Quick note for both Barack and Hillary supporters

[Creideiki]

I'm seeing some misconceptions fly dealing with people who want to assert that their candidate is above reproach and most definitely will not have skeletons in his or her respective closet and must be immediately canonized.

Here's the news flash: They're both from Illinois.

Illinois does not produce saints in politics (the closest in my 40-year lifetime would have been Paul Simon, and even HE had skeletons). Illinois produces, at best, pragmatists that are benign but know when to cover their own asses.

In fact, some of the best politicians Illinois has ever produced have had huge skeletons.

The former governor Ryan made a tactical error that increasing spending on infrastructure projects that included Chicago and the metro area wouldn't cost him his career. He was wrong and the rightwing "NO MORE TAXES EVER!" crowd threw him under the bus for a relatively minor (by Illinois standards) scandal that no one would have blinked at. Skeletons.

The current governor has decided to "rule from Chicago". He's also sacrificing higher education for K-12 education. Skeletons.

Lincoln was a great president--freed the slaves, kept the Union together through the Civil War...oh, and suspended habeus corpus and free speech. He also liked to have "overnights" with one of his officers. Skeletons.

Richard M. Daley (the current, not Richard J. Daley, the evil one) runs a political machine that would make most people across the country weep from the corruption--however, the roads are getting paved, the trash is getting picked up, the city is enjoying a renaissance, the electricity is staying on, and the snow is getting plowed. More skeletons than a cheap haunted house. And the man has a job until he decides to quit or die.

Hillary started out as a Republican, who had a come-to-Jesus moment and switched parties. Hillary also has a failed healthcare initiative in Bill's first term, and failures (attempts, sure, but failures nonetheless) to the LGBT community with attempts and triangulations. She's got people involved with her campaign making idiotic statements. Fortunately, we're (probably) past the Whitewater allegations, but there's still the matter of one Mr. Foster. Skeletons.

Barack has lived a charmed life that would be the envy of leprechauns everywhere. Seriously. The Punahou School? Harvard? He's also got skeletons--and a penchant for sneaking a cigarette when no one is watching isn't one of them--we've seen two now, there will be more. He's also going to have to spend GE campaign time shoring up relations with the LGBT community when he should be giving us the wink and nod because we know he'll at least want everyone to have equal rights. That's not a given. He's also got close personal ties with several corrupt or unsavory individuals. And his policies--some of them. *shudder* Skeletons.

Dick "with a B" Durbin should have been the one running, but he lacks--go figure--ambition. Or he knows what his skeletons are and he's the smart one because he doesn't want those aired to the public.

Illinois does not produce saints through its political processes. The best you can hope for is a benign pragmatist that knows how to cover his or her own ass. Please own this and deal with it. None of them are any cleaner or any dirtier than the rest.

In the meantime, trying to figure out how to win a GE with either candidate should be a paramount concern. Neither is a shoe-in.

So instead of attempting to blast the opposing Democratic candidate, why don't we spend some precious time talking about how the candidate that one is supporting can beat McCain. Maybe even which vice presidential candidate they could convince to run with through the slime with them that would help shore up weaknesses.

[grantcart]

1. None of the states do including Arizona

[Creideiki]

2. Grant, please tell me where in Illinois you're from?

I'm not trying to dismiss your argument. I'm trying desperately to explain that Illinois is orders of magnitude different.

I've lived in:

Hawaii
Washington State
Colorado
Virginia

I've had friends from everywhere. We talk politics because it's fun, and they like scary bedtime stories.

Just please be aware that the skeletons will be there, and find them and figure out how you want to downplay them. What passes for just fine in Illinois does not pass elsewhere. I've told stories about Illinois to friends from all over the place and watched them look in shock.

The Bart Simpson model of, "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything," won't carry through November. The political games in Illinois would make the Baby Machiavelli cry.

[grantcart]

3. When I was 18 I worked on a campaign for a prosecuting attorney

who actually was part of a team that investigated election fraud in Illinois and he explained about the graveyards and everything else. My daughter finished at Loyola University and lives in Chicago. I don't disagree with anything you said.

Are you aware of the skeletons in Arizona. It has long been rumored that no state in the Union, even Nevada has the mafia had more success with corrupting public officials than Arizona.




They indicted this guy 3 weeks ago.
Arizona Congressman Indicted

Rep. Rick Renzi, R-Ariz. waits to speak at a Republican fundraiser in Scottsdale, Ariz., in this Oct. 4, 2006 file photo. (AP)

U.S. Rep. Rick Renzi (R-Ariz.), who won reelection two years ago despite allegations of corruption, was indicted today for extortion, wire fraud, money laundering and other charges related to a land deal in Arizona.




Are you aware of the crimes that Cindy McCain has admitted to and gotten a pass on? I mean most people consider drug addiction bad but actually stealing drugs from a charity, after having an adulterous affair?



All I am saying is that we are not nominating a saint to run against a saint.


Of the three in this race Obama not only has the cleanest hands he is perceived to have the cleanest hands.

[murielm99]

4. I've lived in Illinois all my life.

I have been in politics at the grassroots level for awhile now. So were my parents before me. The first election I remember was 1956.

When I was younger, I simply assumed that all states were like ours. And while I hated Nixon, I understood his dirty tricks at a gut level. Didn't everyone do things like that?

My kids are old enough now to understand some of the realities behind our politics. No one is saying it is right. It simply is the reality here.

What intrigues me is that it is not always about money. Of course, for some people it is. Some of those people play both sides of the street. But the allure of power, even for a small-time pol, is the real attraction.

I like our politics. I like the people like Daley, who get things done. I admire Rahm Emmanuel as well. Someone here attacked me viciously for saying that a while ago. (Their tombstoning came as no surprise to me). And all the self-righteous anger about the DLC? I am not a DLC supporter, but if they think the DLC is bad, it does not compare to some Illinois political maneuvering.

I have to laugh at some of the people I see on this board. I could tell them long, involved stories about why I support the people and the party that I do. But I would not put in writing everything that I have heard or seen, even as a relatively unimportant foot soldier.

Don't think it is only Chicago, or only Democrats. DuPage County is a cesspool, and it is republican. The Quad Cities are not pure, nor is downstate.

It's fun, isn't it? I think I would be bored by politics if I lived in another state. I would have to find a new hobby.

I am surprised by the few replies to this thread. What is wrong with people? I thought GD:Politics was all about brawling.

[Bobbie47]

5. In downstate Illinois

I remember when the republicans in office made you pay for a state job.

[murielm99]

6. Do you remember Powell and his shoeboxes?

One of my friends was going to off to college for the first time during those years. He had no luggage. He put everything into paper bags and old shoeboxes. His dad bought him some luggage, so that everyone would not be able to tell he was from Illinois.

[Bobbie47]

7. Yes, I remember

but what did happen to the money did the state take it back. I can't remember it's been awhile.

[murielm99]

8. I don't remember what happened to the money.

I do remember how Powell lived, though. He drove an old car and lived well within the means of a state official.

I wondered if he had any plans to spend the money, or if he just liked having it around.

[EmilyAnne]

9. So what are these other skeletons of Barack Obama? Also, what policies of his make you shudder?

Thanks for your Illinois insight.