Why didn't John Kerry have to denounce and reject the Pope?

[TheZug]

JPII did some good things, maybe, but many of us here would strenuously disagree with his views on women, birth control, and choice. And let's not forget the molestation scandal--at the very least, he mostly turned a blind eye toward it.

Why didn't John Kerry have to renounce and reject John Paul II?

[ingac70]

1. Only black people have to denounce their religious leaders. n/t

[angie_love]

11. Word

[JI7]

2. because the Pope and Catholic Church already denounced and rejected him

[TheZug]

4. But he still proclaimed himself a Catholic. Shouldn't he have had to denounce JPII?

[Fresh_Start]

3. did the Pope damn the USA?

I don't remember him saying that

[TheZug]

7. do you agree with his views on women, birth control, and choice?

[TheZug]

9. did you agree with his rather passive approach to the molestation scandal?

[BeatleBoot]

14. Did the Pope Damn the USA while living here in the USA?

That's the question that will be asked in the Fall of Mr. Wright.

Given Obama even wins the caucuses.

[KAZ]

31. Sounds like something a Puke would say.

[BeatleBoot]

39. You would be correct. I am giving you a snapshot of what will be.

If Obama wins the caucuses.

It's not what I think or believe, just what will be shoved down our throats come the October 20th timeframe.


I am a Democrat and a realist.

[TheZug]

42. We must become like the enemy in order to defeat him.

[BeatleBoot]

50. No, Never that. But we must Learn How to Win.

And ties to Louis Farrakhan is NOT a good start.

[KAZ]

55. Thank God we have you to tell us how the Real World will be.

You may be a Democrat, but you're full of yourself.

OK, got my rant out. We know this already. Regardless of our sides, we're going to get hit with the egregious BS from the other side. Granted. I just feel Obama can withstand it better. Mostly because the chattering class does not know how to deal with him.

[KAZ]

26. Didn't answer the question, did ya?

[jeffrey_X]

68. did the pope ever have to sit at a different lunch counter?

eom

[MADem]

5. It wasn't the POPE going after him with all that excommunication talk.

By the time that shit started up, Kerry was fucked. He was already being swiftboated from three sides, that was just an irritation from the fourth side.

[TheZug]

10. Not the point. Shouldn't Kerry have denounced him for his conservative views?

[BeatleBoot]

34. My answer: No.

Because Kerry would have lost more votes than gained them in the demographics he faced in 2004.

If Obama denounces Wright, Farrakhan et al, he may gain some votes. (though I think he can't recover from this)

The candidate with the most votes wins, generally.

[JVS]

51. A very principled view you have there.

:sarcasm:

[BeatleBoot]

54. Understood.

But it gets us Universal Health Care.

[JVS]

60. It won't happen yet.

It won't be expedient.

[BeatleBoot]

67. It will be a lot quicker with a Democrat in the White House.

[JVS]

69. Only Nixon could get away with going to China. For others it wouldn't have been expedient.

Hillary is going to sell us out again.

[BeatleBoot]

74. Louis Farrakhan sends his best!

To Obama and crew.

[defendandprotect]

52. Now that you've raised this question --- I think it's a great question . . .

and why hasn't it been asked before this --- ???

Right -- why shouldn't Kerry --- if he wants to talk about his religion as so many politicians
tend to do these days --- challenge Popedom, challenge the church's ancient war on women,
challenge its continuing war on homosexuals ---

Challenge it's "Manifest Destiny" and it's "Man's Dominion Over Nature" as merely blind and selfish
licenses for the rich/elites --- ???

Why not challenge the past history of the Church --- its involvement in native American genocide and the enslavement of Africans in America --- ???


But most especially challenge the Vatican on moving re Global Warming ---
overpopulation ---

overpopulation ---

OVERPOPULATION ----

i.e., birth control and abortion ---

[TheZug]

58. I guess the answer is that the Pope wasn't black and it would have been politically inconvenient.

[defendandprotect]

64. Yeah --- I don't think it would get the attention it deserves on MSM . .

[BeatleBoot]

62. He very well could have done all that...

And unfortunately, he most likely would have lost by wider margins.

I feel your frustration. I would have pulled that lever with more gusto if he had done all that.

But, I just want to win. My family can't afford it anymore.

Does it suck to want to win?

[TheZug]

65. Depends on what it costs you. I can appreciate that integrity doesn't feed the kids.

[BeatleBoot]

71. Read up on Louis Farrakhan and Jeremiah Wright.

Then come back and we'll talk about integrity and racism.

No Integrity Lost Voting for HRC.

[defendandprotect]

I hate to say this to you, but I don't think "winning" has anything to do with

what's going on ---

I think the "win" is in the computers ---

Will you be surprised if the GOP "wins" in 2008 --- and will you believe it's an honest win???


IMO, we've had stolen elections since the mid-1960's which is when the computers first started to
come in --

Here's an interesting website on that ---
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

Jim & Ken Collier were journalists in Florida and were looking for a story on the elections and decided that one of them should run for office --- and they did.
Election night as they watched the returns, their figure increased dramatically -- and then
there was a computer problem and when the results came back on, their figure was back down.

This caused them to begin to investigate ---
Eventually, they had a great deal of evidence to prove stolen elections by computer and
they signed a book deal with a prominent publisher -- but by the time the book reached
the bookstores it was suppressed. This was early 1970's, I believe.

The family keeps the website going in order to get this story out to the public ---
you can read or scan the book there ---

But understand --- and please let everyone else know --- that the steals didn't begin in 2000...
they began long, long ago ---

[havocmom]

6. white boys?

great song from Hair! too ;)

[Ravy]

8. Was the Pope on one of his campaign committees? nt

[rug]

12. What is John Kerry running for?

[TheZug]

13. WHEN he was running.

[NastyRiffraff]

15. Was the Pope his spiritual advisor and mentor?

Did the Pope suggest a title for his book?

Nobody has said Obama should renounce the church itself...only one man.

[TheZug]

17. Well, he was the frikking Pope.

[JoFerret]

16. Because the pope rejected him first

.

[TheZug]

20. That makes no sense. Kerry still considers himself Catholic.

Why would he be relieved of the burden of renouncing the views of the spiritual leader of his church just because the spiritual leader renounced him?

[NMMNG]

18. You're really reaching now

Will you be asking Hillary to denounce God? I've read he smote a lot of people way back when.

[TheZug]

25. Why is it reaching? Isn't the argument that a politician must reject . . .

a spiritual leader of the church if he or she says things with which they strongly disagree?

[NMMNG]

53. Let's see

Say that Hillary went to a church that preached some form of hateful rhetoric toward blacks. Would people not be screaming for her to denounce the pastor, if not leave that church completely?

Obama has been going to that church for 20 years, got married by Wright, had Wright baptize his children, named a book after one of the man's sermons and considers him a close spiritual adviser. Wright is on an advisory committee for Obama's campaign. They are obviously very closely associated so it's no surprise people are thinking that Obama would be influenced by, if not share, some of Wright's views.

Frankly if I still went to church the second I heard the pastor preaching any form of hate from the pulpit I'd get up and leave, but then I have a low tolerance for hate-speech so that's just me. Other people seem to thrive on that sort of thing--in fact without an enemy to hate and the hate-speech to go along with it they have no real sense of identity.

[TheZug]

72. Weak. Why would a party that supposedly champions women's rights . . .

. . . not demand that its candidates reject the views of the head of the Roman Catholic Church?

[defendandprotect]

73. BTW, is the ERA still in the Democratic Platform . . . ???

[NMMNG]

77. You're making two different demands

On the one hand you're demanding that Kerry denounce the Pope himself, and on the other you're demanding he only reject a particular viewpoint.

First of all, the Pope is incredibly far removed from the candidate in comparison to the pastor of the church he attends (particularly when the candidate has had close association with that pastor and gone to the church for 20 years). Second denouncing one or even a few viewpoints is very different from denouncing and removing oneself from the person who espouses those viewpoints.


It would be more equivalent to demand Kerry denounce his parish priest had the priest engaged in inflammatory rhetoric or some other such behavior.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. The Pope isn't Kerry's parish priest

you really think there's a valid comparison there?

[TheZug]

22. Yeah, but he was the POPE. And who was Kerry's priest? Do you even know his views?

[MonkeyFunk]

36. If it comforts you to

make these lame arguments, go ahead. But it's not going to stop the media from paying some attention to Wright.

[TheZug]

38. That's the best you can do?

[Forkboy]

21. Pope this...Pope that...who cares about the old octogenarian fuck anyways?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. And The "I'm Gonna Go For A Really Smart Analogy But Fail Miserably" Threads Get Worse And Worse...

Whoa. What a sad one this one is...

[TheZug]

29. how about presenting a valid argument instead of drive-by trolling

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. I Did.

The valid argument is that your comparison to the current situation is more flawed of an analogy than any I've seen this primary season yet.

Do I need to prove that? Nope. Why? Cause everyone else already knows it. If someone asked me to prove that 2+2 does in fact = 4 , I wouldn't much feel the need to waste my time doing that either. :hi:

[TheZug]

49. Typical ploy of those who can't muster a decent argument to say they needn't bother.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. Ohhhhhhhhh, I'd Say My Argument Stands As Is Justttttt Fine There Pal LOL.

Hey, but you just go on thinking ya got this "I'm so perceptive and creative! How was no one else able to put this analogy together yet! This is just SUCH a viable argument!" type thread goin ok? Whatever gets ya through your day! :hi:

[Neshanic]

43. That is so true. Pope on balcony yelling about Hillary.

[blogslut]

24. good point

n/t

[closeupready]

27. I love how HIllary's supporters dance around not answering this question.

:popcorn:

[Thurston Howell III]

28. Because JFK broke through that barrier.

So now people don't question it as much. BTW, do you remember Mitt Romney and the LDS issues? I hope you do. They were coming down pretty hard on him.

[TheZug]

32. but shouldn't they question it?

[Thurston Howell III]

33. It's about breaking barriers! Once the barrier is broken people do not question it as much.

Again, they were questioning Romney.

[TheZug]

37. I understand. But isn't it fair to demand the same thing of everyone?

[Thurston Howell III]

40. Well it seems that they are! It still comes down to the barriers breaking.

If Obama gets elected then people will not question his parish.

[dailykoff]

30. The Pope wasn't part of Kerry's campaign

and definitely was'nt a Democrat.

[KAZ]

35. K and fuckin R Zug.

[Honeycombe8]

41. You've got to be kidding. You're comparing the Pope to that wacko that's on YouTube? nt

[TheZug]

45. If he vehemently disagreed, why didn't we demand he renounce?

[jillan]

44. He didn't even denounce and reject the swiftboat liars.

[TheZug]

47. Now that's the best point I've seen in this thread.

[jmg257]

48. I missed this - was the Pope a Kerry advisor??

[verelsol]

56. the Pope did not justify things such as 9-11

Big difference.

[TheZug]

66. What were his views on women again? And how many children were molested by priests?

[BlackVelvet04]

57. The pope wasn't his personal

mentor for 20 years.

[TheZug]

61. No, he's just the Vicar of Christ.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

59. was the Pope on Kerry's campaign team?

[TheZug]

63. No, but he was exponentially more influential.

[dailykoff]

75. Wait is this about Ferraro or the preacher?

If it's about the preacher, then I agree with you, non-issue.

[Thurston Howell III]

76. This is what they are going to push. Regardless if it's right or not!!

Obama is a cover Muslim http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

He's a radical Muslim who does not recite the Pledge. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

He was sworn in on the Quran. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp#quran

Does not put his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/anthem.asp That one is true. And it was stupid for him to do it!

Hugo Chavez. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/chavez.asp

[RememberWellstone]

78. He was'nt inflammatory

and was'nt calling for Blacks to hate whites. Big difference.

[Scurrilous]

79. Good question.

K & R :thumbsup:

[WinkyDink]

80. This OP is merely an excuse to slam John Kerry. No Democrat would pose this query.

We SUPPORTED John Kerry, REMEMBER??

[Hoof Hearted]

81. Is this how stupid it's gotten? I ALMOST feel sorry for you.

[BringBigDogBack]

82. Because he wasn't running against team Hillary

and her despicable chronies?


What do I win?

[TheZug]

83. Exactly.