Clinton got 55% of the vote in MI and 50% in Florida...

[rateyes]

and, it's pretty well documented that in Michigan, in a do-over, Obama would win easily. In do-overs in MI and FL, it's a good bet that, given the number of delegates needed to secure the nomination would increase, and how delegates are proportioned that Clinton would not pick up enough delegates to even dent Obama's lead.

So, why don't we just save the time, money, and trouble of "do-overs" and seat the delegates in this proportion.

MICHIGAN--Clinton gets 50% of the total (taking away 5% because she was the only one on the ballot, and in a do-over she would get less) and Obama gets 50%

FLORIDA--Same thing---both on ballot---Clinton got 50% In a do-over, only she and Obama would be on the ballot. So, 50/50 split, which, btw, conforms to party rules.

Clinton might as well get used to the notion that the states won't be seated according to the elections that broke party rules. And, she knows that do-overs won't help her. The only scenario that helps her is to seat them the way they stand, and it.isn't.going.to.happen.

Wake up and smell the coffee, Ms. Clinton. You are not going to be the party's nominee. The writing is on the wall. Accept a 50/50 split, let the delegates be seated, and appease MI and FL voters for the sake of a Democrat being the next POTUS.

[loveangelc]

1. It's well documented that he would win MI in a do-over? I thought it was like OH?

or is it more like wisconsin?

[Radical Activist]

4. Clinton was supposed to win Ohio by 20 points

remember?

[izzybeans]

2. She ran against herself. 55% is a poor showing.

[JuniperLea]

8. No, she ran against Edwards... eom

[stahbrett]

15. Edwards was not on the ballot in MI (nt)

[Hoof Hearted]

21. Stahbrett, why don't you tell us who was on the ballot. Do you know?

[izzybeans]

25. Here you go.

The Republicans blocked an attempt to list them all anyway.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071127/NEWS06/71127028

[JuniperLea]

30. So... how is it fair to even use these states?

"Four Democratic candidates - Joe Biden, John Edwards, Barack Obama and Bill Richardson – have opted out of the Michigan primary because its early date violates national party rules."

If Obama "opted out" how can it be fair to "opt back in"?

[izzybeans]

33. It's not. It's a lie that it is fair.

Counting them is bowing down to Republican dirty tricks.

[Medusa]

37. Some here would prefer it if Hillary was the only candidate on the

Dem ballot in EVERY state. :eyes:

[goldcanyonaz]

17. There was a campaign to vote uncommited, or perhaps you missed that.

[skipos]

19. Do you live in MI? Most people were confused as hell about the primary

and not aware of this "campaign" you speak of. Thousands of write ins were discarded, and it is pretty obvious that a lot of people, supporters of ALL candidates, stayed home.

Anyone who considers MI anything close to a real primary is an idiot. It was a fiasco, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I think Hillary Clinton is a bad candidate and a bad human being. If we redo our election and Hillary wins 100% of the vote, I won't bitch. But I will actively campaign against anyone who wants to give her 55% of the delegates based on our faux primary.

[goldcanyonaz]

22. Fromer resident of Royal Oak, MI and still have property there.

Can't even give our property away, praying that Michigan has a turnaround soon.

[izzybeans]

24. I'm not sure how that would change what I said.

[SKKY]

18. Yea, that's like 45% of the population saying...

"There's no one else running, but if there were, they'd be better than you!"

[Alter Ego]

48. When you run against no one

and cannot even get 60% then something is wrong.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Wasn't edwards part of that mix?

[rateyes]

6. Yep. My bet is Edwards would go along with it.

He is a good Democrat.

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. Giving all of his votes to Obama?

[rateyes]

23. yep

[ellacott]

44. Edwards also took his name off the ballot

[goldcanyonaz]

5. It's not well documented at all that Obama would win Michigan. Where do you get this stuff?

As a former resident of Michigan, the economy is the only thing that matters for the majority of Dems there. The streets are getting ready to be rolled up, and the last one left won't have to turn off the lights because the power will be cut soon.

[ellacott]

45. There were exit polls that indicated that he may have won

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/01/17/polls_say_obama_would_have_won_michigan/4726/

[Pathwalker]

7. ASS-U-ME.

n/t

[tandem5]

9. assuming results in place of actual elections - how uh very democratic of you nt

[Lucinda]

11. Last polling I saw on re-voting in MI had them tied, and he was losing by 16 in Florida.

So your 50/50 doesn't cut it for Florida.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/michigan/election_2008_michigan_democratic_presidential_primary

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/florida/election_2008_florida_democratic_primary

[CindyKay]

12. In Florida

There was a Closed Primary ( Closed Primaries Disenfranchise Voters Too ), I Live in Fla. & I am an Independent . Everyone knows that Independents have been supporting Obama.There were also Plenty of Dems who stayed Home because they were told the Vote Would Not Count.Florida is not a Given for Hillary.Especially after Her Current Behavior like Mocking Obama & Her Inappropriate Backhanded way of Endorsing McInsane.

[WyLoochka]

13. It's not about the voters

It's about the super dels from those states. So said Chuck Todd just now. He might have a point here.

The pledged delegates would barely move either way with a revote, says Todd. But there are 53 super dels in MI and FL and she might brow beat them into supporting her as re-payment for her eager willingness to throw what little integrity she had to the wind in order to achieve a pyrrhic victory that would be doomed to lose in November. They'd spin it that she was some kind of "champion" of the people when actually the current back room talk is nothing more than a disingenuous play for the super dels, not the regular folks in either state.

It's all about the Clintons and a small group of DC denizens retaining power so they can stay on the gravy train run by the insurers, big pharma, credit card cos, pension stealing corps, securities fraudsters, military contractors and other scam artists.

[dansolo]

16. I don't see the superdelegates being allowed to vote

Even if Hillary were awarded the delegates based on the sham primaries, there is no way in hell that the DNC will allow the superdelegates to vote, since they were the ones who started the whole mess.

[Barack_America]

46. She'll get some, not others. She'll never get Conyers, for example.

And hey, guess what, Kwame Kilpatrick is a superdelegate. He'll go for Obama too, I'm sure. Conyers would see to it.

Levin, I'm hoping, will fall into "party-elder" mode.

[DemVet]

14. We may as well get used to the fact that the DEMS in MI and FL

are all going to be pissed off come the GE. That's what concerns me.

[StevieM]

20. The voters in FL and MI could care less about random people from their states going to some

convention in Denver. They want to influence the process.

Steve

[Zynx]

26. It's well documented that Obama would win a Michigan do-over easily?

There has been zero documentation on that.

[LittleClarkie]

27. Many people didn't vote knowing it didn't count. Would you disenfranchise them?

A revote it the only solution.

[snappyturtle]

29. I think it's a gift to give MI and FL a 50/50 delegate split....they'd be

seated. eom

[LisaL]

35. Yea, that's just great.

WTF should someone who didn't earn 50% of the votes get 50 % of them?
In FL Obama's name was on the ballot, he got nowhere near 50 % of the vote.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. Obama only got 26% in FL why should it be divided 50/50?

[Vinca]

38. To account for the 20 points he has routinely gained after going

into a state where Hillary leads and campaigning. That's the crux of the whole argument. Hillary Clinton was a well known person to everyone in Florida because she had been First Lady for 8 years. Obama was not nearly as well known. That is why they have campaigns - to introduce the candidates. Awarding the current split would be unfair for that reason. If it happened to be Hillary with the 26% would this arrangement seem fair to you?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

39. wrong..the crux of the matter is simply FL had a CLOSED Primary.......

Obama only gets more votes in OPEN caucuses where 1 time Rethug crossover voters give him the lead....these 1 time Rethug crossover voters will NOT be there for him in the GE in Nov......and then McCain will win.

that's just the facts

[Vinca]

40. If Hillary had the 26% would you feel the same way? nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

42. yes

[knixphan]

28. once he gets the nom,

O can go to those states and re-connect with the democratic base without having to deal with defending against Hill. They'll be fine in November.

[AJH032]

31. Obama would win Michigan easily?

according to what?

[Barack_America]

47. A new Rasmussen poll shows them tied.

41-41.

And you know that we're more like Wisconsin than Ohio. So if Obama gets a chance to campaign in Michigan, he should pull ahead.

http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=39603&cat=5

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. Obama got 26% FL

[LisaL]

34. Well, that's a bunch of balooney.

Well documented Hillary would lose in MI?
Well documented by whom and where?
Care to provide some evidence for that statement, or you just talking out of your behind?

[GodlessBiker]

41. She doesn't care about the elected delegates. She wants the Super Delegates in those states.

[SoCalDem]

43. It's probably more about the extra delegates that are assigned county by county

and by the sooopers..

right no all the soooopers and at large delegates are "poof-gone"... a 50-50 split does not solve that problem, and she reallllly wants them