why won't HRC's supporters debate her votes?

[grassfed]

simple question.

Hillary
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

OBAMA
YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
NO on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
In response to the Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran Obama drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.
Not then in the Senate but took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution
OBAMA signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge


FYI:
McCain
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
McCain refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

[OzarkDem]

1. Let's debate issues

We've been around politics long enough to ignore the GOP style stuff you're throwing out.

Let's debate substantive work and effort on behalf of important issues by each candidate. Otherwise, you're wasting my time.

[grassfed]

5. Torture, bankruptcy and war aren't issues?

[MannyGoldstein]

18. No. The Only Issues Are Rezko And The Votes Obama And Clinton Agreed On

Bring up any other vote only if you're a Republican who hates women.

Get it?

Good!

Now explain it to *me*.

[SoFlaJet]

10. why did The Monster miss TWO Armed Services Committee hearings

on Afghanistan and then have the balls to criticize Obama for not having any?

[grassfed]

12. DEFEND THIS

Hillary voted
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

Defend it!

[SoFlaJet]

13. I refuse to defend The Monster

I fucking HATE HER

[elixir]

46. Two out of ... how many? Weak argument. He didn't have ONE.

[grassfed]

16. Stand up for your candidate

not asking about Obama.

waiting


Hillary
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

[Unbowed]

37. In other words, debate what she says not what she does.

What WORK is that? As a senator her job is to vote for the issues she champions. You want us instead to focus on her SPEECHES instead of her votes? That's precious!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[yourguide]

38. There's DUs very own Baghdad Bob spouting off again

oh ozark dem, you kidder you....

[alteredstate]

44. OK - Let's start with cluster bombs.

[zabet]

2. Obama missed the Kyl-Liebermann vote.

[maddiejoan]

4. Stop. He's on a roll.

[zabet]

7. ..

:spray:

[grassfed]

30. Obama - Iran

In response to the Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran Obama drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.


OP not about Obama. Defend your candidates votes.


Thank you.

[maddiejoan]

32. I'll go ya one better

I agreed with it.

[grassfed]

9. Obama is advocating

legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.

I was mistaken on Kyle Lieberman vote.

[zabet]

19. Obama has also said he did not

know how he would have voted
on the IWR if he had been in
the senate at the time. Surely
senators in Washington had more
info about it than a Illinois
state senator would have had.

[grassfed]

27. OP not about OBAMA

please defend Clinton's votes.

[zabet]

29. Clinton's votes?

What about the fact that
even though Obama is more
liberal, Clinton has voted
more along party line than
he has. Obama has also missed
more votes than Clinton has
in far less time of service.
His non-voting, voting present,
and 'mashing the wrong button'
votes should be an issue. Not
one or two votes the opponent
made you do not agree with.
I would love to find a politician
that voted exactly like I wanted
but, short of getting elected
myself, that ain't happening.

[grassfed]

39. OP not about Obama

Defend Hillary's votes. Votes matter.

[zabet]

42. You put Obama in the OP,

he is the part of the OP
I choose to discuss. If
you did not want anyone to
post about Obama, you should
have only posted in the OP
Hillary's votes, not Obama's
too. In doing that you made
it about both of them. I
will discuss which part of the
OP I wish too.
Votes do matter, when someone
shows up to make them, and does
something other than vote present.

[grassfed]

45. got it

you're cool with torture, rendition, cluster bombs, unprovoked wars, etc. Why are you a Democrat?

More than 50 international organizations, including the International Committee of the Red Cross, the Mennonite Central Committee, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the International Committee to Ban Landmines have called for a moratorium on cluster bomb use. And, in spite of the fact that cluster bombs are one of the favorite and most deadly weapons in the U.S. and NATO arsenals, on December 13, 2001 the European Parliament passed a resolution calling for an immediate global moratorium on their use to be followed by an outright ban.
Hillary says no.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

47. exxcellent post. welcome to DU.

[grassfed]

48. thanks, I gave it it's own thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5003273&mesg_id=5003273

[oasis]

11. Proof positive that even his own supporters are clueless about Obama's record. (eom)

[grassfed]

14. Defend Your Candidate

Hillary
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge


DEFEND IT!

[grassfed]

15. hello? defend your candidate

Hillary
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

[oasis]

20. IWR: "...bipartisan support for this resolution makes it's success in the United Nations

more likely, and therefore, war, less likely" HRC.

Emphasis on "United Nations".

[grassfed]

28. "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002"

"Iraq War Resolution: Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002"


now defend her other votes.

[oasis]

35. You disagree with Hill's votes on certain issues and that's why you support Obama. Hillary's

votes stand on their own merit.

[grassfed]

40. what was the merit

in these cases? Illuminate me.

NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

[backscatter712]

3. To be fair,

Obama was not a U.S. Senator when the vote on the Iraq War Resolution took place, though as an Illinois State Senator, he expressed strong public opposition to the Iraq War.

Still, I suspect the reason why Hillary's supporters don't debate us much on the votes is because her voting record is indefensible.

[Window]

6. You win!

[maddiejoan]

8. The voting record

that's like nearly identical to Obama's voting record when he bothers to vote)?

[MannyGoldstein]

21. Identical - Except For All Of The Really Important Votes

Then, as the OP pointed out, Obama votes like a Democrat and Clinton votes like a Republican.

Hillary
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

OBAMA
YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
NO on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
In response to the Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran Obama drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.
Not then in the Senate but took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution
OBAMA signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge


FYI:
McCain
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
McCain refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

[backscatter712]

22. This one's accurate.

I'd still like to hear the rhetorical gymnastics the Hillary supporters will use when they try to defend Clinton's vote against banning the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. "Cluster Bombs Represent The Jobs Of Real People"

Or some such crap.

[grassfed]

23. Hillary & McCain - identical

Hillary voted
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

McCain voted
NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
McCain refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge

[maddiejoan]

31. four votes

and a pledge that no President would sign (having Presidents sign outside interest group pledges is a bad idea) hardly makes their voting records the same.

[BlueStater]

17. Um

Obama wasn't in the senate when the Iraq War Resolution was voted on. And, when he WAS in the senate, he chose to not show up at all instead of voting nay on the Kyl/Lieberman bill.

[grassfed]

24. OP not about OBAMA

defend Clinton's votes please

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Depends on amendments to the final bill.

I would have to see the full bill before I could make a determination.

Provide those and a real discussion can begin.

[depakid]

33. Depends on which Bankruptcy Bill one is talking about

Hillary did not support the bill that became law- the 2001 bill was actually designed in some respects to thwart its passage with abortion amendments. On the other hand, Obama opposed an amendment regarding rate caps in later bill.

So those votes, at least -is more complicated than the OP would have people believe.

(for the record. once again I'm NOT a Hillary supporter).

[Vinca]

34. Oh . . . that's scary. Hillary and McCain had identical votes.

I've been encouraging everyone to vote for her if she's the candidate, but apparently it won't matter one way or the other.

[bigtree]

36. these have been 'debated here. There's usually no point in this forum.

Folks line up on their respective sides and defend or oppose. Better to promote the qualifications of your own candidate to the fullest extent possible.

[grassfed]

41. How to defend Hillary's votes

I support and defend Hillary's vote against Amendment No. 4882 because I approve of the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

I support and defend Hillary's vote in favor of Bankruptcy bill (S.256) because some people in debt should not be protected.

I support and defend Hillary's vote in favor of the Kyle/Lieberman bill because the US should take unprovoked military action against Iran.

I support and defend Hillary's vote in favor of an unprovoked illegal war on Iraq.

I support and defend Hillary's refusal to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge because Americans should be allowed to torture.

[rodeodance]

43. Right---

[dailykoff]

49. knr