Hillary says NO! (warning graphic)

[grassfed]

More than 50 international organizations, including the International Committee of the Red Cross, the Mennonite Central Committee, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the International Committee to Ban Landmines have called for a moratorium on cluster bomb use. On December 13, 2001 the European Parliament passed a resolution calling for an immediate global moratorium on their use to be followed by an outright ban.

Yet, Hillary Rodham Clinton voted NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

[NightWatcher]

1. post a warning in the title

some people dont like the graphic images at lunchtime

[femmedem]

2. Can you please edit your headline to say "warning, graphic"?

Gives people some warning about what they're gonna see.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

Edited to add: thanks for your edit.

[patrice]

3. I'm seriously considering sending that to some of my "Pro-Life"

acquaintences, without a warning.

[theredpen]

5. Send them a few of these, too

From: http://www.carryabigsticker.com/war_pro_life.htm

[skater314159]

31. Wow. We think waaaaaaay too alike!

Even long distance, you pick up my vibes!



EDIT: NOTICE WE POSTED THE SAME THING, AT THE SAME TIME. CREEEEPY.

[skater314159]

Here's another pic you can send them.

It's a sticker I have had on my truck as long as I've owned it...

[EmilyAnne]

4. That breaks my heart. Barack Obama voted against this, true?

[Bread and Circus]

6. He voted FOR the ban, as did most Democrats. Clinton side with the Republicans on that vote

and voted AGAINST that ban.

Many, many details at http://www.fpif.org/fpifsearch/

Just search under Hillary Clinton.

[skater314159]

7. Thanks Bread,

I was trying to look that one up - and you found it fast!

Thanks for the info.

This is something that MUST be shared with everyone who calls themselves "pro-life" or "a peace activist"... this is NOT something that should be ignored (as it is by the M$M in the US).

[EmilyAnne]

12. Thanks. That's what I thought. I just don't see how that can be defended. Some HRC supporters were

talking about the ban on cluster bombs tying the hands of our military. I think the use of them should be seen as a war crime. Period.

[grassfed]

22. better link

http://www.fpif.org/

[zulchzulu]

8. Does it surprise you that the Monster would vote against cluster bombs?

Monsters are for war. Cluster bombs in civilian areas is just part of the fun.

[HughMoran]

9. She's a MONSTER I tell you - a MONSTER!!!11!!!

She killed that child!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. So By Your Logic, Obama Funding The War Is To Blame For The Child In That Pic As Well?

Cause, like, without the war and stuff, the cluster bombs wouldn't be an issue...

[thewiseguy]

13. Your logic is killing me here!

[EmilyAnne]

15. I read that post and, I swear, my brain started leaking out of my ear. Its the anti-logic!

[thewiseguy]

17. I know...Sometimes you just need to pause and think about what you are saying

I would understand if somebody wanted to do a spin on a political issue but on this matter, when most democrats actually voted for the ban, there is no excuse for Hillary to side with the republicans.

There is no excuse. I cant believe somebody is trying to do a spin on this issue. Its totally mind buggling.

And I cant believe Hillary actually sided with the republicans on this. I thought she was above this stuff.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

25. Yes. Logic Usually Does Hurt The Brains Of Those Who Lack Critical Thinking Skills.

[EmilyAnne]

14. This is about a ban on cluster bombs, dear. A ban on cluster bombs. You think you're being, like,

cute and stuff with your, like, glib response but, see, Hillary voted for both the war and the use of cluster bombs. Leaving Barack Obama completely out of the equation, forgetting that he even exists, HOW the hell can you defend Hillary Clinton on this issue?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. Because I Understand Her Reasoning.

I also understand that her vote otherwise wouldn't have changed a goddamn thing.

[EmilyAnne]

29. So because it wouldn't have mattered for her to vote for the ban, its all the same that she voted

against the ban? Is that why she voted for the IWR, because it wouldn't have mattered otherwise? How is this a defense? Bizarre.

[dchill]

36. Can you spell "triangulation?"

Critical thinking, my ass.

[Strelnikov_]

11. "The dead only know one thing. . .

It is better to be alive."

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grassfed]

18. this isn't the place

to discuss the potential Democratic nominees position on war crimes?

[nomaco-10]

23. Everyone should see this, and ......

also the pictures of the slaughtered bodies littering the landscape of Darfur in the Sudan, the nearly one million bodies mutilated and left to rot in the scorching sun of Rwanda, and then ask themselves, what path should this, the greatest super power in the world take when it comes to these atrocities.
I'm not offended by the photo in this post, I'm more ashamed of the policies the leaders of this country have taken in the past. That's why this time, this election, I choose change.

[L0oniX]

19. K&R

The hypocrisy of the pro lifers is astounding. They care about the fate of the unborn but don't care about national heath care or the innocent victims in Iraq and other places and they also don't give a damn about the security of their own parents and the elderly and they are pro capital punishment as well. They are a nasty bunch of authoritarian predators.

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

20. excellent post. the truth of Clinton's votes matters.

[TahitiNut]

21. Despite my agreement with the ban, it's important to at least be familiar with the rationale for ..

... opposing it.

One word: Korea.

The UN/US/ROK forces have planted extensive minefields along the border of the DMZ ... as a deterrent to an invasion-in-force across the north/south lines. The Pentagon, of course, adamantly defends their deployment of mindfields and use of cluster bombs as necessary to "save American lives." Thus, it's not surprising that a politician seeking to appease the war-mongers and mmacho-militants would avoid supporting such a moratorium.

I personally regard such appeasement of the pro-war militants as moral cowardice. But the rationale needs to be understood.

[Johnny__Motown]

24. I doubt that is a civilian area

[Catherina]

28. Her vote was against a requirement to prevent their use in civilian areas?

This is a war crime.

It doesn't matter if the people are Korean or Iraqi. There's no excuse for this!

UPDATE: Just to be perfectly clear, Senator Clinton voted against banning the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas. Her vote was not against banning the use of cluster bombs altogether. Think about that: Should our military be permitted to use cluster bombs in civilian areas, with each exploding bomb covering the range of a football field? Yes or no? Senator Clinton said yes. Senator Obama said no. Here is the exact text, straight from Senate Amendment No. 4882:

Sec. 8109. No funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act my be obligated or expended to acquire, utilize, sell, or transfer any cluster munition unless the rules of engagement applicable to the cluster munition ensure that the cluster munition will not be used in or near any concentrated population of civilians, whether permanent or temporary, including inhabited parts of cities or villages, camps or columns of refugees or evacuees, or camps or groups of nomads.

http://mediabloodhound.typepad.com/weblog/2008/02/hillary-vs-obam.html

So there can be no doubt on the voting record and an important difference between Clinton and Obama: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00232

Please read that entire link. I understand you're only explaining the rationale but this can't be justified morally. Not even in the case of Korea because the minefields you're talking about aren't in civilian areas.

Click here to go back to the main forums.

[TahitiNut]

30. OK. Understood. Thanks.

:hi:

[Catherina]

32. I'm pleasantly shocked

No snark? No denial? Are there more like you around?

It's a real pleasure to meet you :hi:

[TahitiNut]

33. (lol!) Hey! You composed a strraightforward and clear post.

You provided good information to show the specific dimension of the issue outside that which I'd cited. You didn't stoop to name-calling and accuse me of being a baby-killer (like SOME have). I have no license to attack ... and only resort to it when it's self-defense (and then not all the time).

I like "civil" and eschew the feces-flinging. Peace on! Namaste! :hi:

[Catherina]

26. Thank you. People need to know how morally bankrupt Hillary is

She's number 1, with more contributions than all the other candidates put together, from the weapons industry.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/17/defense-industry-embraces_n_68927.html

Cluster bombs to kill women and children all over the world. What an outrage!

[Tveil]

34. Shame on Hillary!

it never ends with her.

[Swamp Rat]

35. JFC!!!

:cry: