This election has stopped being fun at all ...

[Steeler1623]

I'll admit it, early on this election had a big entertainment factor for me. But now it is turning into a grim death struggle within the party, with Rush Limbaugh gleefully cheering us on.

The simple fact of the matter is that we're ALL the losers in this race. If Hillary wins, think how much stronger a position she would have been in if she had won the nomination on Super Tuesday. She wouldn't have most of the liberal blogosphere and much of the liberal media like Keith Olbermann disliking and/or hating her. The same applies for Obama- Hillary has managed to convince many downscale white voters that Obama should be looked upon with suspicion and I doubt those feelings will magically disappear if he wins.

And if Hillary poisons the well for Obama and he loses to McCain as a result, it's not like those of us who support Obama are going to forgive or forget. I see a long-term civil war going on within the party, all at a time when we should be a shoo-in to win. The whole campaign has been dragged down to a grim, depressing level based on race and social divisions, and that's the level where Hillary will do best. Except she mathematically can't do well enough to catch Obama, so all she will have done at the end of the day is destroy our party's chances in the quest for power. Depressing.

[Vinca]

1. I agree with you completely. It's all very depressing.

Yet another year when I might end up voting against someone instead of voting for someone. I was so optimistic at the beginning.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. I disagree.

I've got a good case of schadenfreude right now.

I don't think this latest nonsense will effect the GE. Maybe if it continues to the convention. Maybe.

[JackintheGreen]

6. You're enjoying this???

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Yeah.

Funnest primary in years.

[sniffa]

13. I'm enjoying the self-imolation of our resident Hillbots

It's also fun to watch HRC going down in flames. Fuck her.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. She had her chance to do the right thing and drop out.

Instead, she continued to embarass and marginalize herself.

[sniffa]

18. Maybe the Clinton Brand will over for good after this

:woohoo:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. I think that goes without saying.

[tridim]

38. That's the strategy the party elders should use..

Shame her into withdrawing. She's obviously not listening to the Democratic voters, so the elders should start speaking out loudly and daily until she drops out.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. Actually, i'm a little sad to see such iconic Dems as Bill & Hill going

down in flames - but go they must, and take the whole DLC with them.

It was a bad experiment gone wrong. It's time to pull the plug.

[tabasco]

3. Obama's not going to lose.

He will crush McCain like a rotten grape.

[jobycom]

4. So let's stop the election now before anyone else has a chance to vote divisively.

Damn all us downscale white voters for seeing things differently. :)

[earthlover]

8. wow--doesn't Hillary have more than those voters?

[jobycom]

12. You gotta ask the OP that one, I was just using his "facts." nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. She doesn't even have all them --

I'm a decidedly downscale white voter - and a boomer, to boot, who cannot support her.

[blm]

5. Now you know how Gore loyalists felt after 2000 and Kerry loyalists felt after 2004 about the

Clintons and their efforts to undermine the Dem nominees then.

It was witnessed by historian Douglas Brinkley in 2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Bill was VERY public in his defense of Bush during his 2004 book tour:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville quietly sabotaged Ohio Dem voters on election night:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

And Hillary couldn't resist validating Bush and McCain's smear of Kerry in 2006.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


The Gore camp has its stories, too.

The difference the last two years is that Hillary is OPENLY running her campaign for president, when in the years prior her camp depended more on stealth tactics.

[VolcanoJen]

25. Nice round-up

The Clintons made me queasy back in 2000, pissed off in 2004, and now, I'm basically just livid.

The OP is right; it has become a bit depressing. But I do think this is one of those moments in history where there's a struggle for the heart and soul of the party. The status quo is melting away, enormous DC power players are infuriated about potentially having to cede their power to a new generation, and the old-school is suffering death throes.

It's uncomfortable. But, the only way past it is through it.

[blm]

26. I think it's why Obama and Kerry both EMPHASIZE that they don't want to do politics

of destruction BETTER than the other guy, they seek to END it as a political tool to DIVIDE the country.

I believe they are showing RESPECT for our role as citizens.

[cottonseed]

7. Hillary's just getting warmed up.

And to think only a few months ago the nation was fired up and ready to go. By the time we get to NC we'll all wish we were dead.

[skypilot]

10. When was it fun?

I must have slept in that day. The whole thing has depressed me from the beginning and it just keeps getting worse.

[Coyote_Bandit]

11. It has turned into a prolonged suicide attempt

It's kind of like watching a train wreck - and knowing the driver of the car chose to stop on the tracks. Will they exit and jump to safety at the last minute?

Personally I think the candidates need to go off somewhere and make their own deal - whatever that is. The fact that they haven't/won't indicates that they are far more innvested in their own ego and potential for power and position than they are in the well being of the nation and the party. That is an equal opportunity observation.

After the rancor of this primary season it will be difficult to pity Dems if we get our butts kicked in the general election. There is plenty of blame to go around. It doesn't rest just with the candidates.

[Steeler1623]

17. I don't blame Hillary for not conceding, and Obama is ahead so of course he shouldn't

I do blame Hillary for her obvious strategy of dragging this campaign into the mud so that Obama's message of hope is drowned out.

[Coyote_Bandit]

23. Who is talking about a concession?

I'm not.

Politics is inherently practical. Sometimes leadership that actually accomplishes things requires dealmaking. Deals are about a whole lot more than the name on the ballot. Advisors, priorities, issues and appointments for example.

Apparently neither of our remaining candidates are willing to cowboy up and deal. That means they personally are invested in winning rather than serving the people. It is about them and their ego - not the nation or the party. That is selfish and arrogant.

[AndyA]

15. This has never been fun for me.

A challenge, yes.

Interesting, yes.

But my hope for real change is gone. My hope for things becoming better for all Americans is gone.

John McCain? He won't do it. He's McSame as McBush.

Hillary? She isn't going to do it. She owes too many of the D.C. elite. She'll be better than any Republican, no doubt about it, but she isn't going to make any significant change because she's indebted to the same old establishment entities.

Barack? Nothing in his history indicates he has a clue of what needs to be done, and he's going to go in and have the enemy sit at the table and he thinks the enemy will be willing to give up some of its hard earned benefits. Think again, Barack.

Real change? I'll believe it when I see it at this point. But it won't come from any of the top three candidates, you can make book on that.

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. "...he's going to go in and have the enemy sit at the table and he thinks the enemy will be willing

to give up some of its hard earned benefits."

What does that mean, exactly? Is there a monolithic enemy? What "benefits"? Is it easier to understand the enemy by talking, or by throwing cruise missiles at them?

What, exactly, is the problem with diplomacy?

Talking is the ONLY way we will see any change.

[AndyA]

35. The enemy in this instance is the American corporation.

The same American corporation who has been raping you and me during the Bush years.

The same American corporation that has been making record profits.

The same American corporation that abuses the American consumer with ridiculous fees, charges, and policies.

They've spent a lot of money to get where they are today, and they aren't going to give it up so easily. John Edwards basically said their ill-gotten gains will have to be taken away from them forcibly, that they aren't going to be generous about it.

Barack wants to play nice with them, after they've spent millions to get where they are today. Do you really think they're going to just give it all back? No way.

[Roxy66]

16. I love Hillary...but I feel someone needs to give.

I have been excited every night after work to hit my Tivo and get my politics fix...Go Dems!. But, as of late I have been somewhat avoiding watching my favorite shows....it is getting very ugly. Dean had better lay down the law and figure something out soon....the party needs to stop bickering and do the grown up thing and unite!

[skooooo]

19. well....it is real life...

Real life can be grim. We have a lot of grim situations to clean up after Bush...

[SeattleGirl]

21. That's how I'm feeling too.

At the beginning, I was excited. I was an Edwards supporter (yeah, one of the white guys, but so what?), but I loved it that we also had a woman, a black man, and an Hispanic in the race. I could have gone with any of them.

But now, it has gotten so ugly, and the fight is fracturing the Democratic party. I just want this to be over, and have the target of anger be John McCain, not Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama.

It isn't fun any more.

[enid602]

22. interesting

It could get interesting, depending how and how soon the Rezko case develops.

[workinclasszero]

24. Hillary could have left the race with grace and dignity.

She could have done it after that one debate. Stupid me, I really thought she was going to do it.

She would've been a hero and an icon to democrats forever had she done so. She would have ensured a massive landslide for Obama and party in the GE that would have changed the USA for generations to come.

A Congress that for once in my lifetime would be listening to the people. But no, that dream is dead now.

Now we have a divided party. Divided by race, gender, age and fear.

The Republican party could not have dreamed of a better outcome than this! This is Rush Limbaugh's and Karl Roves glory!

If Obama does get the nomination this fall, he will be bloodied and exhausted from fighting Hillary's kitchen sink strategy all year long.

If he wins the GE, it will be just barely. Look for 4 more years of divided government while Wall Street, the war and oil profiteers continue to rape and savage the american public.

Why one person would crush the hopes and dreams of millions of people to gain an office she can't have, I leave for others to find out.

Money can't be it as Hillary is so fabulously wealthy she fears releasing her tax returns. The middle-class defender who brought the NAFTA plague to Ohio and Michigan would look like a massive hypocrite then.

Whatever the reasons...


For killing the best chance America has had in this generation to live up to its lofty ideals, Hillary Rodham Clinton richly deserves the title of "monster."

[Pathwalker]

27. The civil war within the Democratic party HAS been going on

since the sixties, so it already IS long term! How come you don't even know THAT?

[olkaz]

28. BAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Man up.

This is politics.

[klyon]

29. or at least that is the right wing media's presentation

frankly I don't see it?


Politics is a serious business
comedy is just a way to let off steam so we don't explode

[backscatter712]

30. She wants us to be disgusted.

Part of the Rovian strategy that Hillary is employing is to deliberately poison the well.

They want politics to be seen as sleazy. They want us to be disgusted.

Because fundamentally, they want us to take our ball and go home. That's a natural reaction to being dragged in the sewer, and they're counting on it.

They want us to leave, so they can have the field to themselves.

Don't let them do that to us.

Stay in the game.

It's a battle of attrition, one that we cannot afford to lose.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. The long-scale civil war within the party has been going on

for three decades, now.

DLC on one side. Democrats on the other. (yeah, I know the DLC has only been around for 23 years, but the people behind it have been undermining progressives and populists for much longer.

[applegrove]

36. I agree it has stopped being fun. I disagree that the Dem nominee will

not win the election. I think turnout will be upwards of 70% because we will see all those Dems who never bothered to vote in the past out voting this time. And then we win.

[jgraz]

37. This election has stopped. Period.

It's been over since the Wisconsin primary. Hillary's just too stupid to figure it out.

[Orsino]

39. There's too much important work to be done for this to be fun.

Our Dem president will have too much on his/her plate for frivolity. I don't much care whether the candidates or their supporters are enjoying the race.

[sfam]

40. Agreed. Its more like watching a trainwreck when people you care about are on-board...

You still can't turn away, but all you get is this sick pit in your stomach with every new development.

[stillcool]

41. No fun for me. Scary shit.

we are going down the tubes. I think the only thing that matters now is if we're going to keep it together when we hit bottom or will we break apart.