It's over - Clinton will NOT be allowed to seat MI or FL. She refused the viable options.

[Hawkeye-X]

This is directly from the L.A. Times article:

Less expensive alternatives -- like mail-in voting or caucuses -- have been discussed, but Clinton today seemed to rule that out.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign13mar13,0,2495114.story


She *STILL* insists seating the illegal delegates from MI and FL, which was sanctioned by the DNC on Jan 29th when they moved up their primaries a week early.

[K Gardner]

1. She ruled out mail in yesterday via her FL Surrogate, Wasserman-Schultz.

[feedingfrenzy]

8. HRC supporters: prepare to get your marching shoes on.

If FL and MI are disenfrancised, there will be marches.

[K Gardner]

11. Let us know when and we'll bring some water for ya. Good luck with that.

[Lucky 13]

18. Take a long march off a short pier. n/t

[Political Heretic]

25. Hopefully they march to the state capital.

[Cali_Democrat]

38. There's nothing scarier than a bunch of low income old white women marching

Look out everybody

[Tellurian]

35. What malarkey! It's not over ! Not by a longshot!

Last I heard, Obama wants to split the vote with Hillary!

[hogwyld]

36. A split would be fine with me

As it still keeps our delegate lead intact.

[Tellurian]

43. Well, a 50/50 split is not fine with us..

especially where Obama campaigned in FL, when he pledged not to!

Hillary abided by the rules. Obama cheated!

[SharonRB]

2. Thanks for the disenfranchisement, Hillary

Without an agreement, we will not be seated at all, I'm afraid.

[Me.]

3. So She Has The Only Say?

Very Dem of her

[NightWatcher]

5. nope, both her and Obama, the DNC, FL and MI have to agree

if one party doesnt agree, it's out the window

[flyarm]

4. Dean has been pushing caucus down our throats .. since the bill was signed in May

..Fla dems have said no and we mean no!

Fla has primaries..closed ..and we will not accept a caucus..we have too many senior citizens and vets who are disabled.. and active duty military who would be disenfranchised.

It is unacceptable in Fla.

fly

[Hawkeye-X]

6. Fly - so there was another option for the senior citizens that Dean okayed..

and that was the mail-in balloting, and Clinton said no.

It's over. Clinton will not do anything but disenfranchise the entire state of Michigan and Florida.

Hawkeye-X

[flyarm]

7. where did Dean officially sign onto the mail in vote..did i miss that ..i was away..

for a few days i needed a breather from the nastiness here...

fly

[high density]

10. Dean is waiting for the state parties to come up with a solution

and have it agreed on by both of the candidates. It's not up to him to "sign onto" it. He's not going to pay for it anyway.

Bill Nelson floated the idea of mail-in balloting but it seems a bit unfeasible given the time constraints.

[flyarm]

17. this was a St Pete Times opinion today...

http://www.sptimes.com/2008/03/12/Opinion/No_new_primary.shtml

No new primary
By A Times Editorial
Published March 12, 2008


Slapping together a do-over presidential primary by mail for Florida Democrats is not the way out of this election debacle. There are too many problems to overcome, and the potential for another embarrassing botched election is too great. The only reasonable course is to let the battle between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama play out all the way to the Democratic National Convention if that is what it takes.

Mail-in ballots might work just fine in Oregon, but Florida has no experience with them. Now is not the time to learn. Such a primary run by the state party without any state involvement would lack credibility, and Florida Democrats have neither the skill nor the organizational strength to conduct one. The state is not well-positioned to run another statewide election, and many county elections supervisors have their hands full replacing voting machines and preparing for the general election in November. It is not even clear that a mail-in ballot primary could be conducted legally without a change in state law.

Then there is the question of cost. Legislative leaders have made it clear they will not spend state money for a new election. The Florida Democratic Party does not have the money. The idea that some fat-cat Democrats from other states would send down a few big checks to pay for an election is unappealing at best.

Holding another Florida Democratic primary is not likely to change the dynamics of the battle for the nomination. Clinton likely would move closer to Obama in the delegate count, but she would not pick up enough delegates to decide the outcome. While we recommended Obama before the January primary that did not count, this is not about protecting his current advantage in the delegate tally. The logistical challenges for conducting another election are too difficult to overcome, and Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson should stop pushing for a fix that is not realistic.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the disenfranchisement of Florida Democrats: the Republican governor and Republican-controlled Legislature, who ignored the political party warnings of penalties when they moved up the election; Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean, who cared more about petty rules than voters; and Clinton and Obama, who could have shown some backbone and campaigned here despite the threats from early-voting states to shun them.

click link for the rest..

[high density]

34. I've got no problem with what they have proposed and agree with a lot of what they've said

But they're going overboard blaming people for what happened. Howard Dean was just enforcing the rules. The candidates were just holding up a pledge they had signed that said they'd not campaign in the state. I fail to see how this is the fault of either Dean or the candidates when Florida only has itself to blame.

[Justice Is Comin]

44. They're a blatant hack for the snake oil salesman.

[lojasmo]

22. Dean has specifically stated that mail-in is fine...

as long as the state party and both candidates agree.

[DJ13]

9. Fla dems have said no and we mean no!

And Dean said then you dont count, so you wont count.

Your choice.

[Independent-Voter]

28. You dumbassess in Florida brought this on yourselves. STFU!

Next time you might want pay attention to what your elected officials are voting on. They're the ones that sold you up the river by trying to overreach.

[Jillian]

12. More bs - Fla and Mi are still trying to work out the details.

[BzaDem]

13. Why do you have to misrepresent everything?

"Honor the results or hold new primary elections," she said. "I don't see any other solutions that are fair and honor the commitment that two and a half million voters made in the Democratic primaries in those two states."


That's from the article. Right from the article.

She is not saying that the old delegates have to be seated. She is saying she would be FINE with new primary elections. Just because she doesn't like the procedural problems with a caucus or mail-in election doesn't mean she wouldn't be fine with a revote.

[anigbrowl]

14. Wow - a gross tactical error on her part

For a few reasons.

By unilaterally ruling this out, she has now become the 'bad guy' - everyone has been talking about a compromise that would allow people in those states to have a vote, but now she's identified as the 'my way or no way' candidate, and any arguments from her campaign about seating the delegates are basically going to come down 'please change the rules for us'.

(And if I remember correctly, there's a Clinton quote floating around where she said (before the primaries started) that 'Michigan doesn't count, of course' - can anyone remember where that was? I forgot to book mark it.)

Also, perhaps more importantly, it sends a clear signal to voters that she doesn't think she'd do as well if there was a revote. In other words, she's afraid to campaign in those two states because she figures she'll be worse off if she does.

[Bullet1987]

15. She won't get the Florida and Michigan delegates seated as is...

that shit won't happen no matter how hard she cries.

[MadHound]

16. Well of course she's wanting to seat the current delegates from those states

She was able to accrue a large victory there using unfair tactics. She's going to reject any other plan that doesn't allow her to keep those ill-gotten delegates.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

24. Have to admit, Hillary does quite well when no one else's name is on the ballot.

[Ian_rd]

19. Counting the results as is is, of course, completely stupid. But I support a new primary.

That article implied that Clinton is in favor of a new primary, but not in favor of a mail-in version. Why would that be? Both are a redo.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

20. She can insist all she wants - ain't gonna happen.

[Medusa]

21. So will this put an end to all the BS posts about how Obama was

disenfranchising voters?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Please Stop Making Up Lies About A Good Dem.

[Hawkeye-X]

27. What lies? It's the truth, friend.

And even primaries is out of question due to cost. Mail-in and caucuses aren't Hillary's domain.

All Hillary wants either primaries or seat the old delegates, which neither is going to happen.

It's over.

I'm telling the truth.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Please Stop Making Up Lies About A Good Dem.

[Hawkeye-X]

37. I'm afraid you're ingrained in a one-track mind.

Obama is a good Democrat as well. Hillary, however is not. She's a spoiled brat thinking that everything is going her way up until Feb 5th, when Obama rightfully stopped her.

Answer me this question - why is your name OperationMindCrime? It's a crime to have a sign name and support Hillary - honestly. She's brainwashing you terribly.

Hawkeye-X

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. Please Stop Making Up Lies About A Good Dem.

[Az_lefty]

26. so it's Clinton's decision? Who the fuck came up with this?

[Drachasor]

30. She also runs the "Ready to be President" test apparently

[Arkansas Granny]

31. Your subject line is misleading. Clinton does not have that authority.

This is what Clinton actually said: "Honor the results or hold new primary elections," she said. "I don't see any other solutions that are fair and honor the commitment that two and a half million voters made in the Democratic primaries in those two states."

The phrase "rule that out" was from the author of the LAT article, not Clinton.

[goodgd_yall]

32. Your post is deceptive

Read the article and then get back to us.

[Milo_Bloom]

33. Why does Clinton have any say in the matter?

This isn't and shouldn't be up to her or Obama.

[burythehatchet]

39. L'etat, c'est moi n/t

[krawhitham]

41. Hill thinks BO will blink and give in

allowing them to be seated as voted, she will reject all possible solutions hoping to pressure Obama, her supporters will scream,cry, & bitch to the media that Obama is disfranchising votes because we will not accept the vote as is

Lets hope she is wrong

They broke the rules, they knew it at the time. The were willing to lose this years primary so they could vote early and it would count in the next cycle

[dansolo]

42. So reduce them by 50% and seat them

If they award Obama the Uncommitted vote in MI, Hillary will only gain about 30 pledged delegates that way. It won't be enough.

[Metric System]

45. Is this bizarro world. It's the Obama camp that's against re-voting. In fact, an Obama surrogate was

on Wolf Blitzer's show tonight (Rep. Wexler from Florida) and he was speaking out against mail-in voting. Blitzer even asked him if he opposed it because the Obama camp was worried that Hillary would win Florida. More info on the Obama camp being against re-voting:

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/12/17353/7404

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/12/151551/198

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/3/11/13245/8058