was, "You have GOT to be kidding me...." :shrug:

[DS1]

89. If it's not about Obama, then it should be in regular GD

otherwise, of course people are going to assume you're talking about Obama specifically.

[Emit]

22. Your response shows such insensitivity to the OPer, who has a legitimate question

and concern, and put it into a reasoned perspective. I would reconsider such knee-jerk reaction on the OP, lest others may think you are a latent racist.

[annie1]

36. sorry, maybe i was tainted by a previous snl post that said we should all...

boycott b/c they were pro-hillary. maybe this board is just getting to me with all of the posts protecting obama the sacred cow. i've been watching snl for a long time and i've seen them have black people play white people and white people play black people. my knee-jerk reaction was based on the multiple posts that are ridiculous, so even if this one wasn't, it's sort of like the boy who cried wolf, even if it wasn't the OP crying wolf before, when their might really be a wolf it's hard to take seriously among all crying foul in this place.

[Emit]

37. It is hard to remain objective in GD: P

Can you point me to all of the posts protecting Obama the sacred cow? I always seem to miss those.

[annie1]

39. you can start with the post saying hillary should drop out and not run against obama...

even though almost 1/2 of all democrats voting have voted for her.

[Emit]

44. And that implies they think he a sacred cow?

Or is that your interpretation? :shrug: I'm not sure I follow, but I will try to find the thread to see what was said.

[Maddy McCall]

2. LOL. This is satire, right?

[annie1]

7. they're getting more bizarre by the minute.

[Big Blue Marble]

11. So you think it is funny to see a white man in black face

making fun of a black man? How many years did this country have to suffer through the outrage of that in
shameful past. I am very uncomfortable that you as an avid Hillary supporter do not call this out.
Is your partisanship so blind, that you defend any behavior regardless of what lines it crosses?

Mock my post all you want. You are the one who looks insensitive.

[Joe the Revelator]

19. Yeah, you're really reaching here

There are much more important battles to waste a post on.

[Big Blue Marble]

32. Thanks for you concerns about rationing my posts.

Race is a component of this campaign, just as sex is. The main reason Ohio and Texas were lost was because of racism.

Beyond this campaign, when is the last time you have seen a white man in black face demeaning a black man
who has reached for power in this country? In any other context, it would be completely unacceptable. Why
is it minimized in this the most important context of all?

[MonkeyFunk]

20. He wasn't in blackface

You seem not to know the meaning or history of the word.

[Common Sense Party]

75. My thoughts exactly.

People should learn what terms mean before using them...improperly.

[MS Liberal]

23. Obama is not a Black Man

He is bi-racial. He should not have to deny his mother heritage and only be seen as a bi prouduct of his father. We need to stop just trying to make him a black man. He is also a white man. Live with it. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[woolldog]

28. Race is a socially constructed and socially defined cateogry

If it were simply about genetic makeup you would be correct, he would be as white as he is black. But it's not.

[Big Blue Marble]

42. He has chosen to self-identify as a black. Live with it.

And that is how most voters see him.

And the racial subtext speaks to a theme far deeper that Obama' racial indentity. It speaks to the stereotypes that
black people are not as smart as white people. At that level. it insults all people of color and reinforces
the racism that many still hold in our country. That is why I find it both dangerous and disturbing.

[NOLALady]

49. Most Black people in this country have mixed ancestry.

Obama is no different.
Even though his Mother is white, he has chosen to self identify with the Black culture. Actually, considering the color of his skin, he probably didn't have much of a choice.

He has the same experiences of other Black people in this country regardless of the amount of European ancestry. When a taxi driver decides to pass him by, that driver does not base his decision on the amount of European ancestry he may have. If a person decides to identify as Black, it is not a denial of their European ancestry, IMO. One has to deal with reality.

[Bullet1987]

53. No...most Black people aren't mixed

Only a minority are.

[MonkeyFunk]

82. Most black people in America are

[NOLALady]

88. Maybe you are right.

Where do you get your information?

I've been researching genealogy nearly 20 years and I do not know any 'black' person who do not have mixed ancestry. It's obvious that many in the community are multiracial. But, I have traced ancestry for those who are not obviously mixed and found the MU in the Census records.

I doubt if there are any blacks (or whites for that matter) whose ancestors have been here 200 years who do not share ancestry.

[annie1]

41. a biracial actress on snl played a white singer, is that racist?

[Big Blue Marble]

51. Where do you not get the racist history of the USA?

White men dressing in blackface to entertain millions of white people in the first half of the 20th Century. It
was common. And it strongly reinforced the racist stereotypes that kept black people from achieving parity
in this society. There is no comparable history of biracial actresses misportraying as weak, dumb, and incompetent.

I think that SNL stepped over the line with this one.

[MonkeyFunk]

67. Again

this wasn't blackface. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Common Sense Party]

76. Darrell Hammond did an impression of Jesse Jackson for

years on SNL.

Did you complain about that "racist" use of "blackface"?

(He was hilarious, by the way. This kid doing Obama isn't that talented.)

[UALRBSofL]

3. And everyone already knows

Obama has used the SNL skit to his advantage and using it against the Clintons.

[sasha031]

4. I very much agree

Why didn't they just paint the faces.SNL is turned out to be real trash, it was great in the old days.
Does anyone even watch it anymore?

[hedgehog]

5. Hmmmmmmmm...........is it racism if you're too dumb to know you're being racist?

I think you're on to something here.


To paraphrase Frederick Douglas, I don't think there's anything wrong with using someone the color of Obama's mother instead of the color of his father to depict him. However, the assumption that he would appoint Sharpton to a major post just because he's black.......especially given that Sharpton hasn't even endorsed Obama......

[Diane R]

6. Several elements of that skit were cringeworthy. It was demeaning to Obama in many ways.

[ExtraGriz]

8. racist subtext?? no.

i'm a minority myself in many ways and i didnt see any at all.....but people will see whatever they want to see.

[Georgie_92]

9. That's just so wrong! :(

[Saturday]

10. Yes, every joke, every satire, every thing ever said about

Obama is racist. And every joke, every satire and everything said about Hillary is funny. :sarcasm:

[Hardrada]

12. The skit was not funny. It went on way too long as most of their

especially unfunny pieces do. It had a little disclaimer about how the bit was put together from "talking points" but did not say they were HRC talking points. And it was as demeaning as it was tedious. GE owns NBC which owns SNL. That might explain something.

[Emit]

27. It did go on for far too long n/t

[AZBlue]

13. With Hillary in White Face?

[Big Blue Marble]

My god I missed the irony of that. n/t

[AZBlue]

33. You know, none of this had occurred to me, but now I wonder...

[JimGinPA]

14. My Take On It - It Was HRC's Dramatization Of A Scare Ad Showing Her Desperation...

Her attempt to diminish Obama and plea to have people contact the DNC to overturn the vote.

[Big Blue Marble]

26. It was carefully constructed to appear that way.

An yet the real body blows were directed at Obama. He is being played by
a white man in black face acting to make Obama look beyond incompetent.

It is also, ironically played to make Obama seem racist as he has appointed Al Sharpton
to be Secretary of State purely because he is black.

[JimGinPA]

43. Yes, Because It Was HER Worst Case Scenario - Her INTENTIONTo Make Him Seem Unqualified

I saw it as a total hit on her negative campaigning.

[Bettie]

70. I thought that the funny part was that

Everyone knows that Mr. Obama is not a helpless guy and wouldn't need to call her in the middle of the night. In my mind, that was what made it a little bit funny, because it was so over the top wrong.

But again, I do get your point about racism, I just don't necessarily believe that it was an intended thing.

[woolldog]

15. I don't watch SNL

but if what you're describing happened, sure sounds like it. In fact, it sounds a lot like Birth of a Nation. I'd suggest you analyze this in more depth and write a letter.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. No

And makeup to make you appear black is not the same thing as "blackface".

[mythyc]

56. i can't believe you just wrote that

wearing makeup to make him look black is not black face? someone has some history to read.

semantics. you'd make a good politician. or corporate PR person

[Common Sense Party]

77. "someone has some history to read." Yes. You.

Look up "blackface." It refers to a very specific practice.

[MonkeyFunk]

83. Correct

it is not "blackface".

The word has a meaning and a history, of which you seem woefully ignorant.

[Maddy McCall]

84. I'm an historian. You don't know what "blackface" is. Obviously.

Did he "jump Jim Crow" on the show? NO.

You don't know the difference in blackface and theatrical makeup, obviously.

YOU need to learn some history.

[Joe the Revelator]

18. I think you're being overly sensitive

Satire is satire.

[Quixote1818]

21. It was making fun of Hillary's attacks on Obama. nt

[IndianaGreen]

24. The theme, started by Bill Clinton, is that Obama should seat in the back of the bus

That's what these very wealthy Clintons are doing, a Driving Miss Daisy role for Obama.

[Mags]

45. You know, it appears as though everything that is done ,not

praising your man BO, you think is racism. Don't you get tired of the same old ,same old, woe is me act. If you had it your way , no one could even speak of the man. Don't you think it is time to get on with living for your self and quit blaming everything on somebody else.

[Big Blue Marble]

59. You know, I have never started a thread on racism before this.

Not to be redundant, but please read my comments up thread. This is not just about Obama, it is a stereotype
that insults all people of color. Your exaggerated claims of my overly sensitive response to racism are neither
borne in fact or speak to your own concerns or lack thereof, of racism in our culture.

That fact that many would watch this skit and not notice that racial subtext speaks to racism far better that I can.

[Berry Cool]

62. I don't think you can sit in the back of the bus and drive the car at the same time.

Sounds like a bit of a mixed metaphor to me.

Just sayin'.

[frazzled]

25. Would Hillary being played by a man in drag be seen as sexist?

I think it probably would be.

I'm not sure about the white actor in blackface as being racist, and I didn't watch last night (I watched a DVD of Ang Lee's Lust/Caution!), but if the implication is that Obama is going to appoint Al Sharpton ... well, yes, that's racist, and a scare tactic. Shame.

[Emit]

35. Funny you should mention that because we just received our copy of The Week

When I picked it up from the mail, my first response was, "What an unflattering picture of Hillary! Sexist much?" It had a picture on the cover of Hillary in a boxing ring, sitting in the corner, quite masculine, looking like she had taken a beating, etc. My SO had the very same reaction, in fact, almost verbatim.

[murielm99]

57. Will Ferrell used to play Janet Reno on SNL.

Remember Janet Reno's Dance Party? Remember the time the real Janet Reno showed up?

I always thought it was funny.

[Common Sense Party]

78. OBVIOUSLY sexist.

Men in drag are ALWAYS sexist.

:sarcasm:

[Big Blue Marble]

61. I am not saying that the skit was constructed to be racist,

as much as I am saying that the writers showed no sensitivity that it might be construed to be racist.
They walked right into to stereotypes that are usually avoided in modern entertainment, stereotypes
that would have been better left in our disgraceful past.

[murielm99]

81. Oh dear!

We can't make any jokes about the Presidential contest now! They might be construed to be racist! Or is that constructed to be racist?

My post was about Will Ferrell in drag, playing Janet Reno. I thought it was funny. Reno did too, or she would not have shown up on SNL, dressed identically to Ferrell.

I was pointing out the silliness of the comparison.

This whole thread is silly. Obama supporters need to get over themselves.

[MonkeyFunk]

85. What stereotype did they walk into?

They didn't put on a minstrel show. They had an actor in dark makeup.

Ever seen Othello?

[Nedsdag]

29. The only reason I taped last night's SNL

was to watch Vampire Weekend as the musical guest. SNL means NOTHING to me.

[Pisces]

30. last weeks cartoon skit with Al Sharpton was also racist.

I guess Tina Fey and camp have it big for the Clintons. The dumb black guy act is going to backfire on them. It definitely has racist overtones.

[NOLALady]

31. I stopped watching SNL some time ago.

But, yes I would find that disturbing. But, that's just me.

[walldude]

SNL hasn't been funny since 1979

and get off my lawn you rotten kids!!

[jlpohio69]

34. Hmmm....I didn't know BO was a black man...

I thought he was bi-racial.

[donheld]

50. Have you ever heard of the one drop rule?

[mucifer]

40. I agree rascit. But, I also think Larry David's article about Hillary was sexist.

[goclark]

48. I am not impressed with SBL, they once were funny

but I'm missing their humor by a mile.

Why can't they find a AAmerican to play Obama ~ don't they feel the need to give a Black person a job?

And why must he be stupid enough to ask Hillary any damn thing. Obama would never ask her anything.

He is perfectly capable of having staff people to consult with ~ why would he ever need to talk to her?

[TwilightGardener]

52. I didn't see it, but it sounds...insensitive at best, in terms of black stereotypes.

[THUNDER HANDS]

54. actually, Fred Armizen isn't white - he's half Venezuelan and half Japanese

and he's from Long Island. woot!

[Big Blue Marble]

60. Venezuelans are not white?

That is news to me. Since most of their heritage is European.

[boppers]

63. Central and south america...

..Have a mix of native, portugese, spanish, and african heritages.

Whether or not they're "white" is more or less a matter of social construction.

[ctaylors6]

65. I honestly did not detect racial subtext. I thought they made fun of both candidates

for what they've generally been questioned about: Obama for his lack of experience and Hillary for her tactics. I didn't think Obama came off as "dumb," more like someone who just started a new job and had no idea what he was doing. When they were talking about the heater it reminded me more of a husband-wife question frankly. I also thought they zinged Hillary many times on her tactics (eg not so much facts as specious campaign talking points IIRC).
Maybe if I'd known who played Obama I would have felt differently watching it. I don't watch SNL enough to know who anyone is. I'm not always the most clued in to undertones, but I'm mixed race so I'm usually a little sensitive to that.

[Berry Cool]

66. Here's how I saw it.

The "blackface" issue aside, because that's a whole different discussion, although I think it's a legitimate one. For that reason, I'm going to discuss this skit as if it had been a black man portraying Obama.

The skit was cunningly created, because it was constructed as to potentially be found funny by anyone, regardless of political opinion. As a Republican or independent, you could simply look on it and laugh at both the farcical depictions of Clinton and Obama equally. As a Hillary supporter, you could read it as a hilarious--and TRUE!--depiction of what life would be like with Obama as president, and thus as "the best Hillary ad ever." As an Obama supporter, you could look at it as a hilarious--and TRUE! presentation of what Hillary WANTS voters to think would happen if Obama were president, and of the absurdly exaggerating, demeaning-to-Obama kind of ad she WISHES she could run.

Of course, doing such a skit is never risk-free. So, of course, you not only have people reacting to it as above, but also have Hillary supporters thinking it was an insult to Hillary because it cruelly implied that she would actually like to exaggerate Obama's lack of fitness for office that way, and Obama supporters thinking it was a depiction of the show's writers' TRUE feelings about what an Obama presidency would be like.

Me? I think the absurdity on both sides kept me in mind that above all, comedy was the goal. Was it so pro-Hillary to include Obama asking where Bill is and Hillary saying "It's 3 a.m., how am I supposed to know?" Or to depict Hillary in curlers and cold cream? Was it so pro-Obama that it avoided even reminding people that he used to smoke? Or that it avoided making him look so stupid he didn't know what to do in the White House if it got cold?

I recognized that the whole thing was couched pretty carefully to ensure that it didn't sound like it was favoring either candidate too much.
And I admit--the part about the heater and the little red button next to it that "Hillary" advises "Barack" to push and wait 45 minutes for the heat to kick on--that's exactly the kind of thing my mind wanders to every time I hear the "Day One" meme.

Yep--Hillary will be ready on Day One. She already knows about that little button next to the heater. She could find it in the dark. And that stuck window in that one room? That too. Just give it a good shove and a slam; it'll shut.

[grantcart]

68. I missed your earlier thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4992590

[Bettie]

69. I "read" the skit differently than you did....

I saw it as a comment on Mrs. Clinton and what she seems to believe about Mr. Obama. I thought it was a shot at her advertising and her recent comments.

I can certainly see how it could be read another way, but I tend to choose to believe the best of people. Comedy isn't easy to write without the possibility of offending someone. It really is a fine line to walk between satire and someone really becoming offended.

Anyway, just another perspective. Agree or not, we all have our opinions.

Bettie

[damndude]

72. stepin fetchit is the more apt corraltion..........

the old black actor who immortalized and embodied the idea of black people as ignorant, simple minded and hapless. the danger in entering the fray in such a way and portraying a candidate who is black in such a way does come off as offensive to me the same as the ladies of snl like tina fey found the treatment of hillary to be offensive to them. i choose not to watch. but there are people to whom that kind portrayal is a reinforcement of their own ideas about black people in general and serves to always restrict the process to 'the right kind of people' and always force credible candidates to work that much harder to be taken seriously. the fact barack obama has managed to to transcend this image should be testament to his validity and serve as a bellwether for what he can accomplish.
anyone not understanding the implications should think of a skit of hillary being portrayed as a hysterical lorena bobbit roaming the white house with scissors or john mccain holding a black baby in the waiting room of a plastic surgeon's office.

[LTR]

73. I have no problem with a non-black actor playing Obama

Hell, one of Eddie Murphy's funniest bits was when he walked around New York heavily made up to look like an old Jewish white man.

And in an unrelated story, there's this:



Face look familiar? Here's the scoop:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/tropic_thunder/news/1670654/

[Big Blue Marble]

74. Under normal circumstances neither would I.

SNL walks on shaky ground when they present Obama as they did in this skit. Of course their argument is that it portrayed
a Clinton fantasy. Yet a depiction of a black man appearing completely incompetent and needing the help of a white person
to keep him going was the fantasy of many for much of the last century. The fact that man is portrayed by a white man in black face seems beyond
the appropriate. Perhaps a little more racial sensitivity and historical perspective would be appropriate for the SNL writers.

[blogslut]

79. Personally, I thought the sketch was rather unflattering to Hillary

Besides, Fred Armisen is Venezuelan, Japanese and German. Multi-Cultural - Like Barack Obama

[AX10]

80. There you Obambots go again.

Anytime you get something not positive about your guy, you scream racism. This is getting really old.
Also, Sharpton is a POS. The ultimate hatemonger, a left wing version of Mike Savage. :puke:

[MagickMuffin]

86. Fred Armisen has both Venezuelan and Japanese ancestry. He is bi-racial.

Just as Barack is bi-racial.

So, please quit referring to Fred as being white. He isn't.

[TheDonkey]

87. It is lazy and offensive

Mostly offensive just because it is not funny satire. There are much better jabs at Obama to give then their angle

[DS1]

90. Watching SNL for humor is like fishing for Brie