As a Catholic, I know what it's like to have a Preacher do something insane

[berni_mccoy]

But I'm still a Catholic and still go to my church. Preachers and priests are humans and humans fail. Humans do and say things when they shouldn't. If you blame Obama for still attending his church after his Preacher said those things (things even Obama didn't agree with or even know the guy had said), then you have to blame Catholics for remaining Catholic after all the insane and terrible things that the priests have done. It doesn't change a person's faith, but it does make the person look at the institution, quite differently. The point here is that you can not attack a faith for the actions or words of a single preacher. And if you do, then you are simply using that persons faith as a means to attack them.

[noel711]

1. Thank you Berni!

[K Gardner]

2. As a Catholic, I know the feeling also :-)

[EmilyAnne]

3. Great point. Thank you.

[C_U_L8R]

4. Thanks for setting that straight

we were beginning to wonder about you Berni : - )))

It's daylight savings time meaning we have a whole 'nother hour of silly season,
and we're off to a terrific start. Wooohooo.

[GodlessBiker]

5. Thanks. You would think some of these folks would be attacking Kennedy for things the Pope says.

[MonkeyFunk]

6. No

nobody's attacking Obama over his faith.

It's his 20-year close relationship with a nutter.

[berni_mccoy]

8. You are basing a 20 year relationship on a handful of soundbytes

What his preacher has excitedly said in fewer than 5 sermons over 20 years. You are just as nutty in trying to draw such irrational conclusions.

[MonkeyFunk]

12. I'm saying

that this IS and WILL BE an issue, no matter how much you guys want to pretend it isn't.

"God Damn America" may well be a sentiment you share, but it'll make an awful campaign slogan.

[berni_mccoy]

15. So are you dumping Clinton for her racial tactics? She's lost the AA vote in the GE

And she is unelectable as a Democrat because of it

[MonkeyFunk]

18. Why is it that you guys can't ever stay on topic?

You always have to turn it around to an attack on Clinton.

We're discussing Obama and Wright here.

[berni_mccoy]

22. You changed the topic to electability. Now you can't handle the truth

[MonkeyFunk]

25. No

my post was relevant to your OP. Turning it around on Clinton was just out of the blue - but it's what you guys do at every turn.

[berni_mccoy]

29. You said Wright's statement would become Obama's campaign slogan

and implied that it will make a difference to his chances to win. It goes to the issue of electabilityand Clinton is far more damaged in this respect.

[roguevalley]

30. there are people who love america in SPITE of someone's

religious insanity. By the by, what about the Fellowship? WHat are your positions on that?

[Life Long Dem]

24. At one time (1993) Wright was honored as one of the greatest black preachers.

1993 is smack in the middle of Obama's 20 years of attending. It also seems that Obama has a mind of his own and don't need people like you to tell him what influence others will be on him. Obama did say he doesn't agree with everything Wright said.

Bush has been a bad influence on all of us. What to do now?

[MonkeyFunk]

26. I didn't tell Obama what to believe.

My only point is that this IS an issue, no matter how much you guys wish it weren't.

[ctaylors6]

7. I left one Catholic church for refusing background check office people; later left Cath church

I grew up in very catholic family, but couldn't stomach the way the Church as a whole handled the molestation tragedy. We're the only ones in my family that left the Catholic church. I would never send my kids to a school with that kind of history. I didn't feel comfortable sending them to a CCD class or children's mass, so we left the Cath church completely. The second to last parish we were in, the pastor wouldn't background check some of the office personnel (can't remember why exactly), which I found inexcusable considering the recent history. That pastor was transferred to another parish.
The molestation in the Cath church obviously is not like the Wright issues with Obama. But like you, it really drove home for me that a religious institution and the people who run it can be a very different thing than the religion itself.
While I completely agree with you that you cannot attack a faith for the words of a single preacher, Obama himself in his book describes his relationship with Wright as very close. To me there's a big difference between someone's personal spiritual mentor (I can't remember the exact words and loaned my book to someone) and a single preacher at a person's church. I had read about Wright months ago. While I know better to attribute what Wright has said to Obama, the combination of Wright's comments and Obama's own description of their relationship left me feeling a bit uncomfortable with Obama and his message of unity.

[Submariner]

9. The catholic priesthood is nothing but a sexist mens club of former mommy's boys

that gives refuge to the class sissies and introverts who cannot otherwise function in public. They have never worked a day in their life, and live off the suckers who put money in the collection plate.

The religion represents pure evil. I lived it every day for 12 years with those fucking nuns. Catholicism is nothing but twisted sick cult. Here in Boston I'm glad to see the churches going out of business and shutting down. This cult has maybe a few decades left and these perves will be gone from the scene.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

33. Wow. You are one digusting person.

While you are at it, care to say anything about Jews? Muslims? Blacks? Gays?

Do you wake up every morning conscious of the hate you spew from your lips (or type on the keyboard)?

Pathetic.

[Benhurst]

10. Have you ever embraced such a priest as your spiritual mentor?

Have you ever dedicated a book to such a priest?

Most of what you say isn't bad as a general statement. It just doesn't apply to Obama and his close twenty-year relationship with Wright.

Nice try, though.

[berni_mccoy]

11. A handful of abrasive statements is not a reason to dump a friend

[Benhurst]

28. Rezko. Wright. What are his other friends like? Of the two we know, Obama takes Rezko with

him to look at a house he is interested in buying, Rezko's wife then buys the lot next door, only to sell a portion of it to Obama, giving him the privacy he wants and diminishing the value of her property by reducing it in size to the point a house can no longer be built on it. Not illegal, perhaps, but a very questionable favor from a financially troubled slum landlord to do a powerful politician.

As for Wright, dismissing the issue as "a handful of abrasive statements" is pure denial on your part. I hope the Obama campaign isn't doing so, because if they are, there is big trouble ahead. Dedicating a book to such a man and choosing him for a spiritual mentor raises serious questions about Obama.

Clinton has a long history with a right-wing fundamentalist group. And now we learn Obama's affiliations are, if anything, worse than hers.

Increasingly it is becoming clear that neither of our two leading candidates represents the best the Democratic party has to offer.

[quantass]

13. good post

[jmg257]

14. Curious - so if YOUR priest specifically did/said some insane things , you would keep going to him?

I would be out of there in NY minute. Shit, I had one father who was just plain mean, and I didn't go back. LOTS of churches out there. I couldn't even imagine sitting there time and again listening to politcial speeches - especially anti America or anti-ANY race or class. That is NOT why I go to church! (when I do go).

Actually, no one is attacking his faith, they are attacking the divisive political speech of his pastor.

[berni_mccoy]

21. They are attacking Obama for statements made by his pastor that Obama doesn't agree with

Should Obama discount his entire friendship and faith based on this? If Wright was working for the campaign it would be different. But he didn't say these things working for the campaign.

[jmg257]

23. NO ONE wants him to discount his faith! But he SHOULD discount Wright's...hateful tone when it IS

there. Wright is NOW part of Obama's camapign - after the comments were made, which goes a long way to being justifiably counted with regards to Obama's judgement (and beliefs).

[berni_mccoy]

27. How is Wright 'part' of Obama's campaign? He does not serve in any capacity

And Obama has alredy denounced Wright's statements. What more can he do?

[fbuzz]

16. Did You Also Put Him On Your Campaign And Quote Him A Million Times?

Hmm?

[rodeodance]

20. the OP is not a Pres. candidate so her analogy is not relevant.

[QC]

17. If my priest delivered political rants from the pulpit

I would call the bishop. If it continued, I would find another parish.

[rodeodance]

19. But BO is a presidental candidate. It matters

[apocalypsehow]

31. Exactly right - your post is spot-on.

:thumbsup:

[OhioChick]

32. Good Post, berni. n/t

[zulchzulu]

34. I've been at Catholic masses where you could say I support Bush, am pro-life, pro-war and homophobic

If I was at a mass where a pastor or priest declared that we all support the President (Bush), should support the Iraq War, should be pro-life/anti-abortion, should vote for anti-gay legislation and should declare all other faiths wrong in their beliefs on who is going to "heaven", does that mean that I am of the same opinion?

This ruse about how Wright has somehow gotten a mind meld n Obama and therefore everything Wright says must be Obama's opinion is UTTER COMPLETE NONSENSE.