So how many of us Obama supporters are former Clinton apologists and supporters...

[tokenlib]

In 1992 I remember the sense of hope and excitement that Bill would "Put People First." And by 1997 and 2000 we had to begin explaining away and defending the Clintons for everything from Whitewater to Monica. I spent my time on the phones, putting up signs, doing what I could for them in '92 and '96..

I put my time in for the Clintons. I cheered as Bill gave speeches and sold snow to the eskimos. Over the years I got to see their priorities and values. The triangulation and deceit. How Hillary could even once vote for bankruptcy reform against every major consumer group in the country, after her husband had vetoed it. How Bill agreed with Bush on Iraq and then lied to say he had opposed it. And the DLC pissing on everything we New Deal democrats have honored and cherished since FDR. Al From can go to hell and so can his corporatist minions. And after the slime from Bill and Hill this past month, I've had enough of their politics..

Calling us Hillary haters is easy--but not true. Some of us knew the Clintons enough to finally open our eyes and to see them as we never knew them before. Scorched earth policy, saying anything to win, double standards, etc. Planning to break the arms off superdelegates as they put their personal ambitions ahead of the party. Ten state strategies disowning the other 40 states..

Barack Obama is someone we can believe in. He is reaching out to the entire country. He knows the pain of student loan debt so heavy, that it has stolen the futures of millions. He believes in hope and believes an engaged nation can do amazing things. Some of FDR's programs failed--but he knew the value of dreams and gave his people hope and helped them. It's time to turn the page. Barack wants to try work with Republicans because there are problems we have to deal with now, not later. Hubert Humphrey and Barry Goldwater were friends, Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill could talk and drink together, Paul Wellstone gained the respect of many republicans. Ted Kennedy and Orrin Hatch are friends.

The superdelegates better get backbones and step in to support a movement that has brought out young people and millions alienated who never thought they could make a difference. Obama will have the mathematical lead--so they need no excuses. The superdelegates had better embrace the future of a rejuvenated Democratic party that has real nationwide hope for the first time since the Reagan revolution. They know the Clintons too--and I hope they open their eyes and embrace the future. We shouldn't have to make excuses for them any more.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. I'm a reformed Hillary/Bill apologist. Never again!

[Barb in Atl]

5. I'll always argue that the impeachment was wrong...

Tacky and hurtful to his family, sure. But Bill Clinton's extramarital blunder wasn't worth impeaching him.

[Levgreee]

10. it was for committing pergury, not for the extramarital blunder. Still would say it was silly, tho

[NDambi]

53. Me too!! Never again.

[hedgehog]

2. It's being tired of being a Clinton apologist that initially turned me

into a Anybody But Clinton Democrat. I was looking at Biden, Edwards and Richardson last Spring besides Obama.

[davidinalameda]

3. me as well

after Bill Richardson sort of self-destructed in the debates, I went to Hillary

then I started doing research on Obama and saw what I liked

[skipos]

4. I used to defend Hillary Clinton and even Lieberman around here

when I first joined. That was before the whole Lieberman for CT thing, and before I had the chance to witness the pure ugliness of Hillary Inc. It used to bug me when friends and family said they wouldn't vote for her, but now I kinda get it. I'd still vote for her though.

[goclark]

28. Why?

I do realize that your mind is made up and I in no way trying to change it.




Do you realize that you totally understand that she is Hillary Inc. and you would still support her?

Amazing!

I want America to be better than that for our children.

Bush Inc. makes me know I don't want to ever go in that direction again.

" I had the chance to witness the pure ugliness of Hillary Inc. It used to bug me when friends and family said they wouldn't vote for her, but now I kinda get it. I'd still vote for her though"

[JerseygirlCT]

64. Well, Clinton I get.. but what the heck were you thinking with Lieberman!

(I'm ribbing you, but seriously? I never could stand the man myself.)

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Not Me, Baby

I was working on Paul Tsongas' presidential campaign in 1992, at his national headquarters here in Boston. It was immediately clear that Clinton was extraordinarily amoral (flew back to Arkansas to preside over the execution of a retarded man) and was, as Bob Kerrey said, "an unusually good liar. Unusually good." Clinton would launch baldfaced lies about Tsongas and the other candidates with skill that was simply breathtaking to behold. And it worked.

[Cha]

22. How unique...one of the

rare ones.

[scheming daemons]

7. All?

I voted for Bill twice..... and Gore in 2000.


All three times, *MY* state .... PA.... came through.

;-)

[alteredstate]

8. I made excuses for Bill until I was blue in the face.

Never again.

[niceypoo]

25. So you decided to just give up and join Ken Starr?

[alteredstate]

29. Can't you come up with something a little better than that?

I certainly hope you're more intelligent than your illogical responses here indicate.

[stop the bleeding]

9. Me

:beer:

[zulchzulu]

11. I did a lot of grassroots stuff for Bill in 1992 in San Francisco

By 1996, I couldn't stand the guy. He betrayed so many of us.

[papau]

12. OK - but how do you believe in someone that lies to you? - as in O saying that there never was

the NAFTA meeting for days - until the memo forced him to change his story.

[tokenlib]

19. The campaign was a bit busy at the time..

It wouldn't surprise me if Barack isn't aware of everything that ia going on with every last one of his surrogates at any given moment.

And my problems with Hillary on Iraq, Bankruptcy Reform, Social Security, and what the heck she learned from Harry and Louise are big reasons I looked at Edwards and then Obama.

[lapfog_1]

13. I even defended his "I did not have sex..." speech

because I knew that the lawyers had cooked up a definition of sex that somehow didn't include the activities of Bill and Monica... just so he could make that claim... and then they had the "DNA" on the dress, and they knew that the public would turn on him for "lying" about it.

And I defended Hillary for saying that there was a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy against them... because there WAS...

But after she was elected Senator from New York... and especially after 9/11, I started seeing her pander to the neocons and to the pro-war part of the AIPAC... that's when I started mistrusting her.

My opinion of both of them has dropped so much with this campaign...

[Catherina]

34. Me too but here's a great cartoon for you

[IsItJustMe]

72. Great cartoon. You made my day.

[mattclearing]

14. I am.

They let me down too many times, though.

[AlinPA]

15. I was for Hillary until she mocked Obama and his supporters in RI

with the "celestial" stuff. The McCain/experience thing sealed it.

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. I worked on two Clinton campaigns locally and after

Gore got defeated, I researched on what really happened
and found out my original perceptions of the Clintons was
just an illusion and misguided.

[movonne]

17. I was all above...

[K Gardner]

18. I lost friends and made enemies over the Clintons. Loved Bill and admired Hillary and defended them

to the hilt.. up until November of 2007, when the Obama drug dealer smear started. I was supporting Hillary at the time and I wondered if I was the only one who noticed the politics of personal destruction starting. After years of documenting this garbage with Bush & CO, I did not want to see it again this election cycle. So I found DU. And switched my support to Biden, then Edwards.. and now Obama. I have grown to dislike Hillary more as each day passes. And I am not alone in this.

[IsItJustMe]

74. It takes a while for some of us to catch on. I would have voted for her a month ago. I have seen

her spew lots of sleaze; but, up until a month ago, I just chalked it down to a rough campaign. To me though, she totally crossed the line with her McCain/experience remarks. She was not only dragging down Ob ama, but the entire Democratic Party. Last straw for me.

[Cha]

20. Millions of Democrats went through that..

Sure clinton lied but it was his private business..so he had to lie and he didn't know the blue dress was gonna be freakin' SAVED for Inspection!

[Yael]

26. "It takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush" response

Perhaps, but it takes a dry cleaner to clean up after a Clinton.

(Can't remember who posted that during the LA Debate, but never forgot how hilarious it was)

[Yael]

21. I have had no use for their sneaky brand of politics since Travelgate

Sorry, I know that is bad -- but I simply don't like how they conduct business.

Give me someone like Dennis any day. With him, you always know where you stand.

[hedgehog]

65. And even with Travelgate, all Hillary had to do was say she fired their

asses because they were spreading rumors about her behind her back!

[TwilightGardener]

23. Was never one. Thought he was a very flawed man, and thought Hillary was a

calculating striver.

[RamboLiberal]

24. It was Bill Clinton who got me excited about politics in 92

I was so tired of Reagan and Poppy Bush. Although even back then I thought Gore the better part of the ticket.

I was pissed at Limbaugh and the minions who grew up around him for tearing down the Clintons. I remember I was a bit peeved at Hillary that she came up with such secretive and complex health care plan that it enabled the Repuks and scare-mongers to shoot it down.

I was also annoyed at the endless reporting on Whitewater though I didn't completely blame the Clintons. I was ticked that even though Bill knew the Repukes were after him that he couldn't keep his zipper zipped and made those of us who supported him look like fools. But he certainly shouldn't have been impeached. That was none of the country's business and should've been private family business.

The more I learned of the DLC the more disenchanted I became with the Clintons. I was really hoping that Hillary would see this year that for the good of the country and the Democratic party she shouldn't run. But there was no talking her out of it.

Besides my other problems with Hillary I think this country deserves more than just 2 families. I'm tired of Bush and Clinton!

[DesertFlower]

27. yep. i supported and defended them for

8 years while they were in office and even after that. i adored bill clinton. now i don't want to look at him. :-(

[dkf]

30. Yup, that was me. Defended him til I was blue in the face.

blech.

[alteredstate]

38. Uh -oh!

See posts #8 and #25.

:eyes:

[dkf]

39. Yeah we were all gasping for air.

Sad but true.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Proud to say not me.

[Armstead]

32. Not me.....They lost me about 1995

[Catherina]

33. A long long time ago, I can still remember when

But now it's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvsst7xXsl4

BYE BYE MISS AMERICA PIE

A long, long time ago...
I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile.
And I knew if I had my chance
That I could make those people dance
And, maybe, they’d be happy for a while.

But february made me shiver
With every paper I’d deliver.
Bad news on the doorstep;
I couldn’t take one more step.

I can’t remember if I cried
When I read about his widowed bride,
But something touched me deep inside
The day the music died.

So bye-bye, miss american pie.
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
Singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

Did you write the book of love,
And do you have faith in God above,
If the Bible tells you so?
Do you believe in rock ’n roll,
Can music save your mortal soul,
And can you teach me how to dance real slow?

Well, I know that you’re in love with him
`cause I saw you dancin’ in the gym.
You both kicked off your shoes.
Man, I dig those rhythm and blues.

I was a lonely teenage broncin’ buck
With a pink carnation and a pickup truck,
But I knew I was out of luck
The day the music died.

I started singin’,
"bye-bye, miss american pie."
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

Now for ten years we’ve been on our own
And moss grows fat on a rollin’ stone,
But that’s not how it used to be.
When the jester sang for the king and queen,
In a coat he borrowed from james dean
And a voice that came from you and me,

Oh, and while the king was looking down,
The jester stole his thorny crown.
The courtroom was adjourned;
No verdict was returned.
And while lennon read a book of marx,
The quartet practiced in the park,
And we sang dirges in the dark
The day the music died.

We were singing,
"bye-bye, miss american pie."
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

Helter skelter in a summer swelter.
The birds flew off with a fallout shelter,
Eight miles high and falling fast.
It landed foul on the grass.
The players tried for a forward pass,
With the jester on the sidelines in a cast.

Now the half-time air was sweet perfume
While the sergeants played a marching tune.
We all got up to dance,
Oh, but we never got the chance!
`cause the players tried to take the field;
The marching band refused to yield.
Do you recall what was revealed
The day the music died?

We started singing,
"bye-bye, miss american pie."
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

Oh, and there we were all in one place,
A generation lost in space
With no time left to start again.
So come on: jack be nimble, jack be quick!
Jack flash sat on a candlestick
Cause fire is the devil’s only friend.

Oh, and as I watched him on the stage
My hands were clenched in fists of rage.
No angel born in hell
Could break that satan’s spell.
And as the flames climbed high into the night
To light the sacrificial rite,
I saw satan laughing with delight
The day the music died

He was singing,
"bye-bye, miss american pie."
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
And singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

I met a girl who sang the blues
And I asked her for some happy news,
But she just smiled and turned away.
I went down to the sacred store
Where I’d heard the music years before,
But the man there said the music wouldn’t play.

And in the streets: the children screamed,
The lovers cried, and the poets dreamed.
But not a word was spoken;
The church bells all were broken.
And the three men I admire most:
The father, son, and the holy ghost,
They caught the last train for the coast
The day the music died.

And they were singing,
"bye-bye, miss american pie."
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
Singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die.
"this’ll be the day that I die."

They were singing,
"bye-bye, miss american pie."
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
Them good old boys were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
Singin’, "this’ll be the day that I die."

[JVS]

35. I used to speak up for them in the 90's

Never again. Those fuckwads can lick my hairy asshole

[GoldieAZ49]

36. Nevah a Clinton fan, not even in 92 before he hit the fan

and less so for Hillary

And I never have and never will defend them, they are lawyers, they can damn weill defend themselves, they are used to it!

[sandnsea]

37. Me, absolutely

I only began to get a real clue about them AFTER she so adamently refused to change her position on Iraq. I didn't completely like his policies in the 90's, but chalked a lot of it up to a Republican Congress. But watching them acquiesce on the war, advise supporting anti gay marriage amendments, and see the cozy relationships they continue to get hooked up in -- I decided I had been completely duped.

[Cha]

40. Posting this poignant former apologist's

post from the huffington blog.

"I could have written this column. How many of us has Hillary lost along the way? It would be interesting to get a number.
I voted for each Clinton two times, and defended them even when I felt ashamed of their ideas (Health Care Secrecy, The Welfare 'Reform" war on the Poor, The Iraq War, Triangulationism) and their conduct (THAT WOMAN!!! Marc Rich. The bald ambition of running for Senate in a state you never lived in because "Hillary deserves to be our Senator").

Then I watched Hillary pin Obama with things I knew he never said, because I had watched the video on You Tube and read the transcript, about "Republicans having 'all the best ideas.'"

Even after he proved to her SHE and Bill had praised Reagan directly and warmly and she was telling lies, she said, "Well, that's how it sounded to me."

I think The Clinton's are a disease on our soul. Bill never got near 50 % of the vote, and I wonder how she plans on winning without those of us she has alienated who are life-long Democratic Party members. And Hillary "DittoTaylorMarsh-heads, spare us all the talk about Hillary's "steadfastness". She survives because she has no shame and no ideas. She is the creation of the Lobbyist and Hedge Fund Class and she has turned her Fame, like Bill, into a fortune."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-grahamesmith/the-monster-a-loyal-clin_b_90632.html#postComment

My friend at work said he and his wife noticed hilary saying those things about Obama regarding what he was suppose to have said about reagun and they knew she was lying. If hilary gets busted enough maybe she'll stop? She's never been busted strongly enough.

[AZBlue]

41. Me!

I was even looking forward to supporting her Presidential campaign.

[Rageneau]

42. Loyalty is an important quality to me, so I still support the Clintons.

[olkaz]

59. Battered wife syndrome?

Just checking.

[rug]

43. How many are Republicans?

[johnnydrama]

44. I would still defend him

I defended him a great amount in the phony path to 9/11 crap. I'm sure even the Democrats who don't like him, didn't want to see shit made up about him.

I even defended him saying that whatever you want to say about him, he did win the Presidency twice.

I gave in to the win at all costs theory.

But 2006 changed my mind a bit, I realized that it's not just Dems that need to win, but more and better Dems. That the whole country matters, not 17 states and 50%+1.

I've even defended her during the campaign. Neither would be my first choice, but I just think Obama has a better shot at winning the GE, so that's why I'm supporting him.

But the McCain stuff was kind of the last straw. No matter what she was trying to say (that is if she was trying to say something different than what she said), she's repeated it over and over, and no matter what the apologists say, saying that you and the Republican are able to be commander in chief, but the other Dem isn't, can be only be seen as saying that if the race is between McCain and Obama, then vote McCain. That is the only way her statements can truthfully be seen, so that was the last straw.

[joeprogressive]

45. One of the best posts ever. It really sums it up.

I never supported HRC for pres because I knew she was unelectable but I defended her and Bill for 16 years. Never again. The only support she will get from me is a vote in the GE if she is the nominee because I care more about the future of my family than anything. However, if she is nominated it will only be because of SD shenanigans or the seating of delegates in an unfair manner. If that happens, the Democratic party will be screwed for years to come.

[tokenlib]

55. Thank you..

I'm tired of Obama supporters slimed by people as Hillary haters. Especially when I think some of us know the Clintons better than they realize.

[cooolandrew]

46. AMEN he embraces all of America just in his strategy. All of America is good enough for a true Dem

Democratic party.

[lmbradford]

47. I am....

unfortunately.......I have come to my senses and want someone good and new to take over.

[krkaufman]

48. Hell, Tweety had me defending Hillary before the NH primary ...

... and a misleading post over on the blog of some guy named Marc Ambinder had me defending her yesterday. I still defend her when she's unjustly attacked. It's just more distasteful, now, bordering on vile.

[hedgehog]

66. The problem is that her supporters claim that any attack is unjustified. nt

[krkaufman]

76. Yes. Any criticism is an "attack" n/t

[seabeyond]

49. i was never a big fan. didnt trust bill. but in 96 had to vote for him cause of repug atttack

and what they were doing was just wrong. but politically i didnt trust some of his votes. really didnt like the nafta vote.

i tried to trust hillary in this race, but saw too much not to trust her

i was more a fan of clinton when he got out of office.

[jakem]

50. Used to like Bill, now I have no use for either of them

[krkaufman]

51. ACTION: I'd suggest that people contact their Representatives and Senators ...

... to make their feelings known. (that goes for supporters of both candidates)

Good post.

p.s. Kos' earlier quip may be evolving to the "Insult 46 States Strategy" now, if Ed Rendell's statement is any measure.

[SoCalDem]

52. I defended them too, and was more than ready to support her

didn't know who Obama even was.. Since Bill popped off in SC, I wrote them off..

and then started to pay closer attention to all the other goofy antics and sly code-speak as they desperately tried to goad him into a fight..

all throughout it, he has kept his eye on the prize, and has resisted their attempts as they ratchet them up and up..

I know that politics is not beanbag, but he had behaved like a gentleman, and she and her team have behaved like cornered desperate animals, flailing around wildly..

I can only hope that the soooopers are paying close attention..

That said, I CAN understand how unhappy and depressed she must be.. She HAD it in the bag..she's been running for 7 1/2 years , had more money, more name recognition, and she even moved to a state she probably NEVER wanted to live in, just so she could "set the table".. she put up with a scoundrel for a husband. and this was to be her place in history.. the big payoff.. and it's slipping away.. It's got to hurt like hell and I sympathize with her for that..

She hooked up with some bad managers and perhaps took some bad advice.. who knows..

She needs a vacation..and some sleep..

[Medusa]

54. Me.

Their tactics in this election has cost them my support forevermore. And I don't know if I'll ever be willing to defend another politican again the way I've defended them in the past.

[Raine]

56. I am

I lost friends and alienated relatives because of my defense of the Clintons. I donated money to them to put them into office and donated to Bill's library after they were out. I feel had and betrayed and I'm thru defending them.

[DevonRex]

57. I was a duped delusional.

No more, though. Now my eyes are wide open. I'm no longer naive. I question everyone and everything. That's why I support Obama.

[Laelth]

58. In Georgia and in Texas ...

I supported and apologized for the Clintons for twelve years (1992-2004).

No more. Never again.

I will vote for Hillary if she is the nominee, but I will donate no money, and I will not apologize for her.

You can not throw my party under the bus and expect me to like it.

:(

-Laelth

[angie_love]

60. Me, was young and stupid

[TeamsterDem]

61. Count me in

I lost more credibility than I care to fathom defending the Clintons to my friends, doing so even when I knew I was wrong. That's my fault, not Bill or Hillary's, and I blame myself. I shouldn't have done that, but at least I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong.

I can't do anything about my mistakes in the past except to learn from them and pledge not to make them again. I don't *KNOW* if Barack Obama is all he appears to be, but I for one am supporting him and will continue to do so unless I come across information that forces me to do differently. I don't think that will happen - that's why I'm supporting him - but I'm not an absolutist and know that sometimes people can disappoint: The Clintons proved that.

[Kaylee]

62. Me.

I really liked them and held Bill in high esteem. I've been eating a lot of crow recently and telling people I defended the Clintons to that they were right.

[JerseygirlCT]

63. Sounds familiar here, too.

I wanted to want Clinton. No doubt she's smart. And the thought of a woman finally in the WH...

But, like you, there's just too much: too much that says "selfish" and "expedient" to me. The way she and her campaign team have behaved through this campaign? Really, really turned me off, and made my choice easy in the end.

[Adelante]

67. Once was, but no more, not ever nt

[IsItJustMe]

68. I denended Hillary up until about a month ago. Now when I hear the Republicans talk about how down

and dirty she is, all I can do is sigh. Like a broken clock, ever a Republican can be right twice a day.

[AJH032]

69. Some are, some are not

you cannot say that there are no Hillary/Clinton hating Obama supporters. They definitely do exist. But you are right that not all of them blindly hate the Clintons.

Also, if you were such a Clinton supporter in 1992 (who had essentially the same message as Obama does today), why do you think Obama will perform much differently?

And one more thing: Hillary is not Bill.

[Carolina]

70. I was, but fool me once...

When I think of the heated arguments I got in defending them in the 90s and then look at them through today's lens, I feel like an utter fool. I have started purging my home of all the saved Clinton memorabilia including her autographed autobiography. It's trash to me now.

[Upton]

71. I confess I voted for Bill twice

I still think he was an excellent president, times were better then. The hope that Bill once embodied is now present in Obama.

In a way, I hate to see the Clintons exposed for what they really are, selfish, putting themselves above the party. That's what they're doing though and it makes me sick.

[RBInMaine]

73. Went to BAT for Bill twice, have defended the Clinton time and again. But...

now is a NEW time, it is time for a new generation of new leadershop, and I am starting to see why half the country can't stand the Clintons.

[Jed Dilligan]

75. I stayed home from the polls until 2000

so no, I've never supported either Clinton.