Hillary and the Media, with their condemnation of his more innocuous statements, are proving Wright.

[Leopolds Ghost]

I see nothing wrong with the particular speech they keep airing about
Hillary vs. Obama and Wright's claims that this is a nation run by and
large by rich, old white men -- and yet Clinton and by extension, the
media, keep denouncing it and asking everyone to do the same -- putting
it in the same category as anarchism and animal rights as an absolute
political no-go zone for right-thinking Americans. Wright's speech has
become the new litmus test for justifying the meme that racism no longer
exists in this society and Americans have "every right" to be angry at
Obama for displaying even a hint of ethnicity.

One drop of black blood is all it takes for even the most well-meaning
moderate liberal Clinton supporter to racialize the election, even
against a candidate criticized by black and white people as not being
"really" black a year ago, a Tiger Woods. Even and especially if a
"black" man is standing in the way of a moderate white feminist AND
WORSE, attracting the support of "scary, enthusastic crowds of black
people." Ethnic solidarity scares people in this country only when it
is displayed by black people, or Jewish people. I'm not sure who else.

And the only reason Barack even EARNED that ethnic solidarity is they
saw people jumping on Obama racially and ethnically no matter how far
he ran from his heritage. Proof of some of Wright's less controversial
claims.

Some of Wright's other quotes disturb me, the "goddamn America" crap has
no place in the most left-wing Church in my book, and I'm a radical
activist. But I'm also religious and I believe in pride in one's heritage!
I DON'T believe in collective responsibility, and neither does Obama.
The blaming Americans for 9-11 bullshit is similarly tautological -- the
people who committed 9-11 are responsible, period. There is an infinite
line of injustices going back and forth, as any real pastor who is a
true Christian would know. But to tie these extreme statements to
Wright's speech on the racial dynamic, which is no more extreme than
a reflection and rebuttal of what Geraldine Ferraro already said,
as if everything Wright says is wrong and any mention of racism
in this country by a black man -- indeed, any refutation of Ferraro's
or anyone else's racism by an indignant black man is not dismissed
as Ferrarro was as over-zealous statements by a distressed member of the
community, but tarred as "militant black nationalism" equivalent to
Farrakhan or Hagee or Pat Robertson or the late Falwell, racist and
anti-semitic figures who are STILL tied to Bush and McCain. NO ONE
is afraid of WHITE solidarity which is the only reason black solidarity
exists -- because white solidarity, male or female, is still acceptable
and on display in all aspects of society. That is FOUL!

Why can't Black people enjoy their culture and embrace a role model
without being attacked, like JFK was for associating too closely w.
Catholics and being asked to denounce the Pope?

Can Obama turn this to his advantage?

Can Obama pull a JFK and say:

"I don't agree with everything my Pastor says, but I'm a Born Again
Christian and as a Christian, you can't pick your church, and you
don't leave the church just because you disagree with something
your pastor says!"

When will the Youtube Vids of HAGEE come out??

Will CLINTON supporters broadcast them??

[Leopolds Ghost]

1. No comments?

[Beregond2]

2. Wright, etc.

"Born Again Christian" isn't a term likely to be used by any member of a liberal church. It is associated with fundamentalist right-wingers.

I agree 100% with your other statements. What all this controversy is really about is trying to whip-up some old-fashioned bigotry by finding the "scariest" black man they can, and associating him with Obama in the public mind. Unfortunately, the parsing you have done of Wright's words won't matter. The images and the tone are what will register with those most likely to be affected by this kind of thing.

All this was to be expected from Republicans, but that the members of our own party would stoop to these tactics is inexcusable.

[Leopolds Ghost]

5. No, Obama is a Born Again liberal Christian, said so in his book.

"I didn't fall out (in the aisle) like some of the others
(who took the pledge alongside me), god bless them.
It was more gradual for me" he said.

Lots of black evangelicals in this country. And they have
every reason to agree with Wright -- hell, lots of RIGHT WING
evangelicals believe America is damned for her support for
(fill in the blank). As a left libertarian I don't believe
in collective punishment, I believe in universal access to
salvation in fact. So I don't agree with them.

[DURHAM D]

9. That is probably a statement about "joining the church" -

very different than being born again.

[theboss]

11. "Born again" is a rebirth in Christ through baptistm

A "born again" Christian is essentially any Christian who does not believe in infant baptism.

John 3:1-8

1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."
3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

4"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

5Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

[sorrybushisfromtexas]

3. still hasn't made drudge, the right wing's bible

I think it is a yawn, will go a new's cycle or two and then go away.

We should support our candidate of choice with our money, our vote, our work for his or her campaign.

Clinton supporters, it is simply math, 1 & 1=2 Your math does not work out. Support the next president when the nominee is Barak Obama. All this I am not voting for him or I will not vote for her, will hurt our choices for GE.

[Leopolds Ghost]

6. Hillary's campaign at this point is run by Reagan "Dems" in a Nader-like fashion

Like the right-wingers who coalesced around Nader's 2004 third party run
and turned it into a spoiler campaign to serve their own interests (and
who also infiltrated and destroyed the Green and Reform Party from within)

It is all about undermining the left in general, not providing a real
alternative because the people around her speak for themselves in their
actions and beliefs.

[ellacott]

4. The irony is this may neutralize the muslim accusations

I think he may be helped by Parsley and Hagee.

Obama does have to be clear that he doesn't agree with everything her says and that his actions are proof of that.

[BlackVelvet04]

7. but I'm a Born Again Christian and as a Christian, you can't pick your church

Well, that's just ridiculous. Of course you can pick your church. And of course you leave if the church is preaching something you disagree with. I did. I left a church that preached hatred toward homosexuals. I walked out of a church when a racist remark was made. Where is Obama's courage of his convictions? Is he just too weak to stand up for what is right or does he on some level agree with Wright?

[Leopolds Ghost]

8. "I am not a Cafeteria Christian." That is all Obama needs to say.

I disagree mightily with some of the things my church elders decide to do,
but if I have invested family in that church you don't just up and leave.
The abuse has to be systematic and run against the tenets of your own
religious philosophy -- not the pastor's political beliefs.

Else you are demanding that conservatives leave mainstream churches,
as they have been doing in droves, simply because the pastors (like
most seminary educated pastors are) tend to be liberal or left of
liberal!

Which is abhorrent cafeteria christianity at its worst --
the right wing version of European state religion with
its disaffected, disinterested, participants who only
wish to be comforted in their personal prejudices.

No. You stay and fight.

The only reason I would leave my church is because I'm denominationally
Lutheran (by birth) but doctrinally Anabaptist. Even then I would stay
and fight because my church is one of the few liberal Lutheran churches
in the area.

You seem to be advocating that all left-wing pastors lose their congregations.

[BlackVelvet04]

10. I'm suggesting you don't support...

including financially, that which you don't agree with. Stay and fight whom? The pastor? I have no respect for anyone who would sit and listen to something they disagreed with for 20 years and also made the person they disagreed with their personal spiritual mentor.

find a church you agree with, don't tear it apart from infighting.

Your last sentence is so incredibly disingenuous. Not all left-wing pastors talk like Wright.