DKos: The GOP is now gaming our primary for Clinton. It's time to end it.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/12/81339/4516/40/474909

Now that John McCain has won the GOP nomination, Republicans are voting in the Democratic primary in increasing numbers, hoping to pick their opponent for the November election, or at least cause more turmoil in our already divisive nomination battle.

Their choice? Hillary Clinton.

Yesterday, in the Mississippi primary, 24% of Hillary Clinton's support came from Republicans. Unlike the Republican support generated by Barack Obama, according to exit polling data, Clinton's Republican support appears to be part of the explicit plan promoted by radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh to wreak havoc upon the Democratic Party by voting for Hillary Clinton.

<snip>

In January and February, while the Republican nomination contest was still being waged, just 3.9% of Democratic primary voters were self-described Republicans. On March 4, the day that John McCain won enough delegates to secure the Republican nomination, Republican participation in Democratic primaries more than doubled.

Forgive me if this is the second time in a row I posted something from DailyKos but I found this article quite interesting and would like to know what your thoughts are on this issue.

[NightWatcher]

1. excellent post

[k8conant]

2. Oops, I thought DK stood for Dennis Kucinich...

[FunkyLeprechaun]

3. Should I edit it to say DKos instead?

I think I should do that.

[Occam Bandage]

4. You should change the header to "DKos." "DK" means Kucinich.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

7. Done!

N/t :-)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

5. (Pretty pictures) Graphs:

[corkhead]

21. wow, those are devastating graphics

that should be it's own thread if it isn't already

[AtomicKitten]

24. devastating stats

or dem purdy picshures ain't so purdy a'tall

thanks for posting :)

[redqueen]

32. This really deserves its own thread.

Considering lots of Clinton's supporters around here like to pretend it's not happening.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

40. I'm sorry that I didn't include those in my OP

But thank you for posting them here for me! :-)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

50. All the credit goes to you.

:thumbsup:

[babylonsister]

6. Limbaugh. And big dawg goes on his show. No conflict there. nt

[bunnies]

8. 24% from Republicans?!!!

If thats not proof that they want to run against her, I dont know what is.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

9. Yep

They want her because they know that McCain can beat her. Obama can destroy McCain in the GE. I think that's pretty telling.

[K Gardner]

10. I heard 8% of Ohio was Republican as well. That would have cut her lead

to 2%, if true. So, if 24% of MS was Republican trying to rig our nomination, does that mean she would have only garnered 15% of the vote without it?

No way she can win the GE, none.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

12. That's right

I'm just waiting to see what the Clinton supporters say about this issue, I think it's a good subject to talk about.

[TwilightGardener]

19. I want the Superdelegates to realize this--her wins are falsely padded, and

NOT reflective of what will happen in the fall.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

41. Me too!

Hopefully Obama will get more SDs after this comes out.

[MattNC]

11. Kos is a hypocrite

I'm an Obama supporter and find this frustrating, but Kos encouraged Dems to vote for Romney in the Michigan primary.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

14. MI was different

Of the big three only Hillary was on the ballot. It was a meaningless election to the Democrats there as the delegates were stripped from the state and MI has a history of pranking the other party in election years. That's different.

And the post isn't by Kos it's by someone else.

[MattNC]

16. so noted, thanks n/t

[leftynyc]

26. So what's the difference?

The pubs have already decided their nominee - how is this different from what Markos recommended in MI?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

37. In the past the Pubs thought it'd be fun to prank the Dems

and try to get the most unelectable Democrat to win MI. That's different. This is for the GE and they want the most unelectable Dem to win the nomination so their guy can beat her. That's different.

[leftynyc]

42. Not following you

Markos wanted people to vote for Romney because he would have been easier to beat than McCain. How is that different?

[FunkyLeprechaun]

62. No Markos wanted

Romney to get some mo in order to slow McCain down... but that didn't work did it?

The Republicans voting in the primary for Clinton is really slowing Obama down.

Yep... totally apples and oranges.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. This is exactly what I suspected

1) Republican support for Obama early on was genuine. They actually liked him and they are willing to vote for him in the general election

2) Republican support for Hillary lately is not genuine at all. They want to divide the democrats. They want the weaker candidate and they would never vote for Hillary in the general election anyway.

Hillary is a disaster for the party right now and the Republicans love it.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

15. Exactly

1) There certainly were some Republicans who were disenfranchised by their own party and supported Obama instead.

2) Republicans who don't feel McCain can win against Obama and are trying to game the system so the only person McCain can beat runs against him (Hillary).

That's how I look at it.

[VolcanoJen]

17. Same thing happened in Ohio.

And my GOP coworkers down here in Lower Wingnuttia are still high-fiving themselves over having voted for Hillary.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

33. Of the deaf blogs I read

One is a major Republican from Texas and she did a photoblog about her friend who's a Republican and voted for Hillary.

That had me scratching my head as she put a photo of her friend wearing a t-shirt saying, "Friends don't let friends vote Democrat." I've been wondering why she had voted for Hillary and now this DKos post has explained it all to me.

[TwilightGardener]

18. Limpballs is encouraging PA GOPers to switch parties now (they have

until the 24th, it's a closed primary)--sickening.

[TwilightGardener]

20. And by the way, why don't the SD's see who the GOPers think is the REAL threat?

[bunnies]

27. Well isnt that just perfect.

Clintonists have been whining about Obamas genuine republican support... meanwhile, repubs are crossing over in droves to vote for their gal. And if she wins PA because of it we'll never know. This sucks.

[Beacool]

22. Excuse me,

but wasn't Obama the one bragging about how he could bring to his side the Independents and Republicans?

Well, it appears that so can Hillary!!!!

:eyes:

[TwilightGardener]

23. You've got to be shitting me, if you think her Repub support is genuine. Oh my God.

[Beacool]

29. Who am I to question their motives?

Did Obama question those voters who crossed party lines to vote for him? I think not, so the outrage is unfounded.

[TwilightGardener]

30. The GOP is openly admitting what they're doing in voting for Hillary.

on edit--Limbaugh is on right now promoting "Operation Chaos".

[FunkyLeprechaun]

43. No, the Obama Republicans

Are people who truly want Obama to be the nominee as they've been disenfranchised by their party. Not the Republicans who vote for Hillary, they want her to be the nominee so McCain can beat her in the GE.

[Arkansas Granny]

45. And just how can you tell one type of Republican from another?

Do the come equipped with tags for easy sorting or are they bar coded?

[KittyWampus]

51. you don't question anything unless it's spoon fed to you from Hillary's campaign

[Cali_Democrat]

25. Read the data more carefully and you'll notice a big difference

Copy paste from my previous post...

1) Republican support for Obama early on was genuine. They actually liked him and were willing to vote for him in the general election

2) Republican support for Hillary lately is not genuine at all. They want to divide the democrats. They want the weaker candidate and they would never vote for Hillary in the General Election.

[redqueen]

34. Deductive reasoning made this obvious a while back... but this makes it clear:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5039415&mesg_id=5039516

[Apollo11]

28. Every state should have a closed primary. Registered Democrats only.

Of course, that would mean Hillary Clinton is the Democratic Presidential Nominee! B-)

[Beacool]

36. Now, this is something we can fully agree!!!!

In all seriousness, I think that there should be only closed primaries. I have always felt that way, not just during this election season.

I hate caucuses and open primaries. Caucuses disenfranchise too many people who are unable to attend at the alloted time or who due to physical disabilities or age, can't stand around for the time required to process their vote.

As for open primaries, why should outside people to the party come in and disrupt the process? We who have worked in many campaigns find it infuriating to see this last minute supporters of some candidate come and throw the primary to another candidate.

In the primary season, Democrats should vote for Democrats and Republicans for Republicans, that's it! The rest will get their chance in the GE.

[bunnies]

38. Right. Because Repubs cant re-register as Dems.

:eyes:

[Apollo11]

39. There are ways to minimize the risk

Like having a rule that you must have already been registered as a Democrat for at least 6 or 12 months before the primary date.

[OHdem10]

31. It was ok when they were gaming it for Obama.?????

[redqueen]

35. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5039415&mesg_id=5039516

[bunnies]

44. kick nt

[DemGa]

46. "DKos" is a cesspool of Hillary hate ----NT

[mod mom]

52. as is DU, as is Huff Po, as is Keith Olberman, as is MSNBC, as is Air America...Did you ever think

there might be a reason? Karma is a bitch.

[DemGa]

54. You too huh? Too bad. All this hate will not end well---NT

[KittyWampus]

53. Hillary's campaign is a cesspool, period.

[DemGa]

57. The Obamanation is a cesspool of hate

I've never seen such hate from people -- really astounding.

Say Obamnation gets the nomination -- do you really believe he will get the Hillary supporters' vote?

It will be a disaster however it goes.

[mathewsleep]

47. ha ha, stupid republicans.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

48. This can be interpreted two ways, though.

Full disclosure: I myself voted for Obama, and will vote in the GE for whomever gets the nomination, even if the superdelegates end up being the deciding factor.

While it may be demonstrated that Republicans are crossing over to vote for Clinton, this could either be (a) trying to get the perceived "weaker" candidate to get the nomination, to get an advantage in November; or (b) trying to keep the candidate who is currently behind from dropping out, so that the eventual nominee (whether he or she) ends up drained of valuable resources for the GE.

[AtomicKitten]

49. He wins on demeanor alone.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

55. time for Party Leaders to speak up - Clinton dragging Dems into Mud

Hillary's running a racist divisive Rovian campaign.

[depakid]

56. For a while there, they were gaming it for Obama to get rid of Hillary!

:crazy:

[mod mom]

58. ON OHIO:

BTW IF ANYONE WHO READS THIS HAVE POSTING PRIVILEGES AT KOS PLEASE COPY THIS TO THEIR COMMENTS, THE MORE WHO READ THIS THE BETTER:

16,000 Republicans in Cuyahoga crossed over and voted Democratic in primary

Source: Plain Dealer

16,000 Republicans in Cuyahoga crossed over and voted Democratic in primary
Sunday, March 09, 2008
Amanda Garrett
Plain Dealer Reporter

A staggering 16,000-plus Republicans in Cuyahoga County switched parties when they voted in last week's primary.

That includes 931 in Rocky River, 1,027 in Westlake and 1,142 in Strongsville. More than a third of the Republicans in Solon and Bay Village switched. Pepper Pike had the most dramatic change: just under half its Republicans became Democrats. And some of those who changed - it's difficult to say how many - could be in trouble with the law.

At least one member of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections wants to investigate some Republicans who may have crossed party lines only to influence which Democrat would face presumed Republican nominee John McCain in November.


Those who crossed lines were supposed to sign a pledge card vowing allegiance to their new party...

-snip
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/120505162549970.xml&coll=2


Ohio GOP roots for Hillary
BY HOWARD WILKINSON | [e-mail]
E-mail | Print | digg us! | del.icio.us!
One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.

Her name is Hillary Clinton, and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and give them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall.

It is a belief that the Clinton campaign says is wrong-headed and they will campaign across the state for the next three weeks making the argument that their battle-tested, experienced candidate is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with John McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee this fall.

-snip

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080213/NEWS01/302130097



A movement is afoot ...

Some Republicans refer to it as "the plot."

It started a few weeks ago when conservative radio powerhouse Rush Limbaugh suggested that his Republican following cross over during the primary to vote for Clinton. Clinton, Limbaugh argued, would be easier for McCain to beat in November.

Soon, local morning radio show host Bob Frantz echoed Limbaugh on WTAM AM/1100, and the buzz began to grow.

-snip

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/crossover_voting_was_heavy_and.html

Turned away at poll? Click here
Some are told to wait - or come back later
BY JESSICA BROWN AND BARRETT J. BRUNSMAN | [e-mail] | [e-mail]

-snip
In that heavily Republican county, officials weren't prepared for the high number of Democratic ballots requested. Some voters waited for more than an hour for new ballots to be delivered; others were asked to come back later or asked to go to the county Board of Elections to vote.

The reason: a wave of "crossover" voting, in which normally Republican voters asked for Democratic ballots. In Clermont County, turnout surged to 43 percent Tuesday - compared with just 31 percent in the 2004 presidential primary.

-snip

Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner said there was also a "crossover problem" in Akron and elsewhere in Summit County where many Republicans and non-enrolled Ohioans voted Democratic.

-snip

Of Clermont County's 128,128 registered voters, 37,714 are registered Republicans and 14,496 are registered Democrats. With all precincts counted, 26,279 people had cast Democratic ballots and 28,032 had cast Republican ballots.

Warren County has 12,440 registered Democrats and 41,377 registered Republicans. With all precincts reporting, that county was reporting 27,855 Democratic ballots cast and 28,683 Republican.

-snip
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050380&template=printpicart



FROM OSU ELECTION LAW:

Cross-over voting under Ohio law

March 4, 2008

Edward B. Foley
Director, Election Law @ Moritz
Robert M. Duncan/Jones Day Designated Professor of Law
Moritz College of Law


Blogs at both the Plain Dealer and Dispatch are reporting Republican cross-over votes in the Democratic candidate for Senator Clinton on the ground that she would be an easier nominee for Senator McCain to beat. It is unclear how widespread this phenomenon is and whether, if calculable, could make a difference in either the statewide total popular vote or the awarding of delegates between Senators Clinton and Obama. There is also the question whether it is legal, and if not, whether it is remediable in any way.

Although it is widely reported that Ohio permits Republicans to vote in the Democratic primary (and vice versa), that is not technically true. Ohio law does permit voters to switch party affiliation on the day of the primary, but it has a rather awkward mechanism that attempts to ascertain that the switch is sincere—and to prevent insincere “party-raiding” of the kind that (as described above) is being reported today.

Section 3513.19 of the Ohio Revised Code states that it is the “duty” of poll workers in Ohio “to challenge the right of person to vote” in a particular party’s primary if a poll worker “doubts” the person’s eligibility based on the ground (among others) that the person is "not affiliated with or is not a member of the political party whose ballot the person desires to vote.” The same section further specifies that the poll worker is to determine the voter’s previous party affiliation by examining the voting records of the past two years. If those records show the voter to be a Republican, for example, then before giving the voter a Democratic ballot in the current primary, the statute then directs the poll worker to have the voter sign a “statement, made under penalty of election falsification, that the person desires to be affiliated with and supports the principles of the political party whose primary ballot the person desires to vote.”

This statement is supposed to be the test of the voter’s sincerity in switching party affiliation. Section 3513.20 of the Code make clear that a voter who refuses to sign the statement is to receive a provisional rather than regular ballot. Indeed, even if the voter is willing to sign the statement, but the majority of poll workers at the precinct believe the voter is not sincere in switching parties, then the poll workers are to give the voter a provisional rather than regular ballot.

-snip
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/freefair/articles.php?ID=367




LIMBAUGH:

▪ What might have actually happened in Ohio and Texas? Tin foil hat?
▪ Clip:
: "Rush, I understand that the Rush Limbaugh audience is mobilizing in Texas for Hillary. Am I hearing that right?"

: "I don't know if the audience is mobilizing or not. I am urging people — I am using a phrase — the Republicans — our nominee is chosen. It's John McCain.

Texas is open. And I want Hillary to stay in this, Laura. This is too good a soap opera. We need Barack Obama bloodied up politically, and it's obvious that the Republicans are not going to do it and don't have the stomach for it.

As you probably know, we're getting all kinds of memos from the RNC saying not to be critical there. Mark MacKinnon of McCain's campaign says he'll quit if they get critical over Obama.

This is the presidency of the United States you're talking about. I want our party to win. I want the Democrats to lose. They're in the midst of tearing themselves apart right now. It is fascinating to watch, and it's all going to stop if Hillary loses.

So yes, I'm asking to cross over and, if they can stomach it — I know it's a difficult thing to do to vote for a Clinton — but it will sustain this soap opera, and it's something I think we need. It would be fun, too."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=609&Itemid=113


I

An Obama-Hater for Clinton, Temporarily
BY JASON HOROWITZ | MARCH 5, 2008 | TAGS: POLITICSBARACK OBAMAHILLARY CLINTONOHIO

Meet Todd Appelbaum, a 46-year-old from Columbus, who wore a shirt that says “Osama for Obama” to the Clinton campaign’s election-night event in Ohio last night.
The white t-shirt, with an image of Barack Obama dressed in traditional Somali garb, is adorned with a blue Hillary Clinton button, although Appelbaum is not what one would call a real Hillary Clinton supporter.
“I voted for Hillary today,” he said, “because I’m concerned that, God forbid, Barack Obama will beat McCain. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

http://www.observer.com/2008/obama-hater-clinton-temporarily

[mod mom]

60. OOPS ONE MORE: Bill Clinton Went on Limbaugh:

Clinton Went On Limbaugh?

10 Mar 2008 10:34 am
You may have missed it - almost everyone missed it - but Bill Clinton was on Rush Limbaugh's show the day of the Texas primary. You can hear the radio here. Limbaugh himself was sick that day, apparently, but he had already urged Republicans to cross over to keep Hillary Clinton in the race. Bill saw an opening - and went there.

Now just wrap your mind around this: the Clintons were happy to support a cynical, partisan Republican campaign to wound the Democratic front-runner, and they were brazen enough to go on the Limbaugh show to do so.
There also seems little doubt that Republican mischief played a real role in affecting the results. And they call Obama's call for them to release their tax returns a tactic worthy of Ken Starr. I repeat: the chutzpah and the cynicism just leave you speechless. And as you find it impossible to do much but splutter, the Clintons plow on with new self-serving lies.

You know how I realized this? I saw first hand the way they dealt with gay issues in their first term. They didn't just wimp out on our push for marriage equality, they actively pivoted off homophobia to get a few points (ask Dick Morris; it's one of the things he's actually ashamed of in retrospect). The Clintons even put anti-gay ads on Christianist radio stations in the South to build support for the 1996 re-election. And they continue to show up at gay events claiming to be avatars for our civil rights. And the stupid gays still believe them!


http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/clinton-went-on.html

[FunkyLeprechaun]

63. I have posting priveleges on Kos

I'm user 3,979.... I can't believe how much DailyKos has grown since I joined. I don't comment very often though.

I'm actually glad for the 6 week respite before Pennsylvania... it seems that Hillary is more likely to shoot herself in the foot each time the week ends.

[Texas Hill Country]

59. Kos is embarrasingly partial... i have lost all respect.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

64. The original author of this isn't Kos

It's a guy from the Jed Report.

I've seen some Hillary supporter posts on DailyKos in the diaries.

Edit to emphasize that it's DailyKos and not Kos.

[jconner27]

61. Who won the most Republican states???

Last time I check your guy Obama had 12 Republican states.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

65. So?

Obama energizes conservative democrats enough for them to vote for him. This is the primary after all.

It's not a measure of what will happen in the GE though. We shall have to make predictions after the convention.

[KittyWampus]

66. kick