Sometimes this seems like the Democratic Underminers Underground

[MoonRiver]

It's becoming really depressing to even view the topics on GD2004. I could listen to Rush and probably not be so disheartened. This is supposed to be the place where we build up and pump energy into our party, but instead I see one thread after another tearing it and our presidential candidate down. Sad.

[sandnsea]

1. Democratic Underminers

bwahahahhaa That's a good one. Wish I'd thought of it. And, sadly, too true.

Everybody whining about how the election was stolen from Gore on a site put up because the election was stolen from Gore, now doing everything they can to put Bush back into office. Makes no sense to me at all.

[MoonRiver]

2. No sense, none.

Unless we've been seriously infiltrated.

[blm]

3. We have.

.

[Guaranteed]

5. Yeah, yeah, the commies. We know. nt

[Prodemsouth]

7. No, the Repugs who are posting like they are "commies."

like say oh...

[sangh0]

9. They complain about Imperialism

but only when it's Kerry's. Threads about imperialism in general (that is, not Kerry-specific) never see those posters contributing in spite of their obvious concern with the dangers of imperialism

[Guaranteed]

10. Like who?

Come on, buddy...say it!

[MAlibdem]

17. No, freepers...

Using a "Disheartened Dean Supporter" tactic to blast Kerry...sure is fun to read tho.

[Larkspur]

13. Not interested in putting Bush back into office.

I don't want either Bush or Kerry in the White House. Let's leave it vacant and let Richard Clarke and Helen Thomas run it for 4 years. They couldn't do any worse than Bush or Kerry.

[mouse7]

38. Not an option.

You have two options: Kerry and Bush. Not supporting Kerry means you support Bush.

[Citizen Kang]

51. and people wonder

and people wonder why only 50% of Americans vote.

[Warpy]

4. Well on one hand, Kerry does present some problems

...and this is the forum on which to discuss them and pose suggestions for how to change his priorities and deal with the image problems. You can bet your bottom dollar that somebody on his staff is reading this stuff.

On the other hand, it does get depressing, reading post after post from people whose candidate didn't make it who are pissing and moaning because Kerry didn't adopt every word their guy said as his own. I was a Dean fiend, but I've moved on, and so should they. We need to keep our eyes on the prize, which is ridding ourselves of Bush and his gang of thieves, incompetents, crackpot geopolitical theorists and Elmer Gantrys.

Then there are the Naderites. Since they've rejected the Democratic Party, underground or not, one wonders why they bother spewing on this particular forum, and even more why it's tolerated.

[MoonRiver]

6. I don't think it's just, or even primarily, other candidates' supporters.

I smell a sewer full of rats. Sorry, but the level and degree of anti-Kerry posts here is just too bizarre. One would think the rage against * is secondary to disgust about Kerry on DU. Something systemic needs to be done about this.

[sangh0]

8. That can't be true

I have it on good authority (DU's admins) that the idea of infiltration is just a rumor Freepers started to get us worried and disrupt us.

Good thing it didn't work, huh people?

[MoonRiver]

11. But did God whisper in your ear?

It's the * test of ultimate authority.

[sandnsea]

12. I think it's both

Or all 3. Angry supporters of other candidates, Nader types who were never for ANY Democratic candidate, and a whole lot of infiltrators. And infiltrators are tough to spot because some of them act like supporters, they just constantly plant seeds of doubt. They're the worst actually, I'd rather just have an up and up Kerry basher. But they're here, no doubt about it.

[Ignoramus]

14. democratic/democratic

Eh, this is democratic underground in the "democracy" sense, not the party sense, right?

The point is to strive for democracy, yes? Not juse have someone/anyone from your gang seize power.

I pay money to this site because overall I think it is positive in working for democracy and against those who are in favor of a system based on one group of people parasitizing another group of people.

I'm unemployed and have been too worried about other things to pay much attention to politics. But, here are the things I catch glimpses of:

Kerry supports Israeli assassinations... groan...
Kerry wants to "win" in Iraq... groan...
Kerry wants to send more troops... groan...
Kerry says we must remove the American face from the occupation... yay!
Kerry supports the right-wing couptists in Venezuela... groan...
Kerry criticizes Dean for advocating due-process wrt Bin Laden... groan...
Kerry publicly characterizes his vietnam anti-war stance as naive... groan...

Together with that, you had to be either ill-intentioned, a whore, or a moron to have bought into Bush's war scam, as Kerry did.

If all these are in context and representative, then I could sum up Kerry's policies as racist, anti-democratic, imperial terrorism...

So, I am horribly depressed...

In anycase, I will almost certainly vote for Kerry because I prefer a nice firm stool to a bowl of diarrhea for my last meal... heh.

I'm guessing other people might have a similar sentiment, and I think you should view it as healthy that people criticize rather than just having lock-step unity.

If democrats/liberals can be characterized as basing their politics based on what they think will be palatable, rather than based on their ideals, then without criticizm, the liberal candidate will float surely as a fluff ball onto the back of Bush and stick there.

[MAlibdem]

Nope, Democratic BIG D

And other leftists...but generally I think the guidelines are in GD Election 2004, it's Kerry Country...

[MAlibdem]

18. Dupey

[WilliamPitt]

21. OK

Kerry supports Israeli assassinations... groan...

So do a great many people, and so do I, frankly. If Israel can zap some asshole who convinces teenagers that it is God's will for them to explode themselves with a nail bomb on a bus full of innocent civilians, I say go for it.

Kerry wants to "win" in Iraq... groan...

Naiive. Bush has thrown us into this goddam mixmaster, and unfortunately, an immediate withdrawal will create Afghanistan circa 1989. Bush's "win" in Iraq is total domination and an oil baronship. Kerry's "win" in Iraq is an international force to take the heat off US troops while Bush's mess is cleaned up. No other third option is viable.

Kerry wants to send more troops... groan...

Are you sure? I've seen this rumor batted down dozens of times.

Kerry says we must remove the American face from the occupation... yay!

...and that's what he means by "winning." See above.

Kerry supports the right-wing couptists in Venezuela... groan...

Again, are you sure? Not being a fan of Venezuela's leader doesn't mean he supports right-wing coupists.

Kerry criticizes Dean for advocating due-process wrt Bin Laden... groan...

Gasp! Dean said due process, and then said kill the bastard, and Kerry asked him to make up his mind. The bastard.

Kerry publicly characterizes his vietnam anti-war stance as naive... groan...

He qualified some of the more incendiary language.

This desc`ription-by-crayon of Kerry's positions you've put up tells me Kerry will never, ever satisfy you no matter what he does. See post #1 above.

[Ignoramus]

24. grgg

Well, mine is indeed a description by crayon. Like I said I'm not paying much attention right now because of other matters. So, I'll put your comments on the stack of things I'm going to look into, except for the first one.

You say you are in favor of assassinations. I can't believe it. It's not okay to just kill whoever you think is your enemy without a legal process because, there are the consequnences to consider... You must know that, so I think you are confused. Aside from that this represents the classic cycle of violence idea, which I'm sure you are familiar with also... what gives?

If people are blown apart by a nail bomb or a cluster bomb or a missle, it's all the same to me. It's terrorism. Death by guerilla violence is the same as death by state violence. Reactionary violence is predictable on all sides. The same dumbshits waving flags exist everywhere and attacks only "strengthen their resolve"... because their colors do not run and blabbity blabbity blah.

A terrorist attack by the Isreali military will inevitably result in a terrorist attack by palestinian para-militaries and then the counter-attack and then the counter-counter-attack and so on and so on.

A military exists to defend a country. It is not a police force. A police force exists to enforce laws. A countries laws do not apply to another country, except by treaty. Laws are agreed to by people, as an approximation of democracy. The only justifiable uses of force are defense and law-enforcement.

Terrorismm, the policy/ideology, can not be shot or arrested. Terrorists can be arrested. A state can be made to obery laws. So, I suggest that state-terrorism be made illegal, and that terrorists (state/non-state) be arrested. That's it. A suicide bombing is a criminal act. Arrest the criminals. It won't be a quick fix. The quick fix is terrorism, which doesn't work and in fact creates more terrorism.

[WilliamPitt]

29. In a war against people who have no set army, but attack civilians

as a matter of basic tactics, that war will often be fought and won not with a set army, but with a busboy who has a silenced pistol under his apron. That's the deal.

[Classical_Liberal]

33. Do you support Kerry's pro-settlements position?

? Unconditional endorsement of the settlements. That is what he gave on MTP yesterday.

42. George Bush convinces teenagers about God's will also.

If Israel can zap some asshole who convinces teenagers that it is God's will for them to explode themselves with a nail bomb on a bus full of innocent civilians, I say go for it.


Think about what you're saying here.

If I said what I think it really shows about the thinker, I'd undoubtedly get a warning.

[GalleryGod]

31. Really? I'm sure they'll listen To "Warpy" ?

:spank: I Got Your Discussion right here!:spank:

[Zorra]

15. Disheartened? It only means the freeps are getting desperate

when they come here to post.

Bu$h has already destroyed the republicans chances in November and they know it.

[corporatewhore]

16. Somethimes it seems likeapartheid and colonialism apologist underground

[tinanator]

19. you left out nuclear attack and militarism apologist underground

those almost seem worse, somehow?

[MAlibdem]

20. Or Reactionary Leftist Underground

[tinanator]

22. uh isnt that a perfect oxymoron?

synonym- ultra-conservative
antonym- radical

I think it would behoove us to speak the same language, properly.

[MAlibdem]

39. Reaction isn't necessarily conservative

it's just reaction. there is no initiative, only an emotional knee jerk to something. that's pretty much how I see some leftists caught up with PC and palestinian propaganda.

[Jim Sagle]

34. Or Palestine Underground

[tinanator]

37. Who holds the world's record shouting "Jew haters!" through a megaphone?

Why a freeper does, as a matter of fact. He was wrong too.

[Jim Sagle]

49. Is that in the new Guinness book of world records?

:beer:

[Forkboy]

23. I'd rather we were critical

than blindly supportive.If I wanted to let others do my thinking for me I'd be a Freeper.

[ulysses]

25. that's because you prefer Bush.

;-)

[MoonRiver]

26. B-I-N-G-O; B-I-N-G-O; B-I-N-G-O;

and Bingo was his name-O!

[ulysses]

28. sarcasm really is lost on some people, isn't it?

:eyes:

[Guaranteed]

32. ROFLMAO

!!!

[sangh0]

36. And silly arguments really works on some people

Like how one calls "blindly criticizing" "criticizing", while calling support "blind support"

I guess some people think that only support can be blind, while criticism is always approrpiate

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

41. Wasn't lost. Just returned in kind.

:D

[ulysses]

43. then perhaps you don't understand what sarcasm is.

:shrug:

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

46. perhaps.

But I doubt it.

[Forkboy]

47. heh

curses!

Love the other responses from others :freak: :)

[ulysses]

27. oh lord

DU's a big place - you can pretty much get out of it what you want, if you're willing to make the effort.

[Nazgul35]

30. as if...

the vast amjority of the American electorate reads or even gives a rat's ass about what goes on at Democratic Underground!!

Some here seem to think that the threads started here go directly on the network news stations at the top of the broadcast...

A little perspective, and knowledge that THIS IS THE FRIGGIN INTERNET AND WE HAVE NO IDEA WHO OR WHY PEOPLE POST WHAT THEY POST...

OK?

:shrug:

[dryan]

35. Ditto!!!

I happen to enjoy reading DU even though I don't agree with everything that is on it. I realized a long time ago that I don't know everything about politics or anything else. I supported Wesley Clark because I felt he was a good candidate--he didn't get the nomination. Now I am doing whatever I can in my limited free time--to get John Kerry elected. I have been at this a long time and I think that this past primary season was the most exciting ever. All the candidates brought people into the process that had never been involved before. That's a good thing! The unfortunate thing is that many of these same people don't understand the first rule of politics: someone wins and someone looses. You can stand back and pout or you can stay in the game to fight another day.

[mitchum]

45. Between the bitter, the naive, the ignorant, and the freeps...

what do you expect? :)

[Forkboy]

48. Posts like that one?

[Hippo_Tron]

50. I don't think you understand how SMALL DU really is...

Compared to the total population of the US or even the democratic party. Americans ARE behind Kerry and those who are so far to the left that they won't vote for him are a very small minority.