Wright will be the biggest test Barack Obama has yet to face.

[americanstranger]

I've been posting comments on various threads tonight, and figured I'd burn a post of my own on the subject. I've only posted one other thread in this forum, but I think this bears saying.

The Jeremiah Wright story, in case you didn't notice (heh), is the biggest discussion on this board. A lot of the usual heated rhetoric is flying back and forth, and I'd like to simply state one thing as an Obama supporter.

The way Obama ends up handling this issue will determine his readiness for the presidency of the United States.

He faces quite a quandary with Wright. The pastor is a long-time friend, he married Obama and his wife, baptised his children. You no doubt already know the whole story. Where Obama's problem lies is being able to distance himself from Wright's more incendiary rhetoric (an absolute necessity politically) yet still refrain from throwing a friend of 20 years under the bus. If Obama were to cut Wright off altogether, it would be seen as a cheap act of political expediency and would undermine the core message of his campaign.

Another issue is the timing of his response. Tomorrow (actually, today) is Friday, and it is absolutely essential that he takes the bull by the horns and puts this story away today. If he lets this story fester for the weekend and it ends up being fodder for the Sunday morning shreiking skulls of the media, it could very well be a knockout blow to his campaign. It is imperative that he call the press together tomorrow morning and sieze the news cycle with a strong yet reasoned response, or the story may well spin completely out of his control.

Right now, time is on his side. Sure, the story has been hammered by Fox News, but major news outlets (with the exception of ABC and the AP) have not sent it to the wires yet. This will probably happen by the time the sun comes up. And even though this has been a topic here since Wednesday night, many Americans have not seen it hit their radar yet. This plays to Obama's advantage, provided he can issue a statement (at the very least) to clarify the issue.

In my opinion, here's what he needs to do.

1. Get the statement out post haste. Every minute that this story is out there unanswered diminishes his chances of getting ahead of it. While a statement (if convincing enough) may do it, the best situation would be to call a press conference and face the media head on.

2. Rebuke Wright, but do not reject him. In the press conference, he needs to 'rebuke' Wright sternly and announce that he has asked for Wright's resignation from the Obama For President campaign - no lesser action is acceptable. IMO, he cannot 'reject and denounce' Wright - cutting him off completely would signal that he is willing to throw away a 20-year friendship in his quest for the presidency, and that would be in direct conflict with the core message of his campaign - new politics over old and values that transcend politics. It's a fine line to walk, and it will test his political acumen to a degree that it has never been test before.

3. Take questions. Let the media take their best shot, and use their questions as a springboard for an open discussion of race relations in America. The questions may burn, but he's absolutely got to stand and answer them. Anything less would appear callow and will create the perception that he's dodging the issue.

4. Challenge the media. While he's got the pulpit, he needs to encourage the media to get off the horse-race bullshit and report on stories that matter. Why do these feelings exist in African American churches still, at a time when we're all supposed to be past racism? Are we really that advanced as a country, and if not, why not? Use the situation at hand to provoke a larger discussion of matters that still fester in the black community - even though many Americans may think they were settled years ago.

It's a tall order. But this moment will show the country whether or not Barack Obama has what it takes to be president. It will be an opportunity to appeal to the humanity of those who, to this point, have chosen to hate. While it is a possible disaster for his campaign, it has the makings of a Golden Opportunity if he can use it to further a message that he is his own man while rejecting the politics of hate. If the tone of his response is sincere and his command of the situation steady, it could actually strngthen his campaign.

If he has the mojo to defuse this situation, I will move from being a lukewarm supporter to an enthusiastic one, and I think a lot of people would make that move right along with me. Can he do it? Stay tuned.

- as

[murielm99]

1. I agree.

Obama supporters on this site are dismissing the story or making fun of it. If the MSM decides to run with this, it will not be funny any more. And it looks to me like just the type of story they love.

I am surprised that you have not had more responses to your post.

[americanstranger]

3. Eh. It's the middle of the night.

Either that, or nobody's interested in a calm analysis. :D

That's what I was aiming for, anyway.

- as

[MADem]

2. There's a brief piece of tape that will stay problematic--that God DAMN America bit.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Obama gets the nomination. McCain can take the high ground, and a surrogate group can just play that GOD DAMN AMERICA clip over and over again for thirty seconds, with a pic of Obama off to the side, and say "This is the kind of church this guy attends--is he Presidential material?"

No mention of McCain, no mention of anything else. God DAMN America.

He's got a HUGE PROBLEM. And it's on TAPE. It's not like half-baked, unproven, poorly-sourced allegations about a romance with a young lobbyist. It's in your face...God DAMN America. He can't stash those tapes like he did all of his State Senate correspondence. They're out there. And that one's the worst, IMO.

See, all this "vetting" should have happened WAY SOONER than it's happening now. Why is this the HOT story this week? Really? It's not like these tapes are NEW, fachrissake. They've been available on DVD for SALE through the church for a LOOOOOONG time.

But no one wanted to "critique" the guy at all. Anyone who raised any objections, questions, concerns, well, they were shouted down and called RACISTS for daring to say "Someone needs to check this guy out."

His cheerleaders were WAY too inclined to "give him a pass" and "Don't question the 'movement' that is BO." And now, it's ass-biting time. Because this shit is biting him in the ass.

It's hard to muster a lot of sympathy for this predicament, even though I think it's a bit of a tempest in a tea pot. The bigger problem, actually, is that the wrong Rev. Wright has been caught on tape ELECTIONEERING from the pulpit--specifically exhorting the Obama candidacy and denigrating Clinton by name. That's the real problem, not the God Damn America thing--but no matter, it's all just a great big mess.

I was one of the ones saying there wasn't enough OPPO research done -- not by opposing candidates, but by the damned MEDIA -- on this guy. It was as though they drank the Kool Aid, too.

And now look what we have. In a country that gives way too much of a shit about religion, we have a guy who goes to the God Damn America church, who doesn't wear his fucking stupid flag pin, and puts his hands over his dick when everyone else puts them over their heart--see how this is gonna play out?

It's not even going to take any "cleverness" to swiftboat the guy.

[grantcart]

4. The only thing that your not factoring in is that the other side has

even nuttier pastors who are still saying crack pot things all of the time even this week.


Obama will handle it right he won't do it like you suggest he will disdain it and not take it too seriously at the same time. If he goes all out it seems like it is something bigger than it is.


There in fact is an upside to it. First it kills the Muslim charge - which is for a lot of ignorant folks more pervasive than people think - talked to a guy yesterday when I was getting my car fixed who thought he was a muslim.

The other thing is that it reinforces the fact that he has been attending regularly the same Church for 20 years.

Finally everybody who has ever gone to church has a couple of things that they don't agree with their pastor on. Sure not as clownish as this guy but the juxtaposition of Obama shows that this guy is cool and dapper and doesn't buy all the shit that the crazy pastor says but he still goes to Church.

Americans like leaders who go to Church - but don't like them to listen to their pastors - crazy or not too much.

[MADem]

24. What "other side?" McCain? McCain's affiliation with that fundy isn't a 20 year drill.

That's plainly a marriage of convenience. And speaking of marriage, he didn't marry Popeye and Cindy or baptize those kids they had/adopted.

Obama has already "weak sistered" his response. He didn't "disdain." He tried to parse it, like the guy is an "UNCLE" he doesn't always agree with....yeah, that crazy "KILL WHITEY" uncle you don't introduce to any of your friends...THAT kind of uncle!

Americans DO like leaders who go to church--not Cathedrals of Hate.

[polticalpout]

25. Cathedrals of Hate...lol that's a bit much

You need a hell of a lot more than the few tapes I've seen to call his church a 'Cathedrals of Hate', 1 man is not a church.

[writes3000]

27. "One man is not a church": Key point there.

But for this story to stick, they need to make it into a "Cathedral of Hate." Otherwise, it's not nearly as scary.

[MADem]

52. One man WAS that church for twenty years. And his replacement is off on the wrong foot already.

He's been electioneering from the pulpit in violation of federal law.

[MADem]

51. I invite your attention to the cites and sources I have provided throughout this thread.

Anyone saying the KLAN runs "God Damn America" isn't singing Kumbayah, and that sort of verbiage is the opposite of either "Love" or "Unity."

[polticalpout]

55. I agree, but is that his only message?

How many sermons by Wright have you seen? Does he have another message? I'm sure he does and I take it that is where Obama get's his message from.

[MADem]

58. It doesn't matter if that's his "only" message. It's a theme he returns to, and it is a klunker in

the "unity" department. It's RACIST, frankly. And it's also radical.

Mister and Missus America aren't going to look at this shit and say "Awww, I'll bet he gives a lovely Easter sermon on the resurrection, we'll just pay no attention to that 'Klan runs God Damn America' crap."

I am not going to "blame" Rev. Wright for his sermons, though. Obama chose that church for his own reasons--and I wouldn't be surprised if they were political to some extent. Now he has to reap what he has sown--his chickens, as it were, are coming home to roost.

[murielm99]

5. I don't think the media drank the koolaid.

I think they have been holding back. If Obama becomes the nominee, they will blast him with this and more. He needs to address this.

I am not an Obama supporter. I have many reservations about him. But if he becomes the nominee, we will have to win. For the sake of the party and all of us, he can't ignore this.

[americanstranger]

7. I expect that some people will never be satisfied with what he'll say.

But I believe that if he gets ahead of the story and grabs headlines with his response to it, it will innoculate him from it being used further, and anyone who tries it will look like an idiot.

I think if he asks for Wright's resignation and effectively makes him not an official part of his campaign, then Wright will assume the same spot Gerry Ferraro holds now - someone who shot their mouth of intemperately, was cut loose from the campaign and is no longer considered part of the campaign.

And I think your anger about the 'God damn America' is slightly off-target. Remember, Barack Obama did not say those words. If he moves Wright out of the campaign, then trying to tar Obama with Wright's words will be as effective as trying to tar Hillary Clinton with Gerry Ferraro's - sure, you can do it, but you'd look pretty silly doing so.

(For the sake of clarity - by 'you' I don't mean you, MADem. I'm speaking generally here.)

- as

[MADem]

26. I assume you mean resign from Obama's campaign.

The guy has already retired from the church, and another bigmouth named Moss (who, like Wright, also electioneers from the pulpit in violation of IRS law) has taken over.

How can Obama cut himself off from this guy, believeably, really? He gave the church twenty five grand last year. He ATTENDS. He has heard the guy preach, he KNOWS what his schtick is. There's no way that he can DENY that he didn't know what this preacher was all about, after all. He's the guy who gave him his BOOK title.

What, is Obama gonna pretend to be the guy who SLEPT through EVERY sermon? He didn't KNOW what the guy was talking about? The guy NEVER preached about hating Whitey and America and the Klan running everything when HE was there?

Please. It just defies credulity. And those DVDs--they're for SALE. At the church. On the internet.

I am not angry, and I don't think anyone, generally, on seeing this guy's work, would be "angry." They'd be APPALLED, though.

How can a guy who goes to the "Church of Hate Whitey and Damn America That's Run By the Klan" really be a "uniter?" There's a massive fucking disconnect there.

I am simply pointing out some plain FACTS here .... it's a problem. One that will NOT go away.

[americanstranger]

28. Exactly what I mean.

I stressed that in the OP. It must be done. anything less will look like an empty gesture.

And I don't think he's even tried to deny that he knows what the guy has said. that's a non-starter.

And if you don't mind my saying so, you're being more than a little hyperbolic with the 'Church of hate Whitey' stuff. I'm trying to remain civil here. I realize you're trying to make a point, but could you maybe dial it back a little?

- as

[MADem]

48. I provided a video link, and a cite. The guy used inflammatory and inciting language.

This preacher says the KLAN runs America. That's not "Whitey love." My characterization of what this guy said is most certainly not ot hyperbole, either. There is just no way to sugar-coat this turd.

Here, let's go to another source, for a bit more verbiage to illustrate the point I was making:

Barack Obama faced potential damage to his campaign yesterday after television networks aired footage of sermons by the former pastor of Obama's church likening the Democratic frontrunner to Jesus and declaring: "God damn America."

In the sermons the Rev Jeremiah Wright, who presided over Obama's marriage and provided the title of his book Audacity of Hope, condemned what he described as a systemic effort to keep black people in poverty.

The accusations of racism could prove embarrassing to Obama who has based his candidacy around a message of unity. In his sermons Wright reportedly refers to the US as being under the influence of the Ku Klux Klan, and describes black Republicans as sellouts.......In January, Wright spoke from the pulpit in praise of Obama's leadership, comparing his campaign to Jesus's struggles under the Romans, according to Fox television. "Barack knows what it means living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich white people," Wright said. "Hillary would never know that." He went on: "Hillary ain't never been called a nigger. Hillary has never had a people defined as a non-person."

Wright also took issue with the idea that Bill Clinton was a friend to African-Americans. "Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain't. Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/14/barackobama.hillaryclinton

You can't pick your crazy old uncle. But you CAN pick your crazy old pastor. That's the point that Obama can't overcome.

He kept coming back to this shit, for TWENTY YEARS. And from what I understand, the guy has no role in Obama's campaign, so he can't even fire the guy. The guy is just "out there" on tape, at a church where Obama has been a member for two decades.

This NYT opinion piece has some fair points, too--the irony is that most Obama supporters despise Taylor Marsh, and she's the only one coming, albeit weakly, to the guy's defense: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/a-sermon-echoing-around-obama/?ref=opinion

March 13, 2008, 2:20 pm
A Sermon’s Echoes Threaten Obama
By Chris Suellentrop

Tags: Barack Obama, Religion

News stories by ABC News and Fox News on the sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama’s pastor at the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, are creating a stir in blogland. ABC News leads with Wright saying, in 2003, “God damn America” (“for killing innocent people,” “for treating our citizens as less than human,” and “for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme”). Fox leads with a more recent sermon, from January, in support of Obama’s candidacy, and a Christmas sermon in which, Fox’s Jeff Goldblatt writes, “Wright tried to compare Obama’s upbringing to Jesus at the hands of the Romans.”
Roger L. Simon, the screenwriter and mystery novelist, thinks the sermons are a big deal. “As we all know, we don’t choose our family, but Obama chose this racist demagogue as his pastor for decades. It’s not funny,” Simon writes on his personal blog. “It could do for Obama what Willie Horton did for Dukakis,” Simon later adds. “But unlike the Willie Horton ad, Obama will deserve this. Horton was a mistake by Dukakis that any of us could have made. Jeremiah Wright was Obama’s personal choice for years.”
National Review’s Jim Geraghty points to one reason why Wright’s sermons might stay in the news longer than remarks by Geraldine Ferraro or Samantha Power: “Rev. Jeremiah Wright has no official position with the Obama campaign, and it’s almost a shame, because that means he can’t resign to distance himself from the candidate.”
But Taylor Marsh, a radio talk-show host who is a strong Hillary Clinton supporter, points to a reason why Wright’s sermons shouldn’t be used against Obama. “For perspective, I certainly do not agree with everything my pastors have said on Sunday,” Marsh writes on her blog. “I also know too many ‘cafeteria’ Catholics, some in my own family, who pick and choose from the doctrines of their faith.”

The ULTIMATE irony of all this, of course, is that way too many Obama supporters have been awfully quick to throw down that "racist" card, and now we find out that Racist in Chief was preaching from the pulpit at Obama's church. This is the opposite of UNITY, what this guy is spouting. If this gains any more traction, it just isn't going to play well From Sea to Shining Sea and it might go so far as to be a mini-Macaca moment. Time will tell.

[americanstranger]

57. Ever listen to a Public Enemy album?

'It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back.' Released 1988.

I loved that record. Listened to it every day. Chuck D (went on to be on-air talent on Air America for a time) said pretty much the same things that Wright is on tape saying. Had nice things to say about Farrakhan, sort of. Dissed Elvis. Criticized the media. Said less than nice things about a lot of white people.

From the PE sprang Sister Soulja - yes, the one who Bill Clinton scolded, she of 'Sister Soulja moment' fame.

Those who were listening heard this stuff years ago. Some of it was even set to music. But I digress.

Everyone treats Wright like he's the first one saying these things. He's not. Pastors in black churches have been saying these same things for years, especially those who came up in the 60s. Way back in the day, people like Jeremiah Wright were readily accepted in the liberal community, because they spoke truth to power. And not lightweight 21st century bullshit like 'Bush lied, people died.' They were fierce, they were respected, they were accepted.

Today? Not so much. Now, they're bad men, they're hateful, they're pretty much Un-American if you read some of the posts on this board. Being a liberal sure ain't what it used to be. Not so inclusive any more, not as ready to accept flawed humans as our reputation says we are. Maybe not as tolerant as we hold ourselves up to be. A little more bloodthirsty and a little less compassionate. Not much different from those we are trying to defeat in November, honestly.

Some people are straight up freaking out over Wright's comments. Some are using them as a club to beat Barack Obama with, and they won't stop soon because they're enjoying it way too much. And they probably won't stop until Barack Obama is destroyed, because they think that is what he deserves. He's friends with a bad, hateful man who said that maybe this country isn't as exceptional as most of us would like to think it is, so he's fair game to be torn down.

Because now we're all about winning. Ethics? fuck 'em. Unity? Bullshit. Progress? A joke. Screw it all, we gotta win. Just win, baby. If somebody gets hurt, tough shit.

Was this type of sermon delivered by Jeremiah Wright every week for 20 years? Probably not. There was probably quite a bit of more standard Christian fare about loving your enemies and supporting your family and helping your community and other topics you're just as likely to hear in a white church. But some people will act like every word that ever came out of the man's mouth was about hating Whitey and damning America and blaming America for 9/11, because those are the worst things that anyone could ever think to say about this beautiful, perfect country of ours. And those words are the ones that are useful right now, since they are the ones that will knock Barack Obama's halo down a couple of notches. Because some people think that's what he has coming to him.

But I've seen at least two of those sentiments posted here, in slightly varying forms, for the seven years I've been posting here - I've seen a lot of people damn this country, and I've seen posters claim that because of the way we act as a country in this world, 9/11 was a comeuppance. At one time, those type of posts were fairly common, widely read and even praised by the liberals here. It's funny, but I don't really remember so many DUers getting upset about those sentiments as I've seen them do when it was an opportunity to bring down Barack Obama. Isn't that funny?

Isn't it?

- as

[MADem]

63. I am too old for that stuff.

Look, you're doing it--you're pulling the "Poor Barack" card out and waving it around. Either the guy is a leader, or he is someone who is to be coddled. He can't be both.

You know damn right well if Johnny McCain contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars over two decades to a church where the Reverend stood up and said "God Damn America" everyone would be all over him like stink on shit. Same with Clinton.

It's not "anything to win" (choke, sob). And ethics has nothing to do with asking questions about this matter.

It's fucking JUDGMENT. If Barack Obama, sitting at home a few years back, thinking "I'm gonna RUN for President" didn't have the sense to say "Shit, maybe I need to back away from this out-of-the-mainstream, slightly separatist and inflammatory/invective-laden church" and maybe move on to something a bit less controversial, a bit more staid, a bit more "sea to shining sea."

Look, the TUCC has the right to be as separatist as they want. And they don't have to be the "first" to say those things, either. Rev. Wright can say whatever he wants--except he and Moss need to STOP preaching Vote For Obama from the pulpit, and they've been doing that for two years, or the IRS will get them--and that's fine. They can say they hate America, that whites are inherently evil, they can even 'do the Farrakhan' if they so desire. No one is going to stop them.

But people do have a right--an ABSOLUTE right-- to JUDGE Obama's willingness, readiness, and ABILITY to lead "all the people" when he's relying on spiritual advice from a guy who thinks we're all a bunch of racists in a country that is damned by God and run by rich, white Klansmen. And that's not "bringing down Barack Obama" to question his judgment. What the FUCK was he thinking, sticking with this guy and this church?

It's not even a question of "DUers getting upset" either, so stow that canard, too. DU sure as fuck doesn't elect Presidents. We're batting ZERO so far. And this place is WELL LEFT of the mainstream.

I am telling you that MAINSTREAM AMERICA is going to look at these Wright sermons and say :wtf: and you can't blame them. Not everyone in the US is a black person living in an urban environment. Some people, in fact MOST people, will regard those sermons as angry invective, a call for separatism, the opposite of "unity."

And I'm an old school sixties liberal. God DAMN America isn't a liberal thought. We wanted to make it a BETTER place, not DAMN it.

[americanstranger]

61. You're mistaken about one thing.

Wright is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wrights_committee.html

- as

[MADem]

64. I was relying on the NYT commentary cite for my assertion. They were

quoting someone else who got it wrong, apparently.

The Right Wing Politico does make an interesting point:

Wright is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee — the sort of largely honorary, advisory body that in recent days has recently been used mostly to throw people off who say controversial things.

The Obama campaign couldn't immediately say whether he'd remain on the committee.

[Iceburg]

67. "gets ahead of the story " -- how do you get ahead of a story that has

been propelling you for 23 years?

[americanstranger]

68. I'm sick of arguing with you guys. I've been going back and forth all night long here.

You're not in this to find a nominee. You're in this to trash your opponent.

I tried to put up a post that was a little more analytical than the usual bullshit that gets posted in here 24/7, and what do I get back?

The usual bullshit that gets posted in here 24/7.

Go ahead, destroy a Democrat to get your candidate elected. I'm pretty sick of all of it, so it's all yours. Smash the party, burn it down for all i care.

Throw the goddamn election to prove that you can take down a fellow Dem. Have fun, score your little points. enjoy your bloodbath, and say hi to President McCain for me.

I'm right on the verge of not giving a flying fuck at this point.

- as

[FrenchieCat]

8. I find that you are

being a bit righteous. McCain has some pretty unsavory character endorsing him these days from the ministry. But many people probably think like you. That a Black person saying what old Reverend Wright said is more evil and radical.....than hating Catholics or another hating Muslims and saying terrible things about that. How come that is not testing McCain's nomination?

And of course, Hillary Clinton should be knocked out of the nominee box because her husband was impeached in the same office. I mean, him lying to the country with his finger which distracted the country for years. To me, that is more egregious.

But of course, there is a double standard, same as ever...
which is ultra regressively disturbing to me.....but then, my vote doesn't count either.

[polticalpout]

12. The difference is the relationship Obama has with this guy, why is this being blown off?

To me it's clear that Obama is much closer to Wright than McCain is to the unsavory character endorsing him, and that is the problem. If Wright were just another guy Obama kind-of-knew-but-not-really, then this story would not be much of a problem. It's clear that Obama was and is very close to Wright, this is the issue.

[MADem]

34. Righteous, my ass. This is a problem. Pretend it isn't if it makes you happier.

I really don't care.

McCain doesn't have a twenty year relationship with a guy who runs a church that preaches hatred towards whitey and damnation of America. He just doesn't. He didn't give twenty five grand last year to a guy running a church shopping those themes, either. He didn't have such a guy marry him to his wife, or baptize his kids.


You can talk about what YOU think is "more egregious" (BTW, neither Michelle Obama nor Bill Clinton are running for office this time) but I'll wager the vast majority of Americans won't agree with your take. This "America is to blame for 911" preacher will not be helpful to Senator Obama, while McCain's political associations, not rising to the level of Pastor-Congregant, with fundy religious leaders will NOT be viewed in the same way.

See, it ISN'T a double standard, because it isn't the same type of relationship. McCain doesn't attend their churches. He isn't a congregant/parishoner. And those fundy preachers of McCain's aren't shopping a "Damn America" theme, either.

If I had to guess, I'll bet McCain is one of those Christmas And Easter Christians. He probably sleeps in most Sundays. He has that air about him.

[polticalpout]

10. You nailed it.

Even if Obama does everything the OP says perfectly he's damaged. Like you said, the flag pin, the hand of the heart during the pledge really don't mean shit but when you ad this new ingredient it makes for a explosive compound, how bad the blast is remains to be seen but it doesn't look good. His past denunciation of Wright's questionable views was not strong enough and most certainly was not loud enough and the fact that any new action/words is just reactionary to an old tape coming to light out makes it worse, he should have delt with this way before now in a much stronger manner.

As for Hillary, her best move is to not touch this story, piling on will look very unattractive.

[americanstranger]

13. I don't see it as that big of a deal, if he confronts it directly.

Remember, if the Rightards want to throw this back at them, Obama can - and will - counter with the Catholic-hating Hagee, who's in McCrazy's corner.

I'm not sure even St. Straight Talk wants to have that argument, because he's never disavowed Hagee.

And as for Hillary not piling on - good luck with that. That campaign staff is like the '65 Mets, only not as lovable. You just know that one of their staffers is gonna get cocky about this situation and say something stupid. It's like they've got Tourette's over there - they just cannot help themselves.

And that will be next week's Big Outrage. :)

- as

[anamandujano]

15. Showing your objectivity again.

:eyes:

[americanstranger]

19. I make no secret of my disdain for Clinton's campaign staff.

You can take it as disdain for the candidate herself if you want. I really don't care.

But even if you do, the bottom line is that Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson are stumblebums. If they're so good, Clinton would have had this thing sewn up on February 5 like she predicted.

And if you read my OP carefully, I did plainly state that I am an Obama supporter. Maybe you missed that point in your haste to play gotcha. Sorry.

- as

[writes3000]

23. And she should have had it wrapped up.

I blame Hillary along with the other two.

Was it really a stretch to go into the campaign as if she was the underdog? It would have made all the difference in their work ethic.

[anamandujano]

35. She's neck and neck with tons less money and the MSM trashing

her relentlessly.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

74. The amount of money raised is nearly identical.

Inform yourself before spewing bullshit.

[anamandujano]

33. You mislead somewhat by using the word "lukewarm."

"If he has the mojo to defuse this situation, I will move from being a lukewarm supporter to an enthusiastic one,"

[americanstranger]

37. I've explained myself.

See post #9.

- as

[writes3000]

16. I agree. And I think there's a way for Obama to perfectly handle this.

I hope the Clinton campaign is smart enough to stay away from it. But I wouldn't bet on it. Especially if it doesn't get the traction they are so desperately (I suspect) hoping for.

[MADem]

50. He's already confronted it, poorly. He calls the guy an uncle that he sometimes disagrees with.

Sorry, that's bull. You can't pick your relatives, but you CAN pick your church. And that video is a gift that keeps on giving to his opposition.

McCain is NOT a congregant of Hagee's. He didn't give Hagee twenty five grand and sit in a pew at Hagee's church. And he's already said "I don't agree with Hagee" on those matters. He refuses to "disavow" because he wants the fucking endorsement, but he's done a good job of separating the guy out, saying that he doesn't agree with everyone who endorses his campaign. http://www.startribune.com/nation/16128827.html

An endorsement during the political season is a VERY different kettle o'fish than a two decades long pastor-congregant relationship, too.

[anamandujano]

14. Of course the MSM will prod her relentlessly to participate.

They will search for something to spin it against her.

[aquarius dawning]

6. I think you have to come to the realization that there is no quashing this.

which leads to some very unpleasent political realities.

[americanstranger]

9. Meh. I'm pretty ambivalent, myself.

I'm late to the Obama party, and became a supporter because of Clinton's inept campaign staff. I'm of the belief (and I've posted this before) that you can tell a lot about how a candidate will run a GE campaign by how they run their primary campaign. Clinton's staff has made far too many missteps for my taste, and Obama's campaign has far outclassed Clinton's in terms of organization and adaptability.

Neither candidate attracted me positively. This is Obama's big chance to win my heart if he can defuse the situation.

But I agree. The only way for this to go away is if he decides to man up and do the right thing.

- as

[aquarius dawning]

17. Thiswill ruin him in a general election. It's already done.

[polticalpout]

21. General election looks very bleak for Dems right now

Obama has this bit and Hillary has the black community really pissed off. If she gets the nod without Obama as VP I honestly don't think she is going to get the black vote which will cost her dearly.

[americanstranger]

22. Well, let's all go home then.

- as

[Hippo_Tron]

30. This was gonna happen with any black candidate that we run

If Obama gets the nomination, we're going to really find out if America is ready for a black president.

[anamandujano]

39. I think it's safe to say that America is not ready for Wright.

[Hippo_Tron]

41. Wright isn't running for President

Pretty much every politician has ties to less than desirable people. I don't agree with Wright's statements but they are no worse than anything said by the right wing preachers and America has elected plenty of Republicans that are associated with them.

Any black candidate was going to be associated with figures like Wright no matter how strong or weak the actual association is. Hence we're going to find out if America is truly ready for a black president.

[anamandujano]

43. Wright and Obama are joined at the hip. I think you're wrong that

any black would be associated with figures like Wright. They may know them but not embrace them as closely as Obama has Wright.

America may well be ready for a black president, just not someone who has the baggage we now see attached to Obama.

[uponit7771]

73. So one black person always speaks for the other or are you saying that would be racist....

...Americas perception?

Thx

[anamandujano]

11. Two things

"2. Rebuke Wright, but do not reject him. In the press conference, he needs to 'rebuke' Wright sternly and announce that he has asked for Wright's resignation from the Obama For President campaign"

The problem I see with this is that he only does the right thing when it looks to be a political problem for him.


"It will be an opportunity to appeal to the humanity of those who, to this point, have chosen to hate. "

He had 20 years to appeal to Wright's humanity and has not as yet chosen to do so.


If he somehow manages to discourage the media from running with this, it will just show he cleverly side stepped a huge problem. It doesn't mean he can revive the economy or negotiate peace with Iran.

edit to add--I'll be shocked if this doesn't make the Sundays.

[americanstranger]

18. RE: Two things

The problem I see with this is that he only does the right thing when it looks to be a political problem for him.

Cuts both ways. The guy on Clinton's campaign who sent the muslim email got cut only after the heat was turned up on him. Same with Ferraro.

It's known as 'damage control.' Some politicians do it well, some don't. This will be a test of how well Obama does it.

He had 20 years to appeal to Wright's humanity and has not as yet chosen to do so.

Honestly, you have no way in the world of knowing that. Maybe he has tried. Unless you go to the same church he does for as long as he has, you're making an accusation you have no possible way of backing up.

- as

[writes3000]

20. Yes AND Obama has shown that he is willing to speak up in churches

And speak out against things he disagrees with.

How many times do we think the church-goers of the USA have heard a minister, preacher, pastor, rabbi or priest say something that they strongly disagreed with?

Did they all suddenly leave their churches?

[anamandujano]

31. The kind of stuff we're talking about here would call for people to

either sign on or disassociate.

Further, he was Obama's mentor.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mentor

[writes3000]

36. Completely, completely disagree

I'm not a regular church-goer but I've grown up around many and I have many Christians as my friends. Christian church-goers are amazingly loyal to their churches. Even when they disagree with something that's said.

Look at the Catholic Church scandals. Did the majority of people abandon those churches? Did Ted Haggard's flock suddenly stop showing up because he was proven to be a liar, a fraud and a "sinner"?

People have relationships with their churches that goes beyond their relationship with any single pastor or priest.

Now, Obama had a close relationship with this guy so that makes it different. But I also do not believe that Obama was simply patting him on the back or applauding after these inflammatory statements.

Obama has taken too many public, political positions - he's spoken up and out on too many occasions - for most thinking people to believe that ALL of that was a 20 year lie.

As I said Obama has spoken out in black churches in several states about the evils of bigotry and hate. That's a fact.

[anamandujano]

44. Mentor

[anamandujano]

29. Someone was wondering if Olberman would take umbrage at the

twenty years, as he did the few days it took for Ferraro to go.

"He had 20 years to appeal to Wright's humanity and has not as yet chosen to do so."

"Honestly, you have no way in the world of knowing that. Maybe he has tried. Unless you go to the same church he does for as long as he has, you're making an accusation you have no possible way of backing up."

In my mind, I'm positive he never tried to mollify Wright's hostility. But who am I? Nada.

Do you really expect the public to split hairs like this? The tapes are there, the history is there. He can go on and on about debates he may have had with Wright. I think he'd be lying but I definitely suspect a lot of eyebrows would go up up up, sort of a "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." He has spoken of "not agreeing" but never of debates or challenges to Wright's positions. Again, only when prodded does he come forward with his lame and tepid explanations.

And, what was the guy doing in his campaign, counseling people?

I also think there's a possibility that Wright may want to speak up. After all, this is his 15 minutes, isn't it.

[americanstranger]

32. Showing your objectivity again.

Like I said upthread, some people won't be satisfied no matter what Obama says. I'll count you among them.

We'll see how he handles it. I think he'll survive it, you obviously disagree. Let's leave it there.

- as

[anamandujano]

42. I'm pretty satisfied that he's screwed. He's been such a nasty

campaigner, I don't mind at all that Karma has finally stepped up to the plate.

I'm amused at all the press secretaries he has here at DU trying to get just the right spin. He needs all the help he can get. No doubt they are all sweating bullets over this.

[usrbs]

60. Unfortunately, he'll survive in the primaries, but not in the GE n/t

[MADem]

54. Wright never had a role in the campaign. He did--against federal law--preach in support of

Obama's candidacy and AGAINST Clinton from the pulpit, though. WSJ covered that yesterday.

You're right though--the only thing to be done is for Wright stand up and to throw himself on his sword. I sorta don't see that happening, though...I could be wrong.

[MADem]

53. It is not the role of the CONGREGANT to "fix" the Pastor. It is the PASTOR's role

to spiritually feed the flock.

Anyone who goes to a church where hate is spouted from the pulpit for twenty years, and who gives many hundreds of thousands of dollars to the church over several decades, and who "tries" to appeal to the frigging PASTOR's "humanity" for all that time, unsuccessfully...has a JUDGMENT problem.

Either Obama slept through the sermons, or he didn't. Either he liked what he heard, or maybe he just liked the fact that some six thousand VOTERS attended that church.....who knows? He didn't leave, that much we DO know.

There's no polishing this turd. Wright got one thing right--those chickens ARE coming home to roost.

[shaniqua6392]

38. I did see a story yesterday on Inside Edition about Wright.

They showed him doing that sermon where he says the "n" word and says Hillary knows nothing of being black and poor, etc. It did not look good that Obama is associated with this man. Other than that it has only been shown on Faux News to my knowledge. I wonder if the MSM will pick this up more today or tomorrow. I sure hope not. Obama needs to denounce this man immediately or this is going to stick on him. Even I was offended by the stuff Rev. Wright was saying. He is a racist and it will not go over well with the public if this gets out any more in the media. Obama will lose white voters.

[americanstranger]

40. That was the point of my post. n/t

- as

[shaniqua6392]

45. It is the lead story on Morning Joe on MSNBC right now.

I think it will be spreading out today and tomorrow. I wonder how far this will spread over the media?

[americanstranger]

46. Probably far and wide.

Like somebody upthread said, they love stuff like this.

Obama better get on this early.

- as

[FrenchieCat]

47. Hold your breath, Not that long!

Oh Goody! :sarcasm:

Ok with most of us, hope y'all survive!

[anamandujano]

49. Since it finally broke the wall down at MSNBC, we can say the

story has finally arrived.

Let's see how well they blame Hillary for it.

[JoFerret]

56. Tall order. There's a test in here or Obama supporters too

Indeed for all of us.

[Perry Logan]

59. Has the Clinton campaign brought this up? I mean, if they're so dirty...

[Iceburg]

62. 23 yr close relationship with Rev Right + 17 year close relationship with Rezko = bad judgment

...a pattern of bad judgment.

Rebuking, rejecting, denouncing at this point will have little effect and will only serve to underline that Obama seems incapable of knowing or doing the right thing unless under pressure. Lets recall, it was only during the last public debate that he "rejected" Farrakhan. Do you honestly think he would have denounced Farrakhan had the subject not come up during the debate. Thank you Hillary.

Regarding the Wright videos: Obama has run the most divisive and dangerous campaign in Dem party history and now we understand where his "slice and dice" (Obama's words) ideas and campaign tactics were born. Rev Wright's speeches are so vitriolic, hate filled, and offensive that the MSM has to issue a warning before showing them. How many parents would be at ease showing these videos of Mr. Obama's spirtual advisor and mentor to their 10 year olds? Not many is my guess.

Further, recall back in January his threat to divide the party...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pcdhxe1MjsU

With that, he may have obtained the wedge he desperately sought and required to seal up a large portion (but not all) of the AA vote for the upcoming February contests. Contrary to his alleged theme of unity, his campaign has calculated on and benefitted from division -- by injecting racism, sexism, ageism, and educational elitism at every opportunity. Yet another example of his short sightedness and poor judgment. Pennsylvania will be an eye opener to all.

Bottom line: Obama spent the past 23 years being indoctrined on hate and the power of division, his political career launched and sustained for over 17 years by the organized criminal elements of Chicago. No judgment -- NObama.

[MADem]

65. You're right. That's a rather careful and precise framing, too. NT

[Vinca]

66. Every day I log onto this forum I wonder what the "scandal du jour"

will be. At first I got really annoyed, now I'm sort of amused. Especially over the current "scandal." Some of us agree more with the pastor than not - even some of us old, white women. Hillary needs to keep digging. This one is not going to do it - especially in light of John McCain's religious supporters. Maybe she'll get an SNL skit out of it.

[Hepburn]

69. Ironic, huh?

On one hand the bigots are shouting about his middle name and his Muslim relatives in order to make him Muslim...and on the other hand, they are shouting about his wacko minister to make him a wacko Christian.

It is gonna set some Obama haters to a real test to see which supposed religious connection they are gonna scream about the loudest.

I guess hate need not be rational...obviously.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

70. americanstranger, thanks for your thoughtful, reasoned OP. The discussion following has been

good, as well.

We Democrats are in a party that is at great risk of being completely destroyed, because its liberal platform is an anathema to the powers that be.

We all need to be thinking forward pragmatically. This controversy threatens one of our candidates and by discussing the realities of the situation we can open some eyes and keep a focus on the big picture.

I really liked your post, thank you. :kick:

[americanstranger]

71. Thank you.

I've been getting pretty frustrated with the discussion, though. Insomnia's got me and I've been awake for a long time now.

My fuse is shortening, as you can tell if you read my later posts.

We should not even be thinking about losing this election. It should be a foregone conclusion that we will win. But if we keep on like things have been going here, we'll be sitting at home next January 20 watching one of the Supremes swearing in McCain.

It really angers me that no one seems to want to see that.

- as

[kwassa]

72. I personally think this "scandal" is trivial and will float away ina couple of days.

Just like all the other Outrages Du Jour.

why?
1) People willfully misinterpreting Wright, and seen as doing so, over time.

2) Wright is not Obama.

[americanstranger]

75. Kick.

Because it turns out he hit just about every point I made.

Nice work, Senator.

- as