I'm just going to come right out and say it--

[Bicoastal]

--this entire debacle is really turning me off of the Democratic Party.

When I turned 18, I voted Gore. Bush stole the election. A harbinger for the ugliness that was about to come.

The year I graduated from college, I voted Kerry. Bush hoodwinked the country into giving him a second term. That's really when I started paying attention to the pervasiveness of dirty politics.

And now this, the year I get my Masters, it's happening all over again--only this time, it seems like the darkness is on our side. I'd never vote GOP, but every day that this continues, I feel myself liking my fellow Democrats less and less.

At the end of the day, is there no real difference? I'm 100% on the side of Dems when it comes to policy, but weren't we supposed to be better than them when it comes to campaigning and falling back on Rovian distortion and flat-out lies? For use on our own fellow Dems, no less--and in the grander sceme of things, our own fellow congressmen? Weren't we the party of unity? The only collective where a black man and a woman can each rise to the top of the heap--only to be shot down by the other's sheer pettiness?

Aren't we the good guys anymore?

Damn. Just damn.

[Inuca]

1. Maybe

you should stop getting your degrees on election years :-).

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. Time is the only cure for inexperience. Honestly, how did you think

our candidates have always been nominated? Conventions, man ... with multiple ballots and lots of wheeling and dealing. Our current primary system is a wonder of democracy by comparison.

So it's not all going your way ... sorry, child, but that's life. And when the process is over and those with the greatest stake have their collective say, we'll get past silly season and on to the general.

And you'll have interesting stories for your own kids. In the meantime, learn some history, because perspective is what you need right now.

[SoxFan]

6. Witha little effort, you could be even more condescending!

[redqueen]

10. "child"?

Why do that? Why belittle someone that way?

*sigh*

[Starbucks Anarchist]

11. At least she didn't post her resume this time.

[Adelante]

24. It's getting to me, too

The condescension. The I'm older, more experienced, wiser, more feminist, smarter, superior in every way -- BLECH. Whatta bunch of goddamned creeps.

[OhioBlue]

20. the OP is working on their Master's Degree

and you're lecturing them on learning a little History?

Nice job encouraging young people to become involved.. :sarcasm:

Maybe next time you should say something like congratulations on you Master's Degree, that is quite an achievement to be proud of. I would like to share my experience with you in previous Primary elections....

why do you have to be so crotchety?

[cali]

22. Someone in their mid twenties is not a child.

They shouldn't be addresed as such. It's demeaning. And you intended it that way. Maybe the "children" should start referring to you in a similarly demeaning way.

[grasswire]

3. do you not realize that many of those who are the most vocal...

...aren't even Democrats? There is a concerted effort by others to split the party, just as there was in 2000 and 2004. Whether the provocateurs are from the left or from the right is immaterial. It's happening.

[MoonRiver]

12. The problem is we're falling into their trap, AGAIN.

You'd think after 8 years of these in your face dirty tricks we'd have learned something. :banghead:

[bowens43]

4. We're at a turniing point.

we can either be the 'good guys' or we can vote for a continuation of the same cut throat, politics of personal destruction that we've had for the last 20 years. Make no mistake, the out come of this primary is every bit as important as the outcome of the GE.

More of the same or do we step up out of the sewer?

[SoFlaJet]

5. this is the part I don't get

From my vantage point I'm seeing the dirty politics coming from the Clinton Campaign with the Obama camp having to always respond. Now if you consider asking for tax returns to be "dirty politics' they are only dirty if there is something dirty in them returns

[havocmom]

7. Stay in the fight. We can't undo decades of damage in a couple election cycles

I know it is hard to accept, but real reform takes time. As far as us being the good guys: Yes we are, we just need to clean our house too and get better candidates, who really represent US, elected. Takes time. Takes work. There is NO magic pill, no messiah candidate, which will vanquish all the bad shit.

Don't give up at your tender age. I haven't at my advanced age! The good fight is a daily fight. Democracy is NOT a spectator sport and constant vigilance is the only way to even give it a chance. For too long, our culture has NOT been vigilant and things have been twisted rather badly.

Is it worth fighting to restore and maintain? I think so. I think YOUR future is worth my staying in the fight for. I really hope you have the same regard for your own future.

[redqueen]

8. We were NEVER the "good guys". We've been the "lesser evil".

That's all.

Many of the progressive platforms in our party were not put there by party stalwarts because they liked and agreed with them, but because we started losing voters to other parties.

That says it all.

[Stephanie]

9. Why don't you take a closer look at the Rovian distortions and flat out lies

Because you're not going to find those on both sides of this battle. Take a close look at where they're coming from. Seriously. There is still a good guy left in this race.

[AllexxisF1]

13. I just don't get it.

The only way Hillary could win is the avert the will of the voters.

How in hell do Hillary supporters not see that. How in God's holy name are they completely blind to the facts that it's over.


She had her shot and now it's time to move on.


Because if they keep at this we are seriously looking at not only losing the election but a real chance of the party being destroyed. Because many people like myself would feel like we have been cheated yet again.

It's not just black voters that will feel cheated, but the majority of all the Democrat voters who voted for him.


All you have to do is see just how bad Hillary alienated our own party to know just how bad she would be in the general election.

[dkf]

15. Yeah having a Clinton to start fights is very bad for our country.

I bet an Obama/Edwards race would have been way more constructive, no matter who was leading.

Its Hillary who is the poison.

[niceypoo]

18. Obama supporters show their support by HATING his rivals

They do not show it by discussing his policy positions EVER.

False Hope.

[Phillycat]

21. Great post.

:thumbsup:

[high density]

23. Stinky poo...

It seems your only purpose here is to rant about how much Obama supporters hate Clinton supporters. Or to try and start flamewars.

Your own comments are hardly above the fray or deep on policy discussion:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4994361#4996864
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5000610#5001075
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4990591#5001283
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4992891#5001136
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4985512#4996993
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4997075#4997324

Welcome to ignore, buddy.

[dkf]

25. I debated "mandates" vs "no mandates" endlessly.

I also posted to support his views on foreign policy and speaking to everyone.

But mostly, what I have discussed is Obama's strategy to gain the majority that can execute policy. I do think it is his main advantage and is a large part of the reason I have hope that we can accomplish our goals with a President Obama.

[grasswire]

26. I already feel cheated.

Someone forced my candidate out months before my primary. He wasn't voted out. He was forced out.

[Barack_America]

14. Bicoastal, if you need a pick-me-up...

...and a reminder of what we're fighting for, forget this place, forget the MSM and consider coming down to volunteer for Obama. Being in the neighborhoods, getting people reengaged, telling people that THIS year will be different because THIS year we have a candidate who got his start in a neighborhood like this...that's what it's all about.

You can PM me if you want.

[printpolitico]

16. party implosion

What is bothering me the most is how far will we go to win. Will we throw the American people under the bus just to romance the Latino vote. Ignore the millions of illegals that continue to take jobs that some Americans would be proud to have, just for votes from the legal Latinos. We ignore immigration issues to a large extent in order not to offend the now legal
immigrants, who some of which may have been illegals themselves at one point.

Maybe we should court the American vote. Those of us who want to stop the flow of illegals and get our country back on track. Stop paying for their hospital visits, and stop giving scholarships to the kids of illegals who have been here for a while, stop giving them the construction contracts that some failing American companies would be proud to have, stop telling us that we have to learn spanish if we wish to communicate effectively in the future, stop shipping our good manufacturing jobs to a country that pays 6.00 a day while importing many more people to take jobs here. Give those scholarships to Americans. Give those jobs to American companies.


Sure some people say they are willing to work longer hours, but that punishes us for growing up in our own country. A country where you could at one time survive on a 40 hr work week. Granted no longer, but we shouldn't be punished because illegals want to work more hours and all live together to cut expenses while they send their money back to Mexico.
They don't mind working because they are going to take two or three months off and go back to Mexico and live like kings.

I would work 12 to 14 hour days everyday too in order to get two to 3 months off a year. We are being punished for wanting what we were raised to believe was the ultimate goal. The American way.
No sweatshops, fair pay, a fair work week, and a gov't that looked out for us. Where is it now?

This is very disheartening and I'm not proud of my party for this.

[niceypoo]

17. Go onto Yahoo political chat sometime if ya wanna see something bizarre....

Obama supporters have joined Republicans there in a Hillary smear/hatred-fest....it was truly disgusting to watch. They were calling her names like, 'Hellary Rottman Cunton,' etc, and it was coming mainly from Obama supporters.

If Obama is anything like his supporters, god help us.

[mtnsnake]

19. Yeah there's a difference. When Dems are in power there is hope for the environment

When repukes take over, they roll back every environmental law that was passed by the previous Democratic administration, as was the case when Bush rolled back almost all of the environmental laws that Bill Clinton passed during his term. Google it and you'll see.

Same for the tax breaks for the rich. Dems make them pay their fair share and the repukes let them get away with murder.

[grasswire]

27. Is that you, Ralph?

Not a dime's worth of difference?