Mark Penn: Obama "is the most liberal Democratic senator".

[chascarrillo]

Huh.

From The New Yorker:

Clinton is stressing in all her appearances—another point that Penn sees as essential—that Obama will appear distinctly weaker on national-security questions in relation to McCain. (This infuriates Obama’s supporters—after all, he alone among the surviving candidates opposed the invasion of Iraq.) The Clinton campaign will also press the claim that Obama will not be able to withstand heightened scrutiny of his domestic-policy views. The implication is that Obama is unacceptably liberal, while Clinton, despite the similarity of her positions and voting record, is not. “How much do Independent voters really know about Barack Obama, his voting record, and his past positions?” Penn asked recently. “Certainly less than Democrats know. In a general election the Republicans would spring into action, and quickly, if he were the nominee, roll out his full record. And the kind of Independent support that you see in places like Idaho would consequently evaporate.”

Penn pushed this idea last week when he told me, “People want to have a nominee that’s going to win. So a lot of the things they accepted initially may not hold up. Independent and Republican support is diminishing as they find out he’s the most liberal Democratic senator”—a reference to recent rankings by the National Journal. “As they get more of a sense that he’s not ready to be Commander-in-Chief, a lot of Independents who were supporting him are disappearing.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/17/080317fa_fact_lizza?printable=true

[XemaSab]

1. OMG! The Clinton campaign has officially jumped teh shark

I can't fuckin' BELIEVE this asshole.

Let's see all the Clinton apologists spin this one.

:popcorn:

[thoughtcrime1984]

We need to rid this nation of l-l-l-liberals

says RUSH LIMBAUGH.

[Hieronymus]

95. Hillary is Republican lite.

[The_Casual_Observer]

teh teh teh spin?

[leftrightwingnut]

68. Astoundingly bad judgement on Clinton's part hiring McCain's adviser.

I thought that the negative attacks by Clinton herself were the bad judgment. Now I know the root of it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4958510&mesg_id=4958510

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. Hillary's campaign has jumped more sharks than Evel Knievel.

[tabasco]

2. Is Hillary a Democrat or a republican? I'm getting confused.

So the Clinton campaign makes liberal a bad word and use it to try to smear Obama.

Not surprising in the least.

The Clintons put their power grab above all else.

[jgraz]

9. I'm not.

Hillary W. Clieberman has pretty much tipped her hand.

[lligrd]

24. No Kidding, Don't Have To Be A Genius To

see which way she is tilting.

[lapfog_1]

53. That would be

Zellary W. Clieberman (or Cleiberton).

[earthlover]

63. Zellary W. McClieberman

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

72. Fits.

[Cha]

112. hilary W MccLIEberman

Wants you To FEAR..Be Very Afraid. Boo.

[DJ13]

14. Is Hillary a Democrat or a republican?

:shrug:

[New Dawn]

55. Republican.

Pro-McCain, pro-Bush's war, etc.

[dysfunctional press]

76. a dino- democrat in name only...a wolf in sheep's clothing-a dlc'er...republican-lite

take your pick.

[loveangelc]

3. Mark Penn should go crawl back into the swamp from whence he came.

He is undoubtedly a douchebag and looks like what you would imagine a real human douche would look like.

[ButterflyBlood]

4. HILLARY IS NOW ATTACKING LIBERALS

HILLARY IS NOT A FUCKING LIBERAL.

[MadBadger]

5. This line of attack only hurts him in the GE...That seems to be the theme for her lately.

[Cali_Democrat]

28. Yep. They wanna use all of McCain potential tactics against Obama right now. n/t.

[earthlover]

64. I would say they are doing McCain's work for him....for free!

If McCain does this stuff, it doesn't look the same as when McCain will be able to point to a DEMOCRAT doing this stuff! If you can't see how this helps McCain more than anything he can do, you must be a hillary supporter.

[stillcool]

85. Ah! It all makes perfect sense...

They're doing it on the cheap. Same Campaign managers gets you a buy one get one free slime bucket!

[Selatius]

6. How the hell is Clinton any stronger on national security? She has no foreign policy experience.

Joe Biden had more of an argument to bill his campaign as the experience campaign than Hillary did.

[Kool Kitty]

11. Very well said.

What is her vast foreign policy experience, exactly? I don't get it. And this "most Liberal" label for Obama, this is right off the right-wing repig talking points main page. She's talking about a fellow democrat, for Christ's sake. She should be attacking McCain.

[jgraz]

7. Does anyone doubt that if it was Kerry instead of Obama in the race

Hillary supporters would be sporting purple-heart band-aids at this point? :nuke:

[lapfog_1]

19. I think they have their "I voted - present" buttons all ready to hand out

at the convention.

[jgraz]

23. Are you kidding? They're going to show up wearing white turbans

and carrying coke spoons.

[lapfog_1]

35. Wrong image

crack pipes... that's more like it.



:sarcasm:

[XemaSab]

37. GMTA

n/t

[lapfog_1]

42. yup... spent the time doing the image search...

scary black man with a crack pipe!

[XemaSab]

46. I spent a few minutes trying to come up with the most racist stereotype possible

then I decided that painting him as a crackhead was pretty much it. :P

[XemaSab]

36. Coke spoons?

Powder cocaine is a rich white man's drug.

Try crack pipes. :eyes:

[jgraz]

43. Sorry, what was I thinking?

We'll be lucky if they don't bring nooses.

[tishaLA]

115. LOL. don't put it past them

[Mooney]

94. In 2004 the Bush campaign used the "most liberal senator" meme against Kerry

They had all of their surrogates repeating this ad nauseum. So no, I don't doubt it at all.

[ProSense]

8. Hillary's Reagan talking point must have been a miserable failure. New:

Obama is ultra liberal.


Mark "Blackwater" Penn and the entire Hillary camp are nuts!

[babylonsister]

18. Now the word 'liberal' is bad, again, thanks, Hill. And what are you, again? nt

[MadBadger]

10. Shes trying to him him from the left and on the right.

[charlie]

12. DLC boilerplate

Here it is finally. She's gonna come out as a full-bore DLCer.

[babylonsister]

16. YES. Good enough reason to revile her. nt

[charlie]

27. This is gonna be reeeeally dismaying

20 years after Dukakis, the DLC is going to re-introduce the Liberal Bogeyman. And hand McCain another issue. He'll do like Poppy and chant LIBERALLIBERALLIBERAL.

It's up to Obama now. If he embraces it, he can defuse it. If he denies it, they'll hit him with it anyway. If he avoids it, he's Dukakis Redux and is doubly fucked.

Thank you Hillary, you lowlife asswipe. I'm so sick of this shit.

[babylonsister]

31. Don't count Senator Barack HUSSEIN Obama out. He is an

honorable man, with no skeletons that I know of despite what people would like to pin on him. He is espousing a whole new way to look at and deal with politics. I'm on board. Why not? It's got to be better than what we've been dealing with. Oh, and pssst, he's charasmatic. He's also wicked smart and knows what he's doing.
Try it, you might like it!

PPS: He's sort of black.

[XemaSab]

38. He grew up in Hawaii.

He has a tan.

What's the big deal? :shrug: :P

[babylonsister]

41. ((Smacks head)) Forgot about that. He's out now. Busted.

:spray:

[charlie]

47. I don't count him out

I'm just really steamed because Hillary just jettisoned her last vestige of decency and is putting Obama, Democrats, and all the rest of us in a shit situation. And herself too. She's a fucking idiot if she thinks she won't get slimed with the same from her Republican buddies if she manages to make "liberal" the radioactive epithet of this campaign.

I've watched Democrats bumblefuck themselves over the mere charge of liberalism for going on 30 years. The only thing that will work, that next to none of them do, is embrace it. Dukakis got a last-minute bounce when he at long last ran ads saying, yes I am a liberal. Howard Dean said sure, I'm a liberal, if a liberal is this, that, and this. I hope Obama will do the same.

That Hillary is taking the old Republican tack of sliming liberals and liberalism is beyond enraging. This is the last straw for me.

[babylonsister]

51. Thanks, charlie.

I know how you feel, and I like you even better because my dad's a 'charlie' too. I know, dumb, but I don't meet too many of them.

Hillary is not impressing Dems, at least here. What's her end game? At this point, I don't care. She's trying to slime Obama enough so she'll be the candidate, and she thinks we will embrace her? :wtf:
I would have a hard time doing that. I hope she doesn't prevail.

[charlie]

56. Thank you too, babylonsister

I'm one of those who wound up behind Obama because he's the only one of the two who isn't Hillary. Every passing day makes it clearer to me that whatever misgivings I have about Obama, the choice I have is between a sober, reflective human being and a deranged DLC assclown.

I'm keen on seeing what Hillarites here have to say about this, now that their champ is going Lee Atwater on their asses.

[lapfog_1]

39. "If Barack Obama is TOO LIBERAL for Hillary Clinton,

you KNOW he is too liberal for our nation."

This will be the new campaign catch phrase for McLame.

Thanks Hill. Yet another reason that you are no longer a Democrat.

[charlie]

49. Yes, exactly

And she's adding fresh impetus to public derision and mockery of liberals. Liberalism: fruitcake. Conservatism: sensible. Liberals: moonbeam idiots. Conservatives: grownups. I've fucking had it with her.

[CitizenLeft]

104. "If he embraces it, he can defuse it."

Absolutely... I hope he does.

[redqueen]

89. How could she not? That is, after all, what she is.

And that explains her dire support on DU. DU has never been overrun by DLC/neoliberal lovefests.

[blogslut]

13. Mark Penn = Charlie Black

What does it say about a presidential candidate when she hires the same PR firm as her republican opponent?

[MadBadger]

15. Im confused. Does he want to bomb Pakistan...or is he to the left of a socialist?

There seems to be a disconnect.

[CitizenLeft]

17. this is just astounding.

I just... wow.

[mythyc]

20. Fuck Mark Penn

one of the many benefits of Hillary's demise is this inconsequential piece of shit will finally wield no political influence whatsoever.

[lligrd]

21. How Much Did Hillary Pay Rove

for his playbook? And where are all those liberals on DU that support Hillary now?

[Cali_Democrat]

22. Hey Mark Penn

[lapfog_1]

25. Nineteen replies so far

and none that show up as "ignored"... WTF???

Did all of Hillary's supporters go away?

Just wondering, don't see them in their ghostly garb all that often here tonight.

No one to explain to us cult members and children that this is just "hardball politics".

[Unsane]

32. They can't defend this.

It's impossible.

[jgraz]

26. HILLARY SUPPORTERS: Let's see you defend this one.

*cricket noise*

*cricket noise*

*cricket noise*

*cricket noise*

*cricket noise*

*cricket noise*

*cricket noise*

[XemaSab]

44. .

[John Q. Citizen]

29. Hillary campaign flip flop. Repos are voting for him/he's the most liberal. Which is it?

[MattP]

30. Liberal is Good.

I'm Liberal and I'm damn proud of it.

[babylonsister]

33. I'm damn proud, too! And Mark Penn telling anyone anything?

Like liberal is a bad word? Bwhahaha!

[Cali_Democrat]

34. This is why Obama is getting so much support from true democrats

He has the most liberal voting record and we know he will stick to his principals where as Hillary is a calculating punk that will sell us out. Thanks for clearing that up.

Also, I thought Obama has NO record and he only has a speech. You mean thats not true? He actually has a voting record that is liberal? All the more reason to vote for him.

[defendandprotect]

40. Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton is D L C . . . Now that's something to worry about --- !!!

Clinton has lost it, in more ways than one!!!

[Tatiana]

45. WTF is wrong with being a LIBERAL? We're all Democrats, right???? UGH. n/t

[melody]

48. I wish -- but it makes me more inclined to vote for him

And less inclined to listen to the DLC (as if I needed to be less inclined).

[Radical Activist]

50. But Joe Trippi and his cronies told me Obama is conservative!

They did it for months and months until Edwards dropped out! Where they lying to us? What gives?

[Hippo_Tron]

52. But if you ask Hillary supporters on DU he's practically a closet Republican

I'm so confused...

[lapfog_1]

54. New day, new talking points memo out.

They all have to turn around so quickly that their little heads will suffer whiplash.

Obama isn't just like a republican... now he's too liberal!!!

You see, he WAS like a republican until Hillary compared McCain favorably to Obama... so he CAN'T be like a republican anymore, cause republicans, like John McCain, have crossed the threshold with Hillary on the whole "C-in-C" thing. So that means he MUST be one of those moonbeam liberals with NO foreign policy experience, none of that Cheney "gravitas". In fact, he is just TOO liberal for the United States of 'murica!

[SunsetDreams]

57. More fear tactics of the "unknown" from Mark Penn

as if anyone should believe a word he says after what he has done.

But at any rate, if there really was that kind of stuff, it would have already been used.

Go away Mark Penn, McCain is calling you.

[johnnydrama]

58. now i'm wondering

If people like Penn are trying to openly sabotage her campaign.

[Nickster]

59. He's setting himself up in his business. He profits if either McCain or Clinton win,he doesn't

profit if Obama wins, so he's stepping up the attacks on Obama. Somehow he's convinced Clinton that's he's working for her.

[against all enemies]

60. The kitchen sink? More like the shit out of the toilet. She throws everything.

She is disgusting and Obama better step up to the plate and knock her down. She is vile.

[Skidmore]

61. You just reminded me to kick my favorite thread. Anyone care to

help me keep this front and center today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4958510

Spotlights this blog report:

http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/mark-penns-tangled-corporate-web.html

[MonkeyFunk]

62. Penn didn't call him that - the National Journal did

and he's right that such a designation would hurt Obama with independents and republicans - and that's exactly what Penn said.

But this will be blown up into something else entirely, because it's what you guys do.

[4themind]

71. Hmm

According to the article, here's the quote attributed to penn
"“People want to have a nominee that’s going to win. So a lot of the things they accepted initially may not hold up. Independent and Republican support is diminishing as they find out he’s the most liberal Democratic senator”

Maybe there's a specific definition for the word "call" that's being used here, but without defining it, there's arguably at least one definition that could fit the word in this situation, from the American Heritage Dictionary(used for the rest of the words here) ie. "to Ascribe a quality to or give a name of a common noun that reflects a quality"

Going from that, hypothetically, even if he himself didn't first call him that term, or referenced a previously conducted study, it doesn't follow, ipso facto, that he did not call him that (at least from one definition of the word here). Perhaps, it would suggest that he wasn't the FIRST to do so. Regardless, I haven't seen sufficient evidence presented for the statement "he didn't call him that" without clarifying modifiers. Of course I can't rule out the possibility that he was misquoted and if so we'll see if Mr. Penn decides to speak out about it.

[Mooney]

96. Dictionaries have a pro-Obama bias. n/t

[rucky]

65. He says it like it's a bad thing.

And I think he's channeling Rush.

[mod mom]

66. THEY ARE TRYING TO BREAK THE PARTY APART! PENN IS A BLOATED POS!

[polichick]

67. Gosh, I hope he IS the most liberal senator - hallelujuh!!!

[seabeyond]

69. i thought dems LIKED liberals. i am so confused..... n/t

[Vinca]

73. But, but, but - I thought that was a good thing.

Another bit of proof Hillary is a DINO.

[mmonk]

74. Relax.

The DLC usually uses the "L" word. Clinton doesn't but the surrogates will.

[WillyT]

75. And He Says It Like That's A Bad Thing...

:evilgrin:

[Barack_America]

98. Well, he is a multi-millionaire union-buster, after all.

I'm sure his vote will be for McCain.

[easy_b94]

77. WOW................

[Bread and Circus]

78. This horrible on so many levels it is quite sad. There is nothing wrong with being a liberal.

It's something we should NOT run away from.

The fact that the Right have beat the Democrats into submission on this in the last 20 to 30 yrs is just a sad, sad affair.

This is just one more piece of proof nothing permanent or lasting will change under Clinton. If we can't even change the national conversation, we can't move the populace.

I'm a sad panda.

[oviedodem]

79. Once again Hilliary destroying the demoratic party

[joeybee12]

80. Another smart move that gets the Obama-bots panties wadded up!

Guess what, being called the most liberal senator is not something you want the people in rural Pennsylvania to know.

[Hepburn]

83. So, it is now OK for Hillary's campaign to slam liberals??

I guess in Hillaryworld...anything goes. Big surprise...NOT!

[joeybee12]

84. Please be original..we started Obama World...try for a different phrase...

...BTW, middle-class working, lower-income Dems are also the base as well...and she's not slamming them and each criticism of Obama is not an "attack."

[ProSense]

93. It's a stupid move! It looks desperate. He can't be a Republican appeaser and an ultra liberal

It's stupid!

[Ken Burch]

117. You can't bash "liberals" during the campaign and then do anything good while in office

Do you want another DLC presidency? Another eight years of a Dem who governs like Newt would?

[Kaylee]

81. Yeah, and....I thought that was the point. What a idiot.

I can't believe the Clinton campaign is pushing the scary "LIBERAL" theme.

[totodeinhere]

82. I have seen some DU posters saying that Obama isn't really a liberal.

But we have it right out of the horse's mouth. Obama is the most liberal senator according to Penn, and that's fine by me. What this country needs right now is an unabashedly liberal president in office who can clean up Bush's mess. Clinton is much too right wing and beholden to corporate interests to get that done. So as far as I'm concerned Penn just gave us one more reason to vote for Obama.

[stillcool]

86. Will there be anyone left

in the "Democratic Base" when the Clinton's are done?

[high density]

87. Penn, et al have already said that independents don't matter

So I don't know why he's using this as a metric to judge Obama by.

[Barack_America]

99. None of us matter...unless we can be of use to the Clintons, that is...

Then we become VERY important...briefly.

[madrchsod]

88. yes he is markie...so what? jealous?

we all know your pet is a classic neo liberal that thinks she knows what is good for us and all those poor nations around the world that does`t worship at her feet. to bad hillary and her neo-liberals are living in the delusion that america can buy it`s way across the world with our money and military might. hillary and your neo-liberal friends those days are over....it`s time to change

[redqueen]

90. Well guess what. We prefer that to NEO-liberal!

So get used to losing, cupcake.

[Iceburg]

91. How would anyone know - he was awol on 41% of the votes

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/votes/missed/

[NoBorders]

92. They've lost liberal base; shoring up Reagan Dems

That's pretty much my summary of their campaign. A significant part of their base are people who would probably vote for McCain over Obama, and their campaign is playing to that group.

[DangerousRhythm]

97. WOW.

This is just too damn much. I read things like this and I wonder why more people aren't hearing about it... where the hell is the outrage at these people? I see it on this forum, but in real life? Not so much. Something has to be done about this. All of these awful incidents need to be compiled and made into a video on Youtube or something.

[krabigirl]

100. I'm actually very surprised that he is, considering some things he's said.

That being said. if he'd voted instead of voting "present" for many of those votes, what would his record look like?

[Exilednight]

101. Call me crazy, but as a liberal I thought this is what I wanted. Am I wrong?

[angie_love]

102. LOL I was thinking the same thing. I'm a liberal I want a liberal president.

Remind me why being a liberal is bad again?

[Strelnikov_]

103. Hell YEA . . GOBAMA!!

[tabasco]

105. OMG Noooooo!!! We can't have a LIBERAL President!!!

After the "conservatives" have done such a brilliant job!!

:scared: Scary Inexperienced Liberal Black Man!! :scared:

[closeupready]

106. And this is a negative how?

???

[JPZenger]

107. NYT: Hillary ordered Penn to stay off TV

Today's New York Times describes how Hillary ordered Penn to stay off the TV because he was embarasing her so badly. Now she is going to have to order him to stay out the print media, also.

[Laelth]

108. Mark Penn is throwing my Party under the bus.

I am furious. :grr:

-Laelth

[bagimin]

109. Sounds good to me..

I'll have to vote for the sonofagun in the Fl. primary!

[eridani]

110. Geez, Mark. You say that like that's a bad thing

Probably true up to a point. From the populist standpoint, things like reforming bankruptcy in favor of little people, real universal health care, real labor and environmental standards in trade deals, etc. never make it out of committee to get voted on in the first place.

[annie1]

111. Mark penn should shut his face. someone else should have brought it up.

[George_Bonanza]

113. Fuck, remember when Hillary was accusing him of being sympathetic to Reagan?

Obama is unfit to be prez, but good to be VP?

Obama is a Reagan fluffer, but also the most liberal senator?

Is there any spur-of-the-moment pandering that the Clintons WON'T do?

[NMMatt]

114. So Penn is now firmly in McCain's camp

Maybe McCain will give her the VP spot.

[Umbram]

116. I'm trying to be shocked. (nt)