TYT: Hillary Clinton's Only Remaining Hope: Steal This Election

[ihavenobias]

NOTE: I would click the link below and read this at Huffington Post because the article includes several links of it's own.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cenk-uygur/hillary-clintons-only-re_b_91143.html

First of all, let's be clear on one thing - this race is over. Barack Obama has won. Hillary Clinton has lost. Obama's pledged delegate lead is insurmountable. He leads by about 150 delegates in that category. Hillary Clinton cannot and will not catch up to him.

Clinton's supposed big win last Tuesday amounted to a measly 6 to 7 delegate pick up. If that's a big win, then she needs approximately 20 more of those to get competitive. Obama might have picked up more delegates than that in Mississippi alone last night. He picked up twice as many delegates as that in South Carolina alone.

Even if Senator Clinton won the remaining nine contests with landslide victories, she wouldn't even get to within a 100 pledged delegates of Obama. Even if they re-voted in Michigan and Florida and she won by overwhelming majorities in those states, she still wouldn't be anywhere near Obama's numbers.

Her big claim to fame now is that she wins the big states and the swing states needed for the general election. I don't know why people take these claims seriously. First of all, so what? If she wants to win on big states alone she should move to a country where there are only big states. But in this country, where we have states of all sizes, she has lost.

Second of all, when did Massachusetts, New York and California become swing states? The election she theoretically won in Florida was not contested. So, her claim is that since she won Ohio, why don't we just give her the whole election?

Third of all, the fact that she wins these states in the primaries means absolutely nothing about what would happen in the general election. She won California - does that mean Obama would lose California to the Republican candidate? Of course not. The Democratic candidate will win California no matter what. Rhode Island is the state with the heaviest Democratic vote in the country. Does Hillary's win there mean that the Republican will win in Rhode Island in the fall? Don't be ridiculous.

The reverse of this argument is also true. Just because Obama won Idaho doesn't mean that the Democrats will win Idaho in the general election. These are apples and oranges comparisons. It's not really an argument worth discussing, except for the fact that the Clinton camp has done a good job of getting the press to actually discuss it.

The overall argument that she has lost the pledged delegate count but that she has won the more "important" states is asinine. Come on people, snap out of it. Obama has won nearly twice as many states as she has (29 to 15 in the last count). Are these states not important? Will the general election only be held in the states Hillary picks?

I'd love for her to make this argument in the general election - well, I lost the electorate count, but I won the important states like New York and California! Congratulations. Now go home.

So, why is Hillary Clinton still in the race - and still spending millions of dollars against Barack Obama? It's important to keep in mind that every dollar she spends attacking Obama now is a dollar in John McCain's pocket. This might give McCain a $20-30 million dollar advantage, if not more. He can't raise enough money on his own, but when he combines his attack ads with Hillary's, they're in pretty good shape.

Well, Senator Clinton is still in this race because she thinks she can still win this primary. How? By stealing it. She is willing to overturn the will of the voters by getting enough super delegates and switching Obama's pledged delegates to come up with a victory.

Remember, pledged delegates are supposed to vote the way their state voted. Earlier in the campaign, Senator Clinton's team said they would never go after Obama's pledged delegates. But now, Hillary Clinton herself in an interview with Newsweek has said that she will in fact do exactly that.

Now imagine if Obama won the elections with a comfortable margin, as he is clearly going to do, and then Hillary Clinton took the nomination anyway at the convention by getting super and pledged delegates to move against their own voters. How do you think that would play?

The convention would be an utter disaster. The election would be a fraud. The party would be in shambles. All so that Senator Clinton can win at all costs. It's too outrageous a thought to even consider the possibility. But that's exactly what the Clinton campaign is banking on right now. Come on, is she really going to do that?

Imagine how Obama's voters - the majority of the party, by the way - would feel if Hillary Clinton was selected by the party elders even if she lost the election. They would, justifiably, feel robbed. To say they would be disenfranchised is a gigantic understatement. Do you think they would show up to vote for Senator Clinton in November?

In the one year Democrats have an excellent chance of winning the presidency, would they really sink their own chances like this? Well, we know the answer to that question.

Speaking for myself, I can't imagine a worse outcome than having another Republican candidate who agrees completely with George Bush win the presidency. But can I really get myself to vote for someone who stole the election in the primaries? I don't think so. So, here's my solution...(For the rest, click the link at the top of the page)

[texastoast]

1. Premature speculation n/t

[caledesi]

11. Not speculation but FACT NT

[Cha]

30. hilary's the one who prematurely popped

the corks for Texas.

[LVjinx]

45. If Obama has 2025 pledged delegates, and Hillary gets the nom, it will have been stolen.

Likewise, if Hillary has 2025 pledged delegates, and Obama gets the nomination, it will have been stolen.

However, both of these scenarios are numerically impossible.

[bluestateguy]

2. She'll need landslides in PA and FL and MI (if they count)

Plus a win in North Carolina, Indiana and big wins in Kentucky and West Virginia.

But if she can come back from this deficit fair and square, then she's a good candidate who deserves the nomination.

So, Hillary. Bring it on. Let's see what you've got.

[shraby]

7. She can't make up the deficit no matter how

many or how big her wins from here out.

[caledesi]

12. I agree! NT

[Cali_Democrat]

14. Landslide in Michigan for Clinton in a re-vote?

:rofl:

[JackORoses]

41. She'll need landslides in every state. >60% of the votes

Not going to happen.

[antigop]

3. previous threads on this topic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5021518&mesg_id=5021518

and

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5030465

[ihavenobias]

6. Great. But not a single previous thread on *this* exact article by Cenk Uygur

:)

[antigop]

9. Oh, I didn't mean to imply that...just supplying background info

I said "on this topic"...not the "same article".

I also posted another good read downthread.

Just trying to provide more info. That's all.

[ihavenobias]

15. Sorry if I read that the wrong way. I edited my last message to include this :)

So here's another. :)

[antigop]

16. Thanks for the thread -- a good read. n/t

[jgraz]

4. Cenk rules. K&R

[Cha]

31. Our Young

Turk!

[CherylK]

5. Great article by Cenk! And I loved your segment about this too! n/t

[thereismore]

8. Hey, it's Cenk! I like his style and logic. nt

[Bullet1987]

10. This has been known for a while...but of course the MSM will ignore it

And pretend she has a chance in hell.

[Cha]

33. The m$$$m should be made accountable

with more than egg on their face for prolonging hilary's misery.

[antigop]

13. be sure to read this one, too...."I'll go to the Democratic convention with a pitchfork....

if Hillary steals Obama's pledged delegates
http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/03/11/ill-go-to-democratic-convention-with-a-pitchfork-if-hillary-ste/
>>
After adamantly claiming that she would not go after Obama's pledged delegates (those are the ones assigned by the elections in these primaries), Hillary Clinton has now reversed her position. She just told Newsweek that she will in fact try to get the pledges delegates that Obama won in the elections to change their votes and defy the voters of their states. All in order to crown Hillary Clinton the winner of the primary even if she loses the primary.

That's lower than low. That's not just dirty, that's Republican. A move straight out of the Karl Rove handbook.

It's also outright robbery. If she tries to steal this election by circumventing the will of the Democratic primary voters, I'll go to the Democratic convention with a pitchfork. And I'll bring an army with me. This cannot and will not stand.
>>

[ihavenobias]

17. Thanks, somehow I missed that one. There is also the clip

that's doing quite well: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x103859

[rodeodance]

18. so from an O. camper:" I'll go to the Democratic convention with a pitchfork"

[ihavenobias]

20. As I explained to someone yesterday, this is *obviously* a bit of hyperbole

He's not speaking literally here. It's an expression. I think if anyone tries to suggest otherwise, they're being disingenuous.

[Usrename]

23. Not true.

Tallahassee almost went up seven years ago after Bush v. Gore. This will be much, much worse. Just look around.

[rodeodance]

24. I am sure it is. Unusual though--it caught my eye..

[Usrename]

22. You still don't see the magnitude of what is happening, do you?

Denver won't be the only city that burns down, either. At some point, you will be forced to take your head out of the sand.

[rodeodance]

25. I see your language as rather violent 'denver burning down' ?? or is that 'hyperbole" also?

"You still don't see the magnitude of what is happening, do you?

Denver won't be the only city that burns down, either. At some point, you will be forced to take your head out of the sand."

[Usrename]

26. You don't have any clue, do you?

How do you think violence happens? Do you think that there are just a lot of bad people out there that want to break stuff?

What kind of pretend world are you living in?

[rodeodance]

27. I will not continue to contribute to his thread anymore.

[Usrename]

28. Put your head a little deeper in the sand.

Were not REALLY descending into fascism, that's just more hyperbole.

There are no signs of anything bad happening if we just stay the course.

:sarcasm:

[Cha]

34. hilary's itchin' to foist herself on

us Democrats and so many of us are hopin' she finds her own petard first.

[Hawkeye-X]

42. I'll be there with the torches

If Clinton tries to steal the SD votes.... and I live right here in Denver, and Pepsi Center is less than 4 miles from me.

Hawkeye-X

[OhioChick]

19. K&R

:kick:

[navarth]

21. I'd just really like to see the Clinton campaign, supporters do one thing:

win or lose, let's show some class. Yes I KNOW the same could be directed to certain Obama fans, believe me I've run into it a couple of times. But the thing is: it looks like Senator Clinton isn't going to be the nominee, so it would be nice if she went out (or continued ahead) with a more classy style of campaigning. The win-at-all costs stuff is disappointing.

I've stated many times that I'll vote for Clinton if she's the candidate. But the kitchen sink style she's been using lately has increased my discomfort with the idea of voting for her. I guess I'll still have to do it if she wins somehow, but I don't see how she wins at this point without using dirty tricks or dirty campaigning.

Need some party unity here. k & r

[Cha]

29. "Congratulations, now go home"!

Awesome, analysis by The Young Turk, Cenk Uygur, thanks, ihavenobias!


"Her big claim to fame now is that she wins the big states and the swing states needed for the general election. I don't know why people take these claims seriously. First of all, so what? If she wants to win on big states alone she should move to a country where there are only big states. But in this country, where we have states of all sizes, she has lost."

[Scurrilous]

32. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Growler]

35. Kick

[CherylK]

46. Bump!

[FrenchieCat]

36. If she were a Black man, would she still be in the race with the math as it is?

IF she were a Black man providing McCain with soundbytes against the Democratic White candidate that was ahead of her-him in the election?

[Cha]

37. The only would who's getting away with this is..

And the m$$$m who is foisting 'er on us.

[IDemo]

38. My post from the first time she announced this strategy

seems it applies once again, now that she has undone the denial

I told myself a few years ago to quit using the phrase "I can't believe it". In an age where the outrages have become so regular a part of daily life in Bushmerica, the utterly unbelievable has become routine. Still, the daily headlines continue to push the envelope with sadly believable surprises.

It is with shock but no surprise that I read of "a senior Clinton official" telling Politico's Roger Simon that "all rules are out the window" in reference to campaign strategy, by stating that "pledged" delegates may now be vigorously recruited in the same fashion as super delegates are. This, supposedly in an end-run attempt to avoid the appearance of Super D's performing the subrogation for her at a brokered convention and denying the will of the people. While the Super D's are party functionaries or elites whose voting mandate is alternately described as 1) must reflect the will of the majority, or 2) must exercise their better judgement regardless of the will of the people, pledged delegates are widely regarded as virtual Electoral College votes. They are divided up in a number of different ways depending on the formula their state party uses, but ostensibly to reflect the intent of the voters first and foremost.

If the plan has now been officially denied by the Clinton campaign, it seems to follow a disturbingly predictable pattern of a surrogate chumming the media water, waiting for a response, and the campaign later denying any wrongdoing or involvement.

While the DNC rules may indeed indicate that any delegate, pledged or not, may change his or her mind, the expectation that they will has been virtually non-existent up until the current primary campaign. There simply has been no such closely divided contest heretofore where it would have made a difference, short of a mass migration. One could easily attempt to dismiss any complaints against such a tactic by arguing that both sides can take advantage of the rule(s), therefore, no foul. But whether one or both sides would choose to do so misses the point: while it may be open to debate how a super delegate casts her ballot, it should be taken as sacrosanct that a pledged delegate will remain true to the votes cast in his or her state's primary election or caucus. To do otherwise makes a mockery of the election process, rendering voters from all states irrelevant.

I am not irrelevant. You are not irrelevant. We are Democrats, members of a party whose very name honors the most defining part of a free society: open and fair elections. Our vote counts. Or it should.

I feel as strongly about this issue as any that have been raised in an already bitterly contentious contest. For any candidate (or their surrogates) to even suggest the possibility of circumventing the will of the people in such a manner is every bit as outrageous in its own way as the election theft of Supreme Court/Florida 2000.

[antigop]

39. good post! I missed it the first time. Thanks for posting. n/t

[theredpen]

40. It's 21st Century America!

Ever since the turn of the century, the key to winning the Presidency is to steal elections. Maybe Clinton is on to something. :)

[Life Long Dem]

43. Things are getting heavy for her to bow out.

I'd like to kknow where Hillary supporters are regarding her tactics to win this.

Are Hillary supporters okay with her trying to steal an election that we have had stolen from us in the last two elections?

Would Hillary supporters do this to our democractic party? Would you?

[ihavenobias]

44. Good Questions n/t