The party is about to split, say hello to President McCain

[nadinbrzezinski]

Yep, it is said that Democrats are very good at making sure they don't win... and for this I blame every so-called leader in the party. Congratulations. In the end it might be a good thing. The party, as it exists right now, has two competing interests that are not compatible and the events of the last week are proving it.

I hate to say it, but perhaps this is what the party needs... to loose YET another national election, to finally realize it needs to work for the good of the people and not a few at the top.

I don't know if the country can survive four more years of the same. In fact, I doubt it. But when we loose in November, you know who to look at and blame? Not Ralph Nader and I know some will try. But at Dean, Clinton and yes Obama.

[Benhurst]

1. Amen!

It is so fucking sad.

:argh:

And guess what? We'll all be going down the tubes, and they'll be doing just fine. I guess that's what being great "leaders" is all about.

[hueyshort]

76. then it might be a good idea for the dem blogs to carve off the Trolls

because they're in here spreading the hate. And they OWN Daily Kos.

[greguganus]

2. If we "loose" don't blame Obama. Blame Clinton for not dropping out. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. I will blame all the kids at the top, and yes EVERYBODY is behaving like spoiled brats

and their partisans are not helping either

[Benhurst]

16. Neither has reached the agreed upon threshold of 2025 elected delegates,

So far Obama is every bit as much a loser as Clinton under the rules she and he agreed to.

If either gets the nomination, he or she is going to have to be pushed over the finish line by super delegates, overriding the votes of elected delegates.

Unless some sort of compromise is reached, or the convention goes for a third choice, whichever "wins" the nomination is going to be crippled going to the general election and it will be both their faults.

The country and the world are far more important than the egos of these two flawed candidates and their all too often fanatical followers.

[greyghost]

22. Well said.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Horribly said.

When a game is called because of rain after the 5th inning, it's awarded to the team leading; not trailing.


:wtf:

[greyghost]

37. It's a statistical dead heat. I know that many here have a problem

understanding that, but in doesn't change the fact.

NEEDED TO WIN: 2025

NO ONES WINS UNTIL: 2025

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. No it isn't.

On a percentage basis it's 53-47 with no MoE.

[greyghost]

46. Sorry, argue with 95% of the talking heads yeasterday.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

53. Sorry. Fact.

:wtf:

I live in Bizarro World! :cry:

[Horse with no Name]

39. This is NOT a baseball game

It is a country.

Obama has outspent Hillary 4:1, he has the grassroots support AND he has the love of the media.

And he still.cannot.fucking.close.the.deal.


Does that not worry you in the LEAST? Oh wait...I doubt it does.

[greyghost]

47. LMAO! How true, how true.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

50. See #49

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

49. A-n-a-l-o-g-y.

4-1? Massive horseshit. 1-1.

-Obama $140,576,911
---Spent $115,636,751
-Clinton $138,048,905
---Spent $108,862,564
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/money/dems.html


Grassroots support? Check.

Media? Only when you're losing.

Closing the deal? It's closed. That's the fucking point!

[greyghost]

52. Remember 2025 2025 2025 2025 2025... The magic number is...

2025

Until then NOTHING is closed.

Get it?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

55. I get it.

[Horse with no Name]

54. Oh he has his 2025 delegates?

Cause THAT is sealing the deal. IF he has to have another candidate DROP OUT to seal it...then he is impotent.
Keep denying the media bias. It just proves that possibly the RW isn't as vile as I thought they were when THEY denied it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

58. Who has more? Who will have more?

C'mon. You can admit it.

Unless you're actually making a case for giving the nom to the person with less? :crazy:

[Horse with no Name]

59. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY THEY HAVE...THEY HAVE TO HAVE 2025

to seal the deal.
Without out...there is NO winner and yer guy CANNOT do it regardless of the advantages he clearly has in this race.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. (Shouting) SO GIVE IT TO THE PERSON WHO HAS LESS?

(Quieter now) Is that your plan? Simple yes/no answer.

YES

or

NO?

[Horse with no Name]

62. It is out of your hands...and out of my hands

These candidates are BOTH flawed and probably not even viable at this point.
Unless either one can close the deal with 2025...this is going to be brokered and totally out of everyone's hands.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

65. Uh-huh. Nice dodge.

:thumbsdown:

[Horse with no Name]

77. Oh so you have powers that nobody else has just by posting on a mediocre message board

that is overrun with obama zealots?
Oh and nice edit...way after the fact.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

83. Yes or no. Not too much to ask.

The edit was to add "Nice dodge" and ":thumbsdown:"

SO GIVE IT TO THE PERSON WHO HAS LESS?
Yes or No?

[ZombieHorde]

67. Medium said.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

69. Can we agree on Medium-Horrible?

I'll throw in a baked potato and a garnish.

[ZombieHorde]

72. I do like baked potatos....

So warm, soft, and yummy.

OK, if you throw in some green onions I will call it Medium-Horrible.

[julialnyc]

68. That's a very Huckabee way to look at it

You don't have to reach the number to see who can mathematically get there the Democratic way

[GoldieAZ49]

3. The DNC is to blame and their assine "rules"

not Dean, Clinton or Obama

they played by or enforced the friggin screwed up rules

[nadinbrzezinski]

Everybody KNEW the rules going in

so that doesn't work

Are they screwed up? Yes, we need a national SINGLE day primary, but that is another matter.

For the moment everybody knew the rules... and no, House rules don't work here

[GoldieAZ49]

25. NO Single day primary that would be worse

and yes they all knew the rules and they all played by the rules

the problem is the rules do not have a way to resolve the situation with two strong candidates

BTW the last brokered convention that the nominee went on to win the white house was FDR in 1932

[roguevalley]

30. FL and MICH knew the rules. they decided to break them and

we're all paying. I agree, NadinB. We need a national primary day.

As for McCain, he'll blow up and people will know. We will win this, I believe. But it won't be pretty. Too bad.

[mudesi]

4. I say blame Clinton

Dean and Obama don't really hold much of the blame for what is happening to the Democratic party right now.

Clinton ought to do the right thing and drop out of the race NOW.

[xchrom]

5. i don't necessarily think schisms are a bad thing.

what makes it sad is what the republick party is -- what it's become -- and they would reap the benefit.

that is more why i think it won't happen as well.

[Yurovsky]

Time for the party to reflect the grassroots ... & move Left

I think the biggest failing of the leadership has been to ignore the will of the voters in 2006.

It's pretty easy to see America has moved Left and will continue to do so. The DLCers & Clintonites are running against the flow of history.

[xchrom]

36. please don't construe my thinking reflecting your own reasoning.

because i blame americans period as much as i blame any one leader.

americans bought into republiconism -- americans gave gingrich, the bug man, and others good reasons for believing the country was on solid right of center footing.

i'd love to vote socialist -- but that isn't going to happen -- and i won't throw my vote away yet.

[kaybea]

74. I see it the same way; the American voter isn't done eating

the Republican shit sandwich.

I see McCain winning and it isn't because of a Dem schism or Clinton or Obama personality flaws.

Americans have bought the Republican brand name, and they're still committed to it even now. For instance, you will hear mouth-breathers still talk about fiscally conversative Republicans as if they exist, as if Raygun and Bu$h I and II weren't responsible for trillions of debt among them.

The Republican brand name hasn't fallen far enough yet in the political discourse. They own the "memes" so to speak.

[Horse with no Name]

43. Neither candidate will move us left

so your argument is completely flawed.

[Yurovsky]

48. I would venture to guess Obama would be more likely to ...

although HRC was certainly a progressive when she first emerged from Yale. Somehow the years at WJC's side has moved her further and further to the right (I like to blame Arkansas, but that's just me).

I like to believe that down deep her conscience would bring her back home to her roots.

[Horse with no Name]

56. I would venture to say you are wrong

obama wants unity...that unity is going to come at a steep price and the ones that will pay that price are the ones on the Left.
For chrissakes...he visibly SHUDDERS at the word liberal.
Take off those glasses man...yer guy isn't taking us left. With any luck at all he won't take us further right.

[Yurovsky]

61. Actually "my guy"...

is running for re-election to Congress.

Being right really didn't help Dennis much though, did it???

[blogslut]

7. The party will be fine

It's Hillary Clinton who needs to split.

[Vinca]

8. You could be right and it's too bad.

If any other candidate lost 11 straight races and was behind with no chance of getting to 2025, they would have bowed out gracefully.

[TheZug]

9. It won't split if . . .

. . . the candidate with the most elected delegates, votes, and states receives the party's nomination.

http://iwillwalkaway.blogspot.com

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yeah but it seems machines are concerned about that

so '68 is possible... and last '68 we lost power for a generation

[roguevalley]

31. there will be rioting in denver if they pull a stunt. a lot of new people

came aboard they won't be thwarted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Just like... '68... yep that is my fear

and why I keep saying this MIGHT be trouble.

And the only winners, the GOP

[Whisp]

10. I put it squarely on the Clinton faction.

wtf is Obama supposed to do? quit because Hillary is not amused?

By far he is running the more effective and cleaner campaign so why should he be lumped into the manure pile that Hillary is rolling around in?

and I can't blame Dean for the idiots in MI and FL who are responsible for that mess.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. Today's actions have split it for me

the godawful behavior of Obama supporters here over this Spitzer thing proves to me that these people aren't Democrats at all.

They don't care that this hurts ALL democrats - they're just high-fiving and acting like freeper scum.

I won't vote for their guy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. It is PARTISANS for BOTH SIDES that are behaving in despicable

fashion

Not just one side.

Helps to be an OBSERVER any longer

[CyberPieHole]

80. Welcome to the club...

I won't vote for Obama...though I won't vote for McCain.

[txaslftist]

14. Naw. Outside of DU and Kos things are much better.

I caucused in Texas with a bunch of brand new Democrats. They are sick to death of Bush and the GOP. They'll vote for whichever person we nominate, as will most Dems.

Things aren't half as bloody out in the world as they are here in the blogosphere.

If the blogs determined anything of substance, we'd be running against Ron Paul.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Yeah, but it is the bloggers who are very active

and talk to their pals

I will hold my nose and vote for either, but don't count on not having another '68 debacle... due to BAD leadership

Dean should have talked to BOTH campaigns before it got this bad

[txaslftist]

26. ...and talk to their pals ... IN BLOG WORLD.

I think this mutual vetting is probably good for Obama, who will most likely be our nominee. He's a good fighter, a good speaker, and he's gaining a lot of ground among Indies and Pubbies who haven't (before now) been able to learn much about him. Hillary couldn't have orchestrated a better way of introducing him to the electorate while slitting her own electoral wrists. She's made a bit of a caricature out of herself as the "woman scorned"; hell hath no fury and all that ...

Meanwhile McCain can't even BUY TV time in prime time. So long as the horse race continues, HRC and Obama will be getting hours of free exposure to the peeps while McCain sits in the background. In November the voters may not know who to vote for, but they'll definitely know a lot about the choices.

[Swamp Rat]

15. We weren't 'unified' in the first place.

We're a diverse, ragtag, loosely associated group of free thinkers - typical Americans.

It's authoritarians who are easily unified... though, they always end up in the ash bin of history.

[Auntie Bush]

17. Mostly Obama because they are the ones who first started throwing RW shit at Hillary.

If they had just played fair and reported facts instead of slinging Right Wing filth at one of our own Dems this wouldn't have happened. I hope they feel good at causing the defeat of Dems. But, they love to blame it on Hillary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Hate to break this to you but it is BOTH SIDES

not one, but BOTH.

[greyghost]

23. True

[Auntie Bush]

34. Yes...it's both sides NOW. But Obamites STARTED it.

Hillary supporters jumped on the sick wagon in defense of all the hateful Hillary posts. Don't you remember?

[Raine]

45. "he started it first" that sounds like what I said

to my mother when I was 10 yr and fighting with my brother. My mother would say "I DON'T CARE WHO STARTED IT FIRST, WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHO IS GOING TO STOP FIRST!" I don't believe it was Obama but at this point (whoever it was) IT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. What he said

why I said both sides are behaving like spoiled children

[BlueJac]

18. Dump DLCers.....

That might be a start to mend the party.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. As an OBSERVER, it will be the left that will finally be thrown out

and they have been trying to do this for a decade or so

[txaslftist]

28. Naw, they never toss us all the way overboard.

They just tell us to shut up and sit in the corner, like the GOP does to the Xtian right. We pretty much grumble and obey.

[greyghost]

38. Good analogy.

[Horse with no Name]

44. Difference is

They pander to the x-tian right.
I cannot remember the last time I was "pandered" to.

[txaslftist]

51. No? How about all the anti war stuff in 2006?

That was the party pandering to the antiwar left. After the election they promptly forgot all that crap and got down to the serious business of divvying up the spoils in DC.

[Horse with no Name]

57. You are right

I forgot the anti-war pandering. I also forgot the impeachment pandering that Conyers did WHILE we were the minority party.

[txaslftist]

63. O hell, I never took that impeachment stuff seriously.

They never intended to seriously consider impeaching the Presnit and his co-conspirators. That was pure flak for rubes.

[redqueen]

42. Correction - they've done it.

Will they try to pull the left back in after they're dumped, as has happened in the past?

Stay tuned...

[DearAbby]

24. These are like growing pains...

the party had shifted so far right, the shift back to center is a painful one. In a way I see this as good. It will strengthen the party, if we can hold together. It also defines us as a party, where we stand on the political spectrum. It's painful, and scary in many ways. We have to all remember, we are on the same side, we all want what is best for this country. We all want what is right...should I Left? :-D

[cbayer]

27. Current polling data just does not support your premise

Despite the hostility at DU, democrats in general overwhelmingly state that they would vote for either candidate. And these same polls also say that either candidate would beat McCain at this point. And 57% of democrats think that the race being undecided at this point is good for the party.

http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/398.pdf

Contested elections bring out both worst and best in candidates and their supporters. We are just seeing a disproportional amount of the worst here at DU.

[jpak]

29. DU is not the party - and it will not split this November

There will be a D sworn-in as prez come Jan 2009...

[Not the Only One]

33. The only way we will be hurt in November

Is if Hillary keeps sticking shivs in Obama. She could have run an honorable campaign and there wouldn't be much difficulty in uniting the party in the Fall.

[maxrandb]

35. We don't win anything by running as "Republican Light"

Jeezus! We have a chance to put a fricking dagger into the "effing" heart of the vampire Repuke Party and place them in the margins of power for another generation...and people are bitching about who gets to shove the stake-in

There isn't a Democrat in their right mind that would support McCain over either one of our candidates.

If they would support McCain instead of either Clinton or Obama, they have a mental illness, (ie. they are Conservatives) and we don't need them.

My God people! Think! No matter who our candidate is, when debate time comes, you're going to see a bright, energetic, healthy, smart, articulate, inspiring candidate appealing to the greatness of our country...on the other side, you're going to see a pasty, ill-tempered, crotchety old man yelling at you to stay off of his lawn.

McCain is so "effing" beatable, it's not even funny. Oh sure, the MSM will do their best to try to make it look like it's going to be a really close contest, but look at the numbers and the excitement on the Dem side. We're pulling 2 or 3 to 1, and in some cases as much as 4-1,...and you're worried about what exactly?

The Repub party has so "dicked" over this country, that they are going to have a hard time being elected "dog-catcher" in this country.

We're scared from the 30 year bashing from the right wing nutcases. We need to embrace our Democratic principals, be proud of them, ignore the "effing" talking heads, and run as "fricking" Democrats

[redqueen]

40. I don't know if it's about to split...

but if it is, then I will be looking to focus on the bright side... which will hopefully be either an improved Dem party platform, or a third party taking the place of the Dems.

[ajamo]

64. Party Split

I don't think so. Just because our party people in our state of Michigan don't mean we will be split.
However Hillary should use her brains before she opens her mouth.
I read her book and she did work for B. Goldwater during his run for President, and wasn't he Republican?
then Limbaugh is pushing her to bloody Obama because they know how the people will vote in November.
Obama will get more votes both ways than McCain, Mc Bush whatever they call him. Hillary will be defeated. Back the hell up woman. Don't you have enough, what have you done since being in the Senate. Woodstock got money (pork)

[Seabiscuit]

66. I think this is a call for all of us to get our act together but I don't think the

party is split just yet. The greatest fear that we all should have is what you said "I don't know if the country can survive four more years" if the Republicans win. How very true. :kick:

[Qanisqineq]

73. it hasn't split yet?

I stay out of this cesspool people call GDP for the most part. Whenever I do venture in I find thread after thread about how Obama supporters will not vote for Hillary if she were to get the nomination because she is a racist bitch. Then I read thread after thread about how Hillary should get the fuck out of the democratic party -- and her supporters, too. I am a Hillary supporter -- apparently Obama supporters don't want my vote. If Obama wins the nomination and loses the GE, don't blame me because I was told Hillary supporters were to get the fuck out of the party.

After Edwards suspended his campaign I was undecided between Obama and Clinton. Then I started to lean Clinton. Then I became a supporter but still liked Obama and would have been happy with him as the candidate. Now, it apparently doesn't matter because I can't possibly be a democrat if I support Hillary.

If that is what he inspires in his supporters, I don't want any part of it.

[robertpaulsen]

75. Fuck that. Blame the sheeple for their fucked-up priorities.

IF the people of this country are too goddamned stupid to understand the difference between McSame and either Obama or Clinton because their too blinded by perceived inadequacies or deficiencies in a fucking campaign to understand the 180 degree difference in values and policies, then the American people deserve everything it's asking for. They deserve to see their sons and daughters continue to die needlessly in Iraq, and Iran as well because you don't bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran without a little fucking blowback. They deserve to lose their jobs to the depression and max their credit cards on $7 a gallon gas and $10 a gallon milk due to hyperinflation. They deserve to have fascists entrenched in SCOTUS for the next generation because they would rather lose their liberty if it means saving a zygote in this overpopulated cesspool. They deserve a social security system as flimsy as a 401k and a health care system that puts profits ahead of saving lives. They deserve all this and more because they put more time and thought into their voting choice for American Idol than they do their American President. Quit making scapegoats, trading Nader for Dean, Clinton or Obama doesn't address the root issue: to paraphrase George Carlin, the American people would rather have a cell phone that makes pancakes than rock the boat and unseat TPTB. :rant:

[DemVet]

78. Attention Fellow Democrats: THE PARTY IS NOT GOING TO SPLIT. IT IS FINE!!!

This is the way it's supposed to happen, people. Candidates running neck and neck down the backstretch to the finish line. This campaign is not near as nasty as some in the past. Everything is going to be OK after the convention: the sun will rise in the east, baseball season will be in full swing, and we will ALL back the Democratic Nominee, no matter who that is. OK?

[meow mix]

79. i blame the "Old Guard" for not allowing the party to go to the next generation.

old people would rather see the party destroyed first. they are bitter and self absorbed.

[Life Long Dem]

81. McCain flies off the handle for no reason at all way too easily.

I'd have to know a lot more about him than I know now. Which probably won't happen but as it stands now, I cannot trust him in the presidency position.

He flew off the handle and then gave an answer anyway.

[kwenu]

82. This post is silly. Split over what? Support between two different candidates? Get real.

We'll get behind the nominee as soon as that person is established.


Or Hillary drops out. Whichever is first. LOL!!!!

Seriously, we'll support the nominee. Stop being so dramatic.

[qnr]

84. Hello President McCain n/t

!