Wow I'm really impressed at how upset white people get!

[yardwork]

I'm white myself. I've lived in the midwest and the south, and I've always wondered how the folks who insist that "black people should just get over it" would react if they were discriminated against themselves.

Now we know! One "radical" black preacher has got a zillion people on DU in hysterics because he....(wait for it)....said some negative things about white people. lol!

Look at yourselves. How do you think black people feel when folks like David Duke get elected?!

Are white people in the United States still so sure of white privilege that they get this upset when somebody disagrees?

[0007]

1. bttft and recommend with many kudos for a great post.

[yardwork]

3. Thanks.

[cloudythescribbler]

128. excuse my ignorance, but what does bttft stand for?

It wasn't in a dictionary of acronyms or one of net lingo (the closest match in any was bttf -- back to the future, but that doesn't fit)

[JimGinPA]

155. Back To The F***ing Top nt

[cloudythescribbler]

317. Thanx -- I FINALLY found it on google, though the dictionaries & Wikipedia didn't have it .... nt

[BlueManDude]

2. Talk radio is basically white folks talking (obssessing really) about black folks.

[yardwork]

5. ...and scaring people. Looks like it works. Pathetic!

[laugle]

248. I guess you haven't

listened to Ray Taliaferro? He likes to call white people racist, bigots, cracker, dirty traitor's for the last few months...........

[stevedeshazer]

259. Bullcrap. Ray tells it like it is.

I'm a regular listener, and he's NEVER said that.

Back it up.

You won't be able to.

[laugle]

266. Your as bad as him!

You condone it!

[LiberalLovinLug]

275. where did the poster 'condone' anything?

I've listened to Ray for years. I think he has gone over the deep end a bit lately by his Hillary hating, calling her stupid, disgusting and horrible and I'm an Obama supporter. but I've never heard him engage in racist name calling against white people. Hell most of the callers are white. As long as they agree with him on the issues he praises them. He's very biased and pig-headed, but racist? no.

[laugle]

334. I too have listened to him for years.

I don't print lies. He has stopped with the cracker comments, as he should. Many people complained on and off the air. He continues to call people racist and bigots and hurts Obama, IMO!

[bicentennial_baby]

4. You said it!

:applause:

Angry black man!!! Run awaaaaaay! :o

I'm white too, but damn, some white people blow my mind.

[yardwork]

6. I think it's going to take us white folk standing up to this - I feel called!

[bicentennial_baby]

25. Me too...I had a fascinating interaction yesterday:

I was in Econometrics lab (I'm almost done getting my BA in Economics, for context), and I was wearing my Obama sweatshirt and t-shirt.

One of my fellow majors, who is a black male, is well known for viewing many things through a strictly racial lens. There's nothing wrong with that, but some of my other black classmates do think he takes it over the top at times. Anyway, he noticed my sweatshirt, and with wide eyes said: "You are supporting Barack Obama?!".

I said "Of course." and smiled. He then proceeded to grill me, all the while completely incredulous that this lil' white girl was supporting Obama over Hillary. And he figured that my friend next to me, who is a white male, would be supporting McCain. My friend is also an Obama supporter. As is my other fried who was sitting on my other side, except he's an Asian male. :)

So he was asking me to explain in detail why I support Obama over Clinton or McCain, and I did so, detailing the pros and cons I see in both candidates, discussing policy differences and stances on issues, and how I came to support Obama after DK dropped out. It turned into a really awesome discussion where most of the class stopped working and gathered around, and we all discussed the issues surrounding the primaries and GE in depth.

I think I blew his mind, and maybe changed his perspective just a little bit. It was a good day. :)

:hi:

[yardwork]

33. Good for you! You know, I'm starting to feel some of that Obama hope.

I really am. And if the wimps can't keep up with the power of hope, well, I guess they'll fall behind.

Good things don't happen easily. People don't win rights for themselves by asking politely. It takes courage and work.

[hisownpetard]

36. Good for you! Sounds like you did yourself proud.

[sorrybushisfromtexas]

60. me, too. good post.

I am a 58 yr old teacher, very open about my liberal beliefs, and am I member of a Optimist Club (Civic Organization who do many things to help the youth of the community). One thing we don't do is get political in the Club setting. My good friend who got me in the club, knows my liberal and we have been fighting politics at for over 35 years. I am the one member who they know that is way to the left of center. I just cut off my ponytail. The average age for a club member is 60, all are white, and it's apparent they are Hillary Haters. I get to rib them a little, our president of the club is female, and I tell them that our next American President will be a woman or a black man.
We have a young couple who come sporadically but are very quiet. I found out at a Softball meeting, where they are volunteering to be coaches, that they are Obama delegates to the county convention as I am, and are political junkies just like me. I told them about DU and they lurk here often. (As I have done for many years) I urged them to start posting and that it gave me hope to see so many young people who are excited about a candidate as I am. (My daughter went the other way, how I don't know, but she is a Republican, and gasp listens to Shawn Hannity. She is a great girl but had many Republican friends.)

[yardwork]

70. Thank you for posting!

And, thank you for being a teacher and helping so many young people. My children are teenagers, and I deeply appreciate their teachers.

[Hepburn]

163. Bravo!

Good for you! :applause:

[Deny and Shred]

217. Yo Becentennial Baby, you are making me miss college, big time

As a former econ grad, I know that economics, that imperfect science that it is, can be THE primordial soup for outstanding ad hoc Socio/political discourse. Your class-wide conversation warms my heart, and there is nothing like the heat of a campaign to distract from econometrics, of all things... well maybe statistics. That said, ...
I do find the blanco backlash fascinating, and at times troubling. One of my bestest buds in college was Egyptian, and watched and listened as he tried to come to grips with an alabaster campus, for the most part.
I do believe that the differences (I am a white guy) ARE real, and, though not completely incomprehensible, usually brushed aside by the campus masses, resulting in even more vitriolic backlash from those who aren't shy about pointing out the differences.
There is the basic 80/20 ratio, and it sounds like you are among the 20% that will listen, and your classmate figured you were among the 80%; therefore, just opting for Obama as flavor of the month.
Standing your ground, explaining yourself, right arm. I know it was insightful for both me and some of the students of color with whom I attended.

May you always find such lively debate. Post college, for me anyway, has been an ocean of fixed opinions.

[SwampG8r]

80. im in

ill stand up to it
in fact thats why i want obama in the first place
no matter how you cut it
bush bush bush clinton clinton bush bush clinton does not represent much change from the tired old ways
its time to mix it up a bit
sorry hillary but its past your time

[Bake]

93. Feel called all you want to.

I cannot and will not defend what Wright said. I cannot imagine that MLK would have defended what Wright said.

So jump on out there and defend Wright. This white man won't be with you.

Bake

[Dhalgren]

114. Well this red man will defend Wright.

Reverend White is an American citizen and as such has the right to think and say whatever he believes. And you and anyone else who doesn't like it can say so and then fuck off. He has an opinion on various issues and topics and you don't like his opinions. Fine. Next? The fact that Obama is a close friend of his and he is a supporter of Obama's means absolutely nothing. Period.

Just relax and allow an American citizen to hold an unpopular opinion. It feels good. It really does.

I am not a supporter of Obama or Clinton, but I agree with some of what Reverend Wright said and some I didn't, but he certainly has the right to his views.

[Bake]

130. Of course Wright is entitled to his views! Nobody is claiming otherwise.

But nice straw man you toss up there.

Wright can think and say whatever the hell he wants to. That's his constitutional right. Obama has the right to sit in the pew every Sunday and listen to it if he wants to.

But he's running for President. And I have the right not to like what Wright said, not to like Obama's long-term relationship with him, and cast my vote accordingly.

That's the issue. Not the straw man you put up.

Bake

[Dhalgren]

132. You are changing what you said.

"I cannot and will not defend what Wright said." I will defend it. If you choose not to vote for Obama in the GE because of something his pastor said, that is your right as an American voter. I would not belittle you nor try to make you feel bad for exercising your rights. I just think that this whole issue is being blown out of proportion. Every day the Obama camp is "shocked" and "offended" by something someone connected in some way to Clinton has said or done and the next day it is the Clinton supporters turn to be "shocked" and "offended".

An African American man said that he disapproves of the way the US treats people of color, both US citizens of color and World citizens of color. He accused the US of going so far as to commit crimes in this regard. This is not "shocking" and mostly I agree with him. Obama is handling this fine, so far. I agree that this could be a problem for him, because there are a lot of right-wing assholes out there, but hopefully he will manage it well.

:hi:

[Bake]

Wright's words WERE shocking.

I will not defend them (which is what I said in the first place). I will defend his RIGHT to say them. But I don't have to like them, approve of them, or vote for anyone who is associated with them. That's why the Founding Fathers talked about the "Marketplace of ideas." I reject Wright's ideas, in part based on his over-the-top choice of words.

So will a huge number of voters in the fall. And you and the rest of the Obama supporters will be wondering what hit you the day after the GE.

Bake

[krkaufman]

170. You say Wright's words were "shocking" and "over-the-top"

But do you also disagree with all the essentials of his "argument"?

- The economy is almost entirely controlled by caucasians
- A white person cannot know what it's like to be black
- US foreign policy over the last 70 years may have contributed to 9/11

Just curious.

edit: p.s. I need to review more videos, as the above are based only on the Morning Ho segment posted elsewhere.

[pollo poco]

197. I do not disagree

I'm gay, white, female, and voting for Obama.
But his close ties with the church scare the crap out of me.
White, Black or Otherwise, religious people use their sacred texts to justify discrimination.
It's ironic to hear the same bible that was used by southerners to justify slavery now being used by christians of all colors to keep gays in their place. And women are mistreated by men all over this world, regardless of ethnicity or social standing.

There is plenty of discrimination going on in this country. IT ALL SUCKS.

So, I agree with krkaufman's sentiments, and would add:

- the economy is almost entirely controlled by rich white men
- a man of any color cannot know what it is like to be a woman
- a straight person cannot know what it is like to be gay
- christians cannot know what it's like to be hated for not sharing that faith
- protected groups of citizens cannot know what it's like to be denied equal protection under the law for loving the "wrong" person, being born the "wrong" color, in the "wrong" place, or into the "wrong" social class

I wonder if Wright would agree with me? I wonder if his church would take a stand against such prejudice? Prejudice against people outside the chosen congregation.

I think it's sad that we are so divided. Victims of bigotry share much in common. Second class citizens of all stripes suffer affronts to dignity and livelihood. The fears for life and limb. Corrosive erosion of the spirit. Why not stand up for each other, instead of perpetuating the pain? It doesn't matter who's doing the hating. It is hatred itself that is the enemy. And when we practice bigotry, we validate bigotry. If bigotry is not wrong for gay people, why is it wrong for straights? If it's not wrong for women, why is it wrong for men? Once we become practitioners of hatred we reduce the argument for justice to a mere quibbling dissatisfaction with our own place in the hierarchy. It is the hierarchy itself that is the problem.

This is the message I get when I listen to Dr. King. His words speak of hope for all of us.
I believe Obama shares that vision.
But, I fear all the churches. I fear the self-righteousness that seems to unite my fellow citizens across all lines.
So, while Wright's essential argument is sound, I find it to be a little suspect owing to it's limited scope.

[yardwork]

225. Thank you for posting. I have said much the same in other threads.

I am also gay, white, female. I'm pagan, too - mostly because the Church rejects me, so I found my own spiritual path, one that worships God as both female and male.

I've been angry with Obama for months about the McClurkin incident. I wish that Obama had rejected McClurkin's words as strongly as he rejected Jeremiah Wright's today. I wish that some of the folks outraged by Wright's comments were as outraged by McClurkin's words and actions. But, they're not. I know what you're talking about.

[Bluenorthwest]

303. In agreement

yard and polo. Rev Wright has been strong for gay people, but I have trouble defending Obama in regard to religious figures due to McClurkin. Our party winked and nodded at that whole bash fest. The lack of outrage about that is a big part of why we are now here. Obama never apologized nor even said specifically how he disagreed with McClurkin, and he kept the man on the tour, and he says that he will 'keep listening' to anti gay people, no matter what, becasue they are 'good decent moral people'.
That is a problem. And it makes me sad.

[Dhalgren]

304. In total agreement with you Blue. Obama's shitting on LGBT is

almost the only thing keeping me from supporting him. He can be as much of a Christian as wants (he can be a Hare Krishna, or a Heaven's Gate for all I care) as long as he does not let his religious beliefs decide who has equal rights under the Constitution. When he said that his "faith" guided him on matters of "marriage" and equal rights, he lost me. And he hasn't gotten me back yet...

[yardwork]

320. I don't think that McClurkin stayed on the tour. And, take a look at Obama's website.

I don't have the link handy, but another DUer linked it here a few weeks ago. Obama comes out strongly in favor of gay rights. Yes, he stops short at gay marriages, but he does say that he is in favor of civil unions with all the rights of marriage. He also says he'll work to protect gay rights at the federal level.

It was enough for me to forgive him for McClurkin. Yes, I'm disappointed that there was far more outrage here over Wright's comments than McClurkin's. I'm disappointed that Obama didn't refute McClurkin's words as strongly as he refuted Wright's.

However, I want a Democrat in the White House! I will vote for Hillary or Obama, whomever gets the nomination. It looks like the primary will still be going when it finally reaches my state. I'll vote for Obama.

[MadMaddie]

227. pollo poco Well said and Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[krkaufman]

249. Please note that I expressed no personal sentiments in the previous post.

I merely attempted to document what appeared to be the point of Wright's comments, from the MSNBC video posted earlier.

[Dhalgren]

235. As I have said numerous times, I am not an Obama supporter.

I just do not disagree with most of what Reverend Wright said and I don't think this is all that big of a deal. i think that most of the "shock" and "outrage" are manufactured - yours may be genuine, I don't understand it, but it might be real...

[yardwork]

136. So vote for Hillary in the primary. You were going to do so anyway, based on previous posts.

But if you choose John McCain over Barack Obama, then you're supporting somebody with a spiritual adviser (John C. Hagee) who is a heckuva lot worse than Reverend Wright.

[frogcycle]

263. yeah, what you said n/t

[yardwork]

133. Nobody is asking you to defend Wright. I'm asking you not to be scared of black people's words.

The level of *terror* on the part of white people who supposedly supported Obama until they found out what his pastor said is silly, and it's embarrassing, and it's no way to bring "hope and change" to this nation.

I'm asking people to set aside their fears and calm down.

[Bake]

150. "God Damn America" isn't exactly bringing about hope and change either

Obama had better deal with this decisively or he is screwed.

Don't be scared of words? I'm NOT. I reject Wright's words outright. According to Obama, WORDS MATTER.

Bake

[yardwork]

158. Obama didn't say God Damn America. He's never said anything like that.

When did Reverend Wright utter those words? Years ago, years before Obama's campaign for president began.

Are you going to go back and look up the words of every single person who supports Hillary Clinton and scrutinize what they said years ago?

You won't have to look far to find similar words coming from McCain's little religious buddy. Right now.

So vote for Hillary in the primaries. But if Obama is the nominee, and you vote for McCain, then you're choosing far more hateful, shocking words and actions to ally yourself with than anything Obama ever said.

[Hepburn]

161. Hello???

Look at what the USA did in Iraq...you think that (assuming there is a God) we are fucking going to be praised for that??? I would rather think that those actions are totally and 100% damnable. Look around, there is a TON of shit the US should not have done or allowed to happen. We are NOT perfect...and a lot of this sick shit has to do with things other than slavery and racial discrimination.

If I were black and I had been treated like I have seen blacks treated in my life time (I am a few months shy of 60), I would be pissed off ROYAL! There is enough other shit that pisses me off...add to that the shit that would have been tossed to me if I were black...and, oh, yeah, I can see where that anger is coming from...and just how justified it is!

Get a clue, OK?

[Bake]

162. I blame our leaders, not the nation, not her people.

Certainly not the 3,000 innocent Americans who went to work but didn't come home on 9/11.

Bake

[krkaufman]

172. Yikes! I've definitely missed one or more of the Wright clips, it appears.

Could you please point me to your source for the above statement, that Wright blames the 9/11 victims? Thanks.

[bigbrother05]

269. Wasn't directed at the 9-11 victims.

Went after the way the US gov't had treated/behaved in the world and how that could have contributed to the animosity that resulted in the WTC attack.

[krkaufman]

319. Well, that was my impression, as well, and a statement with which I agree.

But I was assuming that the previous poster must have seen some other video clip, since he/she was claiming that Wright had blamed the victims of 9/11. (double-checking that I wasn't accidentally reading FreeRepublic)

[yardwork]

223. Great rant!

You said it so well!

[superkia]

255. Looks like your one of those sensitive people that needs...

everything to be spoke to you in politically correct terms, good luck dealing with reality. Go do some research on what this government has done, what the terror suspects have said years ago about why they are attacking us or how they ask us to elect honest politicians that will stop killing their people in order to rape their land,freedom and money. I could go on but from your comments, you aren't a person that really has a clue to what this government has been doing for years and what they continue to do. Hopefully, when the system comes for you, you will then see the light and join the rest of us in defending our country and our rights.

Wake up and stop watching the entertainment news channels, they are warping your mind and your ability to see reality.

Good luck to you and yours!

[Usrename]

164. You might be wrong about King.

He was more controversial than Wright is.

[Terran]

175. Oh surely not!

Much like Jesus himself, MLK was an angel incarnate who lived his life hovering over earthly concerns on a diamond-encrusted golden pedestal.

:sarcasm:

[Usrename]

205. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Some people have a very different view of the world, that much is true.

[krkaufman]

169. Hell, given the minimal progress we've made in this country ...

... since the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr., I could see MLK, were he still alive, being far more adamant. I don't see Wright's statements being all that far from the context of MLK's 'Beyond Vietnam' speech.

[NOLALady]

188. There seems to be another big difference between MLK

and Rev Wright.

King saw injustices and called for action, non violent action. He called upon us to get involved in change.

From the clips Wright seems to discuss injustices, but he doesn't call for action or suggest solutions.

Maybe I missed something, but I don't understand why anyone could fear his sermons. He seems to be a talker, not a doer like MLK.

[krkaufman]

189. "no call for action"

True. But then we aren't seeing *all* of Wright's speeches or sermons. According to BO, the church was very involved in service.

Re: relative fear triggering from a call to action versus none... I'd think an explicit call to action would be less fear-inducing, as one would then understand how the angst was being channeled. Hard/impossible to say.

[ms liberty]

293. How do we know that though?

Unless one has seen the videos in their entirety, there is no way to know what else Rev Wright discussed - I'm not sure about you, but all I have seen is the clips that have stirred the controversy. It may well be that he does discuss actions and solutions elsewhere in the videos...but to show that part of them would give context - and that's not going to keep the controversy going, now is it?
Golly, the news and the partisans wouldn't do that would they?

:sarcasm:

[ekwhite]

272. Hell, I don't just defend it, I agree with it

What did he say? That 9/11 was blowback? Hell yes it was - we funded Osama Bin Laden, installed the Shah of Iran, backed Saddam Hussein, still back Mubarak, have rolled over to the Likud in Israel, bombed Vietnam, isolated Cuba, installed dictatorial regimes all over South and Central America, and generally acted like a bully all over the world. Then we attacked every country except the one most of the hijackers came from - our good friends in Saudi Arabia. The thousands in the World trade center did nothing to deserve what happened to them, but our government did a lot to create the situations that fueled the type of fanaticism shown by the 9/11 hijackers.

He said God Damn America because of what it has done to the black community. We god damn well have been committing atrocities against African Americans since the 17th century. Those atrocities are still going on.

What he was saying was the harsh, ugly truth. He damn well has a right to be angry. As someone said during the 60's - if you aren't angry, you aren't paying attention. Rev. Wright HAS been paying attention.

[Dhalgren]

305. Bravo! Well said! If I could Rec a single post, I'd Rec yours!

:applause:

[yardwork]

321. Can't disagree with a word you said. Great rant!

[Skidmore]

104. Yes it is up to us as individuals to get people to interact and to take the

responsibility to extend hands. Some of you may know that I'm one half of an interracial marriage. My husband and I have dealt with the problem of being included in coversations in each others presence. When we've been around white people, they tend to only want to converse or deal with me. When we've been around black people, the reverse has been true many times. Likewise, when people pass by on the street, they seem to tend to greet the one of us most like them. Early on we adopted a practice of making the person who has engaged with one of us acknowledge the other's presence by pointedly including the other in conversation or by way of introduction. Once conversation begins, then there is a chance to develop relationships. We also individually make a point of making eye contact with people (Iowans greet one another on the street, even when they don't know the person) and saying "Hi" with a smile when we meet ALL people. When you go through a grocery line start a little conversation with others. It's basic people skills and the acknowledgement that we are equals in this society. We will never forge a new society until we actually change the way we interact with people, and excluding people from your homes and places where we socialize does not expand our universe at all. The workplace and the schools were just the first frontier. We do need to stand up and call people on bigotry and not tolerate exclusion for anyone.

[yardwork]

134. I agree.

I wouldn't say some of the things that Reverend Wright said, but I do agree with some other things he's said.

What I'm talking about is people becoming *terrified* of the words of a fire-brand black preacher, and running scared away from their candidate as a result. Silliest thing I've ever seen. Embarrassing, too.

I'm asking people to show a little courage.

[Skidmore]

144. I hear you

and agree.

[krkaufman]

174. Personally, I'm not even sure they're running away from what he's saying.

I think people are only hearing snippets of what he's saying, and are mostly reacting to what they're seeing and the emotion they're hearing. (i.e. a fired-up black preacher in a suspicious-looking robe seeming to say something negative about whites and America)

[crispini]

7. Yay, yardwork!

:applause:

[yardwork]

8. Thanks.

[Indenturedebtor]

9. Lol no kidding

Answer to question #4 = Emphatic Yes.

[yardwork]

13. Spread the word. Let's calm down our neighbors.

[0007]

10. bttft and recommend with many kudos for a great post.

[Blue_Roses]

11. well said

:applause:

[Birthmark]

12. Hey, we didn't get where we are...

...by quiet introspection and measured response. No, we bludgeon opposition...or rightful owners...or anything else that gets in our way. It's the only way to ensure freedom, you know?

[stlsaxman]

195. Yeah- We stole this country fair and square!

"Y'know something, people? I'm not black but there's a whole lotta times i wish i could say i'm not white." Frank Zappa Trouble Comin' Every Day from the album FREAK OUT 1966

[easy_b94]

14. cool

[yardwork]

15. Thanks.

[Justyce]

16. Racial hate speech is wrong, regardless of which side is doing it. nt

[yardwork]

18. Do you have hysterics every time David Duke opens his mouth?

Or is it just when black people say discriminatory things that you get really upset?

McCain has a crazy white preacher working his campaign and there's been nothing about it in the mainstream media.

[fbuzz]

28. David Duke Is Not Advising, Nor Being Hailed, By A Presidential Candidate

Yardwork, You Are A Piece of Work

[yardwork]

48. McCain has a bigoted white preacher advising his campaign and being hailed.

Where's the outrage?

[Justyce]

34. I am equally upset when it comes from either direction. Wrong is wrong. nt

[yardwork]

37. If Reverend Wright has actually said bigoted things, I disagree with him.

But so far, all I've seen are quotes from him that accurately reflect some truths about this country's history. It appears to make a lot of people very uncomfortable. I can only conclude that a lot of people in this country don't know much about our history.

[NorthernSpy]

203. I'm not. One side is 75% of the population, and has the lion's share of the power.

If the sides were equal, I'd be equally upset. They're not, so I'm not.

[yardwork]

230. That is a really important distinction that gets forgotten a lot.

Thanks.

[mzmolly]

270. So it's ok for 25% of the population to be racist and not acknowledge the

fact that of the 75% are made up of individuals?

[Political Heretic]

280. Yes. It is.

Because the 25% of the population isn't addressing individuals of any percentage with their criticism. They are making an institutional criticism or the structure and system which oppresses one group and benefits the other 75% -- ALL of the 75%, whether they hate black people or love them, whether they asked for it or not.

White people own society, whether they want it to be that way or wish it was different.

[mzmolly]

311. Sorry, it's not institutional when you mention "white people".

I myself have critique of the "structure, system, institution" though I will never defend ignorance as just.

BTW, this white person, did not "own" society.

What a ridiculous premise this entire charade has become. Thankfully, Obama himself is not defending this shit.

[Zynx]

54. Of for goodness sakes of course I get upset when the KKK does anything.

I can criticize a black man for unfairly painting all white people with the same brush. My ancestors came from Ireland and Poland. They came here poor. They came here discriminated against for employment and education. I resent when I am lumped in with establishment WASPs who have discriminated against everyone.

[yardwork]

58. Nobody is lumping you in with anybody. This isn't about you.

I'm talking about the folks here on DU who are running around like Chicken Little at the words of a black preacher. Their reaction is totally out of proportion. It's very amusing to me, actually.

[SwampG8r]

85. may i intrude?

while your relatives did come here from far away
and were not here at the time of slavery to profit from the act
they did come here white and european and were able to establish themselves
and prosper here because of that fact while blacks who had been here since the 1600s were still in a state of exclusion
not laying a guilt trip out or nothing
just want to point out that while all our hands may not be covered in blood
we all got a little splash on us

[awoke_in_2003]

289. "we all got a little splash on us"

excellent point. Welcome to DU

[amandabeech]

96. You are painting with a very, very broad brush when it comes to WASPs.

Not all of us have "discriminated against everyone," and I'm sure you know it. So, please don't write it.

[skygazer]

156. My ancestors came from Ireland and Italy

They were poor and discriminated against. They were also white. That right there gave them a huge advantage over people of color.

First of all, your ancestors (and mine) came here by choice - they weren't crammed onto filthy ships in chains and carted across a heaving ocean, only to be sold as forced labor. So there's a minor difference.

Secondly, they were white. Which means that automatically there was at least one group that was lower on the totem pole than they were. And who would never be able to fit in because all you had to do was look at them to see that they belonged to that group.

During the New York City draft riots of the Civil War, gangs of rioting whites, mostly poor and mostly Irish and other immigrants, burned down a black orphanage, strung up blacks from street signs, rampaged the streets looking for blacks to murder. Now maybe your family wasn't here then. But every white person in this country has a suitcase full of white privileges that they don't even think about, aren't even aware they have.

I get a kick out of people who expect a group of people who have been enslaved, oppressed, abused and discriminated against in this country for 400 years to take a census as to what one's family may have done to further that before speaking out. The truth is, we have all furthered it because it has been built into the system that we all utilize.

[mzmolly]

264. The Irish were crammed into ships and many had little choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_ship

The term has also been used to refer to the ships that carried Irish emigrants escaping the effects of the potato famine. These ships, crowded and disease ridden, with poor access to food and water, resulted in the deaths of many people as they crossed the Atlantic. Owners of coffin ships provided as little food, water, and living space as was legally possible — if they obeyed the law at all.

While coffin ships were the cheapest way to cross the Atlantic, often many of the passengers died during the voyage. It was said that sharks could be seen following the ships, because so many bodies were thrown overboard.

[Dhalgren]

307. "Escaping" a famine, while horrible, is not remotely comparable

to being hunted down, captured, and sold into slavery. The Irish "escaped" a famine - good for them, right? Thousands and thousands of Irish died in the Potato Famines; escaping from it was life-saving. Africans escaped...what? Freedom? Health? Their families? Their homes?

No, while the Irish Famine was a terrible thing and a tragedy for the Irish, it is not comparable to the African slave trade. And, on top of all that, why would we even be trying to compare the two? If you do not think that the US has a horrible history of brutalizing people of color all over the globe (including inside the US), then you need to look more closely at our history. Peace...

[mzmolly]

312. The Irish were also hunted and captured into slavery,

depending upon how far back one wishes to dig into the historical text.

As for what is comparable, I'm not the one comparing here. I responded to ignorance with fact.

[yardwork]

322. I refuse to be sucked into this comparison game.

Every living human being has ancestors who were oppressed and ancestors who were oppressors. Does that mean that black preachers aren't allowed to speak out about what this country is doing to people of color right now?

Of course not. It's not wrong to speak out against injustice just because other injustices occur. Do they somehow cancel one another out?

Of course not. Thank you for your posts on this thread!

[mzmolly]

265. I couldn't agree more.

I can't believe this kind of crap has been allowed to stand, actually?

[Bake]

94. Yeah, I do get upset about David Duke

But I haven't seen him in the news in quite a while.

Bake

[yardwork]

135. Check out John C. Hagee. He's walking around with Candidate McCain.

Hagee is as much a bigot as David Duke. And he's McCain's campaign's spiritual adviser.

[shenmue]

296. And a lot of people have condemned him for it.

This is the most silly shit you could have posted. Sure, everybody likes John Hagee! :puke: :sarcasm: Are you awake?

But no, you're on a "white people love David Duke" kick. When you get your head out of your ass, then you'll see daylight.

[yardwork]

323. I notice that you have to resort to name calling, since you don't have a point.

I never said that white people love David Duke - although some certainly do, since he was elected to the Louisiana House of Representatives. Your putting it in quotes is especially dishonest, since I never posted it and nobody else did on this thread either.

Where is the condemnation of McCain on the evening news? Is Fox News running a series with video clips of his spiritual adviser's speeches? Where's the outrage? I see none.

My OP - which you don't understand, obviously - is that the outrage against Reverend Wright's comments and the fear on this board that it spelled the end of Obama's campaign is absurdly out of proportion.

My point is that I find it hilarious that many white people get this upset when a black person dares to say negative things about them, even though many whites constantly tolerate much worse comments made by white people against minorities.

[Dr. Strange]

98. Let's see what Google says:

Results 1 - 10 of about 3,600 from democraticunderground.com for David Duke. (0.29 seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 1,130 from democraticunderground.com for Jeremiah Wright. (0.20 seconds)

Looks like Duke has been hit here a few times at DU.

[yardwork]

138. Good! I'm glad that folks are checking it out for themselves.

I hope that they google John C. Hagee and John McCain next!

[polmaven]

152. I have to say Yes...

This 50+ white woman pretty much DOES have hysterics every time David Duke opens his mouth to make some bigoted remark...Which is just about every time he opens his mouth! Luckily for people around me, we haven't heard a lot form him lately.

Please do not try to say that all white people, or even a majority of us are bigots.

Discrimination is discrimination....black, white, gay, straight, female, male.....it doesn't matter. It is still bigotry.

And, btw...I have seen stories in the MSM about that loon associated with McCain. A little worrisome is that McCain's response has been pretty close to Obama's response so far.

[AlbertCat]

185. I have hysterics....

....every time a PREACHER opens his mouth. Why should these pushers of ancient superstitions and supernatural solutions, that don't exist, to our problems be given any authority? Theology is no science; it's like arguing about whether Frodo's feet are hairier than Bilbo Baggins'. Who cares what they think.

And has Obama declared positively that he whole heartedly agrees with every syllable uttered by his advisers and/or preachers?

How about we keep our eye on important things.

As far as prejudice is concerned: anyone who thinks it doesn't exist is a fool. Anyone who thinks whites have it as bad as blacks is also a fool. Blacks are human beings too who have all the positive and NEGATIVE traits inherent in the species.

Meanwhile....back at the real issues...

[Oilwellian]

281. Churches are more than just sermons

They are a community of people helping and supporting each other and reaching out to help other communities in need. If you research Wright's history as a pastor, you'll find amazing successes. He's built a strong community of thousands of people that are vibrant and learning how to succeed without government help. I thought that was something the right wing always expected of black folk. Succeeding in life without government help. And consider how they feel about their church (community) being smeared & degraded by the MSM for the past two days. I've seen few even mention how they must feel.

Something to ponder for those so willing to prejudge Rev. Wright before really getting to know who he is. I hope this church gets more attention so America can understand fully how resourceful this community Obama belongs to actually is. :D

[shenmue]

295. What is this bullshit? Of course people do.

David Duke has extremely few friends anywhere. Stop with this lame "Did you stop beating your wife?" garbage.

Sure, because nobody objects to David Duke except people like you, so it's okay to say black people should sing "God Damn America."

:eyes:

:sarcasm:

You're full of shit.

[yardwork]

324. Nobody sang God Damn America - that's a flat-out lie.

And your foul mouth does nothing to persuade anybody.

[SoonerPride]

26. What HATE speech?

Quotes please.

[Bake]

95. How about "God Damn America"

That's all it takes for me.

I don't care how you try to spin it. After that one, I stop listening. he said it for shock effect? It worked.

Bake

[Terran]

176. Ever heard of rhetoric?

If you read what he actually said, he used that phrase in contrast the ubiquitous "God Bless America" to show that America is guilty of a lot of sins that make America unworthy of being blessed. It was a rhetorical device, nothing more.

[ekwhite]

273. Oh that's right - America has never done anything worth being damned for...NT

[shellfishgene]

284. To "Bake"

Well, at least you admit that you are so out of control of your own mind that if someone says "god damn America" that all rational thought and any semblance of an attention span escape you. I agree with the essence of most of what the pastor said and even so, it made me feel uncomfortable to hear it. But guess what, after about a minute when it wore off, I got over it.

We all have dreams and ideas of what "America" should be. It doesn't even make sense to quantify it b/c there are so many ways you can go about it. Is it a land mass within artificial borders? The government? The people? It means something different to everyone. Context is important. Are we so god damned stupid that if someone insults the undefinable concept of "America" that we take it as a personal insult?

When he said "god damn America" it was obvious to me that he wasn't singling out every American to say fuck you. Instead, he was pointing out that America's institutions have largely failed when it comes to race equality. In addition, the government has caused a lot of resentment worldwide through our reckless foreign policy endeavors over the last 60 years. He clearly wasn't blaming average white folk for physically causing terrorists to strike New York.

It's also obvious that the words coming in the way that they did don't appeal to most people in this country. We prefer to let the media ignore big issues and tell us that everything is hunky dory while the pretty newscasters tell us about Britney and how the market is always kicking ass. And when we catalog "America's" failures, we want to see it from an academic (probably white) who speaks mildly, factually, and carefully as not to offend anyone. There are definite positives to that kind of debate, but the downside is that if it doesn't fit the mold, we lose the ability to hear the message. The same institutional control that the pastor is pissed about is the same reason you don't want to hear it. Angry, loud black man, nooooooo!

Either way... Obama didn't say it. So chill the fuck out. And go read some books that will give you the perspective of someone other than the winners. It might make sense why people around the world are angry at the United States. Even if you're still uncomfortable and turned off by the manner of the message, you may be able to tune in long enough to see what someone is saying so you can dissect it after the fact.

Maybe then we'll be able to look at an incident like this and think, "jeez... this guy is really mad, let's try to figure out why. Do his arguments hold any merit?" Maybe we won't settle for the easy answer that he is a pyscho America hating racist. Guests on tv would engage in a debate about the history of social justice in America. Then, we would come to a conclusion and we'd move on.

It's ironic that some people that buy into Obama's message of change can't stomach criticism that comes in a different format. The first step to change is called tolerance. Nothing will change if the first time we get uncomfortable we run back to the paradigm that we are trying to escape from.

[awoke_in_2003]

290. Excellent post

welcome to DU

[yardwork]

325. Great rant! Welcome to DU!

[shellfishgene]

332. thanks!

:)

[gtar100]

316. Three words and you judge a man. You're looking for justification, not sound reasoning.

Worse! You judge a man associated with the man.

So your task is to not say three words in a row that would need a little more explanation to be understood.

Better still, don't let a friend say three words in a row that could be misunderstood.

[uponit7771]

What did Wright say that in that sermon that wasn't true!?!?!?!?

[stillcool]

113. I wish I knew exactly what it is...

that people are so offended by. Maybe you can tell me what words disturbed you?

[awoke_in_2003]

291. Unfortunately, truth often

disturbs people. Maybe one day we can evolve past that.

[ksquire]

261. this isn't racial hate speak but a matter of fact about american policies -- past and present.

[meow mix]

17. so much raaaaaaaaage, LOL

cant wait for this to be over and the true bigots log out for good.

play the sermon a year ago, or a year from now.. and itll be praised.

[Dhalgren]

308. A real late response to your post, but the sermon everyone is so

up in the air about is from 2003! This is the most ridiculous display I have seen in some time. This is way worse than the "Ferraro is a racist" silliness. If it weren't so sad, it would be funny...

[mrcheerful]

19. Yeah they do. You should here some of the crap I've heard in the last few weeks

BO is a muslum hidding behind a christain preacher and if the ni**** gets in the white house its the end of the white race because the ni****'s will put whites in concentration camps. On the other hand if HRC gets in, then men will no longer have rights or jobs because HRC will give everything to women. And horrors of horrors HRC can't control her man, Spitzer proved how bad Bill will be if HRC wins. But this is michigan where most of the stupid live, after all job loss here wasn't out sourcing or corporate greed, it was the unions and the EPA that killed the state. Those damn tree hugging Dem's were behind the woes of the state.

[yardwork]

22. I think you got every single meme! Good work!

That is word for word what I see on the local news blogs here.

[krkaufman]

177. You have me chuckling over a conversation w/ a friend in Spring 2004

She's married to an auto industry employed engineer living in Michigan, and I was discussing the need to improve our fuel efficiency in order to lessen our oil dependence and remain competitive. All she could say was increasing CAFE standards would kill jobs. Over and over.

I couldn't get through that the Big Three were foolishly focusing all their efforts on the high margin SUV/truck markets and that the auto industry would implode if it didn't start aggressively improving the fuel efficiency of their products. Nothing could get through... improving fuel efficiency would improve national security, would improve our job prospects, would improve our environmental footprint. She clung tightly to the "better mileage means less jobs" meme that has been drilled-into her.

[awoke_in_2003]

292. "where most of the stupid live"

I take one exception to your post- we (Texas) have many more stupid people than you :)

[mrcheerful]

306. LOL don't forget that alot of stupid people from michigan moved down to Texas

when Ronnie Reagan told them it was the bestest place to live and work.

[awoke_in_2003]

309. Believe it or not

I think most of is due to the invasion from the north. You especially see it on the roads. Used to be, people drove courteously and used blinkers and didn't tailgate. It gets worse every year. (disclaimer- I am a reformed yankee, but I adapted when I got here.)

[fbuzz]

20. yardwork Is Exactly The Type of Liberal That Turns America Off

Strawman concepts all around. Manipulating and twisting. You are so out of touch, dear.

[yardwork]

24. I'm not your dear and you're welcome to take a hike if I turn you off.

[butterfly77]

83. Thank you, Yardwork...

keep on speaking the truth..

[yardwork]

140. Thank you. And you really are a dear!

:pals:

[krkaufman]

179. chuckle. I think the "type of liberal that turns America off" are those condescending liberals ...

... who address those with whom they're arguing or debating as "dear."

[NanBo]

193. Yes, we liberals must be careful

not to 'turn off' anyone. Goodness what a crock.

[GoldieAZ49]

21. Black or White they have a right to say what they want

and if Obama wants "One "radical" black preacher" as his mentor and spiritual adviser that is his choice and he is free to do so.

The voters are responsible for who they elect, David Duke or anyone else.


If the voters choose not to vote for Obama because he is the protege of "One "radical" black preacher" that is their choice and they are free to do so.

He can emulate Wright all he wants, just not in the White House.

[yardwork]

30. The scary scary black man and his scary black preacher. /sarcasm

I mean, really.

[ginnyinWI]

32. but he's no protege, that's what's so striking.

He in no way ever sounds like Wright. That's why this thing won't stick.

[GoldieAZ49]

41. well of course not, do you think he would have had gotten past the first debate

if he had?

Obama said Wright was his mentor, so yes he is his protege

Mentorship refers to a developmental relationship between a more experienced mentor and a less experienced partner referred to as a protégé—a person guided and protected by a more prominent person.

[yardwork]

44. There's nothing wrong with having a mentor who is a radical.

Obama's policies are clearly not radical. In fact, they are moderate-right.

If Wright has been Obama's mentor, I can only conclude that he's had minimal impact on Obama's views, as Obama himself clearly doesn't believe most of what we've seen in these videos.

[krkaufman]

181. "emulate"? n/t

[psychmommy]

190. how is he his protege?

my preacher isn't my mentor. he is my preacher. he preaches the word, i don't always agree with him. it makes me read the bible to check behind him. the preacher that baptized me, had dinner at my grandmoms house was later asked to leave the church. how was his behavior a reflection of me. i have no control over what my pastor says or does. obama says he doesn't agree with him. hill didn't agree w/gerri so she said. i have to take her and him at their word. do we condemn all the parishioners at the catholic church when their priest rapes a kid? do we condemn pastor hagee's congregation because he brought slavery back- as a fund raiser for his church affiliated school?

[fbuzz]

23. Yes, The Gays and The Jews That Wright Hates, Must Also Not Know The Feeling

yardwork, please stop throwing yourself under buses, with your white guilt.

[yardwork]

27. I'm queer so I've already been thrown off the bus - that bus has rode off.

If I bother you so much, don't hang out on my thread.

[NorthernSpy]

213. Back this shit up with proof, or eat your words.

Your choice.

[IndianaJones]

29. lol.nt

[dcindian]

31. I agree whole heartedly.

Though I am only half white. I am a very pale skinned Native who lives in the white world in every way therefore I do not understand first hand what it is the minorities go through. That doesn't stop me from seeing the racial divide right here on DU.

It is disgusting the bite back people of a minority race and their supporters took when they took offense to the racial bigotry the Clinton surrogates have been spewing. I am ashamed that Hillary supporters on this board act worse then the republicans I work with when it comes to racial issues.

I cannot for the life for me figure out what actual progressive issues Hillary supporters support?

[Texas Hill Country]

35. It is not that he disagrees, its that he wears a tinfoil hat and spews hate

and i freaked out when Duke got elected too.

[yardwork]

39. "spews hate"...."tinfoil hat"

It's so easy to remake the facts and attach loaded terms to them.

[uponit7771]

40. What did Wright say that in that sermon that wasn't true!?!?!?!?

[Texas Hill Country]

How bout the US started the AIDS virus to keep the black man down...

[yardwork]

52. That's an opinion. It's probably wrong, but it's not really hateful.

Nobody knows what caused the HIV virus to become so virulent. Personally, I doubt the U.S. government did it, but its possible. The U.S. government has been creating secret biological weapons for a long time. I know this for a fact.

Somebody in the U.S. government created that weapon-grade anthrax powder that ended up in Tom Daschle's office. That was no amateur.

[Texas Hill Country]

62. wow... seriously... that is how far you can twist your logic to support this guy?

[yardwork]

65. I bet your pardon? I'm expressing my opinion.

I have a feeling that you would faint if you knew the rest of my views. We appear to represent polar opposites on the political spectrum.

[Texas Hill Country]

77. I am liberal, very much so, I just dont believe in pop-conspiracy theory...

if that makes us so different... that is fine with me. I can handle it LOL

[butterfly77]

87. So, I guess you are saying that...

we should not support Obama because his pastor said some things that you see as racist and told a lot of truth about this country that we all know but some don't want to hear.


So who should we choose Hillary because her friend Ferraro says blacks are not ready, and should not run for president, or McCain and his friends Hagee,Robertson,Parsley and a host of others.. Tell us who should we choose and why?

[Solon]

115. That's pretty much the ONLY thing I will disagree with you on...

mostly because no it was NOT possible, period. The Government did NOT have the technology to create or modify any of the *IV viruses. Hell, at the time, the WORLD scientific community didn't even know that such viruses exist. This is like putting blame for the Tunguska event on a secret atomic bomb test, its ridiculous, and not remotely reasonable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event

[yardwork]

142. I said that I doubted it. I was just pointing out that I wouldn't put it past certain departments.

I'm familiar with Tunguska - amazing, isn't it?

Yes, I agree that it is very very unlikely that any government deliberately created the HIV virus. It's been a rumor in the black community for a long time, unfortunately. Given the things that the U.S. government has done to black people, I don't blame them for wondering.

[bagrman]

196. As I recall

They figured out that the virus was carried by monkeys that were being captured for laboratories or just food and they bit their captors and the virus took off from there. As for the government wanting to wipe out people , I think they will use something that acts quicker.

[NorthernSpy]

215. Hey -- if it gets people to stop taking risks...

If a little tinfoil helps shut down AIDS (and new infections among blacks have been DROPPING at about 5% per year for several years), is that such a terrible thing?


:shrug:

[justinsb]

38. It's not really about Wright

I think that the Clinton camp, having no luck running against Obama would now like to run against Wright instead - at least for awhile.

[uponit7771]

42. True, I thank god that Wright came out now and not 2 days before PA primarys. On the other hand....

...on conservative blogs they are patting McCaint on the back for taking the high road on the preacher issue.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. You're right about one thing. I'm sure glad they remember how to feel outrage.

[TwilightGardener]

45. It's really strange. Are we all afraid of a slave uprising or something?

Jesus, it's just a black pastor venting anger about racial injustice in his own venue, among his own people--why would this bother anyone? I figure this stuff goes on all the time.

[yardwork]

49. It's astounding to me to see the level of...wimpiness.

[JohnnyLib2]

46. Recommended, because you are listening.

One man speaks. Thousand or millions react and overreact . There really is a connection!

[msedano]

47. misleading headline, bro...

It should read something like, "some white people". I'm sure there are at least five or six who aren't all upset. OK, several hundred thousand. Some of my best friends and all that, and still a few get their hackles up when incidents like this roil the placid waters of our fantasy that we lived through the 50s and 60s and got all that racism out of our system. Even today, I'll be out to dinner someplace and I'll chat with the wait staff in Spanish and draw resentful looks from folks at neighboring tables when I get more coffee. Last time I was in Atlanta a diner in McCormick & Schmick told me I should speak "American" in an "American" restaurant. I really pissed off the white guy when I pointed out Mexico is in America. Remember that Reader's Digest feature, "Life in these United States"? That's an everyday slice of life in these United States.

recommended.

[yardwork]

50. I know it's only some white people - but they're the ones I'm talking about.

I'm a woman, too, but you can call me "bro" as long as it's meant kindly!

[msedano]

116. my apologies, yardwork. my own

stereotype rises to the surface that gente who do yardwork are male. compounded by the fact my grasscutters were out in the yard right now cutting the grass and it pisses me off they weedwhacked my saffron crocus because it resembles grass, sis. carnala. hermana. compañera...

enough with the excuses. i am sorry for offending you.

[yardwork]

143. You didn't offend me at all. I get confused for a male all the time here!

As you say, there's something about the name "yardwork" that seems to conjure up images of a guy cutting his lawn, maybe with a cold brew in his hand....lol!

My ex-husband used to cut down my daffodils before they bloomed. He thought they were weeds or long grass. He's a wonderful guy in all other respects (we split because I'm queer - not his fault).

[latinolatteliberal]

101. me gustó tu respuesta en el restaurante

You should have seen the looks I got when walking hand in hand with a white ex-gf in Kansas City. Or the stories that some latino lawyer friends of mine tell about judges, bailiffs and opposing counsel assuming they are the defendants/asylum seekers/whatnot, or of people giving me their food order when we are on opposite sides of a two-sided buffet table. Ridiculous. And that's the soft variety of racism, right?

Then again, I grew up listening to stereotypes about chinitos, morenos, árabes, gabachos and so on. As stupid as it may sound, I was actually surprised to see so many intelligent white people when I got to college. I think I've matured quite a bit since then.

So yeah, no group is homogenous and we could all use some improvement.

[msedano]

125. unitedstatesians have a tough time

being americans, in the wider sense of the term, que no? we're not the only ones. i used to confound the heck out of the KATUSA when I was in the Army and 'splained them that Canadians and Mexicans were also "American". http://www.readraza.com/foto/pages/khwdeng_JPG.html

Yeah, I've seen those looks, a lot. I generally treat mistaken tipos with kindness when they want to order something, unless they're rude. Here's a great story if you have a moment.

i was having breakfast at Olvera Street in El Lay one morning. It was the blessing of the animals so there were all sorts of gente dragging pets through the quaint Mexican village street. I chatted up the waiter and we enjoyed a Spanish laugh or two, then my food arrived. I eat with tortillas, and as I was enjoying my repast, this blonde seated nearby told her husband, quite loudly, "look at that guy eat. It looks like he hasn't eated in days!" and they enjoyed the bit of local color I provided. Just then, a woman sat down on a bench near my table and exclaimed, "what are all these animals doing here?" I leaned over and informed her it was the blessing of the animals and all these people had just been over at the church having their animals blessed. The blonde reacted with puro shock; her neck withdrew into her shoulders so fast i thought she might get whiplash. she remained hunched over like that, refusing eye contact as I stood to leave.

[latinolatteliberal]

129. here's another one

I don't know if this is really a story of cultural chauvinism, but it sure made me uncomfortable.

When I was 14 my dad and I drove from LA to Texas and then south to la Ciudad de México. On reentry to los EE.UU. we had to pass through those inspection gates, obviously. Well, the customs officer was a real piece of work. Seeing as how we are brown and entering from México, he decides to speak to us in his garbled Spanish. I'm a big fan of bilingualism and beyond, but his Spanish was atrocious. My dad responded to him in English. And this is where it got interesting. My dad's English is not always the most intelligible. Having moved to gabacholandia as an adult, he still has a heavy accent. Add to that the fact that mechanical engineers tend to be poor communicators, and it was a recipe for disaster.

The officer continued speaking broken Spanish, my dad continued speaking heavily-accented English, and the whole damn thing took forever. From an efficiency perspective the officer should have spoken English and my dad Spanish. Of course, nobody gave a damn about efficiency. The officer was trying to put my dad in his place and my dad was refusing.

I was proud of my dad for that, but it was a sad reminder of the way race/language colors our interactions here in the land of the brave.

[NOLALady]

216. Have you also been mistaken for

'The Gardener' while working in your yard?

[latinolatteliberal]

218. haha. no.

Mowing the lawn was my main chore as a kid and I hated it. Mostly because it wasn't so much about cutting the grass as it was about kicking up mountains of dust and getting covered in it. Poorly designed mower, I guess.

I've deplored yard work since then. I guess I'm lazy or something.

[yardwork]

234. You deplore Yardwork?! I hope to change your mind!

Silly joke. Sorry. Smile.

[latinolatteliberal]

241. I knew that'd come up!

:thumbsup:

[yardwork]

231. Welcome to DU!

[latinolatteliberal]

242. thanks!

glad to be here

[Zynx]

51. David Duke didn't get elected. He was defeated.

Btw, my ancestry is poor, Irish, and Polish. I'm white, but my ancestors came from nothing and overcame systemic discrimination. I don't have to apologize for anything. I am appalled when I am lumped in the same class as the Bushs.

[yardwork]

53. David Duke was elected to at least one term, and McCain has a similar guy working his campaign.

Nobody is asking you to apologize for anything. I'm pointing out how hysterical a bunch of people here on DU are about the words - some of them twenty years old - of a black preacher. Come on, people. This is not the end of the world.

[Zynx]

55. Of what? It wasn't governor. EDIT: Louisiana House of Reps, but that

is not a major office. Come on. Crazy fuckers hold small offices everywhere.

[yardwork]

63. Reverend Wright doesn't hold any elected office at all.

[KamaAina]

204. Funny story on Dukkke's lone term in the La. House

The House has 101 seats (so as, hopefully, to avoid ties). The reps (well, 100 of them, anyway) sit at 50 two-seater desks, with one lone single desk left over.

Guess who got assigned to the single desk?????

[sniffa]

56. Sorry, you are part of the problem

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5065371

[Zynx]

67. I'm sorry, I don't see it that way.

I am not insensitive to discrimination, I am simply saying I am not part of the group that has created the environment of discrimination and I am tired of being lumped into it. Whites are not a monolithic entity and I resent being labeled as such. I really do. I am not a rich, fat cat, Ivy League elitist trying to keep people out of my social club. I am interested in always leveling the playing field for everyone and view everyone as having equal worth regardless of race, gender, religion, income, or geographical location.

[fascisthunter]

73. big shit... my ancestry was poor as well. It Means NOTHING

[BlackVelvet04]

57. How incredibly silly......

you obviously don't get it and never will.

[yardwork]

66. Laugh out loud!

I really like your little feminist logo. That's a nice touch.

[fascisthunter]

59. Spot on....

[SeaLyons]

61. No, I think people in general get upset

when they hear hate. I think most Americans get pretty damned upset when they hear someone say God Damn America!!!

[yardwork]

69. Oh it's just awful, isn't it? The sky is falling! I've never heard such hate!!!!

That is, until I listened to Geraldine Ferraro's comments the other day.

[SeaLyons]

78. no comparison and you know it

...you can minimize it 'til the cows come home...doesn't change it.

[hay rick]

220. damned upset

People should be upset when they see this story repeated hundreds of times. Does this coverage qualify as a corporate donation to the McCain campaign? Mainstream media wants to throw logs on this fire and then try to get credit for wringing their hands in distress. Anybody wonder how a clueless clown like GWB got nominated, elected, and re-elected?

[EffieBlack]

64. LOL!

You are dead on!!!

[wndycty]

68. You are wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

There are not a ZILLION PEOPLE ON DU!

K&R

[yardwork]

72. LOL! Are there a brazillion?

[oasis]

71. Obama's good news: Most DUers are okay with Wright's hate filled rantings

Obama's bad news: Pennslyvanians.

[Swamp Rat]

74. LOLOLOL!!!!

:rofl: Yeah yardwork! :kick:

:applause:

[yardwork]

75. Thank you! I am honored that you posted images in my thread!

I couldn't remember the idiot's name either, so thanks for that as well.

John C. Hagee - the nice pastor who is going around with Republican nominee for president John McCain. Where's the outrage over Reverend Hagee's comments? Crickets.

[Swamp Rat]

97. "Where's the outrage over Reverend Hagee's comments?"

No shit! x(

Maybe some of the candidate 'supporters' here are not really Democrats or Progressives, or candidate supporters. ;)

[Moochy]

282. Hey When will Rush be forced to Step down

from hillary's campaign staff?

She should send him a thank you letter, at the very least for all those votes!

:hi: Swamp Rat! excellent imagery as always!

[yardwork]

76. Kick for SwampRat's image.

[ClayZ]

100. Swamp Rat nails it again!

Woooooot!


K and R

[From The Left]

79. The Hillbots are the New Patriots. Scary

[JAbuchan08]

91. Damn right, all the "blame America first" accusations seem really familiar

Like I've heard them from a certain other political party before.

Now where was that...?

[sudopod]

81. I lol'd

It's also funny because the same thing comes out of the mouths of white preachers in the (OMG) South all the time.
The main difference is that when they're damning us to hell it's because of abortion or gay rights instead of poor people going hungry.

:p

[yardwork]

326. Welcome to DU! Very good point.

[CakeGrrl]

82. Thanks for making this point

I hope you and other white voters (I'm a black female) can get out there and be a voice of reason.

My father and I have had a couple of chats since Obama showed signs of being a contender in Iowa and the wins kept on coming. As a black man who went through some serious racism - he's 80 - he knows what Obama faces, and we talked about how this campaign would bring out the fears in people, depending on which one is stronger within that individual.

It's been a fascinating and strange litmus test; a social experiment that doesn't have overly surprising results. Among what used to be fellow Democrats, we see people aliging along more basic lines, but as far as I've read, race is far and away the more divisive and powerful driving force.

It's strking how much the arguments of Clinton supporters are almost indistinguishable from those made by Freepers during the 2000/2004 elections. I agree that this latest kitchen sink tactic (I strongly believe that Clinton operatives helped bring back the Wright issue front and center because nothing else seems to be turning voters away from Obama) is the latest effort in divide, (scare) and conquer on the part of the Clinton campaign.

For all the claims that some people make of being progressive, some people (some!!!) are extremely quick to scare when it comes to the idea of getting the black man angry - it's just not something to which they'll ever admit, just as white friends will tell me what some fellow whites will say or do when they're amongst their own. You could go on for days and days about how that might be rooted in an unspoken fear of retaliation for slavery or Jim Crow or atrocities like the Tuskeegee Syphilis Experiment, but it's there. I think it's a simple, elemental fear of being outnumbered or ganged up on, which is an alien concept for the majority demographic in American society.

[yardwork]

147. Thank you for your post. I agree with you that there's a fear of losing the majority.

For some people - I too emphasize the word some - it's ok for blacks and other minorities to have some power as long as they have less power than whites. Or, it's ok for religious people to say odd things as long as those religious people are white and are generally reinforcing the values of mainstream white America.

When faced with true multiculturalism, requiring us to hear and share power with people who think differently, some people get very upset.

[bvar22]

84. K&R

:patriot:

BTW: I was in Louisiana when Duke ran for governor against Edwin Edwards who later went to jail.
I had a bumpersticker that said:

Vote for the CROOK!
Its Important!

David Duke LOST.

[yardwork]

149. I remember that! And I bet you remember who took Duke's state district away from him.

David Vitter was elected to the state district that David Duke held. Then Vitter got elected to the U.S. senate.

[David Zephyr]

86. LOL! You've put the proper perspective on all of this false outrage.

It's revealing to me also to read some of the posts here.

Thanks for your perspective.

[MS68]

88. We're thinking ahead...

Most of us here can handle what the preacher said or will say and can even agree with some of it - or even a good portion of it. The real issue is - how is it going to go over during the GE? How many people will it turn off? We've seen that a proven evil idiot can still win - or come close enough to winning that it's possible to steal the election - it might not take turning that many people off to lose.

It's politics and unfortunately, you have to be political and politically correct - you can't offend a good portion of the population with inflammatory language and expect to win. Maybe you can, but it's probably not a good idea. And his sermons, while inspirational to the black community don't exactly exude unity, working together and change, which is what I thought Obama supposedly stood for.

[yardwork]

148. Wright is not running for president. He's a preacher.

White candidates have crazy-ass preachers trailing behind them all the time. Check out the guy following McCain around right now. It's never been a big deal until it was a black preacher and a black candidate.

If people can't handle Obama's minister, then maybe those same people really are not ready for a black president. And that's a shame. I thought that the campaign of hope and change and unity had more power than that.

[JAbuchan08]

89. As a white person

I find a lot of DU to be an embarassment to my race. On the one hand Obama isn't "black enough" to speak for black people, on the other hand if he persumes to represent them he is playing the race card.

It's a no-win situation for him, and a position that Hillary and her supporters are only too happy to put him in.

[Basement Beat]

90. Great point!

I would rec. your post if I had enough posts to!

[yardwork]

236. Thank you, and welcome to DU!

[jgraz]

92. I have to disagree

This has nothing to do with white privilege or closet racists or hysterics. This has everything to do with the Clintons' willingness to throw every possibly attack at Obama and see what sticks.

They people on this board who are expressing outrage couldn't care less about the content of Rev. Wright's comments. They just see a scary, angry black man who they can use to scare the shit out of the uneducated, inbred, borderline retarded Fox News junkies who have now become Hillary's base.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

102. and the Repukes are going to use it 24/7 against Obama if he is the nom..Clinton is NOT the blame

She did NOT make those videos...time to get real here

[jgraz]

105. And the Clinton supporters will be helping them every step of the way, won't you?

Does it bother you in the least to see so many supposed Democrats positively gleeful at the prospect of a virulent racist backlash against one of our candidates?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

106. it's called a PRIMARY

[jgraz]

110. Yes, and last I checked these PRIMARIES were carried out with a minimal sense of propriety

At least on our side of the aisle.

[chascarrillo]

238. It's called HUMAN DECENCY

k?

[MS68]

107. If Obama gets the nomination

I will contribute to his campaign and vote for him and hope to God he wins. I contributed to and voted for Hillary in the primary I don't think your statement is a fair one.

[jgraz]

109. Agreed. It is not a fair statement to apply it to all Clinton supporters

It is also not accurate to say that there are not QUITE A FEW Clinton supporters engaging in the "2012 strategy".

[northzax]

99. daivd duke was elected President?

damn, I missed that. when?

[NOLALady]

207. Actually,

David Duke is a former Republican member of the Louisiana House of Representatives.

[mzmolly]

267. Yes and we "white people" here defended him because we are all alike.

"Privileged, racist, slave holders children." Yep, that's us white folk. :D

[cliffordu]

103. K AND R!!!

You hit it right on the head. Thanks!

:kick:

[DearAbby]

108. My Dad

as I wrote yesterday was a racist, not the mean sort. Just raised in a different time different place. It was accepted, taken for granted. Unspoken.

I watched with him, the news, when Blacks were being escorted to school with whites, as Blacks in Mississppi were being hosed brutally. How Blacks were arrested for daring to sit at a counter with whites. I was young, but was appalled by this treatment. But He was scared. Really, He was scared of these turn of events.

People like Martin Luther King, and Bobby Kennedy scared my father. I guess they made him look inside himself, and he didnt like what he saw. He was also scared, being a uneducated man, one with an eighth grade education, what his pecking order would be.

There was a line in Mississppi burning, I believe... "If you aint better than a black man..." I think this is how my father felt. He wasnt a bad man, he had a heart of gold, wouldn't hurt a soul. But he was frightened by change, also frightened by the fact that he was wrong.

He was my mentor, and inspiration in many ways. I love my Father. He is gone now. My Father was a racist. Should I denounce and reject my father? He taught me so much...he even taught me, not to be a racist myself, and I work on that.

rambling on..

[CitizenLeft]

112. wonderful post

Bless you and your Dad. His love is what made you reject the racism.:hug:

[Ddan]

145. Thank you

There will always be people that we look up to that will do or say things that we don't approve of. Your fater should be your mentor and inspiration. You should LEARN from other people's mistakes and shortcomings. . . .

[yardwork]

151. Thank you so much for your post. You've said the truth for so many of us.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

166. I think we are seeing a potential generational thing here...

as well. I grew up with a Grampa that sounds exactly like your Dad -- he was a good man who never made it past 8th grade and had the misfortune to grow up in Kansas at a time when bigotry was the norm. He used racist language and held bigoted ideas about blacks. That was the point of view in my house at a time the country was undergoing massive civil unrest, especially around race. So I watched my Grampa react to what was happening much as your Dad did -- the world they had known to that point was process of being destroyed and they were finding out the bigotry they had grown up with was actually wrong.

I don't think anyone who was not a witness to the "before and after" of the civil rights movement can truly "get" what Pastor Wright wss saying about blacks in America.

It is one thing to read about it in books, or see the old footage of the lunch counter protests, but you cannot deeply understand it unless you were there. I think many whites born after '75 might wonder about the hard truths and passion the Pastor was bringing to his message -- their experience of blacks in America has been markedly different then what we saw and experienced growing up.

My Mom "gets" it -- she is part Native and she would tan something fierce during the summers she spent as a little girl in Florida at the Army base. When she would travel in the south she was often thought to be "colored", and her and my Grandma were often refused service.

In 1978, when I was 14, my Grampa died. All of his sisters came out from Kansas for the funeral. I watched four out of five of them leave the room when a black friend of ours (yup, Gramps had come around eventually) came by to pay his respects to my Nana. 1978.

I "get" it.

[ekwhite]

274. Thanks for that post Abby

I grew up in the South around that time. My father sounds a lot like yours. He is still alive, but won't be much longer. I'm glad you pointed out the fear that poor whites felt, and still feel, and how that helps to drive their racism. I feel sympathy for their plight. What I can't forgive is the politicians who cynically manipulate their fear and racism to gain power.

[AX10]

111. The Jews had a problems for 2000 years and still.

they managed to survive and prosper quite well.

[Solon]

117. I vote this as the dumbest fucking post in this thread.

Seriously, this is just fucked up!

[AX10]

123. It's true. They managed to survive somehow...

and they do take very good care of their communities.
I have the utmost respect for them for this reason.
I am not buying into your left wing "white guilt" nonsense.

[Solon]

126. Are we supposed to ignore the Pogroms? How about the Inquisition?

Or the Holocaust. You know, Jews lived in cloistered communities for the longest time to SURVIVE, but always with a dagger poised over their heads. Literally they had to fear the Christians surrounding them because if an outbreak of any disease occurred, they knew they would be subjected to a mob at the gates of their villages that would kill them all and burn the village down. That is the type of shit they have had to deal with for 2000 years or so, and we are supposed to dismiss that history?

[ReasonsMommy]

141. Are you kidding me?

Do black people not take care of their community? Do you have no respect for black people?

WOW!

[NOLALady]

194. You do not respect Black people?

So you support Hillary. Got it.

[NorthernSpy]

209. blacks survived YOU...

Hundreds of years of YOU -- armed, hostile, and ready to destroy them for not smiling if they couldn't dodge your spit fast enough.

[aaronbees]

226. Thank you for saying that

It's the myopic, me-first, how-dare-you-get-uppity, pick-yourselves-up-by-the-bootstrap racism of so many posters here at DU this week that has fucking appalled me. It's as if hundreds of years of racist history in America, which African-Americans still live daily, is just nothing to those people who laughably accuse Obama of "playing the race card," attack Obama for Jeremiah Wright's words and defend Ferraro. What a hideous, though certainly eye-opening, week of posts here.

And you put it exactly right.

[yardwork]

237. Thank you.

[mzmolly]

268. How far do we go back into the anals of history/slavery

in order to justify hate?

[Guava Jelly]

118. The only ones acting like a fool are those who want to see Obama fail miserably

It is sickening and sadly desperate..

[dchill]

119. K & R!

:thumbsup:

[Solon]

120. I've said much of the same things as this reverend in relation to 9/11...

and similar things. Of course, I referred to it as "blowback" and found it ironic that it happened on the anniversary of the overthrow of Allende in Chile, which the U.S. engineered.

The only thing I really have strong disagreement with is the whole HIV was created by the Government to kill black people thing, but mostly because it was scientifically impossible for the government to do that at the time. Would the government have done it? Yes they would, but that doesn't mean they did, or could do it, it wasn't possible at the time.

[Chovexani]

288. My problem with the crackpot HIV conspiracy theories

Is the simple fact that it was totally unnecessary. The government already cooked shit up to destroy the black community, it's called crack, and it's a hell of a lot easier to control the distribution of than a virus.

I've heard various people talk this crap since I was a kid, it has never made sense, it will never make sense on any level--sociologically, scientifically, whatever. Yes the government's incompetent as hell but even it could come up with a better plan.

This is Tony Brown's Journal level crackpot horseshit and it amazes me that there are still black folks who believe it, much less pastors preaching it.

[JuniperLea]

121. It's the hypocrisy... eom

[blues90]

122. One thing I am so sick of

Is when whites are generalized as all being of the same group when the fact is we are not all racist .

Leave the term whites out and replace it with all the groups of racist people . People are racist in general .

[yardwork]

154. I did not intend to generalize this as all whites.

I'm white myself and obviously don't feel this way, and neither do the many, many white posters on DU and out in the non-cyber world who continue to support Obama. And even those folks who support another candidate for any reason other than being scared off by a black preacher.

The folks I'm talking about know who I'm talking about.

[blues90]

159. I really was not directing my comment at you

I am really tired of the idea that whites are all in the same group and generalized as one group .

People that play the race card no matter what race they are , are the true racists of the world and they make it the focal point in most issues . Bring religion into this and fires break out all over the globe .

[angie_love]

124. You are absolutely right however we unfortunately need a majority of those white votes to win.

[mathewsleep]

127. what are you talking about?

it's hard being white, we've been mistreated for years. it's even harder being white and male. i feel repressed.

black people should count them selfs lucky. we've been so good to them over the years.

oprah's rich, right? so they have no right to criticize us poor white people.

[yardwork]

153. LOL! It's my bud!

Hoya doing today?

[mathewsleep]

160. i'm feeling a little oppressed today.

[yardwork]

239. I understand. It's tough.

[gaspee]

131. I agree with the dude

The problem is that he makes Obama unelectable.

Hell, I'm a huge Chomsky and Zinn fan and I know that no one who used them as advisors could win the presidency.

I'm angry that we D's are going to lose the goddamned election because of this!

[grantcart]

137. who knew lol

[mrreowwr_kittty]

139. K and R!

[Lucky 13]

146. I worry for Barack sometimes.

I just get concerned for Barack and Michelle on a personal level. I worry about these xenophobic, racist nutters and what they are capable of - especially with OUR OWN PARTY stoking the fires of racism. Not that I would EVER want him to be deterred from the Presidency or to back down from these fuckers even an inch.

[elixir]

157. And more people on DU got pissed when Ferarro stated the facts...

[Alexander]

165. The facts? Like Obama being lucky because he's black?

I suppose that's a fact if you have a pointy hood in your closet.

:puke:

[krkaufman]

167. Unless there are more video clips than what I've seen ...

... I'm having a hard time arguing against the content of what Wright was saying.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=105359&mesg_id=105488

The only controversy I see is whether Wright was advocating a particular candidate within the church.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

168. I'm supporting O'Bama because he's Irish!

but really I'm supporting Obama because he is the best person for the job of President regardless of his heritage, color, sex etc.....

[bhikkhu]

171. A day will come when minorities can say "white people are running things"

and white people can reply - "pretty much", instead of the fear and loathing I have heard.

[IsItJustMe]

173. Dead on! People don't like to be called out on their own bull shit. I think some of this has to do

with how strongly people identify with their race. For me, it's just one more factor of who I am, but not the definitive factor.

[NOLALady]

178. Dayum!

It's unfracking believable.

[guidod]

180. Great Post!

[lligrd]

182. K&R

[knixphan]

183. Love ya, Yardwork!

'Be the change you want to see in the world'!

Si Se Puede!

You know we're close when the last few darts are aimed at our eyes.

Bring on McCain!

[yardwork]

240. Si Se Puede!

[FraDon]

184. On point! Ah, the innumerable things we, the sleeping privileged, take for granted.

Thanks for calling this out.

Here's another eye-opening take the subject:
How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev.

[NOLALady]

191. My husband has an Irish ancestor born c. 1810.

His records list him as a FPOC. The records also state that he and his parents were born in Ireland.

It was confusing until someone told me that the Irish weren't considered white at one time.

[arundhatiroyfan]

198. What does FPOC mean?

Thanks!

[NorthernSpy]

212. FPOC = Free Person Of Color

I think...

[NOLALady]

219. Right.

It's sometimes listed as FWC, FMC.

There was a large community of free people in early New Orleans. Many came from San Doming after the Revolution.

[kdpeters]

186. Great post, yardwork

I feel essentially the same way.

[Laelth]

187. Good point.

Nothing I can add.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Radical Activist]

192. I'm amazed how how indignant other white people get

at the mere mention of racism or a black person actually being discriminated against. "Playing the race card" is one of the most vile phrases invented by the right wing. Its nothing but a cop-out to ignore racism.

[rodriguez94]

199. RACISM OR REVERSE RACISM....

Same difference...

One radical extreme is as bad as the opposite radical extreme...

[yardwork]

243. See post #203 by Northern Spy

[jeffrey_X]

200. Imagine serving your country for 8 years and then coming back to a country that

treats you like shit.

I can't imagine being an African American and serving in WWI, WWII, Korea or Vietnam.

[LisaL]

201. Whatever I have or don't have a "right to be upset"

I personally wouldn't want to vote for someone with those views.

[yardwork]

245. Reverend Wright is not running for office, and Senator Obama disagrees with him.

So it's really a non-issue.

[ChiciB1]

202. Hey, I'm White AND I've KNOWN This For A Very Very Long Time....

I actually think I mentioned this phenomena when Obama began to surge! Living down here in the south for most of my life, it's still here! Sure Obama will do well in the south right now, but come the GE... it's going to be a lot different I feel.

I may be wrong, I don't support either Clinton or Obama, so it really doesn't matter to me. But the Black/White issue is something I've ALWAYS found disgusting. I have black friends and some were reticent to associate with me because some said they don't "trust" whites. As time went on they realized I wasn't like many white people in the south!

There are some TRUE JERKS here, but then I guess they're everywhere. What will be will be... I no longer have an interest in this election, just making an observation about this issue.

[angie_love]

206. whites are the majority, you'd think they'd loosen up abit!

[OwnedByFerrets]

208. K & R

Very good post. Proud to Recommend

[Danger Mouse]

210. Many white people still think they should be handed everything on a silver platter.

It's true, a white person cannot possibly know what it's like to be a black person.

[bicentennial_baby]

211. Hell, some of my fellow caucasians think they own the platter too!

:)

[roseBudd]

214. lynching vs. the salem witch trials

Killing a few witches in one town in 1692, or slaughtering Africans and thereafter slaughtering African Americans

Salem Witch Trials

The two courts convicted twenty-nine people of the capital felony of witchcraft. Nineteen of the accused, fourteen women and five men, were hanged. One man, refusing to enter a plea, was ordered to be crushed to death under heavy stones. At least five more of the accused died in prison.

Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade

The Trans-Atlantic Slave trade resulted in a vast and as yet still unknown loss of life for African captives both in and outside of America. Approximately 8 million Africans were killed during their storage, shipment and initial landing in the New World.<26> The amount of life lost in the actual procurement of slaves remains a mystery but may equal or exceed the amount actually enslaved.<27> If such a figure is to be believed, the total number of deaths would be between 16 and 20 million.

Lynching

Lynching during the late 19th century in the United States, Great Britain and colonies, coincided with a period of high imperialistic violence and religious inspired protest which denied people participation in white dominated society on the basis of race or gender after the Emancipation Act of 1833

Mob violence became a tool for enforcing white supremacy and verged on systematic political terrorism. "The Ku Klux Klan, paramilitary groups, and other whites united by frustration and anger ruthlessly defended the interests of the Democratic Party, the avowed party of white supremacy. The magnitude of extralegal violence during election campaigns reached epidemic proportions, leading the historian William Gillette to label it guerilla warfare.

Lynchings declined briefly, but the practice took hold again with a vengeance by the end of the 19th century. Tuskeegee Institute records of lynchings between the years 1880 and 1951 show 3437 African-American victims, as well as 1293 white victims, nearly all of whom were registered Republicans. The largest single lynching incident in America's history was the murder of 280 African Americans in Colfax, Louisiana in 1873 known as The Colfax Massacre.

The number of lynchings peaked at the end of the 19th century, but these kinds of murders continued into the 20th century. African Americans resisted through protests, marches, writing of articles, rebuttals of so-called justifications of lynching, organizing women's groups against lynching, and organizing integrated groups against lynching. In addition African American playwrights produced fourteen anti-lynching plays from 1916 to 1935, ten of them by women. The frequency of lynching dropped in the 1930s. Most but not all lynchings ceased during the 1960s, but there were some dramatic cases of civil rights workers lynched in Mississippi.

Many people alive today are witness to atrocities and indignities inflicted on African Americans. I will never forget what I witnessed at an intersection in front of a predominantly black high school. Three black female teens were crossing and a white motorist yelled for all to hear, "get out of the road niggers"

I just can't be convinced that white women deserve a pity party. That white people are victims o9f reverse racism.

[mzmolly]

271. Are we having an oppression competition?

Jasus, WTH?

By the way, Barack Obama is of recent African heritage, his father was not a child of slaves. His "relatives" were not lynched. Why are we discussing this "race" in terms of "race and gender"?

Here's some "tit for tat," no pun intended.

http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/

Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend per year1 to three million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year.2

Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime.3

Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey.4
Nearly 25 percent of American women report being raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date at some time in their lifetime, according to the National Violence Against Women Survey, conducted from November 1995 to May 1996.5

Thirty percent of Americans say they know a woman who has been physically abused by her husband or boyfriend in the past year.6

In the year 2001, more than half a million American women (588,490 women) were victims of nonfatal violence committed by an intimate partner.7

Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 2001, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (588,490 total) and men accounted for approximately 15 percent of the victims (103,220 total).8

While women are less likely than men to be victims of violent crimes overall, women are five to eight times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate partner.9

In 2001, intimate partner violence made up 20 percent of violent crime against women. The same year, intimate partners committed three percent of all violent crime against men.10

As many as 324,000 women each year experience intimate partner violence during their pregnancy.11

Women of all races are about equally vulnerable to violence by an intimate.12

Male violence against women does much more damage than female violence against men; women are much more likely to be injured than men.13

The most rapid growth in domestic relations caseloads is occurring in domestic violence filings. Between 1993 and 1995, 18 of 32 states with three year filing figures reported an increase of 20 percent or more.14

Women are seven to 14 times more likely than men to report suffering severe physical assaults from an intimate partner.15

Domestic Homicides

On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day. In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner.16
Women are much more likely than men to be killed by an intimate partner. In 2000, intimate partner homicides accounted for 33.5 percent of the murders of women and less than four percent of the murders of men.17

Pregnant and recently pregnant women are more likely to be victims of homicide than to die of any other cause18 , and evidence exists that a significant proportion of all female homicide victims are killed by their intimate partners.19

Research suggests that injury related deaths, including homicide and suicide, account for approximately one-third of all maternal mortality cases, while medical reasons make up the rest. But, homicide is the leading cause of death overall for pregnant women, followed by cancer, acute and chronic respiratory conditions, motor vehicle collisions and drug overdose, peripartum and postpartum cardiomyopthy, and suicide.20

I wonder how many "all men suck" threads would stand here? Perhaps if we add the word "white" they'll be ok?

[parkeradison]

221. It's still a free country

America is still supposed to be a free country, right? So, Pastor Wright can say whatever he pleases, right?

[emilyg]

222. I don't care what he says against white people as much

as against America.

[katandmoon]

224. Damn right I'm upset -- PISSED -- and color has NOTHING to do with it

So please stop trying to make this a racial thing. That only shows that YOU see this in racial terms. I don't. I see it as Obama showing terrible judgment and a very troubling, way too belated awareness of the trouble his association with Wright was stirring up. Just reinforces my belief that Obama is not ready for prime time. And my belief in that has absolutely ZERO to do with his race.

[Name removed]

228. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

279. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stillcool]

233. so what is the prob?

I saw it, and I am really missing what you all are uptight about. A black man, preaching in a black church, talking about life as a black man in a white world. Does that upset you? Does the fact that he believes that American Policies created the blowback of 9/11? Was it the God Damn America for all the destruction our government has caused here and around the globe? Was it the God Damn America for flooding the streets with Cocaine? What was it?

[ginchinchili]

247. It's the fact that you have a preacher exacerbating racial tension...

in the name of God to the public. We complain when that sort of thing happens with conservative preachers. I'm sick of the double standards and hate mongering from both sides.

[stillcool]

251. Saying what?

that's what I want to know. What is it that the man said that you find so disturbing? I heard no "hate mongering" I heard the truth.

[yardwork]

246. You are aware that Obama has completely repudiated Wright's comments?

I don't see that Obama has shown terrible judgement at all. I'm a little disappointed that he spoke so harshly today about his former pastor, but I guess it will put this matter to rest.

[SunDrop23]

229. ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!

We whites like it when the coloureds just shut up.

:sarcasm:

[ginchinchili]

232. "Just get over it" does not apply to discrimination or hate speech

It applies to a sense of entitlement today for things that happened during another time and perpetrated by that have nothing to do with us today. This is a problem, but a sentiment held by a small minority of African Americans.

[grantcart]

244. wonder if all these folks should be able to own guns lol

[wolfgirl]

250. I'm not real fond

of what the Reverend said, but I certainly understand where he's coming from. I'm a white person from the deep south, and I've heard much worse from white ministers over the years...in my own church.

The media will hammer this over and over again and that's a shame on us all.

[ellisonz]

252. Yes. White People Scare Me.

And I'm white.

[mzmolly]

253. What the hell is it with all the "white people" posts?

What did the reverend say about "white people"?

As for David Duke, NO ONE here would defend his hate speech. NO ONE HERE should defend any kind of hate speech.

[spoony]

285. Yeah really

The irony, that some will probably never see, is how people can make these tremendously broad condemnations of "white people," then turn around in another thread and say how you can't judge people by association. I agree with that last part, btw, but I guess to some posters it's just dandy so long as they're slamming a whole race because of some of its members.

[mzmolly]

314. Perhaps we need a "white devil" discussion area?

A "self loathing white devils unite" kind of thing? :sarcasm:

Unbelievable. I'm so glad Obama didn't take the same tack that many of the supporters here have, he'd be done.

[How to be positive]

254. here's a Youtube you should see:

Barack the magic negro (I DIDN'T CREATE THIS: just the messenger)

[krawhitham]

256. They were looking for a reason not to vote for Obama

and if this it is, that is sad

[mzmolly]

313. I am voting for Obama, but this "white devil" shit is still

shit.

[lonestarnot]

257. :applause:

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[ClayZ]

258. K and R

[ksquire]

260. amen!!! look folks... Jim Crowe is only 40 years past.

[AgadorSparticus]

262. oh wow. you couldn't have said it any better. so k&r!!!!

[sushi]

276. I'm shocked

As an outsider, I'm shocked at how divided Americans are. I've lived there and I've visited a few times, and hope to visit again in November to experience election time.
I listened to Obama's pastor and Obama's interview on TV, and I can't believe that Obama doesn't know his pastor's POV, and if he does and didn't agree with him, why did he keep going to that church for so many years?

[Spiffarino]

277. I couldn't care less what he said about white people

My objection is how it hurt the Democrats' and America's best candidate.

Anything that would give the Presidency to another uber-white Republicon is a problem. Reverend Wright - however right he may be - is not helping. I'm glad he decided to retire, and he'll probably continue to do a lot of good in retirement.

Obama needs to be President. Please don't anybody fuck that up.

[Honeycombe8]

278. I care. I care when any "leader" spouts hatred toward any of the races in our country. nt

[Spiffarino]

315. I heard it. I didn't hear anything hateful.

What I gathered from his sermon was that there continues to be inequality in America. As a white person, I didn't feel offended in the least except when he said "God damn America."

A preacher calling on God to condemn the United States to Hell is a powerful statement within the religious community, and one that could derail Barack Obama's campaign. If he wants his fellow UCC member to become President - and maintain the legitimacy of his position - he needs to tone down the rhetoric.

[yardwork]

327. You realize that Reverend Wright said these things years ago, long before Obama ran for president?

Somebody did a lot of digging to find videos of things that Reverend Wright said years ago.

[Spiffarino]

335. No, I wasn't aware of that.

Well well well..."somebody's" oppo research team has been working overtime.

[yardwork]

336. Yes, I've noticed that the dates of the video clips haven't been publicized.

Most of them are from 2003 or even earlier.

[bridgit]

283. Really? OMG! So you're, serious? Right?

[meowomon]

286. "White" chick here and I agree

The preacher may be over the top, but he's right in many ways. I'll never know what it's like to be called a n!@@#r. I'll never know what it's like to live in a country where my people were slaves and had laws that institutionalize hatred of me because of the color of my skin. I can only imagine what it is like to walk in those shoes.

With a little hope and the knowlege that love is more powerful than hate, I am an Obama supporter. Maybe by the time I am ready to leave this world, we will have made it just a little better. I hope.

[earth mom]

287. White people are shocked because they don't like being blamed for something they didn't do.

I think many of us are surprised at the residual anger that lingers, when the majority of us aren't even the ones responsible for any of the shit that's gone on that has hurt African Americans.

IMO we are in a class war that has absolutely nothing to do with race.

White privilege is strictly the domain of the rich and powerful. The rest of us can fuck off as far as the powers that be are concerned.

Yet, white people are getting slammed as a whole group by the likes of Obamas pastor Wright who is a racist himself. :wtf:


Sorry, but I thought we were a helluva lot further along than this and it really pisses me off that we aren't.

[NOLALady]

302. Anyone surprised by the residual anger

hasn't been paying attention.

And no, privilege is NOT strictly the domain of the rich and powerful. It manifests itself in many ways that you are not consciously aware.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5065371


Wright is factual and he could have used the term TPTB. Maybe he said 'white people' because TPTB are white.

You're correct, the majority of white people are not responsible for this mess, but they benefit.

I'm also sorry that we are not further along. Relations began to move backwards with the Reagun years.

[earth mom]

318. Even Spike Lee said we are in a Class War in his film about Katrina.

During Katrina, the poor were treated exactly the same-all colors.

That Wright and Obama never speak out against the Class War really says a lot about them.

Edwards pointed out the class war. And he got pushed out of the race for the sake of a historic race between an African American and a woman. Which is outrageous IMO.

Furthermore, the term "white privilege" is divisive. It puts people on the defensive and it does nothing to unite those of us who are in the same boat.

Understand and accept that the crap that TPTB is dishing out to be the "Class War" it really is and WE WOULD ALL BE UNITED.



IMO, Obama is the wrong African American for the job. And it has nothing to do with racism but everything to do with Obama's shady behavior during his campaign plus Rezko and Wright.

I'd rather see Spike Lee run for president than Obama.


http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/whentheleveesbroke/interview.html

[mzmolly]

329. Bravo!

I can understand "anger" but I can't understand the mentality that "all white people" are eternally to blame for the actions of a few.

Thankfully Obama has not defended any racist comments.

[shenmue]

294. So if we don't like what he said, that means we're "sure of white privilege"?

Unbelievable. "Look at yourselves. How do you think black people feel when folks like David Duke get elected?!"

So people who don't like what he said are racist. It's okay to hate white people. You feel sorry for an asshole like him.

:eyes:

My God, what bullshit. This is ridiculous. If there's anything racist, it's the OP.

[roseBudd]

300. Wright never said I hate whites, being white I cannot justify what people of European descent,

Americans, Europeans & Australians have done, to aboriginal people, in the name of conquest, or to obtain free labor in the centuries that the Trans-Atlantic slave trade and slavery in this hemisphere occurred. It is reprehensible and if it doesn't take your breath away, you are probably a psychopath.

To try to force an equivalency between these historical facts and the Salem Witch trials, the Irish Potato famine, the Spanish Inquisition is grasping at straws.

Anyone who says with a straight face that elderly white women will perish if Clinton is not elected is laughable.

[NOLALady]

301. I need to listen to it again.

I didn't hear him say its OK to hate white people.

As a minister its just wrong to advocate hate, period.

[yardwork]

337. I didn't hear the clip where Reverend Wright said it was ok to hate anybody, including white people.

Do you have a link?

The point of my OP is that some people get extremely upset when they hear someone criticizing their group, but those same folks are generally ok with criticizing people who belong to other groups.

The level of outrage on DU - it's gone on for days now, over the rhetorical words spoken years ago by a fire-brand minister is out of all proportion. It's absurd. It's silly. It would make me laugh if it weren't so pathetic to see folks defending their right to be outraged by Reverend Wright's words - when those same posters rarely speak out against criticism of other groups.

It's a sign that some folks still think that they are privileged to the point of being above criticism.

[ms liberty]

297. White, southern and female here...

I don't think he said anything too out of line. I pretty much agree with him, and he was factually accurate on much of what he said. I've only seen the clips myself and I can't make a judgment on him based solely on that, but my opinion on what I've seen is a big "So?". I certainly won't fault Obama for something his preacher said...I've heard stuff I found far more offensive from white evangelical (faux)christians, and RW conservatives - and we've had their messages of hate shoved down our throats on the radio and tevee, and newspapers and magazines, for the last 8, 16, okay, 25, almost 30 years now. That would be the majority of my lifetime that I've been hearing worse bullshit, lies, half-truths, and deceptions from people who are white like me. Why should I manufacture outrage at hearing some truth from a man whose skin is black?

[4dsc]

298. To imply one is white or black is to imply RACISM...

When will you people learn that we are not black or white.. We are all people of color.. To say one is black or white is to imply racism..

Food for thought..

[NOLALady]

299. This is a construct that was established long ago.

It is up to us to dismantle it one step at a time.

[Marie26]

310. For real

So, so scary! It's like people are shocked to discover that Obama might care about racial oppression instead of just wanting "unity" and rainbows and smiles and no blame, ever. It actually bothers me a little more that Obama is trying to disavow Wright now. This man mentored him, guided him, influenced his political philosophy & helped him to find his identity. And now people want him to throw Wright under the bus? Act like he never knew the man? Never listened to a sermon? Blah. Obama should tell people that this is who he is, take it or leave it.

[yardwork]

328. I agree with you, but Obama is a politician.

I'm disappointed to see Obama refuting Wright in such strong terms, but based on the reaction here on DU and the barrage on the cable channels, I guess Obama had to do that. Sad.

I still support Obama for president and I'd really like to meet Reverend Wright or at least hear one of his sermons!

[Quixote1818]

330. I am going to give this it's 100 recomendation! Love it! nt

[Quixote1818]

331. Dam, too late. nt

[McCamy Taylor]

333. The press "played" Wright after Ferraro on purpose to anger Hillary supporters.

This is not about race for the Hillary supporters. It is about the different way that they perceive the left wing press like KO have covered the two stories. Hillary was pilloried for not immediately denouncing, rejecting, firing Ferraro. She was tarred by association, accused of using Ferraro as a surrogate to voice her own views. KO scolded her with a special comment that if some people in America took offense eve if she did not mean for them to take offense it was still her fault, because a good person would make sure never to give offense . Obama was invited on the show to offer his opinion. He was allowed to gracefully distance himself from Wright. The left wing accepted his explanation that Wright's views did not reflect his own. No one told him that he had to make sure that he never gave offense to any American.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

338. I never said black people should get over it.

I have a problem with Rev. Wright saying "white people". He never quantifies it. So it could be ALL white people or MOST white people or white people IN GENERAL are responsible for all the problems of black people. Yes, black people are horribly discriminated against, but NOT ALL white people are prejudiced against black people.


Clarence Thomas blames white liberals for all his problems. He got where he is from the white liberal idea of affirmative action. He thinks his Harvard Law Degree is worth 15 cents according to his autobiography. So why doesn't he resign from the Supreme Court?


That is an extremely broad brush. That's an incorrect generalization.
It's not helping to heal racial divides. He's not interested in sitting down and talking to white people about our common past.


I personally have never treated a black person badly and neither have my parents.


Racism is only one part of the prejudice in society. There is also rampant sexism and classism. Rich white guys hold all the cards. And there are very few of them, so most of us are being discriminated against for some reason.


If he thinks Hillary has not been put through hell on earth because she hasn't been called the n-word, then he is an unfeeling bastard. He must hate women if he can't see sexism. There is sexism against men too. So-called humor that states that "All men are bad" or "All women are bad" is just as harmful as racist humor.


He's a typical braying jackass of a preacher.