Im losing my "Hope" over this Jeremiah Wright stuff

[BigD_95]

this isn't good. Its actually awful and now has me questioning Obama as a leader.

I don't understand how he could go to that church for the last 20 years. How did he have that guy marry him?

I got into a argument with my brother once because the church he went to did a hand out that basically was a Republican talking point. I would get up and leave any church that did anything like that even if it was pro Dem talking points. I also been to churches that said Pokemon was the Devil & Harry Potter teaches kids witch craft.

It took me a long time to find a church that I felt comfortable in and taking my kids too.

I just don't see how Obama can go to that church all that time, taking his kids there, unless he believes in what the Jeremiah Wright is preaching. If he says he rejects those words then why wasn't he strong enough to leave the church?

This has seriously made me take a 2nd hard look at Obama. None of the other crap I heard bothered me at all and I was completely on board with the movement.

I'm now really confused and I'm not sure what to do on April 22. ( I live in PA ). I don't think after all what Hillary has done I could go back to her but this really makes me uncomfortable. I guess, I will wait to see how this all plays out but this really bugs me.

On top of all that the Republican hate machine will be all over this and I honestly believe that this could cost Obama a general election win. If I was Hillary, with this out there. I don't think even if she somehow came back and got the nominee; that should should even pick Obama know.

This Jeremiah Wright thing will hit home hard with a lot of people.

Please Obama supports give me some spin so I feel better. Im really depressed today.....

[Oleladylib]

1. Do not be influenced, affected whatever by the media from now on..

I know that is a pipe dream..but we have to start listening to the candidates themselves ..both of them..I don't want to "read" what they said even in a written statement..that's too polished, rethought..I want to HEAR there answers ..to their positions on our economy, the war, international presence..environment..everything.

[shadowknows69]

12. Who are you and what have you done with Oleladylib

[Steely_Dan]

111. Good Luck With That....n/t

[JenPen98]

160. So are you saying this did not happen

IS that what you are saying!

[tekisui]

2. First off, Wright is not running for anything.

Obama doesn't say those things, and Obama has already stated he doesn't agree with everything that Wright says.

Obama needs to get out there and head this off, before it goes on. But, once this cycles out, it will be a dead issue. Better now than in October.

It will upset a lot of people, but can still be handled. Obama's campaign knew this could be a liability, they should be prepared for it. I trust they are, and we'll know soon enough.

[moobu2]

20. Barack can't get out there and head this off

He shouldn’t have associated with this preacher for 20 years if he didn’t condone what the guy said.

[tekisui]

22. No, he could go worship someplace else.

How about a list of which religious institutions are acceptable?

Freedom of religion, as long as that religion is not Islam, Trinity, what else?

[moobu2]

36. This is about the content of Wrights sermons and Baracks 20 year relationship with Wright.

[SeaLyons]

23. he cannot denounce

something he has been associated with for his entire adult life. This will not be a dead issue for him in the general election. You're kidding yourself.

[tekisui]

27. He can easily denounce those statements he doesn't agree with.

No one agrees with anyone on everything.

[jackson_dem]

164. He could have denounced them then but didn't

Doing it now based on polls won't help him much since everyone will be able to see right through it.

[madrchsod]

96. we have to have a "politically correct" christian candidate ?

but who is going to determine what is a "politically correct christian"?

[BigDDem]

48. "once this cycles out, it will be a dead issue"

are you new to politics?

The republicans are having wet dreams about this.
Dead issue, right. (Wright)

[tekisui]

49. The pukes are loving it, to be sure.

They are also wishing it came out in October.

[backscatter712]

55. They tried with Rezko.

Sure, Rezko's a sleaze, but they couldn't make anything stick.

They won't be able to make anything stick with Wright either.

Because fundamentally,

Obama did not do anything wrong.

So he gave money to his church. Big deal. Everyone gives money to church.

So he listened to sermons. Everybody has listened to a pastor that went off the deep end once in a while.

So he had some chats with him.

So fucking what.

Prove Obama's wrongdoing.

[BadgerLaw2010]

74. You seriously think you've heard the last about Rezko?

[backscatter712]

91. Oh, they'll keep bringing it up.

And we'll keep dismissing it.

If Hillary can survive all her accusations and GOP swiftboating, if Bush can survive Plame-gate even though he and his staff have committed acts of TREASON, if McCain can shrug off Iseman and all the "in bed with lobbyist" jokes, Obama can shrug off Rezko and Wright.

Obama would have to be caught in bed with a dead girl or live boy to lose at this point, and Rezko and Wright just are weak sauce.

[knixphan]

129. thank you.

[ginnyinWI]

75. I'd go even further than saying he doesn't agree.

I'd say that everything Obama stands for is exactly the opposite of the preaching of Rev. Wright. Where Wright divides, Obama unites. Where Wright is emotional, Obama is calm and reasonable. He's not running to be the leader of Black America, he's running to be the leader of a united America of all colors and creeds. In a way, it will get people thinking about this--how Obama is not your typical angry black leader. He may come out of this in a better light. He knows all too well that the worst thing he can do is to do or say anything to fall into that stereotype, and luckily he's got the even temperament of a true statesman. We can have confidence that he'll continue to be this way going forward.

People aren't so stupid as to believe that the two men are the same (except for the ones who aren't voting for Obama anyway--those already too prejudiced to vote for someone who is black). So not to worry! This storm system will have moved on in a few days. HRC supporters who are exulting right now will also have to move on. It's material for the cable news shows, but that's about it. Let's just keep our cool and wait for it to pass. TGIF!

[JenPen98]

161. You are wrong

He may not be on his campaign, but he is on Obama campaign.

[purji]

3. when the dust settles

and it will. the stupid muslim meme wont work as well.

[Joe the Revelator]

4. Another PRETEND Obama "supporter" jumping ship

All of these posts sound alike. You're not fooling anybody.

[BigD_95]

16. Dont tell me Im a pretend

Obama "supporter"


I freaking went to his Campaign meeting in PA last week and signed up to do phone booking!

The reason this bugs me is because I left churches because of what was being said. My question is why wouldnt he leave?

[PVnRT]

21. Some of the partisans around here

assume that low post count = troll.

[musicblind]

93. Don't let him bother you.

he's more on the fringe of this board... and that is saying something.

If you were a Hillary supporter expressing concern about one of her missteps he would never make such a suggestion.

[Metric System]

123. You are either with ObamaNation, or you're against it. Seriously, I wish people would wake up to the

lack of dissent allowed by his supporters. We Clinton supporters have different viewpoints, but you don't see us jumping all over each other whenever we disagree. I think maybe the difference is that we know Hillary is a politician and has her flaws, but Obama supporters truly want to believe (and hope) that he isn't like all the rest. Once they wake up and realize he is just a politician, maybe they'll tolerate some dissent from within.

[democrattotheend]

70. These are legit concerns. Let's try to answer them instead of demonize

We are not going to win back those who are having doubts by demonizing them. I have some concerns too. It does not change my opinion of Obama at all, and I don't believe he shares Wright's views about race relations. But it is a concern in terms of perception in the general election.

Demonizing those who are having doubts are just going to push them away.

[annie1]

5. Malcolm X said the same kind of things. and i would have gone to his church any day of the week. : )

hope that helps.

(and i'm for hil)

[Apollo11]

60. Would you have won the Whitehouse against John McCain?

:eyes:

[ginnyinWI]

81. I wouldn't worry about that.

He's got Hagee and several other far right fundies on his side so he won't be able to talk. And as for the Catholic Church he belongs to--well they don't exactly stand in such a strong position lately either.

[shimmergal]

156. WHO belongs to a Catholic Church?

No one of the remaining candidates, to my knowledge.

[MadBadger]

6. Think abotu what you are doing, basing your support upon religion.

[lligrd]

7. Why Did Nobody Have A Problem With These Preachers

when they were supporting Hillary? It wasn't that long ago.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

99. And why the sudden attention being paid to Obama's preacher? Right after Ferraro came out with her

bigotted statements. Where have we seen these sort of tactics before? Can you say "Swiftboating"?

[Altair]

8. Agree,you show white America video of his church cheering 9-11 and it's over

we all know he doesn't share those views, but the video is so inflammatory that it's not survivable. And I say that after having a couple nights to sleep on it.

[noel711]

39. I preached a similar sermon post 9-11...

some folks didn't like it , but they didn't
ride me out of time on a rail.

Those were emotional times.

We can't assume that all of Wright's sermons
were just as imflammatory.To think that all he preaches
and does is simplistic.

And between you and me, I WANT to belong to a
church like that.. a church that focuses a lazer light
on what is wrong with this world.

[Hissyspit]

67. He doesn't cheer 9/11. n/t

[ginnyinWI]

87. People are not that stupid. They really aren't.

I don't know any white people who would dismiss Obama on the basis of what his former pastor says! Even my right-wing parents wouldn't. This is another attack that isn't going to stick. In a week it can be added to the list of political attacks Obama's survived.

As I said in a reply above, anybody who is that stupid won't vote for Obama anyway.

[underpants]

9. Watch this 3:25 video of the current preacher

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x105183

[Altair]

10. That won't be the video the Swiftboaters show on election eve

[underpants]

24. I don't care what they show on election eve

Welcome to DU :hi:

We need to stop worrying about what those crybabies do or are going to do and just do what WE are going to do.

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. Michelle said the same things her preacher did

on many occasions.

[annie1]

13. that's going to be the biggest problem for him. putting statements he made...

next to statements she made is going to look really bad to people. not to *me* for the same reasons it'll bother others, but that's just the way it's going to go down.

[shadowknows69]

15. Proof?

[SeaLyons]

25. Yes, the teachings of that church

are ingrained in the Obama's. They agree with it or they would not attend the church. Michelle does not hide it as well as Obama does.

[redstate_democrat]

148. Hey

Hillary and Bill Clinton are racist because they made race baiting statements, they are friends with VILE racists, they accept money from VILE racists, they talk to VILE racists, and Hillary's FATHER was a COMPLETE AND UTTER RACIST.

How's that for ya.

[From The Left]

14. Hillary Could Use a New Supporter. Run Along Now

[SeaLyons]

28. I'm afraid millions

will run along now....you should be concerned about it too!!!

[From The Left]

35. That's Why Obama Has Won More States and More Delegates

[SeaLyons]

125. We'll see how many more he gets

[nomaco-10]

31. Some Obama supporters should quit being so.....

glib and dismissive to those of us that are concerned about this issue of the minister. We are not hillary supporters, we merely have a concern about the way this is being received in the MSM. Yes, the mainstream media, not everybody in america hangs here in GD-P.

[BeyondGeography]

17. First, you need to learn more about all the hateful things Wright does with his 6,000-member church

Here's a few:

Ministries:

ACTIVE SENIORS AND FRIENDS - are members and friends who are 55 years of age and older. They meet regularly for Bible study and fellowship. They participate in quarterly outings for inspiration and recreation, and provide ongoing care and keeping of other seniors.

ADOPT-A-STUDENT MINISTRY - is focused on trying to retain college students who have gone away from home and are studying at universities and colleges out of the city and state. Importantly, this ministry assures our college students that they: 1) belong to God, and 2) have a church home that cares about them.

AFRICA MINISTRY - promotes, educates and advocates issues concerning Africans in Africa and the Diaspora. Opportunities shall be provided for education, travel, fellowship, economic development, missionary work, financial support, and health education.

ATHLETES FOR CHRIST - welcomes young men and women to build their physical strengths through participation in Christian sport activities.

CAN-CER-VIVE - supports members and friends who are survivors, and/or are presently overcoming and/or encountering the many faces of cancer. The ministry plans and conducts seminars/workshops designed to explore and inform its members about matters of diet, grooming, spiritual support, care-giving/receiving and recreational activities.

CAREER DEVELOPMENT - provides information, training and job fairs to enable unemployed and underemployed members to compete and upgrade their employability for jobs with employers seeking "good" employees.

CARIBBEAN CONNECTION - This ministry is our Afrocentric congregation's attempt to educate our North American members about the many aspects of the Caribbean culture. These aspects include the cuisine, the peoples, the countries, the customs, and the religion of our Lord as practiced in the various Caribbean places.

CHURCH IN SOCIETY - (CIS) - continually seeks ways and opportunities to educate, inform and empower the congregation and community to understand, identify and to be effective advocates for social justice policies that better our lives and our world.

CHURCH SCHOOL - meets Saturday mornings and provides Bible instructions in classes for pre-school through adults.

COMMITTEE FOR CHURCH IN SOCIETY (CIS) - works to establish Christian principles in the economic, social and political aspects of our church and community life.

COUNSELING MINISTRY -Masters Degree Holders in counseling or related professions, enable Church members to receive private, Christian counseling in matters of individual, family, group and/or grief crises.

DANCE MINISTRY - includes children, youth, men and women who are taught the principles of modern dance, ballet, and interpretive dance. They are also taught the African roots of dance in worship and the biblical basis for praising God with dance!

Children's Dance - 7-9 years old
Pre Teen Dance - 10-12 years old
High School Dance - 13-18 years old
Adult Dance - Adult Men & Women
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE ADVOCACY/CARE MINISTRY - provides Christian support, love and comfort to persons involved in emotional and physically abusive relationships, with husbands/wives, boyfriends/girlfriends or family members.

DRAMA MINISTRY - nurtures the innate abilities of expression present in all of our children and youth as they learn to communicate on the stage to the world.

DRILL TEAM - promotes an understanding of scripture, encourages academic excellence, heightens cultural awareness, fosters self-discipline and develops self-esteem.

Youth Drill Team - 13-18 years old
Women's Drill Team - adult women
Men's Drill Team - adult men
DRUG & ALCOHOL RECOVERY MINISTRY - meets each week with recovering members, their families and friends. Members Member's are encouraged to participate in Christian support groups which acknowledge that only "if the Son (of God) shall set you free, you shall be free, indeed."

EMMAUS ROAD MINISTRY - provides companions, prayer partners, helpers and friends for grieving persons, months after the passing of a loved one. Ongoing contact with the family is maintained.

FINE ARTS & LITERARY GUILD - informs the church family about artistic and cultural events focusing on African and African American heritage.

FOOD SHARE MINISTRY - provides fresh and canned food baskets on a monthly basis for the Hungry, the Homeless, and the Less Fortunate.

GIRL SCOUTS - involve young girls 9 - 17 years of age in the experience of scouting within our Afrocentric Christian environment.

GREETERS MINISTRY - welcome visitors and members to worship and special services.

HEALING MINISTRY - offers the laying on of hands to all who request prayer for healing of spirit, soul or body.

HEALTH ADVISORY MINISTRY - is dedicated to the prevention and treatment of physical and mental illnesses. HAB strives to inform and educate our members and community about "cutting edge" health issues.

HIGH SCHOOL COUNSELING - supports high school students to enhance their educational progress.

HIV/AIDS MINISTRY - offers comfort through support, education, and training for individuals, families and friends impacted by HIV and AIDS. Training Required.

HOSPITALITY MINISTRY - hosts family repasts, in-house ministry receptions and rolls out the "red carpet", for visitors gathered within our gates.

HOUSING MINISTRY - sponsors seminars to inform the church and community families about tax sales, "how to..." avoid foreclosure; purchase HUD homes; finance mortgages; etc.

INTERNAL SECURITY MINISTRY - provide security for the pastoral staff, members and V.I.P.'s. Additionally, the ministry assists ministries with securing funds when necessary and when offerings are received. Training Required.

INTONJANE - Swahili for "Coming into Womanhood" is a formal Rites of Passage program for young women, ages 8-18 years old. The program involves each participant in inspiring Christian, cultural and social awareness exercises.

ISUTHU - Swahili for "Coming into Manhood" is a formal Rites of Passage program for young men, ages 8-18 years old. The program involves each participant in inspiring Christian, cultural and social awareness exercises.

INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY MINISTRY - Information Technology Ministry (IT Ministry) provides Information and Technology related services to the church community.

KUJICHAGULIA - The 2nd principle of the Nguzo Saba, meaning "Self-Determination;" provides resources, networking and hands-on assistance to persons who are physically, mentally, and/or emotionally challenged.

LEGAL COUNSELING - The Legal Counseling Ministry nurtures the spiritual growth and development of Christian attorneys and other legal professionals, and provides legal assistance to the Trinity community.


MARRIED COUPLES - provide Christian context and insights for couples who are committed to building and maintaining Christian homes.

MATH TUTORIAL - involves elementary age youth in the rigorous discipline needed to increase their understanding of mathematical concepts.

MEDIA MINISTRY - provides services related to the audio, visual, print, photography and telecommunications. Subcommittees included in this ministry are:

Audio Recording
Audio Sound
Photography
Publications
Tape Sales & Duplication
Video Recording & Lights
MEN'S CELL GROUPS - provides a "safe place" for our brothers to "be themselves", sharing their joys and fears, defeats and victories, breaking down the age-old stereotype that says, "Men can't/don't pray."

MEN'S FELLOWSHIP - follow the traditional model of men in the church who are concerned about healthy and wholesome living with Christ at the center of their pilgrimage.

MILLION FOR THE MASTER - implements programs and services that promote the spiritual, economic, social and political viability of the African American community, focusing on bringing the church into the community and bringing the community into the church.

MINISTRY SERVICES - the mission of the Ministry Services Department is to serve the congregation, staff and Pastor in a responsive manner. To create partnerships between ministries and staff that fulfills the overall mission of the Pastor, Executive Minister and Church.

MUSIC MINISTRIES - God has richly blessed us to have a staff of professionally trained, Christian musicians who devotedly teach choir members to make an offering of their voices. Trinity's Music Department is made up of six choirs:

Imani Ya Watume - Swahili meaning "Messengers of Faith" (high school choir)
Little Warriors for Christ - age six years old through 8th grade.
Men's Chorus - over 90 participants (adult men)
Sanctuary Choir - over 200 participants (adult men and adult women)
Women's Chorus - over 200 participants (adult women)
Walaika - 3 to 5 year olds
NEWNESS OF LIFE -encourages new member candidates to begin their journey by providing informational and inspirational materials.

PRISON MINISTRY - visits the prisons every week of the year! To provide tutorial support and to engage the inmates in rap sessions and training programs.

PROJECT JEREMIAH - provides Christian role models and mentors for the boys and girls in elementary schools each week.

READING TUTORIAL - provides educational experiences through tutoring in reading for elementary school students.

SIGN LANGUAGE INTERPRETERS MINISTRY - provides interpreting and transliterating service so that hearing impaired people can become full participants in the shared worship experience, Bible study and other activities.

SINGLES COMMUNITY MINISTRY - addresses unique issues facing single Christian adults.

Never Married
Divorced
Widowed
Single Parent
Same Gender Loving
Upcoming Events
SISTERHOOD - provides an atmosphere where adult women build trust and explore ways to renew their strength for facing and resolving difficulties.

STEWARDSHIP COUNCIL - oversees the New Member orientation, administers the benevolence budget of the church, and assists with the financial needs of members who are enrolled in accredited seminaries.

Tangeni Adult Dance Ministry

Ministry Purpose/Objectives
The purpose of this ministry shall be to praise God in dance. In keeping with the church’s motto of being “Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian,” we recognize that praise and worship in dance is both an expression of our heritage and an acknowledgement of our faith. Tangeni, as led by the spirit, shall provide fellowship and nurturing to its members through devotion during rehearsals, seminars, retreats and other related activities. Tangeni provides an opportunity for its members to enhance and use their spiritual gifts in order that we may minister unto the church universal and the community at large


TAPE VISITATION MINISTRY - enhances the overall ministry of sick visitation by personally carrying services of worship (audio cassettes) to members and extended family who are hospitalized, shut-in at home and/or extended care facilities.

TRINITY COMPUTER LEARNING CENTER
Trinity Computer Learning Center (TCLC) is a faith-based training facility for Trinity United Church of Christ and the community at large using computer technology to help cross the digital divide.

USHER BOARD - are the doorkeepers in the house of the Lord. Include are:

Youth - 8-12 years old
Young Adult - 13-18 years old
Adult - Men and Women
VILLAGE KEEPERS - ensure that members are safely escorted to and from their cars and in between the 532, 421 and 400 buildings. They provide a presence of protection and security.

WOMEN'S GUILD - is the volunteer corps for the residents of the two Trinity sponsored senior residences.

YOGA MINISTRY - helps participants maintain physical, mental and spiritual fitness.

YOUNG ADULT MINISTRY - nurtures Christians between the ages of 18 and 35 by addressing issues and concerns of young African American Christian adults; and provides a bridge over which teenagers transition into adulthood.

YOUNG WOMEN'S CHRISTIAN WALK - provides character development from a Christian perspective. Activities are supportive of and sensitive to developing cultural and spiritual awareness.

YOUTH CHURCH MINISTRY PARTNERS - are committed to teaching children ages 3-10 years of age about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Through the use of Christian Education materials, music, prayers, and crafts, your child can participate in an atmosphere that is designed to teach them all the elements of worship. 3-year olds must be potty-trained and not wearing pull-ups. Space is limited to a first-come first-served basis at the 7:30 am and 11:00 am services. The space is also limited by the capacity of the classrooms for your child's particular age group.

http://www.tucc.org/ministries.htm

[SeaLyons]

34. All well and good, but none of it

changes the hate that comes out of his mouth. He's an extremist, and anything extreme is wrong!

[nolabels]

68. Yea, you're probably right, all those things on the agenda, they probably do want to damn.......

:rofl:

[SeaLyons]

18. Obama supporters

can keep their head in the sand regarding this issue, but this is a great big red flag. If you did not connect with the words of your pastor, you would not attend the church. It's that simple. You can call him a weird uncle, whatever! No way would you bring your children to a church that spouts hate towards whites and America, if you didn't feel it. The pastor is radical and so is the church, and the republicans are going to have a hay day with it, and frankly, this one issue will turn millions off. It's scarey. That's all there is to it. Obama has not separated himself from this pastor because he can't. He cannot wash away 20 years of association and convince the American people he does not agree with the teachings of that church.

[PVnRT]

33. Really? How is the church radical?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/church.asp

From the article, a quote from a member of the University of Chicago's Divinity School:

So Trinity is "Africentric," and deals internationally and ecumenically with the heritage of "black is beautiful." Despite what one sometimes hears, Wright and his parishioners — an 8,000-member mingling of everyone from the disadvantaged to the middle class, and not a few shakers and movers in Chicago are "keepin' the faith." To those in range of Chicago TV I'd recommend a watching of Trinity's Sunday services, and challenge you to find anything "cultic" or "sectarian" about them. More important, for Trinity, being "unashamedly black" does not mean being "anti-white." My wife and I on occasion attend, and, like all other non-blacks, are enthusiastically welcomed.

Please explain to me why a "radical" black church would welcome whites to attend.

[Texas Hill Country]

89. OMG - read...

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/SB120545277093135111.html


In a sermon delivered at Howard University, Barack Obama's longtime minister, friend and adviser amed America for starting the AIDS virus, training professional killers, importing drugs and creating a racist society that would never elect a black candidate president.

The Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., pastor of Mr. Obama's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, gave the sermon at the school's Andrew Rankin Memorial Chapel in Washington on Jan. 15, 2006.

"We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he began. "Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."

Mr. Wright thundered on: "America is still the No. 1 killer in the world. . . . We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns, and the training of professional killers . . . We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children while trying to get public opinion turned against Castro and Ghadhafi . . . We put Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there. We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."

His voice rising, Mr. Wright said, "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. . . . We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. . . ."

Concluding, Mr. Wright said: "We started the AIDS virus . . . We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty. . . ."

Considering this view of America, it's not surprising that in December Mr. Wright's church gave an award to Louis Farrakhan for lifetime achievement. In the church magazine, Trumpet, Mr. Wright spoke glowingly of the Nation of Islam leader. "His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening," Mr. Wright said of Mr. Farrakhan. "He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest."

After Newsmax broke the story of the award to Farrakhan on Jan. 14, Mr. Obama issued a statement. However, Mr. Obama ignored the main point: that his minister and friend had spoken adoringly of Mr. Farrakhan, and that Mr. Wright's church was behind the award to the Nation of Islam leader.

Instead, Mr. Obama said, "I decry racism and anti-Semitism in every form and strongly condemn the anti-Semitic statements made by Minister Farrakhan. I assume that Trumpet magazine made its own decision to honor Farrakhan based on his efforts to rehabilitate ex-offenders, but it is not a decision with which I agree." Trumpet is owned and produced by Mr. Wright's church out of the church's offices, and Mr. Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor.

Meeting with Jewish leaders in Cleveland on Feb. 24, Mr. Obama described Mr. Wright as being like "an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don't agree with." He rarely mentions the points of disagreement.

Mr. Obama went on to explain Mr. Wright's anti-Zionist statements as being rooted in his anger over the Jewish state's support for South Africa under its previous policy of apartheid. As with his previous claim that his church gave the award to Mr. Farrakhan because of his work with ex-offenders, Mr. Obama appears to have made that up.

Neither the presentation of the award nor the Trumpet article about the award mentions ex-offenders, and Mr. Wright's statements denouncing Israel have not been qualified in any way. Mr. Obama nonetheless told the Jewish leaders that the award to Mr. Farrakhan "showed a lack of sensitivity to the Jewish community." That is an understatement.

As for Mr. Wright's repeated comments blaming America for the 9/11 attacks because of what Mr. Wright calls its racist and violent policies, Mr. Obama has said it sounds as if the minister was trying to be "provocative."

Hearing Mr. Wright's venomous and paranoid denunciations of this country, the vast majority of Americans would walk out. Instead, Mr. Obama and his wife Michelle have presumably sat through numerous similar sermons by Mr. Wright.

Indeed, Mr. Obama has described Mr. Wright as his "sounding board" during the two decades he has known him. Mr. Obama has said he found religion through the minister in the 1980s. He joined the church in 1991 and walked down the aisle in a formal commitment of faith.

The title of Mr. Obama's bestseller "The Audacity of Hope" comes from one of Wright's sermons. Mr. Wright is one of the first people Mr. Obama thanked after his election to the Senate in 2004. Mr. Obama consulted Mr. Wright before deciding to run for president. He prayed privately with Mr. Wright before announcing his candidacy last year.

Mr. Obama obviously would not choose to belong to Mr. Wright's church and seek his advice unless he agreed with at least some of his views. In light of Mr. Wright's perspective, Michelle Obama's comment that she feels proud of America for the first time in her adult life makes perfect sense.

Much as most of us would appreciate the symbolism of a black man ascending to the presidency, what we have in Barack Obama is a politician whose closeness to Mr. Wright underscores his radical record.

The media have largely ignored Mr. Obama's close association with Mr. Wright. This raises legitimate questions about Mr. Obama's fundamental beliefs about his country. Those questions deserve a clearer answer than Mr. Obama has provided so far.

[PVnRT]

103. That's Rev. Wright, not the church

Try again.

[SeaLyons]

132. There it is....

and I find it frightening as hell!!!

[SeaLyons]

130. Oh, well I guess the clips

they're playing round the clock of his hate filled rants are just a figment of one's imagination. After hearing it, not sure that I would feel very welcome sitting in the audience. To each is own.

[butterfly77]

61. My head was never in the sand..

I have always known about his pastor have never had a problem with him. I have been posting for a while now that the repugs would be airing this. I say better now than later.

There is nothing new, I have been searching for months now for videos on Mr.Wright with nothing but one video turning up on youtube. Now youtube is being flooded to frighten people who like to deny the truth and who obviously are living in some other world..

[SeaLyons]

133. I don't understand your post..

are you saying those of us that have concern about the Pastor are living in another world?

[C_U_L8R]

19. oh dear, everyone run... it's a screaming black man

please show some fortitude will ya ??

We're much better than this.

[durrrty libby]

26. You forgot the "Hate Spewing " part. How convenient

[C_U_L8R]

29. Well God Damn.

[durrrty libby]

50. Yep, That is a direct quote of the pastor. I think it goes."God Damn America"

[C_U_L8R]

51. Yeah he did say that and he was talking about you

[durrrty libby]

54. And millions of voters too. They will get the message.Good for him.

[Texas Hill Country]

92. Don't forget about the CIA gave black people crack, started AIDS, is to blame for 9/11...

and a number of other super tinfoil hat themes.

[SeaLyons]

32. Oh dear,,,,it's a radical screaming hate filled monger....

spousing hatred for Americans - just get over it and support Obama...

:sarcasm:

[C_U_L8R]

38. shame on you.. you should know better

[SeaLyons]

134. Trust me, I do

,,,and shame back to ya!

[peace frog]

30. Well, alllllllrighty then

Let's all just:
1. Give up, surrender, grovel, piss and moan, throw in the towel, fuhgeddaboudit, we can't win, it's useless, resistance is futile, McCain as the next president is inevitable, Democratic candidates don't stand a chance, etc ad nauseum --- OR ---

2. NOT.

I'll take Door# 2, Monty.

[my3boyz]

37. Well, I'm not going to beg you to vote for Obama. If you can't see

with your own two eyes that Obama is a better choice than Hillary then go join the Hillbots.

[Submariner]

40. Another reason to ban religion from the face of the earth

As long as the world of make believe, imaginary sky-people, and these pastors of any denomination are allowed to be factored into the reality of daily life, we will continue to have these silly irrational divides. Grow up people. Stop going to these churches and stop giving them your money to make them survive. They are lying to you, even though they don't know it themselves.

[rox63]

41. Your "concern" has been duly noted

:eyes:

[noel711]

42. Look at the big picture...

How could Obama attend that church for 20 year?How could he marry
the couple?

Most of us pastors aren't inflamed with passion in the pulpit
every Sunday. This is the exception.

And for twenty years? I'd say that's a faithful committed member.
That congregation has something to offer to support people
who are thus involved.

Marry them? I've never ever had a couple who were interested in
marriage ask me for a theological 'purity' test.
And marriage is a totally different concept.

People are being very sensitive about things that don't matter.

This is an African AMerican preacher in prophetic mode.

Do yourself a favor: Worship in a Black church this weekend.
Experience that side of the altar.

[SeaLyons]

137. I have attended Black Churches

and been filled with the love of God, felt their love, and enjoyed their music (actually I love their music). I don't think I would come away from Obama's church feeling all that happy.

[DeeDeeNY]

43. This is not relevant to his presidential qualifications NT

[BigD_95]

44. Im not running to Hillary

but we are lying to ourselves if you dont think this matters. Hell, Im a Obama supporter and it bugs me. What if I were on t he fence? I dont think we can just blow this off. This guy will be played over and over. Then he will be on talk shows probably making matters worse. This is just a sad day for me.

Maybe I will be happy Ralph Nader is running again. ; (

[gtar100]

45. Let's see how he handles it and go from there.

This may be his proving ground. Let's see how well he can handle the worst of accusations - guilt by association.

Anyone with half a brain still open can see that the whole issue is BS. But we're dealing with a lot of stupid people who won't get past the three words "god damn America". Too bad for them for being such fools. And too bad for us as a species for allowing such stupidity to grow so large.

Let's see how he handles it. Those with an agenda to tear him down will do what they can to dismiss *anything* he says. But we have a choice not to be that dumb right now. And let's raise the level of expectation on each other so we don't always sink to the lowest common denominator.

[SeaLyons]

138. Associations in life matter...

I think it's very arrogant to say anyone who questions this rather serious association is dumb or has an agenda.

[burythehatchet]

46. Once you lose your "hope", they will welcome you at Camp Hopeless n/t

[chitty]

47. This has the

potential to do much harm.

Thinking anything less is fantasy land.

Barack needs to grab this thing by the balls and squelch it right now.

Ignoring it will not make it go away.

[uponit7771]

52. What did Wright say that in that sermon that wasn't true!?!?!?!?

[chitty]

53. Forget true

we're dealing with Joe Sixpack here.

The can't handle the truth.

[high density]

56. My parents took me to Catholic church

It doesn't mean they subscribed to every little thing coming off of the pulpit... Give me a break.

[chitty]

84. I agree

but you don't win elections based on just what you think.

I personally know a lot of people that would be offended by what Wright said.

And there's enough people, whether offended or not, will try to use this against Barack.

[LTR]

57. Here's some hope: Nobody's talking about the pastor thing

I went on the major news sites. I went on Yahoo! I went on Drudge.

Seems the pastor dilemma is only controversial on DU. Nobody else seems to care.

Granted, I don't watch much news on TV, so I don't know what's going on there.

Moral of the story: DU'ers panic too much.

[QC]

64. "Jeremiah Wright" gets 486 hits on Google News. n/t

[displacedtexan]

66. 606,000 Google hits

Nobody's talking about the pastor thing?

[LTR]

76. Check out these pages

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
http://www.cnn.com/
http://abcnews.go.com/
http://news.yahoo.com/
http://www.npr.org/
http://news.google.com/
http://www.nytimes.com/

See anything on the front page? Though so. Only MSNBC has a slight mention.

The people who are making the biggest stink about it are wingnut blowhards and delusional Shrillbots.

[QC]

80. Top story on the ABC News site yesterday.

I agree that it's not that big a deal, but it's the purest silliness to think that others, like the GOP, will agree. This story probably cannot be wished away.

[LTR]

83. Yes, but see anything today?

I looked around the front page. Nada.

Obviously, this story is quickly fading. Except of course for DU.

As for me, is it really realistic that Obama, or anyone for example, has to answer for EVERYTHING his supporters say?

[musicblind]

102. really? Its on the front page of cnn right now

"Obama's minister's firey words draw fire" is the exact headline. Don't know about the others.

[LTR]

104. Oh gee, a small buried headline

Where are the others?

And here's one to keep an eye on. Yahoo!'s most popular stories:

http://tinyurl.com/25dc2d

The closest we get is this one:

http://tinyurl.com/2ej2vb

Wright is buried deep down in the article, and only gets a brief mention.

Again, the biggest stink about this is being made by Hillary supporters on DU with feelings of faux outrage.

EDIT: converted to tinyurl

[musicblind]

109. It is in the same list at the very top of the page where all the other featured headlines are?

Where did you expect cnn to put it? Some place where they DON'T put today's featured headlines???

[LTR]

110. You said it yourself

Not a featured headline.

[musicblind]

120. It is in the list of featured headlines. where did I say it was not. the featured headline changes

constantly through out the day based on how recently it was added. Geesh.

[LTR]

143. That it is

But it's merely just a headline in a list of headlines.

[musicblind]

146. It is on the main page amongst the featured headlines. and it WAS the featured headline

on the political wing of cnn. If you do not think that people are hearing about this you are being foolish. We need to address this quick and precise. Ignoring things makes it worse.

The point I made, was your original post SAID it was not on the front page of any of those sites. I happened to be on CNN . com at the time and noticed that it was and was not down near the bottom but was up at the top with their 6 or 7 featured articles. I think anyone who has been to cnn's site on a regular basis would understand what is and is not one of the featured articles of the moment. Somehow featured articles cannot be plural? Do you only consider a featured article to be THE most recently added article... which would generally be the one at the top of the list and that one gets a picture to the right? I think that all of the "featured articles" would be featured articles. Either way... it IS or was when all this started (I have not been back to cnn today) still prominently listed as an article on cnn's front page. You had said it was not on CNN's front page at all in your original post. I am pointing that out.

[SeaLyons]

140. You're wrong,....

this is a big deal and will not just go away. The RW will not let this go away. It may die down, but trust me....it will be front and center in November.

[LTR]

144. Yeah, I'm sure you'd love that

[SeaLyons]

149. You're wrong again...

I want to see a democrat in the White House. That should be your goal too.

[LTR]

150. Yeah, you're doing a pretty good job of that

:eyes:

[displacedtexan]

142. Here you go...

More from the headlines

Michael Weiss, http://www.slate.com/id/2186599/]Wright or Wrong, Slate, March 13, 2008.

Chris Suellentrop, http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/a-sermon-echoing-around-obama/?ref=opinion]Opinion: A Sermon’s Echoes Threaten Obama, New York Times, March 13, 2008.

Brit Hume, http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,337748,00.html]Barack Obama's Pastor Says Black People Should Not Sing 'God Bless America', Fox News, March 13, 2008.

Jodi Kantor, http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/the-wright-controversy/]The Wright Controversy, New York Times, March 13, 2008.

Suzanne Goldenberg, http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/14/barackobama.hillaryclinton Pastor's hellfire sermons put Obama's campaign in hot water, The Guardian (UK), March 14, 2008.

Kristin Chapman, http://www.worldontheweb.com/2008/03/14/pastor-problems/]Pastor problems, World on the Web, March 14, 2008.

Bruce Caldwell, http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_123915.asp]The Politics of Hate, The Chattanoogan, March 14, 2008.

Ed Morrisey, http://hotair.com/archives/2008/03/14/2007-profile-wright-provides-spiritual-guidance-for-obama-oprah/]2007 Profile: Wright provides “spiritual guidance” for Obama, Oprah, Hot Air, March 14, 2008.

[LTR]

145. Are these front-and-center on page 1?

How would normal, apolitical and independent people see these?

My point is, would they really care?

Keep in mind, normal everyday people don't get their daily headlines by doing Google searches.

[Omega3]

58. I thought the Dem party didn't want religious zealots in office, we've got one now!! how proud must

all you Obots be!!!!!


Omega3: white European and the source of all hatred in the world

PS: America invented AIDS

[displacedtexan]

118. I have the same problem with Falwell, Dobson, et al.

Anyone spewing hate from a pulpit is not my idea of a mentor.

[formernaderite]

59. it's a problem when a preacher says god damn in church

I remember this from my childhood. As an atheist it doesn't actually offend me...but unless church has changed a lot in thirty years...I can't imagine most churchy people understanding this. Heck, one of the first things I ever got slapped by my mother for...was using gods name in vain. That and the sexual innuendo...kinda strange. Someone enlighten me...is this what church is like now?

[stevenleser]

62. McCain has already said that this is not an appropriate line of attack on Obama

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/14/75418/1294

As I said in another thread, it is sad when a Republican has to lecture Democrats on inappropriate politics of personal destruction.

[Omega3]

65. dailykos: obama rag and propaganda machine, white Europeans are the devil, America invented AIDS,

[stevenleser]

79. So are you saying the excerpt posted there is a lie?

[tinrobot]

69. Who said McCain has to attack Obama?

The attacks will be made with or without McCain saying the words.

Bush didn't ever "attack" Kerry on the swift boat issue using his own words, for example, but the attacks were still made.

[stevenleser]

82. Please, be honest, McCain has been much more adamant on this

[NDambi]

73. McCain is smart....Hillary hasn't said a word because she wants it to work for her

McCain..pivots in a beautiful way...smart

He'll end up winning at this rate..

The republican candidate speaks out..but the Dem candidate doesn't it?

Hmmmm

[BadgerLaw2010]

77. And Bush didn't endorse the Swiftboat slurs either. Join the real world.

[LTR]

McCain's got his own skeletons

Look at the preachers who are supporting him and what they've said.

Obviously, he wants this off the table.

We don't know what Hillary's pastor is saying at all, but then again, the Church of Satan keeps a rather low profile.

[stevenleser]

90. Which is why this is a non issue for the GE.

1 week from now most people wont even remember it.

[Life Long Dem]

63. Maybe you and all of us should be focusing on the influence of Bush on the WHOLE country.

[NDambi]

71. You need to ask why is this being re-released right now..what happened to Ferraro's story..think

about it.. don't be hoodwinked or played for a sucker.

[Omega3]

72. how come CNN has yet to say anything about it this a.m. ?

I'm white European and can barely muster the strength to type these words as I'm so full of guilt

[NDambi]

85. Well you can lay down the guilt...and just keep on the thinking cap...peace n/t

[yardwork]

78. Then you never had much hope to begin with. Buck up.

[NDambi]

86. Yanno...MAN UP FOR REAL!

[BlackVelvet04]

88. Why would you want to spin something that you know in your

gut is wrong? At 17 I walked out of a church for a racist remark made by one of the Deacons that went unchallenged by the whole rest of the church. Should I expect less from a Democratic leader? Should you? 20 years of support and of being mentored by this man and you just want someone to spin it so it doesn't seem so bad?

[BigD_95]

95. because I dont want it

to be true.

[BlackVelvet04]

98. I don't want lots of things to be true but they are.....

denying reality doesn't change reality. By his actions or lack of action Obama has put his stamp of approval on Wright and the church. I'm sorry if that upsets you...I really am, but it's reality and it will destroy his chances in the G.E.

[eggman67]

108. You're right

I'm not holding him to a higher standard than I hold myself. My wife and I left a church over anti-gay remarks in a sermon. We refuse to be enablers of that shit.

[madrchsod]

94. much to do about nothing....

this has nothing to do with what ails our country and how to fix it. it`s another diversion from the right wing to deflect their bankrupt policies.

obama has already addressed this issue and what i find repulsive is that people question obama`s intelligence that he can not counter these lies..he`s not stupid and he knows who is behind these attacks. he will deal with them when it is his advantage.

[BigD_95]

97. madrchsod dont take this the wrong way

but what are the lies? The guy said it and Obama is a member of the church for the last 20 years. Obama can counter it but that doesnt answer why he would stay at a church like that for 20 years.

[Oilwellian]

105. Perhaps you should re-read post 17

Look at what Reverend Wright has done for his community and for those who live in poverty in his congretation. Guess who helped him set up a lot of those programs....Obama. He and Reverend Wright have worked for years with other churches to address those issues. Sounds like something Jesus would do and his list of community outreach far surpasses ANYTHING Hillary has ever done. The choice here is rather obvious. To judge Obama for something his preacher may have said is rather shallow and myopic.

[BlackVelvet04]

101. You are wrong on so many levels......

I find it repulsive that someone would try to say that they disagree with something they have chosen to listen to and associate with for 20 years and expects us to believe him.

[stillcool]

107. You mean you have never disagreed...

with someone you have known for 20+ years? Now that's repulsive.

[GalleryGod]

100. IMHEO: You are thus Easily Confused, Friend.

:shrug: sorry.

[Beacool]

106. I don't know why all people go to church,

but I can tell you why I attend. I go almost every Sunday to a Lutheran church and I'm involved in various church activities, including helping out at the local homeless shelter. At the moment we have two women pastors, one is white and one is black. They are both terrific ladies who bring their own life experiences and style to the pulpit.

I attend church to be lifted spiritually, every church I have attended in my lifetime, whether it be Catholic, Lutheran or any other denomination, has acted as a uniter and not a divider of people.

If at any point in time a pastor had preached from the pulpit such incendiary, racial and negative attacks on ANYONE, I would have gotten up and left that church permanently.

Yes, it is disturbing to me that Obama is close to this man on a personal basis and that he has been hearing this kind of inflammatory sermons for years and still remains affiliated to that church.

[AtomicKitten]

112. This is an old news nasty tidbit wheeled out by HRC to cover up the Ferraro race-baiting festival.

This is Hillary Tactic #6,774, nothing more. It's all subterfuge to elicit faux fluttering of hearts like, well, this kind of concern post.

[zulchzulu]

116. Amazing how the timing on the story was...

Pure co-inky dink...

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

117. one could set their watch by the series of coinkidinks

;)

[JackORoses]

113. take your 94 posts to the Repukes then

Obama is his own man. Wright has nothing to do with his Camapign.

Buy into Hillary's racial division tactics if you're that stupid. I think you are in the minority.

[BigD_95]

119. why you have to throw

that in my face? Im asking a question. I didnt say I was leaving Obama and I sure a hell would never be a Republican. Im 37 years old...just because I started posting on this message board doesnt make me any less of a Dem!

Ive never voted for a Republican ! Ever!

Im just concern & I want a Dem in the White House. As much as I would want Obama...I rather have Hillary then McSame!

[goletian]

114. its religion - religion is religion, nothing more.

i dont get what the fuss is about. have any of you read the bible? its been used to rationalize bigotry and war for centuries! gays are an abomination? shrimp are an abomination?? coitus interruptus punishable by death? the world was formed in 6 days? woman caused mans downfall? knowledge is bad? virgin sacrifice? the list goes on!!!!!

obamas preacher is nothing compared to the source material.

[RiverStone]

115. Relax --- what about all these people?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5068556

[Moochy]

121. Tell the truth and shame the devil

You never had "Hope"

[sudopod]

122. O RLY?

[crispini]

124. I haven't seen the Wright stuff, but I will say this:

A person's spiritual journey is something that is deeply -- well -- personal. For a long time I was a member of a spiritual community, and some of the members had what could be considered questionable views. I viewed their questionable views as an opportunity for dialog for myself and with them. Some of these people were in fact my dearest and nearest friends. The thing is that 90% of what they said was SO good, and so resonated with what I felt in my heart, that the good stuff mostly was what I saw. It doesn't mean that I overlooked the bad stuff, but these were my friends, and I knew them, and I knew that we had identical views on many more things than we differed. Also, it is quite certain that nobody is perfect. Anyway, I am no longer a member of that spiritual community for reasons of my own -- some of those reasons include that dissonance, but some do not. Nevertheless I still hold those people dear in my heart because I know firsthand how much good they did and how overwhelmingly strong they were in a good cause.

[Seabiscuit]

126. It took Jeremiah Wright to cause you to just begin questioning Obama as a leader???

Man, that kool-aid must be more potent than the Jim Jones variety.

[anonymous171]

127. This is her new strategy. To kill Obama's electability.

That is why she has been throwing republican attacks (not repug style, ACTUAL repug talking point attacks) at him. If the SD think he is unelectable, they will not stay with him. A deplorable strategy, and I will fucking pissed if it works.

[BlackVelvet04]

135. she had nothing to do with this.......n/t

[knixphan]

128. John Hagee?

[Hope08]

131. Wright = Hagee

Agree it is an issue in the primaries, with Pa. looming, but it will be to a significant extent neutralized in the general by McCain's cozying up to Hagee, and Hagee's comments about the Catholic church being "the Whore of Babylon." The MSM is not paying attention to this now because **no one** is paying attention to McCain. 527s will likely not try to make Wright an issue once the general campaign season gets underway, because Hagee = Wright = mutually assured destruction. The press loves this kind of "they both do it" story; it allows them to appear balanced while stoking cynicism in the electorate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA

[BlackVelvet04]

136. Hagee supported Bush and it didn't hurt bush......

you guys really need to pull your head out of the sand.

[Hope08]

139. Faulty analysis

You miss the point. Hagee did not hurt Bush for the simple reason that his sermons were not plastered all over television -- the Republicans didn't (because they couldn't) come forward with some radical preacher whose church Kerry attended. But if the views of the respective candidates' preachers become an issue in the general election (and the OP's post assumes they will) then Hagee's views are fair game. So the notion that Wright's insane speechifying is some sort of death blow to Senator Obama in the general is not terrifically thought out, it seems to me. The intention is to make Obama look like a Garveyite black nationalist (which he plainly is not) using guilt-by-association. But folks who who find that narrative compelling are not likely to vote for a Democrat in any case.

The "head out of the sand" comment is long on insult, short on analysis.

[BlackVelvet04]

151. Hagee has been prominent on television for many years.....

this isn't the first people have heard of him.

[NorthernSpy]

158. ...~only~ because we didn't use it.

Don't kid yourself, sister. Some of us have been given every reason to press the button this time around.

[Oilwellian]

141. And then there's Hillary's religion to consider:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillary ...

Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics
September 1, 2007

---snip---

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."

***

When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.

Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.

***

Coe's friends include former Attorney General John Ashcroft, Reaganite Edwin Meese III, and ultraconservative Rep. Joe Pitts (R-Pa.). Under Coe's guidance, Meese has hosted weekly prayer breakfasts for politicians, businesspeople, and diplomats, and Pitts rose from obscurity to head the House Values Action Team, an off-the-record network of religious right groups and members of Congress created by Tom DeLay. The corresponding Senate Values Action Team is guided by another Coe protégé, Brownback, who also claims to have recruited King Abdullah of Jordan into a regular study of Jesus' teachings.

The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit." According to the Fellowship's archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship's God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe's Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance.

***

These days, Clinton has graduated from the political wives' group into what may be Coe's most elite cell, the weekly Senate Prayer Breakfast. Though weighted Republican, the breakfast—regularly attended by about 40 members—is a bipartisan opportunity for politicians to burnish their reputations, giving Clinton the chance to profess her faith with men such as Brownback as well as the twin terrors of Oklahoma, James Inhofe and Tom Coburn, and, until recently, former Senator George Allen (R-Va.). Democrats in the group include Arkansas Senator Mark Pryor, who told us that the separation of church and state has gone too far; Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) is also a regular.

Unlikely partnerships have become a Clinton trademark. Some are symbolic, such as her support for a ban on flag burning with Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) and funding for research on the dangers of video games with Brownback and Santorum. But Clinton has also joined the gop on legislation that redefines social justice issues in terms of conservative morality, such as an anti-human-trafficking law that withheld funding from groups working on the sex trade if they didn't condemn prostitution in the proper terms. With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs—say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard abortion clinics.

Clinton has championed federal funding of faith-based social services, which she embraced years before George W. Bush did; Marci Hamilton, author of God vs. the Gavel, says that the Clintons' approach to faith-based initiatives "set the stage for Bush." Clinton has also long supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a measure that has become a purity test for any candidate wishing to avoid war with the Christian right.

Liberal rabbi Michael Lerner, whose "politics of meaning" Clinton made famous in a speech early in her White House tenure, sees the senator's ambivalence as both more and less than calculated opportunism. He believes she has genuine sympathy for liberal causes—rights for women, gays, immigrants—but often will not follow through. "There is something in her that pushes her toward caring about others, as long as there's no price to pay. But in politics, there is a price to pay."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[LadyVT]

147. Yes, you get the point. He can't win after this.

"I just don't see how Obama can go to that church all that time, taking his kids there, unless he believes in what the Jeremiah Wright is preaching. If he says he rejects those words then why wasn't he strong enough to leave the church?"

That is the point

[knixphan]

152. wont get Clinton the nom.

[VotesForWomen]

154. don't be so sure. nt

[Bluebear]

157. Good. How about John Edwards then?

[VotesForWomen]

153. i've never been pro-obama, but i think this is the most serious blow to him yet; the problem is

that it will play into pre-existing doubts/stereotypes about obama, just like when dan quayle misspelled "potato" or whatever it was. this thing could really have legs, and if dems nominate O it could seriously damage the image of the party.

[cottonseed]

155. The ball is in his court now. Watch, listen, read and decide.

I am a big Obama supporter. As much as I'd love to shrug this off as nothing, I do see that it's having a pretty bad effect on some. I've made up my mind, and personally, I'm letting it go. I've seen this movie before and it doesn't bother me. Issues do.

As for you however, you'll need to take a breath and watch how Obama and his campaign handle this. If HE can make a case that's satisfactory to you, then your decision is easy. If he cannot, and you feel that a plurality of Americans will not accept his explanation of the issue, then you will probably need to look for another candidate. This will be back 10 fold come the later parts of an Obama/McCain GE and this of course must also factor into your decision. Choose wisely, it is an election after all.

[JenPen98]

159. You are right

I know what you mean. This bothers me, now look, Obama has been in this church for 20 years, and he has never heard one inflammatory message. Give me a break, I call into question his judgment. If he has no judgment to leave the church then he can not bring our men and women home from Iraq!

[angie_love]

162. Read this BigD, Obama wrote this on HuffPost this evening. Hope it makes you feel better.

The statements that Rev. Wright made that are the cause of this controversy were not statements I personally heard him preach while I sat in the pews of Trinity or heard him utter in private conversation. When these statements first came to my attention, it was at the beginning of my presidential campaign. I made it clear at the time that I strongly condemned his comments. But because Rev. Wright was on the verge of retirement, and because of my strong links to the Trinity faith community, where I married my wife and where my daughters were baptized, I did not think it appropriate to leave the church.

Let me repeat what I've said earlier. All of the statements that have been the subject of controversy are ones that I vehemently condemn. They in no way reflect my attitudes and directly contradict my profound love for this country.

With Rev. Wright's retirement and the ascension of my new pastor, Rev. Otis Moss, III, Michelle and I look forward to continuing a relationship with a church that has done so much good. And while Rev. Wright's statements have pained and angered me, I believe that Americans will judge me not on the basis of what someone else said, but on the basis of who I am and what I believe in; on my values, judgment and experience to be President of the United States.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_91623.html

[Still-ill]

163. you can't be serious

your losing your faith in someone as a leader because of his pastors comments. Wow, no wonder republicans keep winning.