Reality Check!

[boston bean]

For those who think that Jeremiah Wright is not going to be a big issue for Obama are out of their minds.

Barack Obama has belonged to this church for over twenty years.

Barack Obama has touted this man as his spiritual advisor, his mentor. Wright baptized him, married him, baptized his children.

Barack Obama has said that Jeremiah Wright has been influential in his life, is the one who brought him to Christianity.

Barack Obama wrote a book inspired by a sermon Jeremiah Wright gave called The Audacity to Hope.

Barack Obama put Jeremiah Wright on a religious steering committee within his campaign.

Then add in that Michelle is just now proud of America for the first time in her adult life.

Obama will not be able to sufficiently remove his relationship with this man.

[ThatBozGuy]

1. Dodge parry, duck, spin, Sproing, Fail

I say it wont stick.

Reality is relative.

Wrong is subjective.

Your Reality check bounced and so did mine as soon as it becomes future predictions and opinion.

[JoFerret]

2. I can't see any ticket with Obama

having a chance in November.

I take no pleasure it that. It's a bloody tragedy.

But - bright side - may be I am wrong and this poisoned episode will truly fade never to be brought to life by the GOP.It's all blind prediction and speculation.

[ThatBozGuy]

3. Mr McCains negatives on nutcase preachers are much higher.....This only has legs in the primary.

And only damages the Democratic parties chances.

[JoFerret]

6. I don't know what world you are in

but it does not seem to be the USA.

[ThatBozGuy]

9. In the Democratic party where we embrace all peoples rights to freedom from religious persecution...

Rather than the republican religion is our driving force mentality.

You should review the difference some time, might make for an easier choice in parties for you.

[JoFerret]

17. The big picture here is the future of our country.

Save your sarcasm

[boston bean]

7. Oh that will be great, two candidates and we can argue about which is nuttier. nt

[JTFrog]

8. True. Hillary and McInsane are about on equal footing there. Same lifetime of experience and all.

[ThatBozGuy]

13. If your democrat you won't be arguing Mr McCain's side unless you continue to act like Ms Clinton

[roguevalley]

19. okay, let's look at this clearly then. Wright is an idiot who had been

a minister here for a long long time. Point to one episode of Obama's life, one time he acted on what this crank said. That is the point here. The wackos on the right act on what their pastors say and use them to justify their hate. i see nothing in Obama that shows he's acted on wright's hatred. his position on gays may not be to some's hope, including mine, but he hasn't enacted legislation criminalizing them either.

Do they act on the hatred? That should be the rule of thumb. Even Hillary has a horrible group in her religious life. Do we dump her too? Or do we only do it with the man who has a public asshole, rather than the one who is communing with the spiders of the Fellowship, those who do wield power to harm.

[JTFrog]

4. Please do make an issue out of it. I've been dying for someone to pull Hillary's secret little

covenant out into the open and start discussing this.

It's always a good idea to delve into the religious lives of our leaders because that's what we as Democrats have always been about. :sarcasm:

So, let's get it out there and make some comparisons. I'd rather have a president who has a relationship with a preacher who puts his views out there for all to see than have a president who has secret meetings with "The Family" who think they are the Jesus mafia.

[cali]

5. We know that you're orgasmic over the prospect that this will

take down Obama. It's highly unlikely. But don't let me stop you from wanking off publically over it. I know what I think you are.

[boston bean]

11. I'm not "orgasmic" about this, it is sad, it is bad and it hurts the party, but that is O's fault.

No one elses.

[ThatBozGuy]

15. It is just getting in bed with the Republicans to attack a Democrat on the basis of religion

Freedom from religious persecution is a core Democratic party plank.

Perhaps you might want to consider searching elsewhere for a religious attack platform.

[usrbs]

10. I found a partial spin!

He can claim that Wright brought him to Jesus, and that made him so grateful, that he could overlook all the rest. This should mollify at least the religious nuts.

This doesn't explain Wright's presence on the steering committee, but he can say that that committee is just honorary in nature and means nothing.


Obama supporters - consider this my gift to you.

[JimGinPA]

12. This Blip Will Be Be A Big Deal For HRC Fanatics At DU For A Few Days...

And will drip, drip, drip in the M$M for a while until Obama defuses it once again, pointing out this is not the first time he has spoken on this and has distanced himself from his former pastor's positions. And then either HRC or one of her surrogates will say or do something outlandish and a fresh news cycle will begin.

[boston bean]

14. do you have a tv, radio, do you venture off DU?

[ThatBozGuy]

16. Its getting about the same airtime as the "handshake snub" and look where that went.

Good luck with this when it Kaiser Sozes out from under you....by next Sunday or Monday .......Mark My words.

[cottonseed]

22. I've checked the tv a few times today and don't see much of it.

Honestly, I'm looking for it. There's not much there now or yesterday. I think the 527 argument makes sense, in that I agree it will be played again and again, but from what I'm seeing today and yesterday, there's not much there besides Morning Joe and Fox.

[Fluffdaddy]

36. No I don't think he does. There is a tidal wave coming our way

[PATRICK]

18. To listen to these

wildly competing, emphasize wildly, riffs on the rival candidate, the middle ground observer trying to make peace with both would conclude that we have a Mondale versus McGovern equally doomed choice, unequally beset with sexism and racism that makes the issue of competence and progressivism an invisible irrelevance. meanwhile, the phony choice of the fascist GOP propping a half dead Attila in propaganda and fraud we only use to the benefit of equally worthless, doomed choices.

The case is thus made that someone should be shot to Mars in a rocket, asap, and to listen to the whole insane mess, we all should be for the benefit of the surviving wild life.

We are not our pastors, even our admired ones. We are not theologians following their schools of thought. We are not going to be punished even for crimes he may have committed. We ARE guilty by association of being human and prone to some nonsense or other. The REAL story here is what exactly Obama takes from his pastor and what he does not. I would prefer, though it WOULD have pre-empted his career fast, that he kept his social justice anger perspective a little more tuned to the hypocrisy and corporate unsustainability that maddens the halls of contemporary sh*t dumb power. Call me a radical, but that is what we need in the really radical crises- all of them made infinitely more perilous for petty crap that plays off our most ill-informed and really dumb cynicism. This is precisely what Obama runs counter to, inspiring GOP dazed loons to feel comfortable with him. Unlike Bush, unfortunately, he is sincere in this attraction, although that sincerity will hopefully bear real fruits of sane service to further lead us all into daylight.

What do electability and vetting fears get us when they come from fans of either candidate? Nothing except a fallback to the plain truths and a lot of irritation. It still comes down to Hillary losing the primaries and scraping to get higher up the peak to the WH that she has much less hope now of obtaining with all the lost steam, all the prices paid, than HHH or any other fated loser. If the big loser is hope itself then Obama has no chance, but first hope itself must be slain and gutted and mounted as a trophy by the useless *&&^$^&* morons who infest too much of the power places of the world. Reganites in one ill-fated surge toward something beyond the fated paths put everything out of their minds except to go for the old second rate actor. Don't you think, MSM and power elites notwithstanding, that something infinitely more hopeful and genuine might do at least as well if the PEOPLE are permitted to surge beyond any pitifully small stuff like this?

Well, in this world you can't nominate Jesus Christ for President because he would be crucified. So let's all run away and hide again.

[BlackVelvet04]

20. You're absolutely right......

and Obama's action of staying in that church and with Wright as his mentor speaks louder than his empty words of unity.

[Fluffdaddy]

21. This is bad, This is really BAD. I don't know if we can bonce back from this

If we can not win in 2008, the left movement is fucked. The right wingnuts will stack the SC with one or two more judges and we will be on the short end of every vote for a generation..................This is fucked up :(

[cottonseed]

23. The left movement is fucked?

There really isn't much of a Left movement in this election. Even if Hillary installed I wouldn't consider that a Left movement.

[Forkboy]

24. A DLC avatar and concern over the left movement....

:eyes:

[Fluffdaddy]

27. That's right Forkboy, I'm concerned. Maybe this is a good thing

Now the Super delegates will know who to support. The Super delegates was created to avoid this kind of cluster fuck event.

[redqueen]

28. I don't know about you, but that just screams "sincerity" to me. (nt)

[Quixote1818]

25. For the first time in this campaign I am thinking Al Gore may be the way to go

If Obama can't clear this up then we will seriously need to start looking at Al Gore to save the party.

[Fluffdaddy]

29. Gore will not run

[Quixote1818]

32. I know, but the party could decide to give it to Gore if they think both Hillary and Obama

are too tainted and would struggle in the General election. If Hillary and Obama keep self destructing that could happen.

[JuniperLea]

26. Barack Obama has touted this man as his spiritual advisor

This is the scary part. I don't much care what church anyone belongs to or frequents. When they tout an obvious racist and hater as a spiritual advisor... that is some scary shit.

[Fluffdaddy]

31. This is a huge cluster fuck. Good thing the GOP showed their hand early enuff

For us to do a aboutface

[JuniperLea]

34. I've always felt they wanted Clinton to get the nod...

Because they know there's so much lingering Clinton hate around to motivate the GOP masses to get out the vote for McCain... even if they don't like him... even if it means four more years... they hate Clinton enough to rally against her.

I voted for Edwards... never liked Obama or Hillary much...

[Catherina]

30. Haha. What a doozy of a thread. Hillarites and DLCers are "concerned"

Piss on my leg and tell me it's raining :eyes:

[Fluffdaddy]

35. Because you O supporters refused to see the political world the way it is

I'm happy the O bubble has busted before it was to late for our party...............Deal with it.

[JuniperLea]

38. It's the Kool Aid...

Too much of that is poisonous... I think we are seeing a lot of its effects here now.

[DiceK]

33. MassDemm makes me so sleepy

MassDemm makes me so sleepy. Yawn. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[GoldieAZ49]

37. It certainly does put Michelle's comments into context

I agree, he cannot separate himself now without it being politically motivated, no one is going to believe him, or trust it after 20 years as the man's protege.

Words do matter after all

[Two Americas]

39. black power

Are we sure we want to make the general election a referendum on Black power and a radical left wing view of US imperialism? If so, I fully support that, but we had better start talking about how we are going to do that effectively and successfully.

It is extremely naive to think that this is not what is unfolding. If we are running on a platform of "transcending the divisions of the past" - which historically has meant silencing and disappearing the people and issues on one side of those divides: the powerless, the poor, the downtrodden and the persecuted - that is going to require putting a lot of distance between the pastor and the campaign, which may not be possible. Otherwise the hope and unity message is compromised.

I think that it is now very likely that we are going into the general with a weak campaign and a vulnerable candidate. Rather than ripping each other to shreds, why not accept the reality of the situation and work together to overcome the handicaps we are facing?

Obama is an amazingly talented politician and an exceptionally brilliant and charismatic man. Maybe he can work a miracle here. It is a big gamble.