My spiritual mentors turned out to be a possible pediphile and and extortionist who was kicked out

[4_Legs_Good]

Seriously, the two most influential people in my spiritual life ended up being:

1. A Catholic priest who committed suicide after being accused of molesting a teenager 20 years prior to his suicide

and

2. A Catholic Bishop who ended up being run out of his diocese after having a homosexual relationship with another priest (who claimed it wasn't really consentual) and extorting money, or at the very least wasting most of the money available to the entire archdiocese.

Both of these men I held in VERY high esteem and still believe that the spiritual lessons I learned from them are the most important I've learned in my life. Good lessons about caring for others, positive progressive work for those less fortunate, and remembering that God is pro-choice (in more than one sense of the word), along with teaching me about mystical traditions and all kinds of other stuff.

I dont' want to imagine my life without the influence of these two men.

And yet one turned out to likely been a child molester and the other was a criminal.

I'm just saying...

David

[jackson_dem]

1. Ended up being. Would you have endorsed them for two decades if you knew thos things?

I bet you, like most folks, would have severed ties after learning of that.

[scheming daemons]

10. Did Wright say any of these things prior to Obama joining the church?

All of the tapes we've seen are from the past 5 years.


Is it possible, in your myopic view, that the Rev Wright from 2001 to now is NOT the same person that he was when Obama found Christianity in 1988?

[dcindian]

15. And yet people are still in the Catholic church after all the pediphilia and cover up.

By your analogy all Catholics would need to disavow the church and give up Catholicism totally.

[JuniperLea]

2. Then it's unlikely you will hold them up and praise them...

For being such a huge influence in your life or your political career. That is the issue...

[Mags]

3. did he preach those things to you every week?

would you stay and pay big bucks if he had?

[CreekDog]

6. did Wright really preach (from the pulpit) "these things" *every* week?

i mean come on now. stick with facts, don't just extrapolate and make up new ones.

[Mags]

8. I don't know, but you know what your priest said.

[CreekDog]

11. what on earth does that mean?

:shrug:

[Drachasor]

13. Generally the media and detractors pick the craziest comments to complain about

There's far from any reason to think Wright made speeches like the ones being complained about that often. Indeed, it was probably an extremely rare event (otherwise we'd have dozens of examples by now).

[CreekDog]

14. and the one sermon was January 13th

Obama might have been in South Carolina by then. Was he even at his home church?

[hedgehog]

4. There is a Catholic teaching somewhere that states the grace from

a sacrament comes from God independent of the sanctity of the minister. In other words, the priest can be the worst kind of sinner but a Baptism or Mass performed by him is still valid. I think it's one of the teachings that Martin Luther disagreed with.

[CreekDog]

9. Martin Luther says sacraments are not dependent upon the faith of those administering!

So Luther actually agrees rather than disagrees.

[hedgehog]

17. Thank you for the correction. My recollection is hazy and goes back to

school days when all Protestants were lumped together!

BTW - Martin Luther is another example of a great preacher who said a lot of good things but wrote the occasional sermon that makes modern readers wince!

[CreekDog]

18. yeah. imagine if i had to account for the things Luther said about Jewish people?

:yoiks:

[hedgehog]

20. It might be worth making that post to educate some people!

The more I learn about Luther, the more I admire him but he did have some blind spots (as do we all!)

[Oleladylib]

12. absolutely correct

[4_Legs_Good]

16. I actually remember one of the two mentioning this doctrine!

But the positive relationship I had with both of these people was less about sacraments and more about philosophy and spirituality, I guess. It's hard to explain, but I would definitely put them down as two of the most positively influential people in my life.

Which seems really odd, but true.

David

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Lessons can be learned from anyone

If the lessons learned from these men still hold true for you, don't worry about their failings. The lessons for you were right. If the lessons are now in question, look within yourself for answers.

[politicaholic]

7. Obviously that means you're a horrible person...

I think your only option is to drop out of the race. What race? Well...go find one and then drop out of it.

I expect to drop out of the St. Patrick's Day Dash this Sunday right about the point where the race passes Kelly's Irish Pub.

[BlackVelvet04]

19. you're a really poor judge of character, aren't you? n/t

[4_Legs_Good]

22. I suppose so!

Because I still highly regard these people. I'm ashamed of the acts I've mentioned, but I still think they had a lot to offer.

And I guess that *does* (seriously) make me a bad judge of character.

David

[canuk1]

21. its your fault

YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT THESE PEOPLE WERE LIKE AND STOPPED THEM. FROM NOW ON YOU MUST INVESTIGATE ALL PEOPLE YOU KNOW TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE PERFECT. OTHERWISE ITS YOUR FAULT WHEN THEY MAKE A MISTAKE. JUST LIKE ITS OBAMA'S FAULT BECAUSE HIS PASTOR SAID SOMETHING. OBAMA SHOULD HAVE READ HIS MIND AND STOPPED HIM BEFORE TALKING. I DON'T KNOW WHAT CHURCH YOU GO TO, BUT AT MY CHURCH THE PASTOR CALLS UP EVERYONE AND OKAYS THE SERMON BEFORE HAND IN CASE ANYONE WANTS TO RUN FOR OFFICE.

[Hannah Bell]

23. One thing I've learned in life....

If you really want to take someone down...

There's always a way. If you have enough money, if you have a big enough megaphone.

So "justice" comes down to that, in the end.

one of the reasons penny-ante crack smokers go to prison while transnational dealers hobnob with the rich & connected.