I'm predicting a republican win in November...

[sfam]

It seems pretty clear that what's left of the democratic brand name after this "contest" won't be worth much. It's fairly amazing how we can turn a sure thing into an abomination. Yes, I think we can all agree now that the democratic party primary rules are as hoaky and idiotic as a party can possibly devise. Yet even with this, I think we would have had to work overtime to destroy our advantage.

Lucky for us, that's exactly what's happening. By looking at the math, its near impossible to come up with a scenario where Obama (who has already won the majority of the states) doesn't lead in the overall pledged delegate votes, and almost as impossible to come up with a scenario where he doesn't win the popular vote. With this in mind, if Hillary is somehow able to convince the Supes to support her, Obama's supporters will rebel in the streets stating the election was stolen, making Hillary's nomination moot. Likewise, although Obama is most assuredly going to sail slowly to the nomination, the Clinton campaign is tarnishing him as a candidate, and more importantly, turning off her supporters from even considering Obama. His and the democratic party's overall negatives are going up. We now have a situation where many Hillary supporters feel the election is "owed" to Hillary, and that the only reason Obama is winning is because the country is filled with misogynist pigs who will even vote for an unexperienced minority hire over her. The independents are hearing that Obama is viewed as unqualified for Commander in Chief by a large segment of the democratic party. And we still have many more months of this crap to go.

In other words, we're pretty much fucked whoever comes out of the contest now. This means that the only way either of the candidates win is by sliming and smearing McCain into the mud. In the end, at best, all we'll be left with is a country more divided and pessimistic than we are today.

Considering Obama most like wins the primary after being bruised and battered, I don't see him sliming McCain to the degree he'll need to in order to capture the independents. If McCain then goes and picks a woman VP, the contest is over. Hence my prediction.

Better luck in 2012 I guess...

[Recursion]

1. 1992 was pretty rough, too

Maybe whatever doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

[andym]

4. 1992 had the benefit of 3rd party candidate who weakened the incumbant

1992 had the benefit of 3rd party candidate, Perot, who weakened the incumbent, to help make make the election easier after the late nomination war between Jerry Brown and Clinton.

[sfam]

7. Exactly. There would be NO Clinton victory without Perot. nt

[annie1]

94. exactly.

[Recursion]

14. Yes, I agree

But it was a rough primary and it didn't leave Clinton mortally wounded.

[Yes We Did]

61. McCain might actually be better for our party than Hillary.

I know people like to look back at the 90's with rose colored glasses, but we did lose the house & senate and presidency.

Hillary likes to take credit for the 90's. Well, how about the blame?

What makes any of you think the same thing wouldn't happen under her?

At least if we get stuck with McCain, we can blame him for everything, including the recession that is about to hit.

I mean, Bush is at 19% right now. Imagine what 4 more years of his policies would do to the repug party.


I'm just pissed and ranting now. Regardless, I will NOT vote for Hillary. If she steals this, I will simply write Obama in.

[Monty__]

75. I actually disagree

Clinton ran on the theme "change" and "Washington Outsider". So did Perot. I think Clinton still wins in a head to head with Bush, Sr.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. And by odd coincidence, a Clinton was in on that one, too.

I supported him then. That was long before I was awakened to what the DLC was.

[Not the Only One]

2. Over? Did you say "over"?

Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Seriously, November is a lifetime away. Relax!

[mathewsleep]

3. the bruised and beaten obama losing to mccain is

exactly what hillary wants. she can't wait 8 years to run again.

[sfam]

5. Well good luck in getting the party behind her in 2012 if that's the plan...

Seriously, I really don't see the party backing someone who costs them the election. It certainly hasn't happened in the past. The current leader of the party, Nancy Pelosi, sort of made this clear in her denunciation of the chance for a dream ticket.

[mathewsleep]

13. i hope she's not dumb enough to try to sabotage obama.

[sfam]

15. Welcome to two weeks ago...nt

[mathewsleep]

20. god, i know...

[azmouse]

6. Don't throw in the towel.

McCain isn't well liked by his own party and it's a long way til Nov.

[sfam]

11. McCain is loved by Independents though...

Again, I think we can beat McCain, but it will be by dredging up all the dirt we apparently have on the guy (and apparently its quite a lot). If we win this way, we really won't be changing anything in the grand scheme of things. More divided politics is in the cards if we go that route. And if so, Obama's shine truly dulls.

[Benhurst]

21. And once the mud-slinging gets started, there's no telling who will get hit.

And, gosh, KKKarl Rove might start turning over rocks in Chicago or New York, as the case may be.

[sfam]

25. What are they going to do? Say that we have a minority hire who isn't qualified to be CIC?

Too late - already done. But I do agree with you that they'll find something new and creative to spew out.

[Benhurst]

95. With an unvetted candidate, we can only hope whatever they come up with isn't true.

[davidinalameda]

24. I think he's lost the independents with his stance on the war

Obama wins on that point alone

[sfam]

28. I think his recent torture vote is actually far more damaging than that...

say what you want about McCain's warmongering, its at least honest and principled warmongering. That will sway some people. But his recent torture pivot is something altogether different. That WILL cost him with independents I think.

[karmicglee]

98. Pessimism is the worst companion

I am with you 100%.

[GoldieAZ49]

99. Those that don't like him: he isn't far enough right

They may not vote for him, but they damn sure will show up to vote against the Democrat

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

10. I doubt that.......

Folks don't like the war, and don't like the fact that this is where are money is going.

Obama is not battered, and in fact, he is getting stronger.

Watch and listen.

[sfam]

18. I hope your crystal ball is better than mine...I see the next six weeks as...

something we'd all prefer never happened in retrospect.

[FrenchieCat]

26. Well, maybe if someone who is losing sat down, we would win.....

could be done with a fork! :shrug:

See here! http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=103859&mesg_id=103859

[sfam]

43. I would be MORE than willing to accept a joint ticket if that's what it took

Hopefully Hillary will offer this and Obama will accept. While Hillary is far from the ideal candidate in that she turns off independents, she CLEARLY has made her point that she can significantly damage Obama. If that was her plan, its worked. We can always hope...

[Political Heretic]

12. I wonder if this is Hillary's plan. Beat him up, make him lose, then run in 2012.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. It's plain as the nose on your face. She's running for 2012 RIGHT NOW!

[sabbat hunter]

60. candidates who fail to win

the first time around rarely succeed later. A rare case is Ronald Reagan. He challenged Ford in 76, ran succesfully in 1980.

List of unsuccessful candidates
Adalai Stevenson
William Jennings Bryan
Jerry Brown
Henry Clay
John C Calhoun

[tabatha]

19. Do you remember the very testy debate

after New Hampshire when Clinton accused Obama of being frustrated because he had lost.

I think Hillary has been showing her frustration at losing, much like a little girl; stomping her foot and throwing the kitchen sink at him, but nothing worked.

Obama will be fine - he will win.

[sfam]

23. I'll quote Tom Brokaw and say that...

"Anyone who thinks the Democratic party is guaranteed a win in November is an" idiot (forgot the last word, but I think it was "idiot"). Basically, he sees that the Democratic party pretty much thinks its got the election won regardless and is acting like it. He clearly disagreed with this sentiment - so do I. We CAN lose this in November - it is VERY possible. In fact we appear to be doing everything possible to ensure a loss.

[Fredda Weinberg]

27. Finding excuses for your weak candidate already? n/t

[tabatha]

29. why is he winning?

when Clinton was supposed to have had it wrapped up by Feb 5?

[sfam]

30. Obama obviously didn't get the memo that she was owed the nomination, or possibly...

as an unqualified minority hire, perhaps he hasn't learned how to read yet.

[Fredda Weinberg]

41. Who said Clinton was supposed to do anything but campaign her heart out n/t

[sfam]

44. I have absolutely NO problem with Clinton campaigning her heart out...I do have a problem...

with the attacks coming out. The ones that pretty much make Obama damaged goods if and when he gets the nomination. THIS is the problem, not the fact that the election is still going on.

[Fredda Weinberg]

64. This is the part I don't get: what made you think your candidate would

emerge unscathed? Do you consider him entitled to special protection?

[sfam]

83. unscathed? Of course not. Damaged goods based on unfair attacks? That seems

a bit far I think. I certainly didn't think the message coming out was that Obama is an unqualified minority hire who doesn't measure up to McCain as Commander in Chief. This to me is altogether different.

[Benhurst]

57. Neither of them are winning. Whether it's Clinton or Obama, our

"leader" is going to have to be dragged over the finish line by unelected Super Delegates. Both have had more Democrats vote against them than for them.

[Political Heretic]

58. He is winning.

1) most pledged delegates
2) most popular vote
3) most states won
4) most money raised
5) widest margin against mccain

That's called wining. It's also why Hillary has no hope of superdelegates doing anything but supporting the guy who has, in effect, already won.

[Benhurst]

68. He's got a plurality. More Democrats have voted

against him than for him. Under the party rules, a plurality means squat.

You may not like the rules, but none of our candidates objected to them and agreed to run on them.

He hasn't won and that is why the struggle continues. In order to do so, he will have to be dragged over the finish line (2025) by unelected super delegates, just as would Clinton if she is chosen.

Unfortunately, we have a very divided party. And the process is so poor and the distribution of the delegates so questionable, Solomon would have a hard time sorting out this mess.

And despite all the silly claims being made, the super delegates are under no restrictions when it comes to making their choice. They would be well within their rights to decide the party is so divided that a compromise candidate would better our chances in November.

You may not like it, but those are the rules, rules both Clinton and Obama agreed to.

[sfam]

89. He hasn't won, but he CLEARLY is winning. Anything else is pure spin...

And just as clearly Hillary has virtually no chance of winning the pledged delegate count and only an absurdly small chance of winning the total vote count. So yeah, both candidates will need Supes to "drag" them over the finish line, but again, Obama is CLEARLY winning. This is an objective fact.

[Benhurst]

92. Neither has a chance of winning. He may be the biggest loser,

but he's still a loser under the rules and will have to be pushed over the finish line, having failed to make the sale to the majority of Democratic voters, as have all the other candidates. That is an objective fact.

[sfam]

103. You really are making no sense. Obama has more delegates right now...

Yes, Supes count - he has more delegates overall right now. He also has more pledged delegates. TO say he has no chance of winning implies that Supes aren't part of the process. This is false. Just as it is false to say that he's not currently winning, whether you count Supes who have already come out or just pledged delegates.

[Benhurst]

93. Not according to the rules of the primary. But , hey, it's the "new politics,"

Chicago style.

He may be able to ram his nomination through. Given the way, it's going, it may be a prize not worth taking, whichever of them gets it.

[sfam]

104. Hence the point of my post...

[Political Heretic]

47. Oh, her strategy will fail, make no mistake. Just like every other thing she has done this campaign

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5036307&mesg_id=5036307

[ieoeja]

53. "I know that McCain will enter the White House with a lifetime of experience. Obama has a speech."

That will be the most played soundbite of the general election. Will Democrats forgive her campaigning for McCain (via that video) throughout the 2008 general election?

I doubt it. If McCain wins, a lot of the credit for his victory will accrue to Hillary. No way in hell she is going to win the presidential nomination next time around.

[sfam]

55. It would be like Kennedy running in 1984...the party will be OVER her in 2012...

In retrospect, Hillary's time was probably 2004. She would have made a FAR better candidate than Kerry. Bringing down Obama for her run in 2012 if that's the strategy will backfire by this November. There's no way party faithfuls get behind her next time around.

[Benhurst]

70. Yeah, but she had only been in the Senate for three years, hardly

long enough to justify moving on to the presidency.

[Still-ill]

16. To be honest

..... i agree with your statements. 100%.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

77. LOL.

[aquarius dawning]

22. I think we're definitely overestimating our chances and underestimating John McCain's.

It could easily go either way.

[BlueManDude]

31. I've always feared McCain - that they almost chose someone else is amazing

McCain ain't Bob Dole. He'll win in November but if Obama is at the top of the ticket the Dems will still have a very good year in fed and state elections.

[sfam]

35. If only Romney was more likeable...

Then we really would have had a guaranteed win. :(

[BlueStater]

51. I don't see him as being a superior candidate to Dole at all

Dole was a war hero too. He was seriously injured in WWII.

And I certainly don't think McCain is anymore charismatic or inspirational than Dole.

[sfam]

52. 5 years getting tortured in a prison camp doesn't equate to inspiration?

I think he's at least on par with Dole there - in fact I think he well surpasses him. I do agree that neither were inspirational speakers, and that Dole certainly had a better sense of humour.

[NashVegas]

32. For the Record, I Do Not Believe Hillary Is "Owed" an Election

But the misogyny is dead on target.

We can't afford another 4 years of Republican rule butitellyawhat: the way I feel right now, if I don't see a serious makegood via the Democratic Party leaders who allowed this shit to go on, I don't see much reason to offer them my support.

[sfam]

37. Well again, the message that he's unqualified and is only there because of misogyny...

is pretty misguided. When this is said, it pretty much implies that Hillary is "owed" the election. Worse, the facts don't support this. Obama has more foreign policy experience than Carter, Reagan, Bill Clinton and "W" combined when they ran. So the unqualified thing truly is an unfair slam. Combined with the issue that the only reason people don't support Hillary is due to unsavory reasons, we really do see an incredibly unfair argument being put forward.

[Popol Vuh]

33. What? McCain win?

You mean the guy who said it was safe to walk around Baghdad? The guy who represents the party of Bush and the culture of corruption? The guy that a great deal of conservatives dislike? The guy who said we're staying in Iraq even if it takes a hundred years?

I think a whole lotta people, to include people who voted for Bush, have had it with the Repuke party. They want their country back. They want their jobs back. They want their troops back out of Iraq. They want their lives back to some resemblance of a healthy middle class. They want our name to be respected again throughout the world.

They do not want another four more years. Trust me.

[walldude]

34. I can't believe people actually think McCain has a prayer

the only way that idiot can win is if they cheat. Both Hillary and Obama could wipe the floor with his ass. He supported every stupid move Bush made and there's not enough time in the next 5 years to make enough commercials pointing out the flaws in McCain and his Republican buddies political positions.

[leftofcool]

38. That's what we said about Nixon too!

[Strelnikov_]

65. And Raygun n/t

[sfam]

40. This is exactly the attitude which is leading us to a McCain victory in November...

The belief that we can fuck things up as much as possible in the primaries 'cause it just doesn't matter is what will cause us to lose. McCain really CAN win - truly. Like, people CAN vote for the guy. The more we tear our party down, the greater that chance becomes.

[BlueManDude]

42. Democrats only win presidential elections when national security is not the issue

and this time it is. Think about it.

[Benhurst]

59. With Admiral Fallon's resignation, it looks as though we will be at

war with Iran soon.

[Carrieyazel]

73. No, he doesn't have to cheat. He's got to be the odds-on favorite right now

No, the way Hillary and Obama are wrecking each other right now, they won't have a prayer against McCain.

[Carrieyazel]

74. Self Delete

[Nay]

80. MCCAIN isn't who the idiots vote for. They vote for the REPUBLICAN.

In fact, at my workplace (which is infested with dumb pubs) they don't even talk about McCain, because they don't care who it is, as long as there's an R behind his name. Yeah, they may hate Bush, but Bush isn't running, so any other Pub is fine! Honest to God, that's the thinking.

[Vinca]

36. People, people, get a grip. The country is in the worst shape it's

been in since the Great Depression. The war is not ending. The Republicans have been in charge and are responsible for the catastrophe. John McCain loves the free trade agreements. That, by itself, should send him packing. People have pretty much had it with so-called "free trade." Factories close, people lose jobs and the only ones making out are the fat cats at the top. This will not play well for McCain. Add to that the far right conservatives who won't vote for him under any circumstances. What we have to do is somehow unify the mess that is our primary season. If we don't, we might lose just because we sat on our fat asses at home and pouted. Imagine President John McCain starting a war with Iran and your kid in the box with the flag on the top.

[BlueManDude]

39. Listen man - it's ALL about terrorism and national security

all these other issues - health care, mortages, cost of education, jobs etc don't mean squat wgen people vote for a president.

They will vote for the person they think will protect them and that will be McCain.

[goldcanyonaz]

46. Every time I even mention the importance of national security on this forum...

I am blasted.

National security is very important to me, and until we Dems get serious about it we will continue to lose.

[sfam]

49. Absolutely agree that National Security is important. That's why its so damaging when we state...

that our leading candidate is unqualified to be Commander in Chief. Never mind that he has more foreign policy experience than Carter, Reagan, B. Clinton and G.W. Bush combined had when they ran for president...

So while this really is unsupported by the facts, we can already see the ad, "Even Obama's own party says McCain is qualified for CIC, while Obama isn't. Do you really want to take a risk with your child's welfare?"

[Benhurst]

62. And we'll have a candidate who looks more comfortable

posing for GQ than leading a nation into war.

[BlueManDude]

54. The Democrats have won 3 presidential elections in my lifetime

1976 when, although the Cold war was still raging the election was largely about Watergate, the pardon, and GOP corruption. Even then Carter BARELY won.

1992 when, after the fall of then Soviet Union we were considered to be at "peace" really for the first time since before WWII. That election was about domestic issues - as was Clinton's re-election.

McCain will win in 2008 and the current mess between Bo and HRC will ultimately have very little to do with it. The GOP is simply seen as better able to "protect" people than the Dems are. Neither HRC nor BO can change that.

In addition - this election will NOT be a referendum on the Bush presidency or the clusterfuck in Iraq. If that were the case McCain would be at 30% in the polls and either Dem would win handily. The election is about who will be better able to "protect" us starting 1/20/2009. Dems make a mistake if they think that Bush will sink McCain. He won't.

[sfam]

56. I agree this will certainly be a big issue, especially if there is another incident...but...

I don't agree that we were a dead loss coming into the contest. The question I see is whether our internal dogfight ends up damaging us to the point that we can't win. I think the economy, civil rights and world respect also play a huge role in the election. I think our chances would have been great had someone wrapped this up a while ago. The longer it goes on and the nastier it gets, our chances continue to drop.

If the race is still going then, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this as a shared opinion by the end of April.

[GoldieAZ49]

107. Excellent post - thank you for posting it!

What BO and HRC are doing is destroying each other politically, Dems will be divided on whose fault it was and neither will be able to win over the other camp for a future election

[sfam]

45. The NY Giants don't have a chance to win the Super Bowl either...

Seriously, to think that we are "owed" the presidency based on the sorry state of our country is as silly as thinking that Hillary is "owed" the nomination. We really can lose this one, folks. I do agree we have to work REALLY hard to lose it. But so far, we appear to be on track.

[GalleryGod]

48. Yeah, I'd want YOU next to me in a fire fight....

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. ...

:applause:

[zulchzulu]

63. McCain can easily be defeated if you run a campaign like Obama does

The messages will be simple.

War or no war.

Spend trillions on war or spend on America.

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice.

More Bush policies or time for a change.

McCain will lose by a wider margin than Goldwater in 1964. The RNC knows it. I know someone who goes to RNC batcave meetings and they are already saying that 2008 is lost. They will want to reconfigure and come back in 2010.

Watch and learn. McCain Is going to get his arse kicked.

[Texas Hill Country]

69. except for his inability to fend off even the lightest of attacks...

[sfam]

84. On the contrary - Obama has fended off TONS of attacks, that's why...

Hillary has now resorted to calling him a minority hire who's unqualified to be commander in chief. The run of the mill nastiness just wasn't sticking so they had to elevate things to an absurd level.

[zulchzulu]

100. Perhaps you don't know who is in the lead right now?

I guess his "inability to fend off even the lightest of attacks" has only won him 30 states, a delegate lead that Hillary Clinton cannot mathematically penetrate and the majority of the popular vote so far. That and absolute record-breaking fundraising that gives me even more advantage.

Yeah, he's only kicking Hillary's ass. He has handled Hillary's many tasteless and lowbrow mudslinging just fine.

[Texas Hill Country]

67. While I agree that we will loose in Nov...

1. Hillary is not "trashing" him. That sentiment is overblown and ridiculous. Is she being a bit tough? sure, but she is definitely not "trashing" him. And anything she is saying, not only are the republicans gonna say, but 10000 times stronger.

2. Could be that the Supers think that Hillary is a better candidate with a stronger chance of beating McCain.

3. If Obama becomes the nominee, this whole process would actually be to his benefit. If you dont think so, you are ignoring reality... the total FUBAR he had in responding to Hillary the weekend before texas and ohio was ridiculous... and what she was talking about is about 1/10th of what the republicans are gonna throw at him. If he was unprepared for a knuckle rap from Hillary, then he is gonna totally eat it when the republicans start throwing punch/kick combos.

4. I am a Hillary supporter, but I do not think she is "owed" the election. I genuinely think she is the stronger candidate.

5. I object to you and the other Obama supporters accusing her of trying to "steal" the election by using superdelegates... talk about a double standard... sure, you can deny two states their votes because those are the rules they agree to and it favors obama not to have those two states vote, but when super delegates vote their concience, which they can according to the RULES EVERYONE AGREED TO, you bitch and moan and scream about her stealing the election... so which is it?

6. I will always vote for the democrat because of certain central party platforms i hold high, unless there is a republican that meets those couple of things (which will never happen because it runs contrary to their central themes) but i have always seen hillary as the stronger candidate.

7. Politics is a dirty, messy and mud filled business. the sooner we come to terms with that, the better of we are.

[sfam]

85. Nancy Pelosi would disagree with you, as would many others. Stating that...

Obama is not qualified to be Commander in Chief but McCain is - you don't consider this trashing him? What exactly WOULD be considered trashing then?

[AX10]

102. Number's 1, 5, and 7 need to be paid attention to.

The left wing has been pushing this HRC trashing Obama shit from day one.
It's a blatent lie.
The Obamites are going to learn first hand what "trashing" if they are in the fall election.

Because of 5, number 2 has merit.

[Carrieyazel]

71. These ugly campaigns from both BO and Hillar will pave the way for McLame.

We are screwed at the presidential level. McCain is so close now, that his group his dancing jigs right now. They can't believe their luck.

It's basically over. But the good news is this doesn't have to cost us at the Congressinal, state and local level.

GO DCCC, DGA and local Dem groups, show foolish Barack and Hillary what it means to run winning general election campaigns this fall.

[Perry Logan]

72. I'm totally certain we'll win. This mean I'll be a happier person than you until November.

And even if we lose, I'll probably be no unhappier than you were the whole time.

[sfam]

86. Great point, and great perspective! nt

[Nay]

76. I agree it's lookin' pretty iffy for the Dems. I have to say that I expected

there to be some spirited debates and wrangling, but with what's at stake for the country, I did NOT expect Dems to totally trash each other like coke whores standing on the corner.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

78. I'll just bet you are.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

81. Heh. I predict an influx of trolls from now to November....

[Beacool]

79. The only solution I see is the solution most here reject:

a unity ticket. Either they both win the prize or neither one of them does.......

The party is way too polarized to throw one or the other under the bus and expect to win in November.

United we stand, divided we fall!!!!!

:dem:

[Levgreee]

82. Why would Hillary be on a ticket with someone who hasn't "met the commander in chief threshold"?

[sfam]

88. 'Cause she doesn't really believe it. She's just trying to win...

And while she can't really win now, she can bring Obama down. Hence my support for a unity ticket.

[sfam]

87. Absolutely agree. I would be TOTALLY for a unity ticket...RIGHT NOW...

Not in 2 months after the trashing is complete. I agree that even though both sides aren't thrilled with the other candidate, a Unity ticket RIGHT NOW is a terrific idea. The only way this happens though is if Hillary offers and Obama accepts. I really hope both do so for the good of the party.

[Benhurst]

96. I fear we may have already passed the failsafe point.

And both camps are digging in. I don't see either backing off, and according to the agreed upon rules, there really is no reason for either of them to do so. And whichever wins, will probably inherit a crippled party, heading into an election many here are underestimating in terms of its difficulty.

[applegrove]

90. Don't talk that way. There is a surge amongst Democrats, Independants and

former Repukes voting in the primaries. Chin Up!

[applegrove]

91. Don't talk that way. There is a surge amongst Democrats, Independants and

former Repukes voting in the primaries. Chin Up!

[Penndems]

97. At this particular juncture, I have a tendency to agree with you, sfam

Our party is a house divided by racism and sexism. Leave it to us Democrats to shoot ourselves in the foot! :eyes:

I've waited eight years to vote for a Democratic President, and neither one of them is appealing.

McCain has the GOP nomination locked up. There's no other contender he's sparring with, so he has plenty of time to travel around the country making his case.

But it's only March, and a lot can happen right up through the Convention, and until November.

We'll just have to wait and see.









(edited for typo)

[DuaneBidoux]

101. The typical failing of the progressive wusses: giving up before the battle.

[sfam]

105. I really don't get how a prediction implies giving up...

I'm not saying anything half the commentators aren't saying at this point. If we continue the insane infighting, our chances of winning are reduced. Furthermore, it appears as if the nastiness is ramping up by the day. Is this really that shocking a statement? How does this in any way translate to actions taken toward losing? If anything, this seems to help us in winning by speaking out that this divisiveness is bad.

[workinclasszero]

106. 2012?

What makes you think Hillary won't be right there again throwing mud on Obama, part 2?

The dem party had everything going its way this year and then committed suicide.

I can't believe it. We had a young charismatic leader bringing thousands of enthusiastic fired up supporters to make the dem party the majority for a generation perhaps.

But no. Hillary is more important than all that and by God if she cant have the presidency this year then NO dem can have it and the party can go to hell!

She will tear it in half with the race card and Rovian fear tactics and hand it all over to Mccain.

That seems to be Hillary's agenda to me.

I guess we are fuckin doomed to 4 more years of rethuglican economic depression and war.

God help us all.

[GoldieAZ49]

108. Dems are already dropping away

It looks like this is going all the way to the convention ... that being August this is going to be the most uncontested General Election in history by being the most contested primary.

And contested ugly, it is personal, it is sexist and racist and just the prospects of the next 6 weeks is enough to turn the stomach at this rate, let alone 4 months of it. It is becoming a spectator sport for middle America while they wait for the new episodes of the favorite TV show to come back on.

McCain is out raising much needed money, meeting with key players and holding town hall meetings. He is quietly going about the business of running for POTUS getting his political machine together while the dems become more divided each day. Our candidate will emerge as pulp fiction at the end, bloody pulp at that, with hard feelings and a divided and alienated base and neither the time nor the words to heal it for the GE.

My sister is in her early 50's, she has never voted republican in her life, she was so excited about Obama and voted for him Super Tuesday. I talked to her yesterday to see if she wanted an Obama yard sign and she told me she was voting for McCain! I asked what changed her mind and she said there were several things, but mostly thinking about the 3am phone call question (she never saw Hillary's commercial, she heard McCain talking about it)...she wants McCain to answer that call. Other smaller things were the 8 question limit of Obamas and Michelle's never been proud comments.

Also the McCain life story on MSNBC, his rolling through the fire out of his plane on the flight deck after his plane exploded, then helping others to survive really impressed her.


What a tragic waste we have made of this primary.