I'm Changing My OP!: Clinton Campaign Claims Obama is in a "Downward Spiral"

[MadBadger]

Below all this is my original OP on Pledged delegates not mattering anymore, but I came across this line of spin and had to post it.

Campaign memo punches back after Obama team downplays Pennsylvania’s importance.

Notes that Obama has lost six of the seven largest states, and says Pennsylvania’s swing voters are crucial for a November victory. Read it here.


“If Barack Obama cannot reverse his downward spiral with a big win in Pennsylvania, he cannot possibly be competitive against John McCain in November.”


http://thepage.time.com/2008/03/12/clinton-campaign-obama-in-downward-spiral/

I didnt realize a downward spiral meant being up big in pledged delegates, total delegates, popular vote, and winning the last two races. What on Earth was I thinking....LOL.



Obama has the lead and will go into the convention with a lead in pledged delegates, you can count on it. Now, its all about popular vote. I think that is the only hope Hillary has left. She needs to win the popular vote in order to have any chance of wooing superdelegates to win the nomination. With Obama's 100,000 vote victory in MS, according to RCP, Obama is up 702,162 votes, with Obama victories in Washington, Iowa, and Maine and Clinton Victory in Nevada, not releasing their popular vote numbers yet. Therefore with those numbers, Obama will go up even more most likely. So in order to do this, I think Hillary needs to blow him out in PA, because otherwise, she will not close the popular vote lead enough. They botht have their share of good states coming up. Obama will probably win in North Carolina, Oregon, Montana, South Dakota. Clinton Will probably win in Pennsylvania, Kentucky, West Virginia (I think), and possibly Puerto Rico...Indiana to me is a tossup. So there is a good chance that without a big win in PA, Obama will still be up by a wide margin.


This just states why Florida and Michigan are so important. While I think Obama will win Michigan in a revote, dFlorida will most likely go to Clinton and still could by a healthy margin.

But in the long run, its not about delegates anymore. For the Clinton's to win, they need to win the popular vote, because the Superdelegates are not going to go against the will of the people via the popular vote and pledged delegates.

[hogwyld]

1. She could lobby for the Caucuses to not count

That should even things up a bit.:sarcasm:

[Political Heretic]

2. He'd still lead - Chris Todd did the math on that

[MadBadger]

7. You mean Chuck?

[Political Heretic]

29. Yeah Chuck! Thanks... I thought I got that wrong.

[dchill]

16. Elected delegates > "Caucus delegates"

It's the new Hillary mantra.

[dchill]

44. Yup. The Clinton campaign has already re-defined...

some delegates as "caucus delegates." That'll work.

[Seen the light]

3. She has absolutely positively zero chance of beating him in any category that matters

- Pledged delegates
- Delegates overall
- States won
- Popular vote

She has turned into the Mike Huckabee of the Democratic Party.

[dchill]

17. Please don't insult Mike Huckabee...

at least he ran an honest campaign.
;)

[CreekDog]

4. Jesus has endorsed Obama?

Just lookin' at your logo.

[MadBadger]

5. Everyone always tells me that I believe Obama is my messiah...

[grantcart]

6. of course that completely disenfranchises the caucus voters but they didn't count either

[MadBadger]

8. Kicking for a change to the OP

[Cali_Democrat]

9. This is very Orwellian

I just don't know what to say about Clinton's Campaign. They think we're all idiots.

The revision of history in the favour of the State's interpretation of it.

[AZBlue]

39. Isn't it weird? And it's not even a revision of history - it's a revision of today's reality.

It's getting a bit scary.

[scheming daemons]

10. GAINING delegates since BEFORE OH/TX is now "downward spiral"????

Wow..... Clintonistas really ARE bad at math.

[my3boyz]

11. HAHAHAHAHA Thanks for the laugh! They are so desperate!!!nt

[C_U_L8R]

12. What is wrong with the Clintons?

This is not an effective attack ... it's just lying.
Have they lost their freakin' minds?

[Cha]

18. I think the clintons are

stuffing themselves with their bullshit egos and thinks our country will overlook their lies and smears if only they could just be the presidents again. Nobody could make this shit up..what will joe klein call his next book? "True Primary Colors Redux"?

[K Gardner]

22. Seriously ! If someone wrote this shit down and put it in a book, they'd call it fantasy and refuse

to publish it due to UNBELIEVABILITY. They are both certifiable.

[redqueen]

13. Seriously... wtf is up with her campaign?

:wtf:

Stunning incompetence... just unbelievable... and people WANT to put that team up against the GOP this fall? Really?

[Major Hogwash]

14. A downward spiral - like a freakin' tornado!!

Who blew them all away!!

"Auntie Em! Auntie Em!"

[jlake]

15. The Clinton campaign is absolutely right - as usual.

[JackORoses]

19. don't you mean 'ass usual'?

[onenote]

20. you are absolutely wrong -- as usual

Its nice actually to have something as steady and constant in our lives as your befuddlement.

Hillary wins Mississippi! Oops.
Hillary comes close in Mississippi! Oops.
Hillary comes within 20 in Mississippi! Oops.
Hillary comes within 30 in Mississippi...well, that one, finally, you got right. But only thanks to the repubs who voted for Hillary. If you consider only Democrats, Obama won in Mississippi by 37%. If you add in independents, Obamama still scored a 32% margin of victory.

So, jlake, here's to you. The predictor whose ass was saved (just a little) by the repubs in Mississippi. You send the repub party a contribution.

[dchill]

30. Yup! They're freakin' infallible!

:puke:

[jlake]

38. No, but if you dispute the fact that Obama's campaign is imploding

you have had a serious break with reality.

[dchill]

40. Yup. I'm a freakin' loon...

just like the majority of the Democratic Party. You, on the other hand, have proved your excellent sanityness with your countless inane posts. Yup. I'm breaking with reality - 'cause I think Barack can win without poaching elected delegates, without seating disqualified delegates, without redefining some delegates as "caucus delegates," without lying and smearing his opponent, without moving goalposts, without offering anyone a seat at the back of the bus, and without coming unhinged.

[jlake]

41. Obama has already accomplished half of your list. Hillary hasn't even attempted a single

one of those things. There are no tainted delegates - FL & MI need to be seated as-is IMMEDIATELY or the Democratic Party will fracture.

[dchill]

43. And YOU think I'M breaking with reality?

You can't even count, can you?

[tridim]

36. So "up" does equal "down" in your world?

Because otherwise you're talking out of your ass. (Which I guess would be your mouth in your reality)

[roguevalley]

42. only on this board could winning over and over and over again be

losing.

[dcindian]

21. popular vote only counts some voters.

If popular vote was the only type of primary races that we have then there maybe a point. Since many states do not use just a popular vote system or any one set of rules popular vote cannot be used as any yard stick.

There is only one measure that matters and that is delegates. Everything else is just fluff to blur what outcome really matters.


We have all types of primaries with all types of rules.

Caucasus
caucuses where only dems could show up and choose
caucuses where any one can show up and choose
primaries where dems and indies could vote
primaries where only dems could vote
primaries where anyone could vote
a mix of primary and caucus
Vote by mail


How in the heck can anyone take only a portion of that and declare a winner?

[MadBadger]

28. It doesnt matter how, but the Clinton's will declare themselves the winner if they get it.

[grantcart]

23. Of course after the primary is over the people have a chance to consider

the bs that they have been fed and it turns out Obama does better than Clinton than McCain\

[Strelnikov_]

24. I used to wonder if 'Baghdad Bob' ever got another job

Apparently, he has.



“If Barack Obama cannot reverse his downward spiral with a big win in Pennsylvania, . . "

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[grantcart]

25. now if you want to see downward spiral you have to go to a place where

the voters took a really good look at the candidates

Remember how they keep saying well we can't win Iowa. Well someone forgot to tell the people of Iowa


You can see that when Hillary endorses McCain's resume it has an effect Obama goes down and McCain goes up


Now here is a real downward spiral

[VolcanoJen]

31. Wow wow wow wow wow

Seriously, grant, my jaw just dropped.

That's amazing. Obama could flip Iowa... and the people of Iowa completely reject Clinton.

WOW.

Oh, and Wolfson/Penn must be smoking some hellacious weed out there in Arlington.

[City Lights]

26. Whatever she's paying her spinners, it's too much. They suck!

:rofl:

[rocktivity]

27. She hasn't won ANY large state by a large enough margin to pull even with Obama

never mind take the lead. From here on in, any voting percentage of less than 65% is a loss for her--WHOSE downward spiral?

:headbang:
rocknation

[grantcart]

32. Now here is a downward spiral in a state that loves Hillary

[grantcart]

33. New Jersey is always a little bit slower but they got their downward spiral started

[grantcart]

34. But if you want to see a real downward spiral you have to go national

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

35. In Hillary's Bizarro Ferraro world, winning is losing, up is down and, dare I say, black is white.

[DrFunkenstein]

37. About as Realistic as "It Wasn't a Vote to Go to War"

Secondly, Obama will be completely rewriting what constitutes a swing state in November. It's all about turnout, and we've got the enthusiasm on our side.

[thoughtcrime1984]

45. Hillary IS Baghdad Bob. nt