I hope I'm never held accountable for my pastor's political remarks

[CreekDog]

My pastor is a good man but when he talks politics, I always disagree.

He has lots of ideas that I think are way out there, but because his job, pastoring is one that he does well, I haven't made an issue of it.

I also hope I'm not held accountable for statements he makes outside of church, say at conferences, when speaking to groups I've never heard of.

But if I were running for president, it appears that I would be guilty by association. I guess I'm disqualified already.

How do you feel about this standard? Are all your associations vetted this thoroughly so that you are not connected to people that say bad things?

[anonymous171]

1. That's why I think this smear won't work.

People who attend churches know that sometimes your pastor will say some pretty weird stuff.

[Drachasor]

17. I think the smear won't work well among people with regular church attendence

It might work somewhat among Americans that rarely or never go to church.

[Abacus]

20. Yep,

I think this is a lame attack. Firstly, it's irrelevant. Secondly, it's universal; that is I don't know of many who could make the accusation without having to defend themselves from similar accusations. Thirdly, it helps to dispel the myth that Obama is Muslim.

[rodeodance]

2. like Hillary was held accountable for Fererro's remarks?

[anonymous171]

8. Ferraro was doing rounds on Radio shows and television for Hillary.

[rodeodance]

13. The Obama campaign couldn't immediately say whether he'd remain on the committee.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wrights_committee.html


March 13, 2008

Wright's committee

Jeremiah Wright, in the news today because video of a sermon (parts of which had been reported, and disavowed, before) adds some heat to the discussion of his relationship with Obama, has generally been described as connected to Obama only informally — a religious figure with whom Obama has said he disagrees at times, a kind of cranky uncle.

But he also has a formal role on the campaign.

Wright is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee — the sort of largely honorary, advisory body that in recent days has recently been used mostly to throw people off who say controversial things.

The Obama campaign couldn't immediately say whether he'd remain on the committee.
……..

[Lucinda]

23. Ferraros initial comments were taken from a non-campaign paid speech.

She went MSM to MSM after the fact to try to explain them.

[rodeodance]

24. i knew it was speech from a while back. yes. it not for the campaign! yet--look what happened

[Lucinda]

31. I've been wondering if they knew the Wright video was coming out...

Seems odd to sudenly pop up with criticism of a non-campaign related speech right now.

[Metric System]

3. He talks politics in church?

[CreekDog]

5. sometimes he does

he also talks about coffee, talks about sports, talks about what he considers a good wine...

[stillcool]

43. My Priest talked about..

killing, lying, and stealing, and extra-marital sex. He didn't talk about politics. He only said I couldn't do these things. He didn't tell me the government could.

[rodeodance]

4. Wright is part of BO's campaign --not just his paster--got that?

[CreekDog]

7. explain how he is part of the campaign right now. n/t

[rodeodance]

11. Wright is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee —

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Wrights_committee.html


March 13, 2008

Wright's committee

Jeremiah Wright, in the news today because video of a sermon (parts of which had been reported, and disavowed, before) adds some heat to the discussion of his relationship with Obama, has generally been described as connected to Obama only informally — a religious figure with whom Obama has said he disagrees at times, a kind of cranky uncle.

But he also has a formal role on the campaign.

Wright is a member of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee — the sort of largely honorary, advisory body that in recent days has recently been used mostly to throw people off who say controversial things.

The Obama campaign couldn't immediately say whether he'd remain on the committee.
……..

[CreekDog]

12. then he should not be any longer.

IMHO.

[rodeodance]

15. best tell your leader that.

[sudopod]

16. When the rt. Reverend goes on Faux News to trash Senator Clinton

then you may have something. :p

[CreekDog]

18. really?

i mean i'm sure he would if given the chance.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DefenseLawyer]

9. Hell I am worse off than you.

I don't even have a pastor, much less a church. I guess I will be lamenting my failed political career while burning in hell for eternity. What a bummer.

[knixphan]

10. I'll take it a step higher...

How many people have parents or aunts/uncles who would be classified as racists or bigots if we heard them speaking candidly?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

14. Why should you be? Makes no sense.

[sfam]

19. Nope, I think its a pretty clear bet that you believe everything he said...

The newsies said so - that everyone who disagrees with their pastor immediately leaves, so it must be true, right?

[book_worm]

21. This is going to be a nothing issue. Obama will handle it well.

[rodeodance]

25. he better hurry up and handle it

[2rth2pwr]

22. Is he your mentor, your spititual advisor, is he your sounding board

for things political? Have you titled a book about yourself with your pastor's words?

Did your pastor marry you and your wife? Did he baptize your 2 children?



Does he have an official function in your campaign?




If not you have nothing to worry about.

[golddigger]

26. Oh snap, but it's falling on Obama supporters deaf ears. When a pastor

is humping the podium and saying Hillary is fucking america like Bill fucked Monica with children in the audience, there is definitely something wrong and sick about this guy.

:puke:

[CreekDog]

30. wow, how could anyone vote for that guy???

oh yeah, he's not running. :eyes:

[roguevalley]

51. all of that fits my brother. is he going to hell too.

[scheming daemons]

27. The pastor of my Catholic church was charged with pedophilia.... I guess that makes ME a pervert...

After all... he presided over my wedding and baptized my daughters.



See how silly this is?

[LisaM]

39. But if you'd KNOWN that about him....

would you still have had him officiate your wedding and baptize your children?

[scheming daemons]

50. Exactly... all of the sermons we saw from Wright are POST 2001.... AFTER Obama joined the church....

You're asking that Obama... in 1988.... had to somehow know what crap Wright would be spouting 15 to 20 years later.

[Neshanic]

28. Apparently many people here attend a church presided over by insane pastors and ministers.

How did this trend go unnoticed?

The pews have glue also, or some sticky material,(velcro?) that cements their asses in place.

[CreekDog]

33. because we go to church for God

not for a pastor. :banghead:

[Neshanic]

37. Wow, That disconnect is stunning.

[JVS]

42. What's so stunning? We'd no sooner worship the pastor during worship than we'd eat him for communion

[Neshanic]

38. Mommy, who is that man talking up there? Oh honey. just sit and listen to God.

The disconnect is stunning.

[CreekDog]

40. thanks for misrepresenting me

:eyes:

[JVS]

41. Don't be bothered Creekdog.

1. Any pastor who never says things that we dislike isn't doing his job. It is a bad pastor who never elicits a feeling of guilt from the congregant.

2. There are 2 times in the liturgy where the pastor speaks directly for God, absolution and consecration. The sermon is not such a time, although a good exposition of the readings is desirable, and usually is provided in my opinion.

3. God's words and sacraments never depend on the character of the person administering them.

[amandabeech]

47. In my United Methodist Church, the sermon was 1/2 hour.

Then there were at least 6 hymns (all verses), the offering, prayers prepared by the pastor, and some readings of the gospel. Communion was only every three months at a service with much, much less preaching and lots more liturgy.

The pastors in my old church really interpreted scripture or uses scripture as the departure point for the sermon. I went through three pastors, and believe me, the experience was different with each of them. As a teenager, I passively rejected one of them, and would have left if I could have and survived at home.

A few years ago, that church had another nut job pastor, and at least half the congregation departed for another United Methodist church in the vicinity. After numerous complaints from the former congregants, the bishop intervened, sent a new pastor and now most folks are back in my old church.

I've been to Catholic masses, and it is a very different experience. So much more of the service is taken up with liturgy and communion. Still, I'm not sure how long I could tolerate the official Catholic position on the role of women in the church and "family life."

[CreekDog]

48. your statements reflect why i can go to a church whose pastor's politics I disagree with

further, it follows that i can confide in a friend with whom i strenuously disagree on many matters, because friendship also does not depend on universal agreement.

this standard of guilt by association is really bugging me.

i like having friends that have different opinions. i like that a former pastor of mine in Indiana who is very conservative respects my opinions and that i respect his.

yeah, Wright said things that went too far and that needs to be corrected, but i'm not sure that means that you can't associate with him. he's not Hitler, he just holds some whacked-out opinions --he wouldn't be the first.

:hi:

[stillcool]

45. Apparently many people here...

judge a man's life by one sermon he made. Apparently many people here look with disdain on houses of worship other than their own. Apparently many people here are outraged by a preacher who speaks the truth to his Congregation. Apparently many people here are uncomfortable with their own prejudices.

[LTR]

29. Damn, you just nailed it

Does Obama, or anyone for that matter, really have to answer for everyone who supports him?

[usrbs]

32. I genuinely want to understand - then why stay in that church?

This has nothing to do with Obama or Clinton, but why would you stay for years at a church listening to sermons and philosophies that are repugnant? I'm guessing here, but the GOP has been so toxic for years that repugnant probably fits.

I'm a humanist, so maybe I can't understand, but it seems to me that you do have the choice to look for a better place.

[CreekDog]

34. i said the reason i stay at that church, because the reason i go there he does extremely well

i don't go to church for politics but i don't leave because of politics either. it's not a big part of what he says.

[intheflow]

44. Maybe it's the only church of his denomination in town.

Maybe he goes because he likes the congregants, his neighbors, maybe people he grew up with, maybe other family members. Maybe they have a kick-ass religious ed program for his kids, maybe it's in walking distance from his house so he can live his liberal ideals and not contribute car emissions for one day a week. Maybe the rest of his life is messed up so he attends the church he grew up in to give him a level of comfort and stability. People go to specific churches for a lot of reasons. Very few people attend a church for just one reason, even fewer solely because they like the pastor, and no one I know in any liberal church goes because they love everything the minister says 100% of the time. I'm speaking from experience as a former minister.

As a Humanist, you might want to read this from the Humanist Society. The most relevant part of this web page to our discussion is this paragraph:

"Millions of Americans consider themselves nonreligious, and a majority of them live by ethical standards consistent with Humanism. Many of these individuals are frustrated by the fact that churches often provide the only place available to fulfill people's need for community involvement. This lack of community hinders mobilization and blunts our ability to effect change. Local Humanist groups already exist with various program focuses, but the future of the Humanist movement rests on the potential of communities."

In other words, people attend humanist communities not only to discuss humanism, but to enjoy community, work for effective social change, and perpetuate/spread the ideals of Humanism. Same goes for church communities, both liberal and conservative.

[stillcool]

What is repugnant?

the way blacks have been treated in this country?

[Catherine Vincent]

35. Don't run for President. And if you do, advise him or her to keep your name out of his piehole. nt

[knixphan]

46. or run for Pres, and let the chips fall where they may.

[JPZenger]

36. Are Catholics responsible for their Priest's anti-abortion views?

If a person is a liberal Catholic are they supposed to be responsible if their Priest gives a sermon seeking the outlawing of abortion and prohibition on birth control?

[Hepburn]

49. Some times....it pays to be an atheist! n/t