Florida House Dems refuse revote. Dean resolute. Sad part...original primary day was March 11.

[madfloridian]

It is past time for this situation to be put in perspective of how it played out. It has been so frustrating to only see one side here. Maybe now a few folks here will wonder why some of the loudest Florida Democrats don't want that revote after all.

To the extent that both sides hold out hope that Howard Dean will allow some sort of compromise, it just does not seem as if either side knows Howard Dean. He has said that there are only two options: that the delegations take their fight to credentials committee, or that they attempt to vote again, provided that said vote is approved by the DNC's rules and bylaws committee. There are no other alternatives. He did not say: "There are no other alternatives, except for the other other alternative, which is some extra-juridical solution that involves a backroom deal."

The Atlantic..FL and MI

More from Marc Ambinder at the The Atlantic.

A Snag For Proponents Of A Redo In Florida

The joint statement by House Democrats in Florida opposing Florida 2.0 represents a victory by the Obama campaign, which has, as a matter of tactics, tried to add a layer of uncertainty to the ongoing discussions between the state Democratic Party and the Democratic National Committee.

The statement comes as the state party is putting the final touches on draft language for a statewide mail-in primary; its officials and attorneys are working closely with lawyers for the DNC. (No formal agreement has been reached within the party to actually proceed with a re-vote.)

DNC officials stress that Howard Dean is as resolute as ever: he is not going to compromise and there is no formal mechanism even if both campaigns "agree" ... the only routes are the rules committee process or a rules-and-bylaws committee sanctioned re-vote.

Florida Democrats used to be frustrated. They're now panicked, feeling pressure from elected officials, activists, donors and candidates. They're fighting among themselves over who is to blame and there is no agreed upon end-game. Many believe that the Obama campaign is unnecessarily pressuring its supporters to throw up roadblocks

Maybe it is a good thing that Howard Dean offered the revote. Now that the Florida Democrats are perhaps turning it down...some of the blame will finally be put on them. It was theirs in the first place anyway.

People might wonder why, if the revote was offered...they are turning it down here in Florida. Maybe what goes around comes around.

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war

House Republicans and Democrats passed the earlier primary bill (HB 537) by a 115-1 vote - a challenge to the national parties that are wielding threats in an attempt to prevent a nationwide race for earlier and earlier primaries.

.."Florida lawmakers believe the state's demographic and political diversity merit a greater say in the selection of nominees. They're tired of candidates treating the fourth-largest state as a fundraising ATM, only to take the money to campaign in small states like Iowa and New Hampshire. And they say they are willing to call the bluffs of the national parties, which have threatened to take away delegates the state parties send to the nominating conventions. National Democratic Party rules could even punish candidates who campaign in states that move their primaries earlier than Feb. 5 by essentially not recognizing the state's delegates.

"The state can move its primary date but there are automatic sanctions," said Luis Miranda, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee. "The rules have been adopted and we will enforce the rules."

I remember this threat to Dean and the DNC from early on. They threatened him with a voting rights investigation.

.."The state's congressional delegation also sent a letter to DNC Chairman Howard Dean threatening a voting rights investigation in response to sanctions. However, national Democratic officials insist there is no legal basis to force the party to seat delegates in violation of its rules, and Nelson could not say what law the DNC would be violating or where the case could be pursued."

I believe that is the gist of the court case that is being heard next Monday in Atlanta.

[skooooo]

1. I don't think Florida revote is going to happen...

[madfloridian]

2. I hope not.

There was precedent for it being offered, Dean said on Sunday. So I guess he felt he had to do it to be fair.

[Changenow]

61. Hillary does not want it

Her only position is that the bogus delegates be seated.

[dsc]

70. Your own article says the exact opposite

It is Obama's campaign that doesn't want a revote.

[madfloridian]

3. CNN Commentary: Florida, Michigan don't deserve revote. Roland Martin.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/12/roland.martin/

"(CNN) -- For two weeks we have watched nearly every political hack from Michigan and Florida hit the airwaves to tell us that voters in those states deserve to have their votes counted, and new elections should be called for and paid by­ the Democratic National Committee.

One word they all keep tossing around is disenfranchisement. Because of this nation's sordid history on the issue of denying African-Americans the right to vote, those calling for a revote know the true power of the word, and just uttering it sort of backs the opposition up.

But folks, I'm sorry. Knowing full well how the two political hacks --­ also called governors of Michigan and Florida -- deliberately chose to ignore the Democratic Party rules and try to leapfrog the other states, I just don't have any compassion for them. Just listening to Jennifer Granholm of Michigan and Charlie Crist of Florida whine and complain on national TV is just too much.

They keep blaming Howard Dean, chairman of the DNC, for this debacle. But he's not to blame. They could have vetoed the bill, or told their state legislatures to stop the grandstanding and get on with the people's business. But they chose otherwise.

..."Yes, I do feel sorry for the voters in those two states because their votes should have mattered. It would have been great had they counted. But it was the elected officials in both states who chose to go down this terrible path. Had they just remained where they were, their delegates may have made the difference in this close presidential race between Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton."

[Johnny__Motown]

5. Fuck him, the voters in MI and Fl deserve to have their/our voices heard

If it can be done within the rules that is

[elixir]

42. Oh please, Roland Martin?

[On the Road]

4. I Can't Understand Why Obama is Throwing Up Roadblocks

He's much better off letting the vote go through and allowing Clinton to have some additional delegates rather than playing an obstructionist role and having the entire process called into question.

I believe Dean has handled it perfectly.

[madfloridian]

6. The House Dems in Florida were the biggest obstacle.

Of course Obama might throw up roadblocks...it's politics they tell me. When Hillary does it, it's politics. When Obama does it, it's wrong? I don't think so.

And I agree...Dean has done the best he could with major Dems on TV lying every day about him.

I hope we can heal from all this in Florida. I believe Obama might come close to winning here if another vote happens.

[On the Road]

19. I'm Not Comparing Obama Unfavorably with Clinton

I think supporting the existing slate of delegates is much more troubling, especially in Michigan where there was only name on the ballot. I am completely aghast at how many people here support the existing results.

The goal should be to get a full clean list of delegates from all states without abandoning all party rules or accepting tainted votes. Blocking efforts to include Florida compounds the problem rather than solves it. Every effort should be made for Florida to go through in some way.

[madfloridian]

28. My point is that Dean offered for MI and FL to revote. So if they refuse...

they should be to blame. I hope a 50 50 seating of original delegates will at least allow them at the convention. Won't make a difference in count, but will allow attendance.

The DNC has made every effort. Florida just turned it down.

[On the Road]

67. Yes, If Michigan and Florida Refuse,

the existing delegates should not be seated and their potential votes should not count.

I think Clinton looks bad if she supports the seating of delegates from an irregular election. I also think Obama looks bad if he tries to obstruct a solution for those voters to have a legitimate say. If the states refuse, just let things take their course. Dean and the credentials committe can handle it.

[dansolo]

73. What about seating 50% of the delegates?

Give Obama the uncommitted delegates in MI, and reduce the delegations by 50%. That should satisfy both campaigns - Clinton picks up some delegates, but not as many as she is counting on. I don't like just splitting the delegates, and there is no way that the full slate of delegates should be seated.

[calimary]

30. I bet you're correct here - if your state's election (and maybe also Michigan's) were

indeed redone now - or in the very near future - I suspect the results will be different than they were originally. Frankly, I think if California's election were done over, now, Clinton might actually not win, or maybe not win by as large a margin. Momentum in the Obama campaign is a significant thing, and as he piles up the delegates and the popular vote week after week, and starts to take on an air of inevitability, I'd expect to see the re-done Florida numbers reflecting that. Michigan's too. I seriously doubt the results would be identical to what they were originally, back then when it was more of a horse-race, and there were more candidates in the running at that time.

[madfloridian]

39. January 29 seems like a very long time ago.

In spite of the organized propaganda by the Florida party, people are waking up somewhat here. Floridians can be slow to disbelieve the media. I think Nelson's rant against Dean on FTN Sunday angered a lot of people. Nelson looked so superior.

[snappyturtle]

23. First off I don't think the votes should count per the rules. But, how is Obama

better off letting the vote go through? Do you mean that those votes in an election where he wasn't on the ballot should be counted?

[On the Road]

66. Obama Would Probably Lose Some Delegates but Not Lose His Lead

It would be a better position for him to take because it would lend greater credibility to the results, and it would be a principled stand on voter enfranchisement that didn't directly benefit him. It was not the Florida voters who made the decision for the early primary and any attempt to prevent a solution that would result in a fair vote that counts at the convention puts him in a bad light.

There are also political risks going into a convention with some states excluded. Humphrey came close to unseating McGovern in 1972 due to a delegate challenge on a much flimsier basis. Anything can happen on the convention floor.

[oviedodem]

57. It's not all him. Florida dems (mostly Hil supporters) don't want a revote because

they run the risk of the returns being closer than the original. They want to seat the votes as is.

[MaineDem]

7. And look at how important a primary today would be

Florida Democratic Party out-guessed itself.

[madfloridian]

10. Yep. In spite of my anger...I feel a sadness.

This time we could have mattered.

[calimary]

17. Hey, madfloridian, a question. I'm just not quite getting something here.

As a Californian, I share your state's anger that the candidates all tend to look at us as nothing more than a cash machine, while other states came before us and made our decision for us before we ever got a chance to weigh in. A REAL sore point with me as a Californian, and I've been flamed about it here (full disclosure: I happen to think California should go first - since we're the biggest and therefore stand to be most intensely and directly affected, by sheer numbers of the population, by ANYTHING that happens).

That said, here's my confusion:

Rules are rules. I chafe against them as they affect my state, too, but the rules were clear, and clearly stated at the outset, were they not? And didn't Florida party officials decide to call the DNC's bluff and defy the rules anyway?

Am I understanding this correctly (especially as a NON-Floridian who certainly hasn't studied this issue as closely as I have paid attention to others)?

Couldn't Florida have moved its primary up to Super Tuesday as we did out here? Or was that not possible?

PLEASE don't take offense - I'm not trying to criticize. I'm just trying to understand. It just looks really clear to me (again, as an outsider here) - when someone breaks the rules - in this case willfully, that someone then has to accept the consequences. Unless everyone can agree that the rules have to be changed or modified somehow to meet new conditions.

Yes, the ramifications of this wind up being unfair to Florida voters, yet again threatened with having their votes not counted. But shouldn't their beef be with their own party officials who decided to violate the rules in the first place, rather than trying to negotiating another option that might produce at least somewhat more palatable results? It just seems to me that the facts are the facts - they broke the rules. And they have to take their lumps. Otherwise next time around, EVERYBODY will find some reason to break the rules and we'll have total chaos in yet another arena, to pile onto the chaos we have to suffer through, within our own party, already.

Please help me understand this a little better. It seems pretty clear-cut to me, but then again, maybe I don't have all the information here.

[madfloridian]

22. Yes, they could have gone to Super Tuesday. They did not want that.

They wanted to be the week before so they could have the media splash going into Super Tuesday.

In fact Dean and others on the rules committee tried their best to talk them out of moving a week ahead of Super Tuesday, they did not listen.

No one was supposed to go ahead of the February 5 window except IA NH NV and SC.

But Florida moved to January 29, knowing they would be sanctioned. They had been told for months. They got the bloggers here on board, then sent press releases blaming Dean for disenfranchising them, and sent emails to hurt the funding of the DNC.

Here are 3 that will fill you in pretty well. This case shows how very well propaganda works.

From instigator to victim. It was a Dem who introduced the early primary bill in Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1829

How it began last August....how Florida Democrats began their propaganda war
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1819

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in Denver.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1836

[calimary]

27. Thanks! I appreciate this.

Is there an effort within Florida to pin the blame where it should be pinned - as in this Jeremy Ring guy and others like him? Seems to me he's the goat here. 'Cause this effort wound up threatening to make your whole state even more irrelevant than they might have been considered before.

Howard Dean is just standing by the rules, after evidently trying to head off this mess in the first place (I still love my Hollerin' Howard!).

[madfloridian]

29. No, the effort in Florida is just to blame Dean.

The people, many now, know better. Many are disgusted with Nelson and other Dems here. But the media and the Florida progressive bloggers do not reflect that. They just stay out of the fray.

I thought bloggers were supposed to be fighters, not complicit. I have had words with some, but they are still mostly silent officially. I guess it pays to have ins with the state party. :shrug:

[redqueen]

59. "ins with the state party"

That kind of crap is so discouraging.

[Catherina]

43. You have so much integrity. Thanks Madfloridian

Your posts are solid gold

[madfloridian]

45. I appreciate that, but I have posted angry stuff lately.

I did a lot of that yesterday, and I usually try not to.

I did my share of ugly stuff yesterday. I guess we all have those days.

[Catherina]

50. I missed it. This one was for you :)

I posted my share yesterday too in the race threads. Racism makes me see red. We're all human.


This one was for you :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5035391

[madfloridian]

51. I can not believe I missed that. That was great.

Loved it.

[Catherina]

52. It was heartfelt

You've done an amazing job getting the truth out. I admire your courage and dedication.
I wish there were some way to let Howard Dean know how much he and the DNC owe you.

Glad you liked it.

[Inuca]

8. Question

"take their fight to credentials committee" means deciding during the convention or it can be done earlier?

[madfloridian]

9. The new nominee controls the convention after July 1.

So I guess things get confused from here on. I know Dean said he could convene the rules committee, but I think maybe the credentials committee would by July be under the new nominee.

[Inuca]

13. Sorry, I do not understand

In all likelihood, there is NOT going to be a nominee by July (unless of course somebody drops out) + what does it mean that the nominee controls the convention in terms of the FL/MI issue?

[madfloridian]

14. I am not sure when the credentials committee will convene. Ask Maine Dem

They might know. Might not be until the convention.

[MaineDem]

24. I'm checking

I know they meet before the convention but I'm not sure how long before.

I'll see if I can find it.

[madfloridian]

26. Thanks.

:hi:

[MaineDem]

32. Looks like they can convene whenever the Chair calls a meeting

It seems it can be no earlier than 56 days before the convention. Prior to that date, the DNC can resolve disputes. But at the 56th day before the convention, all challenges fall to the Credentials Committee.

The Committee won't be finalized until sometime in June so I assume none of this can happen until after then.

The following is from this document http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/c313170ef991f2ce12_iqm6iyofq.pdf


A. The Credentials Committee shall begin meeting at the call of the Chair in Washington,
D.C., or elsewhere at the call of the Chair, to hear challenges. No later than thirty (30)
days before the first meeting of the Credentials Committee, written notice of the date,
time, place, and the tentative agenda of such meeting shall be sent to all members of the
Credentials Committee. A special or emergency meeting of the Credentials Committee
may be held upon call of the Chair of the Credentials Committee with reasonable notice
to the members.

B. All meetings of the Credentials Committee shall be open to the public; provided that the
Chair of the Committee shall exclude from the specific area where the committee is
conducting its business all persons whose presence in that area is not required for the
proper conduct of the business.

[madfloridian]

34. Thanks. Also I found this at RCP, no dates, just some info VERY interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20080310/cm_rcp/michigan_florida_options_shrin

"Now, based on delegate allocation, it looks almost certain that votes to seat the delegations in their current iterations - both overwhelmingly favoring Hillary Clinton - will not exist. Examining the 186 members of the DNC's Credentials Committee, which would decide any contested delegations, the deck is heavily stacked against both states.

Of the twenty eight members DNC chair Howard Dean appointed, five have already voted to strip the states' delegates. Committee chairs Alexis Herman and Jim Roosevelt, along with members Ralph Dawson, Tina Flournoy and Janice Griffin, all served on the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, which decided the punishments for non-compliant states. The remaining twenty three members will likely follow suit and vote to uphold the rules.

Based on results so far, it appears that Barack Obama's team will control at least 68 seats on the credentials committee, after an estimate that is, if anything, generous to Clinton. Clinton's wins have netted her 55 seats, while states that have yet to hold contests -- Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennyslvania, South Dakota, West Virginia and Puerto Rico - have yet to allocate their combined 22 seats. With Dean's selections voting to uphold the rules and Obama's delegates voting in their candidate's interest, 96 delegates would vote to keep Michigan and Florida out.

While the committee is slated to have 186 members casting 183 votes (delegates from the territories are given a quarter of a vote, though all four voted for Obama, suggesting they will cast their combined one committee vote for him), Florida's and Michigan's combined 14 delegates are still allowed at the convention, but they cannot vote on matters involving their own states. Even assuming Florida votes to seat Michigan's delegates and vice versa, the coalition voting against Clinton's delegations from both states will likely add up to more than half of the remaining 180 votes (with Florida delegates voting) and 178 votes (with Michigan delegates included). Obama can't use that majority to seat a friendlier delegate slate, though, as Clinton would benefit from Dean's contingent, again voting to uphold the rules rather than in her favor, and could block new delegate slates.

In short, the only ways for Florida and Michigan to find their seats on the convention floor would be for the Clinton and Obama camps to reach a deal and together outvote Dean's credentials committee faction; or for the two states to hold some kind of revote, either a primary or a caucus."

Just one analysis, but interesting.

[Inuca]

58. Thanks to both of you for the info n/t

[crispini]

11. As always, rationality and truth!

:kick:

[BeyondGeography]

12. March 11? Let that be a lesson

Florida Dems could have been the center of the world if they had just sat tight.

[book_worm]

15. Florida could have mattered had they held there primary on 3/11

[Jennicut]

16. Utter stupidity all around. Figure it all already Dems!

Florida and Michigan broke the rules but the people in those states should be allowed to vote again, knowing it actually counts this time. Figure out a way to do it and get it done. I have never seen so much handwringing and blame being thrown around. They all need to suck it up and come together on behalf of the Democratic Party.

[madfloridian]

20. I disagree. But I am glad it is Florida Dems turning it down now.

Now let them take some blame for what they did.

Dean has been their scapegoat for this, it is time they get some heat.

[not_too_L8]

21. If it can be done, it should be done. ...n/t

[JackORoses]

18. How do you like how they keep implying that Obama is against a revote?

and that his people are actively working against it.

I smell Clinton shit all over this.

[Vinca]

25. Exactly. The opposite is probably true at this point. Given the recent

race baiting associated with the Clinton campaign, I imagine a revote in Florida would be a good thing for Senator Obama. (Which, of course, is why Hillary wants the vote counted "as is.")

[calimary]

31. Get thee to the Greatest page!

There are lots of good arguments and good background info in here - might be quite helpful and illuminating to everybody.

[Coexist]

33. why are they trying to seat 1/2 the delegates now?

from an email I got today:

Attached in a Word format are two (2) affidavits to be filed with the Democratic National Committee Rules and Bylaws Committee to seat the 211 Florida Delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention.


In order to file an appeal fifteen (15) Democrats have to signed notarized affidavits. If you want to be part of the appeals please sign the attached affidavits.


The first appeal is to seat 23 superdelegates from Florida who “shall” be delegates under the Charter of Democratic Party of the United States.


The second appeal is to seat at least fifty percent (50%) of the remaining delegates though it calls for a 100% seating of the delegation.

[madfloridian]

35. Who is "they"?

Who is doing that? Some are saying that might be the outcome, but I don't think so.

[Coexist]

38. here:

Subject line in the email:

Affadavits for Appeal for Delegates to the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee

and it is to be sent to my "agent" at the DNC in Tallahassee.

check your pm for full text.

[madfloridian]

40. Thanks, will check.

That would still be changing the rules in the middle of the game.

But a 50 50 split of the "as is" delegates would not change the numbers but would get them seated. I think you are talking about actually awarding half instead of sanctioning all. I don't think that would fly.

[Coexist]

41. that is correct - AND they want ALL the supers seated.

[madfloridian]

47. I just posted this about the credentials committee possibilities

It is partly conjecture, but pretty knowledgeable. Interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20080310/cm_rcp/michigan_florida_options_shrin

"Now, based on delegate allocation, it looks almost certain that votes to seat the delegations in their current iterations - both overwhelmingly favoring Hillary Clinton - will not exist. Examining the 186 members of the DNC's Credentials Committee, which would decide any contested delegations, the deck is heavily stacked against both states.

Of the twenty eight members DNC chair Howard Dean appointed, five have already voted to strip the states' delegates. Committee chairs Alexis Herman and Jim Roosevelt, along with members Ralph Dawson, Tina Flournoy and Janice Griffin, all served on the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, which decided the punishments for non-compliant states. The remaining twenty three members will likely follow suit and vote to uphold the rules.

Based on results so far, it appears that Barack Obama's team will control at least 68 seats on the credentials committee, after an estimate that is, if anything, generous to Clinton. Clinton's wins have netted her 55 seats, while states that have yet to hold contests -- Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennyslvania, South Dakota, West Virginia and Puerto Rico - have yet to allocate their combined 22 seats. With Dean's selections voting to uphold the rules and Obama's delegates voting in their candidate's interest, 96 delegates would vote to keep Michigan and Florida out.

While the committee is slated to have 186 members casting 183 votes (delegates from the territories are given a quarter of a vote, though all four voted for Obama, suggesting they will cast their combined one committee vote for him), Florida's and Michigan's combined 14 delegates are still allowed at the convention, but they cannot vote on matters involving their own states. Even assuming Florida votes to seat Michigan's delegates and vice versa, the coalition voting against Clinton's delegations from both states will likely add up to more than half of the remaining 180 votes (with Florida delegates voting) and 178 votes (with Michigan delegates included). Obama can't use that majority to seat a friendlier delegate slate, though, as Clinton would benefit from Dean's contingent, again voting to uphold the rules rather than in her favor, and could block new delegate slates.

In short, the only ways for Florida and Michigan to find their seats on the convention floor would be for the Clinton and Obama camps to reach a deal and together outvote Dean's credentials committee faction; or for the two states to hold some kind of revote, either a primary or a caucus."

[Coexist]

63. I left the county party - it was not a great place to be.

I don't know why I am still on their distribution list.

[madfloridian]

64. We are not active in the county right now. It is sad

But when they sent the emails asking that donations be stopped, it was just too much. Kind of sad.

[madfloridian]

49. Just read it all. Ausman sounds in denial it was Florida's fault...he knows better.

He is the one who sued the state of Florida about the primary, I believe. Need to look it up, don't have it handy.

[1776Forever]

36. I live in Florida - I say split it 50/50. Let the delegates by seated - Enough!

I was very involved in the pre-planning of this Primary in my county and say enough is enough. I blame both Parties here in Florida, but put the primary blame on the Republican's. Yes, there was a home tax question on the ballot, but what about all those who do not own a home? We were told that the vote would not count. I did vote though thinking it at least would be reported in the media and so did my husband. There was only a cable driven Obama ad I saw twice in a month and a visit by Hillary on Primary Day. Most people didn't even know that much about Obama at that time and Edwards and others were still in the race. To be fair about it all I think the vote should be split between Obama and Clinton and let the delegates be seated. Period!

[struggle4progress]

37. Rightwingers bought The Atlantic several years ago -- so I'm not interested inn their spin on Dean

[madfloridian]

44. What part is spin?

Marc Ambinder...what did he say that was not true?

[struggle4progress]

69. It's a bullshit attack on Dean. But you knew that

[madfloridian]

71. I did not take it that way.

[struggle4progress]

74. Anyone who hopes Dean will "allow compromise" doesn't know Dean? Gimme a break

[eallen]

46. Dean is doing exactly what he ought: adhering to the rules.

Whatever the political implications now, this consequence was foretold to the Florida legislature then. And precisely because of the political implications now, the only stance Dean can take without putting himself in the fire is to adhere to the rules.

:hippie:

[AtomicKitten]

48. Dean has already resolved it by putting in place, getting everyone to agree to it, and enforcing

the rules. This do-over crap is being gratuitously milked by ClintonCo who know they have already lost and are looking for an angle, any angle, to stay in. This has been subverted beyond anything in the ballpark of concern for seating delegates. It is beyond ironic that the Clintons are looking to the epicenter of fraud - Florida circa 2000 - for their salvation, and that really resonates among Democrats although does seem to fit quite nicely their general theme of by any means necessary.

Great work, mf, following this circus. Cheers.

K&R

[madfloridian]

53. More on the FL House Dems refusal to have a do-over...

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/house_dems_in_florida_no_redo.php

"Moments ago, Democrats representing Florida in Congress released this joint statement, effectively putting the kibosh on a mail-in re-do primary:

"We are committed to working with the DNC, the Florida State Democratic party, our Democratic leaders in Florida, and our two candidates to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated. Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.”

Even if the candidates agree, there will be no expedited solution unless the courts somehow intervene, which, given a series of federal court rulings last year, is unlikely.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Revote_picture_clouds.html

"For a moment, it looked like party leaders were marching toward a Florida revote. But Obama's campaign signaled today that the mechanics would be an obstacle, and Florida's congressional delegation just took a hard line against a re-vote in a joint statement:

Washington, DC – The Members of Florida’s Democratic Delegation in the U.S. House of Representatives issued the following statement regarding the seating of Florida’s delegates at the DNC National Convention this August.

“We are committed to working with the DNC, the Florida State Democratic party, our Democratic leaders in Florida, and our two candidates to reach an expedited solution that ensures our 210 delegates are seated.

“Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any redo of any kind.”

[mod mom]

54. Thanks Madfloridian for your efforts.

[Vinca]

55. I am completely and utterly confused. Have I got this right?

The DNC made a ruling re primary dates and Florida and Michigan essentially said "go to hell" and held their primaries when they wanted despite knowing their delegates wouldn't count. Everything is hunky dory until it becomes apparent the votes of Michigan and Florida would have had a major impact on the nominating process. Michigan and Florida then demand to have the results of elections held in violation of DNC rules count. The DNC, rightly, tells them to "go to hell," it would be unfair to the candidates. So an agreement is apparently reached so the state can vote again in an election that will count and will have a major impact on the election. AND THE DEMS IN THE STATE TURN IT DOWN? WTF? Has it come to "give it to Hillary or we won't play?" Please tell me I'm interpreting this incorrectly.

[madfloridian]

56. Yep, you got it. Dean offered it...they turned it down.

[redqueen]

60. Thanks so much for all your work on this issue...

*sigh*

What a sad, ugly, and unnecessary situation.

[madfloridian]

62. More picking up on this....from TampaBay 10 News

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/election/article.aspx?storyid=75970

"TALLAHASSEE, Florida -- Florida's congressional Democrats may be split between Sens. Hillary Cinton and Barack Obama, but they agree on one thing -- they don't want a "do-over" of the Jan. 29 presidential primary."

..." After a meeting in Washington with Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., and the state's congressional Democrats, the Floridians issued a unanimous statement that said:

"Our House delegation is opposed to a mail-in campaign or any re-do of any kind."

[madfloridian]

65. Bill Nelson will fight.. No matter who disagrees. Delegates or death.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/12/759733.aspx

"Despite not having the support of the state's House Democrats, Bill Nelson and the Florida Democratic Party apparently are close to submitting a new mail-in primary plan to the DNC, the New York Times writes. "The state party would most likely submit the proposal to Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, by week’s end, said the spokesman, Dan McLaughlin. Mr. Nelson is a supporter of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.”

Bill and Hillary...fighting together.

[madfloridian]

68. Dean in South Florida. Begala helped change Hillary's mind about revote.

If the House delegation says flat out no...how will Nelson get enough people on board?

http://www.latestpolitics.com/blog/2008/03/amid-re-vote-stir-dr-dean-goes-to.html

"With high-stakes discussions ongoing about a possible make-up Democratic primary in Florida, the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean, is on the ground in the Sunshine State.

Dr. Dean arrived in Fort Lauderdale this afternoon, coming from Alabama, according to a well-placed source.

A spokeswoman for the DNC, Stacie Paxton, confirmed the trip and said it was to attend a scheduled fund-raiser. However, Dr. Dean has been talking by phone to members of Florida's congressional delegation today about the standoff over the primary, the spokeswoman said."

Interesting:

"Until yesterday, Senator Clinton's campaign had insisted that the party recognize the results of the January 29 vote, which Mrs. Clinton won handily albeit with no campaigning in the state. Today, the former first lady and her aides indicated they would also accept a re-vote. The easing of Mrs. Clinton's position came after a prominent surrogate for the New York senator, Paul Begala, said on CNN last night that recognizing the Florida and Michigan votes as is was "untenable."

[UALRBSofL]

72. The house delegates didn't say flat out no

They were already for a mail-in revote. Obama Attorneys stepped in and said he didn't agree with this because the mail-ins could not be validated or that it couldn't be determined if there could be voter fraud leaving it up to the state. So, the state pursued a private firm to handle the mailers, but, Obama's attorneys made the argument voter names could not be sold to a private firm. Basically, this decision from the Obama camp stops Florida from having a revote as per Dean's Laws and directives and Bylaws. So, this leads me to believe Dean is biased and is helping Obama in every turn. What I'm posting is already being run on national and local stations. So, In my opinion, this will disenfranchise many voters and especially the Clinton supporters since it seems Obama's camp seems to be directing the voter redo.

[madfloridian]

75. First they want the revote....then they are not sure.

The only sure thing is that it is never Florida's fault.