You people really scare me (and many others)

[Ava]

When I decided that I was a Democrat it was because I have compassion, consideration, and an urge to do what I can to help out those in need. The Democratic party seemed to fit that and after reading about FDR and the New Deal I decided that the Democratic party was the party for me. Now I'm able to vote in my first election and there are two outstanding nominees still standing in the race and still very close in the delegate count. I am extremely excited to be able to vote in such a historic election and one that I and so many people are passionate about.

However, there is a difference between passion and what I have seen exhibited on this section of the forum. People are willing to throw not only Democratic candidates under the bus and absolutely trash them, but even worse is that too many posters are willing to do the same to fellow posters here and supporters of the nominees. Is that Democratic?

I have heard people say too much on this forum that "Clinton is hurting the party" or "Obama is hurting the party" and then call for a candidate to get out of the race. All I have to say is that the candidates aren't the ones hurting the party, but the people that i described above are. First time voters like me who have considered themselves Democrats and supporters of one particular candidate of the party(or still unsure) are turning away from the party because of the hostility that is going on inside from the members, not the nominees.

So, while I still will vote for a Democratic nominee in the general election, you should be warned that a lot of young people like myself have either decided to vote third party or even worse not vote at all.

Just a rambling and hopefully a bit of a warning from a member of the country's youth.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

1. Yeah great post Hitler.

:evilgrin: Just kidding, you're right.

[theHandpuppet]

3. You are WAY outta line

That was nowhere near the vicinity of funny, pal.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. I'm sure Ava read past the subject to see his agreement.

Funny? It's subjective. But it is objectively apparent that we all need thicker skins.

[JoFerret]

95. While sensitivity is to be sought

Thicker skins are required for understanding the clumsiness of others when they tread on our precious sensibilities. That said - coded insults are pretty foul - although par for the political course. Both camps have dipped deeply into that cess pool.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

12. Tell you what, PAL. If the poster I was replying to has a problem with

what I wrote. I will gladly delete it or apologize. If she doesn't then I'd ask you to lighten the fuck up. This same joke has been used here time and time again by many posters and it is just that a joke.

[Ava]

20. don't worry

it's a joke.. people in the lounge post it a lot especially :hi:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. Hey, I never claimed to be original. n/t

[CreekDog]

59. Ohhh, so he plagiarized it huh?

:evilgrin:

[Ava]

60. yup

:P

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

74. Absolutely not!

A friend in the lounge who is my campaign co-chair said I could use it.

;)

[CreekDog]

79. doesn't matter, those are just words

you can xerox.

:rofl:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

81. For the record I copied and pasted. Xerox is sooooo 20th century. n/t

[skater314159]

34. You are WAY in need of a sense of humour. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

2. Exactly.

To make matters worse, there is a large core of each candidates supporters who are quite confident that anyone who doesn't agree must be doing so either on the basis of racism or sexism. Therefore, if their candidate doesn't win, it is a matter of principle to oppose those sexists in the Obama camp or those racists in the Hillary camp.

Stupid, myopic and narcissistic as this primary campaign is, it will pass.

[jojo54]

4. Ava, you are wise for your age.

Personally, I stay out of GD:P for just that reason. I can't stand all the in-party fighting and it wouldn't surprise me if some freepers got all this crap started. I've even seen some posters say that they will vote for McCain if their candidate isn't the nominee in the GE. Now THAT'S scary.

A lesson in life that I've learned is go with your gut feeling, not your heart.

[kid a]

5. thanks ava - my advice...REALLY mix up your blogosphere!!

Spend time reading print, books & biographies, watching BBC, Canadian Press, Kos, Huffington, TPM, Vanity Fair, The Economist, ETC. TONS of other viewpoints out there. If DU gets you down, go away for a while. In three months it will beless acerbic.

But most of all, don't let DU be your reason for sitting at home.

[Ava]

DU could never keep me from voting

no one could.. i'm that passionate about it, however i know young people that are turned off from the in-party bickering not only here on DU, but elsewhere(and in the non-cyber world, lol) as well.

[formernaderite]

19. well some of my kids are "young" people

in college...and they're enjoying t he fight. THEY feel like this is the first time, they have something to fight for...however, they don't spend much time on internet chat boards.

[Ava]

23. i didn't say all young people

and i didn't say that i don't feel like "fighting to fight".. as a matter of fact as said the opposite about myself. what i did say is that many of the first time voters that i know(note... i know them OUTSIDE of the internet) are discouraged by this type of behavior. it isn't just going on in internet chat boards either.

[crim son]

7. Some call it passion.

I call it absence of thought. Many of us are idealists but relatively few seem to understand that hoping to achieve the ideal in the future, one must accept compromise today.

[druidity33]

90. if you truly believe that

then i'm really sorry. I would however, suggest a book that may inspire you called Cradle to Cradle. Authored by William McDonough and Michael Braungardt(?). A good library search oughta do it.

There is compromise... and then there is the third way, and the fourth way, and the fifth way, and so on.

:shrug:

[crim son]

94. Thank you for the book recommendation.

If the parties in question agree on the fourth way, is this not a compromise? Maybe not, but that's how I meant it.

[druidity33]

96. yes and no

the book elaborates better than i can. Their perspective is that of rethinking Manufacturing and Product. (From an Architects and Chemical Engineer's viewpoint)

They coined the terms "eco-efficient" and "upcycle". Basically they're advanced creative problem solvers. Certainly the subsequent "ways" would contain parts of both of the original opposing viewpoints, otherwise how could you get the parties to agree? In that sense, if you want to label it compromise, feel free. But in my view, words bear burdens and often elicit connotations. People loathe compromise. But what do they do if you tell them you've reached an accord?

The trick is to rethink every problem from the bottom up. It's a hard thing to get people to rethink their most basic assumptions... especially about Science. Involving PEOPLE is also important. Experts often miss the simplest things.

Anyway, it's a good book and printed on paper that's not "paper"!

Other good books:

No More Throw-Away People... Edgar Cahn
Omnivore's Dilemma... Michael Pollan
Dwellers in the Land... Kirkpatrick Sale
The Unsettling of America... Wendell Berry
Mortgage Free... Rob Roy
Going Local... Michael Schuman
In the Absence of the Sacred... Jerry Mander
Gaviotas... Alan Weisman


Cheers!

[Johnny__Motown]

8. I don't belong to any organized political party, I am a Democrat.

as true now as ever.

welcome to the party

[LSK]

9. Ava, may I point out a contradiction in your logic?

You say that the candidates are not the ones hurting the party. You say it is the posters. That may be true or may not be.

However a key distinction is that you are not voting for the posters on DU. You are voting for the candidates who you say are not hurting the party.

So it is illogical that you would vote third party.

Having said that, I can see you point of view and would advise not look at this forum and try to walk away from the election. Pay attention to Senate and Congressional races which are just as important. Did you know Dennis Hastert's seat was taken by a Dem last Saturday? There are other things going on.

[Ava]

25. i never said i would vote third party

perhaps you should re-read my post

"So, while I still will vote for a Democratic nominee in the general election, you should be warned that a lot of young people like myself have either decided to vote third party or even worse not vote at all."

[CreekDog]

61. am i expected to read everything *carefully*?

oops, I guess so. sorry! :yoiks:

[Ava]

63. who let you out of your cage in the lounge?

:P

[CreekDog]

64. I like to come to GDP to look at the pictures

:shrug:

[Ava]

67. yeah, but who let you out

the gate keeper was supposed to keep you in :rofl:

[CreekDog]

69. apparently she walked away from her post to GDP

:spank:

[Ava]

70. dammit.. lazy lounge lizzards

can't be trusted to do a simple thing :rofl: ;)

[Booster]

10. I'm 65 years old and certainly not a first time voter. I feel as you

do. I think it's time for a viable (not Ralph Nader) third party candidate. If the right one comes along, I will vote third party.

[Ava]

27. i won't vote third party (in my OP i said i would vote for the Dem nominee)

mostly because at this point our elections do not have third party candidates with a chance

[Booster]

52. Yes, I understood that and I wasn't talking about this election as

it's way too late for a viable third party candidate. I will vote Dem in this election also, but am open to a third party in later elections, even local ones.

[islandmkl]

11. for a little relevancy...

national polling does not reflect near the attitudes we all, well a lot of us anyway, exhibit here at DU...

we like to think we are the 'normal' ones; but, truth be told, if we were 'normal' we wouldn't be ranting and raving on DU...

we are, for lack of a better term, and i don't need to be flamed for saying this, the shock troops of the Democratic Party...

we have a lot of passion, a lot of emotions, and we all REALLY want the same thing...

not Hillary or Barack necessarily....

WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK!

[Jersey Devil]

13. Just remember the words of Will Rogers

"I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

I noticed you used the word "bickering" and that bothers me because to me "bickering" implies that what people are arguing over are inconsequential matters that have no real relevance to the issues that have to be decided. I believe that this year the differences between Obama and Clinton are serious matters for discussion and cannot be dismissed as mere "bickering." Certainly it would be nice if we all could get along without all the fighting, some of which I agree is over the top, but I am hopeful that when it is all over we can find some common ground and move forward together.

And, by the way, keep up the terrific work. I absolutely love your videos.

[The Doctor.]

14. Oh Grow Up!

Adults are mean-spirited ogres... JOIN US!!!


JK Love, stay beautiful! :hug:

[mudesi]

15. You're not a Democrat, you're a LIBERAL

What needs to happen is liberals need to take over the Democratic party.

[IndianaJones]

16. then throw out that large African American voting block. nt.

[Melinda]

44. Spot on!!!!

:loveya: post!! :hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Getting into politics is like stepping into dogshit.

Despite all the sound and fury this campaign isn't much different than any other...just longer and a lot more boring.

[madinmaryland]

18. K&R!!

:kick:

[susankh4]

21. Excellent post! K&R!!

You are onto something.

and, so is Ralph Nader. In fact, his choice of VP candidate shows that he is expecting folks just like you to defect to him in November. By then, we'll all be so sick of the way Dems are treating one another... who could blame them?

Hang in there, Ava. It will get better. (I hope.)

[olkaz]

24. You have no clue what you're talking about.

And your sample size is too small to be representative of the population mean.

I think I'll go with the rampant evidence that young people are excited for Obama and are more involved in politics than ever before.

But thanks for the note.

[Ava]

28. ok, ignore the youth but try to claim that you know what the youth are thinking

that's fine with me if that is what you want to do :hi:

[olkaz]

31. "try to claim that you know what the youth are thinking"

I am a member of Generation Y, if that helps legitimize my position.

The fact is that DU is it's own little universe, and situations get escalated and argued past their equivalent in the real world.

My take on your posting was that you're basing your idea on the silliness that goes on here. In the real world, I have seen no first-hand evidence of the extreme fatigue you're describing. When you extrapolate your view from DU, you are going to come up with faulty conclusion, period.

I have yet to see one example in the real world (or even online) of a young Democrat sick of the process and willing to jump to Nader. Maybe you can post some links.

[Ava]

35. i've seent he same thing spread over into other places on the internet and in the non-internet world

i'm talking about not only the conversations i've witness here on DU, but also the conversations i've witnessed in "the real world."

i know less people that are fed up enough to got to Nader(btw, he's not the only third party candidate) and more that are fed up enough that they've said that they don't even want to vote anymore.

personally i'm an obama supporter, have been supporting him and donated to his campaign. i'll vote for whoever the democratic nominee is and i'll be excited and happy to vote. although it is annoying and discouraging to hear and see the types of conversations i posted about, they don't effect me enough to make me not want to vote.. i'm too passionate about politics. however, many many many young people are not and are new to politics. i've been political since i was 9/10 during gore's campaign, and i was a supporter of edwards(then kerry) in 2004.

[olkaz]

38. Then here is the answer!

Have you thoroughly reviewed both nominees positions on all the issues most important to you? Do you feel that you've made the correct decision, with all that taken into account? Feel good about your decision? Great!

Now stop reading. Stop listening. Let the primary run its course. Nothing that could happen could influence you in a positive way, since you're obviously more disillusioned the more you take in.

Close the web page, shut off the news channel, and do whatever it is you do.

[susankh4]

40. Oh really?

"I have seen no first-hand evidence of the extreme fatigue you're describing."

I have. But... not nearly as much as we'll see by November. We have a long way to go, during which time the attacks will get more and more viscious. By the time we go to the polls we'll know all kinds of ugly things about Mr. Obama. Mr. McCain's camp will see to it.

And then Mr. Gonzalez will wisk in with some really tasty kool-aid. He's at least as charismatic as Mr. Obama. And truly well informed on issues that matter to most younger voters ..... He'll be able to thank Barack for getting everyone registered to vote for him.

[olkaz]

47. Yeah, really.

"I have."

Seriously? Please explain in detail. If it happened first-hand, like you said, I'd like to know exactly how, where, and since when it's been happening. This is news to me, and I need to understand.

"But... not nearly as much as we'll see by November."

Okay, now you're speculating.

"We have a long way to go, during which time the attacks will get more and more viscious. By the time we go to the polls we'll know all kinds of ugly things about Mr. Obama. Mr. McCain's camp will see to it."

This is how primaries work. This is not new or unique. I cannot stress that enough.

"And then Mr. Gonzalez will wisk in with some really tasty kool-aid. He's at least as charismatic as Mr. Obama. And truly well informed on issues that matter to most younger voters ..... He'll be able to thank Barack for getting everyone registered to vote for him."

You lost me.

[susankh4]

50. Some of my son's friends are starting to say...

Yada, yada, yada...."politics as usual." And I think we may be seeing that in the lower turnout at MS polls. I don't know for sure. But it's a fairly good guess. We'll have to wait and see.... what happens in PA, KY, WVa.....

It is a fact that Obama is relying on a newer votership to push him to success. The Dem base is not necessarily on board with his message. Clinton actually does better in polls that are limited to Dems only. Part of the constituancy that Mr. Obama is relying on is just the group being addressed here... the youth vote.

Mr. Gonzalez is Mr. Nader's VP choice. A fairly high profile member of the Green Party, Matt Gonzalez is young and charismatic and quite well versed on energy policy. He'll be quite happy to draw the disillusioned young Obamaphiles to his ticket. In fact, he's already at it. See:

http://www.beyondchron.org/articles/The_Obama_Craze_Count_Me_Out_5413.html

[olkaz]

54. thanks for the info

"Yada, yada, yada...."politics as usual."

Some of your son's friends? Have they ever shown an interest in politics before? Have they voted? College educated? Blue collar? We're talking about Generation Y, right? Just curious. I have no reason to not believe you. It's just not enough information to derive anything meaningful from.

"We'll have to wait and see.... what happens in PA, KY, WVa....."

Indeed we will. I think younger voters will continue the trend. It is the safer bet, I think.

"Mr. Gonzalez is Mr. Nader's VP choice. A fairly high profile member of the Green Party, Matt Gonzalez is young and charismatic and quite well versed on energy policy. He'll be quite happy to draw the disillusioned young Obamaphiles to his ticket. In fact, he's already at it."

I could not be less intimidated by this prospect. Everybody learned their lesson from self-righteous Ralph in 2000, and it was proven true in 2004. Mr. Gonzalez could be flippin' electricity personified, and if he's stuck to Ralph, it means nothing.

"disillusioned young Obamaphiles"

Were your son's friends at one point "Obamaphiles" (I prefer Obama supporters)? They'd have to be to make this observation valid.

[susankh4]

77. Early 20s.

Some working. Some in college.

Initially very excited about Obama. Now... not so much.

No, they did not "learn their lesson" about voting third party. They were not voting the year Al Gore lost. It is not even on their radar...

My son, himself, was a Nader voter in 2000. That was his first year voting for Prez. So, yes, third party is a very real option for him.

[Frances]

30. Olkaz

why are you so mean spirited?

I think it's your attitude that turns people off to Obama, who is basically a good guy who would make a good President.

[olkaz]

37. Mean-Spirited is not representative

Frustrated is the word.

And what I'm frustrated with is the "sky is falling" mentality that folks cling to here at DU. Since DU is it's own little universe, it's easy to think everything has gone crazy. It hasn't. Not in the real world. Everything is fine, and the process is taking its course.

I'm frustrated with long, dramatic, emotional posts that indicate more of a unhealthy involvement than anything. "Won't somebody think of the children?"

And I only mentioned Obama because his campaign is clear evidence that the OP is misguided. More young people are involved, not less, and I have seen no evidence (outside of this den of lunacy) that would support the opposite.

My post was not meant to promote Obama, or push any agenda at all. I used it as an example to prove a point.

So why would you say this?

"I think it's your attitude that turns people off to Obama, who is basically a good guy who would make a good President. "

What I said had nothing to do with Obama. It was a reference.

Quit projecting.

[spoony]

66. Being excited for Obama and being put off by nutters online

are not mutually exclusive things.

[LiveLiberally]

26. I appreciate your post...

and I don't think your sentiments are shared only by the youth. This election is drawing to the democratic party people who haven't been mobilized politically for years -- if ever. This is a unique opportunity to create a new progressive majority and the intra-party bickering is squandering it. As long as it was limited to activist parlors (such as DU), I wasn't too concerned but we are beginning to see the effects now in the general electorate. The backbiting is hurting both candidates and only helping McCain.

Ok, if that's the reality, what's the solution? Here's the tragic part -- there isn't one, at least at this point in the primary process. Free speech is the bedrock of democracy, and it isn't always pretty and it is almost never non-contentious. No matter what the issue (abortion, war in Iraq, climate change, welfare you name it....) there will always be zealots on both sides who seek to drown out ANY efforts to build concensus and sustain rational discussion. Right now, the ISSUE OF THE HOUR is Obama v. Clinton and when you throw race and gender into the fray, the mixture is bound to be toxic.

Which makes posts like yours all the more necessary....many thanks.

[JVS]

29. If forced to choose between democratic ideals and figures of the democratic party, I choose ideals

Without the ideals, the party and its politicians are absolutely worthless to me. So if Ferraro or any one wants to spout of heinous bigotries, they deserve very much to be "thrown under the bus" (to use your phrase)

[Unsane]

32. Sen. Gravel, is that you?

[Swamp Rat]

33. Ava!

:hug:

:kick:

[redqueen]

36. Brilliant, as usual!

:yourock:

People's emotions sometimes get the better of them when discussing things they're passionate about, and they end up saying unfortunate things. I think most DUers that engage in it are just having a rough day, are stressed out, etc. That said, there are some that seem to think it's A-ok and that's just sad.

Thanks for trying to increase awareness of how damaging that can be. :thumbsup:

[Debi]

39. Why aren't you at school?

:hi:

This isn't the first time that bad behavior of our candidates supporters has caused strife and it will not be the last.

Wounds heal and people continue to be part of the process.

[Redbear]

41. Right on, Ava!

Testify.

[npincus]

42. Hi, Ava.

Don't let a small group of over-the-top posters on a message board chase you out of the party. The vast majority of Dems out there are far more moderate in their willingness to compormise on their dream candidate and support whomever gets the nomination. Think of this forum as a big padded cell for some to work out their frustrations, scream profanities at each other and punch the walls a bit. Therapy for political junkies, if you will. It's been a rough 8 years for us. Believe me, the vast majority of US will settle down and moderate our views once the process ended. In other words, we will come home again because the spector of a President McCain and his 100-year war in Iraq is so horrifying.

BTW, very happy with your success. I hope my Ava (5 years) can carry on the proud Ava tradition of compassion and activism. My Ava:

[October]

43. Take heart

There are many long-time DUers who feel as you do. Many of us are watching in horror at this in-fighting among Dems.

It's terribly disappointing. I'm appalled -- especially when you consider that the candidates' voting records are so similar. A lot of these mean-spirited threads have more to do with gender, race, and personality issues. It's easy to find flaws with both candidates without each "side" denigrating the other so gleefully.

<sigh>

This will be my daughter's first vote -- and an historic one at that. She's informed and will vote accordingly. It is also the first time that the PA Primary vote may count for something. LOL!

I keep hoping DU will return to normalcy. We'll see. The party is quite split at this point. Ugly posts and hatred abound! I barely recognize the place.

Perhaps after the Convention we will unite against the GOP.

[bigtree]

45. I haven't seen the same vulgar displays that occur here on the net, elsewhere.

And, the public stuff has been, mostly, tame. I worry though, that the worst is yet to come as republicans realize their time is soon up.

[DeepModem Mom]

46. K&R!

[merh]

48. Oh bullshit

anyone that makes the bickering of a few folks on a message board the basis for why they won't vote for a candidate is just a fool and a lazy, weak minded one at that.

This is just a big chalk board, folks can claim to be a part of the party or a supporter of the candidate can come here and post all sorts of nonsense. Those same folks may be for the other team and are just here doing exactly what you empower them to do.

Make up you mind on the candidates on their records not on the silliness of the supporters. Be a grown up, think for yourself and don't expect us to think for you or make up your mind for you, and yes, I would post that to a senior citizen if they posted such a silly rambling.

Christ on a crutch, this is just a place for folks to come and vent and ramble and argue, it isn't the place where decisions are made by those that matter in the decision making process, not party wise or national interest wise.

And don't you dare go to the convention, you won't like the bickering and the carrying on.

[windoe]

49. In this two-party system, there are Republicans

-and everyone else bagged in the other party. Democrats are just non-Republicans, and Democrats' diversity and liberal nature makes it much harder for us to speak with one voice. Not impossible, but much harder than the good ol boy party. This is what I see as our biggest challenge--unification.

[cali]

51. What nonsense

You should learn that YOU don't speak for all young people. My 21 year old so and his friends are very enthusiastic. You clearly don't speak for these bright, educated young people, do you? Much better and far more honest to restrict yourself to speaking for yourself alone, and then adding something like "I don't think I'm the only one". Your OP is simply a threat. I don't like threats.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

53. Have to agree with you this time.

The do what we say or we will take our toys somewhere else theme is not constructive, and the insinuation that 'she only' has the pulse of younger voters is presumptuous.

[Ava]

57. as i said, if you thought that was what i was saying then you are way off base

oh well :shrug:

have a nice day :hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

75. Please enlighten me.

I managed to read and comprehend your OP's sentences and structure... working my way from introduction to body to conclusion. I heard what you were saying. I would appreciate if you could summarize the theme for me as I am so off base. Thanks in advance.

[Ava]

56. glad to hear your son and his friends are excited about voting

i am too.. and i have a candidate i support and am very involved in the political process. i don't let the nonsense between the two candidates' supporters discourage me, however i also realize that most young people aren't like me. most young people vote, but aren't as actively involved in politics as i am and most of the young people that i know are fed up with the petty insults being thrown at supporters of each candidate.. not just online but also out in "the real world."

my OP wasn't a threat either. if you thought it was a threat then you must have either a: not read my post or b: not understood my post.

don't worry, after the behavior i've seen exhibited on this section of this forum i didn't expect a majority of people posting here to agree with me. i was just trying to express a view that i have and all the youth that are voting that i know personally have.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. Ava is one of the brightest and most articulate young people I have ever met

I consider it an honor to have actually met her and I saw in person what a truly remarkable young woman she is.

Ava has a great future. Speaking on behalf of her peers, as leaders do, is one of many great things she will do.

[Blue_In_AK]

55. Ava, before you and your friends decide not to vote...

let me tell you a little story. The first year that I was old enough to vote was 1968. Like you, I became disgusted by the process. If you think things are bad now, you haven't seen anything like the Chicago Democratic convention of 1968. I watched in horror as kids my age were bludgeoned by the police, as things devolved into real chaos. I was so turned off, I didn't vote that year in "protest."

What happened? An honorable man, Hubert Humphrey, who probably would have been a very good president, was defeated, and we were "blessed" with six years of Richard Nixon, Watergate and then Jerry Ford, whose administration gave Rumsfeld and Cheney their start.

Please, please, please, whatever you do, vote for the Democrat this November. There is much too much at stake. I've seen this movie before.

[Ava]

58. i'm voting

i'm already registered and as i said in the OP i will vote for the democratic nominee because i like both clinton and obama(though i lean towards obama). :hi:

[Laelth]

65. I was shocked the first time I became involved in Party politics.

The Democratic Party has always been rough. It's a big tent, and we scrap amongst ourselves a lot. It can be unnerving, to say the least.

I understand your concerns, and I hope you do not become desensitized to the verbal violence of intra-party politics the way I have. Remember, though, that we are passionate because we care, deeply, about our Party and our Country. Hope that helps.

:patriot:

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--grammar.

[Robeson]

71. Yeah, well, that sounds like something YOU would say....

...just kidding Ava...;-)

I was just getting into my "GD P method acting" mode... :hi:

[Judge_Mental]

72. Didn't I read this morning where you called someone an idiot ?

In a defense of Hillary?

[Ava]

83. me? don't think so

:shrug:

[nxylas]

98. That doesn't sound like Ava

The only time I've seen her insult people is in fun, with folks she knows well.

[marions ghost]

73. what you are witnessing is desperation

--desperation to get the hijackers out of Washington.

Nothing in the political arena is happening like it ought to and hasn't for quite awhile. Elections in America don't even work as they are supposed to in a Democracy. However the extreme weakness of the Republicans & the Neocons --through the spectacular failure of their policies-- now offers a glimmer of hope. Most Americans had no idea how bad things were becoming, but they're getting an inkling now. So understand that a lot of where the negativity here is coming from is a place of deep fear and concern as has really never existed before, in my opinion. We have had struggles in history of course, but never before have our basic rights and freedoms been so threatened by forces within our own government. We cannot afford even another 4 years of "status quo." We cannot afford a continuation of warfare as our primary focus and purpose as a nation. We cannot afford social and economic and environmental policies like the ones pushed by the Right. There is so much at stake in these elections.

Hang in Ava. You and your generation are the hope for a better future. Try not to be disillusioned, & understand that what you are seeing here is just a pale reflection of a very intense power struggle behind the scenes. You and those in your age group need every bit of your rights and freedoms you can hang onto. So work for a Dem and vote. It's not possible NOT to be affected by what happens politically. I know, I tried to hide from it once. It didn't work. What happens in this election WILL affect your life in ways you can't even imagine. It's way too early to quit.

[leveymg]

76. Dear Ava, I doubt you'll find GOP politics to be any less heated and caustic from the inside.

But, if you insist, you're welcome to explore the Belly of the Beast. I'm sure you'll have some good stories to tell us about what it's like in there when you decide to come back.

That probably won't take too long.

A cold drink will be waiting for you. On us.

Your DU friends. :toast: :kick:

[Ava]

82. again, read all of my OP

i didn't say i wasn't voting for a democrat.. in fact i said the opposite ;) :hi:

[Myrina]

78. Let me apologize for the asswads responding to you here ...

... your post is prescient and we would all be really freaking stupid not to pay attention to you and so many others who feel the same way.


:hug:

[RestoreGore]

80. I understand where you are coming from

I'm actually considering becoming an Independent after this one. I can't stand the BS from either side anymore. I hope the Democratic party leaders are happy with themselves that they have all caused such division and guilt in this election.

[izzybeans]

84. Hey don't give up

Your post partially inspired me to write this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5043967&mesg_id=5043967

...despite my tendency to make snarky comments.

[mdmc]

85. Nader!

He is the man!

[Ava]

86. not a nader fan here

i have friends who like him and mckinney though. personally i'm leaning towards obama right now though i'd be happy with clinton as well.

[hulka38]

87. Hillary completely sucks and the people who don't see it scare me.

[GeorgeGist]

88. Don't let the boogeyman get you to believe ...

that America's duopolistic political system actually works.

[ClayZ]

89. Hi Ava! Thanks for speaking up.

Your videos and your vision have been an inspiration to me.

I support Obama.

People obviously choose their candidate by what attributes they believe will be best for our country.

Some just can't help being passionately pro and or against one or the other.

Just as I can't understand why Hillary supporters can't see what I do in Obama, visa versa is also true.

Hopefully the numbers will tell soon.

It is like a huge brawling caucus here that never ends.

Did you get to go to a caucus or primary?

K and R

[cooolandrew]

91. One candidate is talking of unity one of division which meets your ideals..

We on the forums don't count basing votes on a forum is the worst way to decide follow the candidates not us... That is a bizarre way to elect. You have free option to zone us out just follow the candidates via their sites. It's their message not ours.

If anyoneyou know is basing their vote this way discourage them and tell them to put their focus on candidate what ehyare saying is their vision positive or

[rodeodance]

97. The BO campaign has been engaged in divisive politics-dirty politics at least for NH

[Midlodemocrat]

92. DU is not representative of the whole world. In fact, I'd say that most young people

have never even heard of DU. They'll vote and most of them will vote Democratic. Nothing that goes on in these forums will change that.