Since FL and MI are apparently going to have a revote, any popular vote count that includes....

[scheming daemons]

..their January numbers is fraudulent and a LIE.


Since both of them will revote, we have only ONE popular vote number that matters:


Obama is up by 620,000+ votes.

[BeatleBoot]

1. No Re-Vote in Michigan...

http://video.woodtv.com/?video_id=10913


Obama Campaign, Clinton Campaign, Dem Party in Negotiations....

[SharonRB]

2. A final decision has not been made yet

They're trying to figure out a way to do a mail-in ballot.

[BeatleBoot]

5. Closed door negotiations continue...

and no one can find the money to pay for it.

And the Obama campaign is on record not wanting a re-vote.

Plus it takes 9 to 10 months to plan a primary or caucus.

A mail in ballot won't work. Wouldn't even appear fair.

And so it goes....most likely to Denver....

[johnnydrama]

3. actually

+ 50,000 tonight. Then plus 100,000 for the 4 states not counted.

Then you figure out if you count the Texas Caucus too.

So it's anywhere from 770,000 to 900,000

[Tribetime]

14. could be 80-90,000 tonight

[Johnny__Motown]

4. CNN just went to commercial saying that they had some new info on redo

In Florida

[madfloridian]

6. Both candidates must approve...

completely.

[Johnny__Motown]

7. Florida talking about redo by mail.. but house delegation is against it

[Johnny__Motown]

8. Even if they (we) don't redo the numbers still don't count

The contests won't count. The delegates won't be seated. The numbers don't count.

[SharonRB]

10. You're right

Until we have a recount or reach some other agreement nothing should be included in any of the counts for Florida or Michigan.

[elixir]

9. If they're going to have a revote, of course, they wouldn't include the January #s. Duh.

[madfloridian]

11. Don't forget....30 day comment period, both candidates must agree.

Dean was in AL today and made it clear:

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=8001507&nav=menu33_2

"Dean says the rules won't change. "My job is for those people who don't win that they go away believing that they were treated fairly. So, the first thing is, we can not change the rules in the middle of the game. We can't change the rules on super delegates in the middle of the game and we can't change the rules on admitting primaries that were not proper in the middle of the game."

Dean says the two states can petition the party for a "do over" election but he says the delegates won't be seated without the consent of both political campaigns.

Howard Dean was in Birmingham earlier Tuesday for a luncheon and attended a fundraiser in Montgomery Tuesday night."

And more about the details of the long time it would actually take:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/10/politics/politico/main3923078.shtml

"Under the plan now being considered, Florida voters would receive mail-in ballots, with return postage, in mid-May and possibly face a late May or early June deadline for returning them, the state official said. Before it could be implemented, the mail-in plan would need to be voted on by the state party before heading to the Democratic National Committee for final approval, the state party official said.

The DNC would then conduct a 30-day public comment period before allowing the state party to move forward. If approved, the state party would then need at least three weeks to verify the mailing addresses of the 4 million Democrats who reside in the state before ballots could be sent.

Florida officials had been studying alternate voting methods well before the current controversy erupted, affording them a familiarity with mail-in voting even though the state does not typically conduct its primaries by that method."

[dansolo]

13. I hope that means what I think it meas

It sounds like Dean is saying that no matter what happens with the MI and FL primaries (use the existing tallies or a re-vote) that the superdelegates will not be seated.

[madfloridian]

18. He said existing tallies would NOT be used.

He made that very clear on two Sunday shows. Only if a revote is submitted to the DNC, approved by the rules committee, then presented to the candidates...can any delegates be seated.

Dean said he wants to seat them at the convention...he said this was the only way they could be "counted."

I don't know about superdelegates, but I think if the redo is held, they will count. Everyone seems confused.

[joshcryer]

20. Yep, if Obama doesn't want them seated they won't be seated.

We went over this before this was even an issue. Obama is the only one stopping them from being seated.

[IntravenousDemilo]

12. The Democratic Party could have avoided this trouble if it had just let FL and MI have their primary

votes when they damned well felt like it.

[stahbrett]

15. You have that backwards

FL and MI could have avoided this trouble if they had followed the rules (which they agreed to, by the way), and kept their primaries on their original dates.

[IntravenousDemilo]

21. Who decided to move the primaries anyway? Was there interference from outside the party...

...I mean, like the current Republican governor in the case of Florida? If so, then you're right. If not, I think it should be the right of the individual states to decide.

Myself, I think you should have all the primaries and caucuses on one day, perhaps a nice day in June. And it would be a good idea to prohibit any kind of fundraising or politicking until January 1 of the election year, too, to allow legislators to actually do their jobs for a while without the distraction of having to run for the next election as soon as they're in office. But that won't happen, because politicians are all about the money and the power.

[stahbrett]

22. A Democrat introduced the bill in the Florida Senate

And the vote to implement the plan in Florida passed by a razor-think 115-1 margin - obviously the Democrats contested the move mightily! :)

Hillary would have loved to have a single day for all primaries/caucuses, as would any other candidate with a large name recognition advantage and a lot of the party establishment support.

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. So, if there is no revote, is not including those numbers fraudulent and a LIE?

:shrug:

[HooptieWagon]

17. Less than 50/50 chance of revote in FL, even by mail.

No money...

I don't know about MI

[madfloridian]

19. The "as is" numbers will not be counted. Don't forget Monday's hearing..

in Atlanta. It is being heard on appeal, and could go to the Supreme Court.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1897

[nyccitizen]

23. Please note: Obama could seat ML/FL as-is and still win pop vote/del count

As of tonight, Obama is up 50k+ votes in the popular vote INCLUDING the January votes in FL *and* Michigan (!) where he received *zero* votes because his name wasn't on the ballot.

Clinton will likely win PA by a decent margin, but Obama could also easily offset those gains in NC/IA/OR. As of now, Obama leads by 120+ delegates (including committed superdelegates). Seating FL & MI as-is, even holding to the preposterously unethical scenario where Obama gets literally 0 delegates from MI and Clinton gets 78, would only net Hillary 111 delegates. If Obama can keep her from netting more than 10 delegates through 5/20 (a very possible scenario), he could win both the popular vote and the delegate count without getting a single delegate or vote from Michigan.

Even though by any standard of fairness he should be awarded the 55 "uncommitted" (aka anti-Hillary) delegates from Michigan, he might not even need them.

If by 6/1, after Puerto Rico votes, he leads in both delegates and popular votes with this scenario, he should press to seat the FL/MI as-is and prevent a re-do which might give Clinton a "second" win in FL and lots of national attention right before the convention.