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Notes from a former conservative turned Democrat - don't lose sight of the big picture, ok?

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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:16 PM
Original message
Notes from a former conservative turned Democrat - don't lose sight of the big picture, ok?
First off, I am a former grunt with a potty mouth, so if you don't like profanity, better head elsewhere because I am really mad and need to vent. You were warned.

A friend of mine with whom I often discuss politics told me the other day that if his candidate didn't win the Democratic nomination, he would vote for John McCain. My response was something along the lines of

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED?!?!?!?

I proceeded to tear him a new one (verbally, anyway). Despite all of the conflicts going on between the Senator Clinton camp and the Senator Obama camp, there is no fucking way in hell I am going to stand for some bullshit like that. I thought the era of Democratic "Barnburners" was over with the end of slavery. Anyone who votes for Senator McCain out of spite because their candidate doesn't get the nomination has completely lost all perspective. Senator McCain has already made it pretty clear what he is going to do if elected: essentially, continue all of the utterly fucked-up policies of George Bush. Stay in Iraq for another 100 years? Sure! Put more asshole conservatives on the Supreme Court? Absolutely! Reverse Roe vs. Wade? Damn skippy! And we'll make a fortune by buying up stock in the coat-hanger companies beforehand to boot! Yay! And we'll sure as hell make sure that any insider trading never ever gets investigated! Woo-hoo! "Return" to a mythical time when for straight white males it was an idyllic Leave it to Beaver happy universe but everyone else is pretty much fucked? Oh hell yes! Maybe even make people like Joe "We Can't Bomb Iran Fast Enough for Me" Lieberman Secretary of State, or maybe Secretary of Defense? Awesomeness!

COME ON YOU FUCKING BLINDER-WEARING JERKOFFs!!!!! How can you really say THAT is an acceptable alternative to your candidate losing the nomination?!? I know it's almost become a cliche, but seriously, a McCain presidency will essentially be Bush's third term. On many of the major issues, I don't see any real difference between McCain and Bush, especially since on the few issues where there was a difference McCain appears to have changed his stance to match Bush's in order to appeal more to the base of the Republican party, i.e. the moronic, mouth-breathing, homophobic, xenophobic, "Adam and Eve rode a dinosaur to church" types. Christ, are we really that fucking stupid? Would we really rather see McCain win? Are we that goddamn short-sighted? Is the country going to be better off that way, because we took our fucking toys and went home, so to speak? Waah waah waah, if I can't have it my way I am going to just fuck it up for everyone? Jumpin' Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick.

Everyone take a deep breath and say it with me: "Democratic candidate (whomever I like) is not a Savior, and Democratic candidate (whomever I hate) is not the Antichrist. There is no reason - NO FUCKING REASON - that we can't pull our shit together, win this goddamn election, and turn this country around regardless of which Democrat gets the nomination."

I am going to vote Democrat in this election regardless of who gets the nomination, OK? Yeah, I have my preferences, and right now I prefer Senator Obama - so the fuck what? I'll still vote for Senator Clinton if she wins the nomination. At least in this Presidential election, I can't imagine the circumstances that would force me to NOT vote for any Democratic candidate. That is not because I am a "yellow dog" Democrat, it is merely because the Democratic party's stances on the issues follow my own a hell of a lot more closely than the Republican party's stances on the issues, and either candidate is bound to be a better fucking President than Senator McCain, not to mention the White House's current occupant. And despite all the Democratic candidates and the Democratic party's flaws (and there are definitely quite a few) I would rather see the Democrats come out on top than vote for a third-party candidate just to make a point, because I think that it is still more likely to succeed by pushing for change within the Democratic ranks (at least in the short term). As the country collectively gets in worse and worse situations on all fronts, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't see that. Yeah, there are differences between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama. And there were things that President Clinton did that I did not agree with. Still, I would rather have President Hillary Clinton than President John Fucking McCain. And yeah, I don't think that we should sacrifice our idealism, but I think we have to realize that some things just aren't going to fucking happen anytime soon without ensuring that we have the opportunity and the time to accomplish them. Yeah, I would like to see our political system get cleaned up and adapted to accept more political parties, but in order to do that, we have to ensure that WE STILL HAVE A WORKING FUCKING POLITICAL SYSTEM. And whatever allows the Republicans to keep taking us down the path that we've been on for the last seven nightmarish years is a fucking bad thing. They DON'T CARE about the system, they are going to milk it for all its worth to empower and enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else. THEY are the ones that think the ends justifies whatever means - a unitary executive, torture, gentrification, pollution, exploitation, you name it. I am most definitely not for the ends justifies the means, and I would love to see a viable third party that is more progressive, but for fuck's sake, can you not see that that particular means (throwing away your vote on a third party candidate, or worse, voting for the other side out of spite) helps put a goddamn Bush clone in the White House for four more fucking years!?!?! How much is that going to help? How is that going to stop the corporations from virtually sodomizing the public for money? How is that going to help worker's rights, or gay rights, or fix the broken goddamn health care system? It's like standing on the deck of a sinking ship and saying "goddammit, if only we had paid more attention to the charts, and if only we hadn't turned off the radar, and if only we had taken a different ship, and yadda yadda yadda we wouldn't be in this mess - so let's sit and argue about it some more because YOU KNOW I'M RIGHT!" Yes, you are indeed right, but that doesn't change the fact that in the meantime while we are arguing WE ARE GOING TO FUCKING DROWN. How about we get in a goddamn lifeboat and we can argue about it once we are out of danger? Would that be OK with you?" It's insane. Period. It's like that scene in this movie (Strange Brew - love that film) where the guy realizes that his brakes are gone, so he just shrugs and says "well, no point in steering now" while his brother freaks out and grabs the wheel. Seriously, it is about that dumb.

Christ I am so pissed off right now. I literally turned red. Sorry if this contains a lot of profanity, but obviously this is something I feel quite passionately about.

Perspective, people. Get some.
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you.
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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. You're welcome.
And thank YOU.
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angie_love Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Welcome to DU! and well spoken.
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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Thanks
I've actually been around a while, I just don't post stuff that often. I usually prefer to read what other people are writing.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. What did George W Bush ever do to you??
:-)
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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Lots, actually
It's a long list - how much time do you have?

I could start where I got to watch a Bradley burn up on TV four years ago, not realizing that a guy I knew was in it until later.

Or maybe I could talk about the guy I know who has to learn how to write left-handed because most of his right hand was blown off.

Or maybe I could talk about how I had to listen to my little brother on the phone as he told me to not tell mom that the base he was on was attacked with mortars and rockets at least twice a day, and that every time he left the base the convoy he was in got attacked.

Or perhaps it would be the analysis project that I slaved over for 60 hours a week for a couple of months, only to have all of my conclusions ignored because it wasn't what some political appointee wanted to hear?

Anyway, I know (well, I am pretty sure anyway) your comment was tongue in cheek, but in all seriousness, I am not happy with the man, to put it mildly. And I wasn't crazy about his dad either.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nice rant!
:applause:

I especially liked the part about arguing about shit on the lifeboat. :rofl:

:thumbsup:
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Growler Donating Member (896 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kick
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. Welcome to DU - and your very welcome logical rant
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LiveLiberally Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R -- and to the greatest page you go....
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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Greatest page?
Wow - should I be flattered? I think so. Thanks!
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Heavens to Betsy*!! Such foul words! Golly! Jeepers!
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 05:27 PM by ronnykmarshall
You're alright in my book mother fucker!!

:thumbsup:

*And who the fuck is Betsy anyway?
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. Damn skippy, fer sure...
The K and the R...
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
12. Emotions are running high right now, people will get back to their senses
once the primaries are over. we will see many apologies right here on DU.
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HopeforChange Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. So you say vote for the party and not for the person
I don't know if I can vote for a person I do not believe in just for the sake of a party. A party that has this screwed up Super delegate situation. what a mess. If the democrats loose this one it will be because of the Super delegate situation.

I just stood with 500 people in a cold dark parking lot for 3 1/2 hours waiting to caucus in a State where the delegates can change their minds when they get to the Senate convention. At this convention I was bullied and nearly attacked by out of control angry and tired voters. At the State and national level this party has a few that can trump the vote of the thousands if not millions. Where in the democratic process in all of this. People are learning by the thousands about how undemocratic this really is.

Right now I will reserve judgment as I really haven't studied John McCain vs. Hillary Clinton.

My perspective at this time is Obama vs. Clinton and while their platforms may be similar their character is diametrically opposed. It takes character and judgment to run our country so right now I cannot even imagine voting for someone whose character and values I don't condone.

In the end I think we will compare the two nominees and decide who has the best character, judgment and core values.

I think the democratic Party needs to do something to build a base that is loyal to the party not just the candidate of the people's choice. They can do this by being fair and also announcing that they will fix this super delegate situation in any future elections.
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9thkvius Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Party over person? Not exactly what I meant
and if I came across that way, it's my fault. So I will try to be a bit more clear.

What I am really trying to say is, the principles that I believe in are most closely matched by the Democratic party's principles (they are NOT an exact match), and I believe either of the two leading party candidates will stand up for those principles more than John McCain will ever, ever do.

And you're right - until someone can convince me otherwise (good luck) I think the superdelegate issue reeks of elitism. If the leadership of the party has the ability overturn the will of a majority of its members, then something is seriously wrong.
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Guava Jelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Will you be my friend?
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 05:38 PM by GoPsUx
I have tried for weeks to say what you have just said, but I could never find the proper way to say it.
You hit it out of the F'en park on this one!! :applause: A trillion thank yous!
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damonm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
15. HUGE K & R
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InsultComicDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. amen nt
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. People have lost perspective, you are right.
It's tiresome to say the least. And often frightening in terms of what the final outcome will be. It is hard to find anyone around here anymore that is willing to support both candidates.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. "Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc."
this link to an active GD thread is all about the political machine within the Democratic Party that was founded and funded by and with RW/neoconservative people and organizations that began during the Reagan era.

Before I link to that must read thread you might want to review the profile of this Democratic Party machine's co-founder, and President of its main think tank-Will Marshall

Will Marshall Right Web profile
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295.html

Here is the link to the must read active GD thread, and welcome to DU, btw I voted for Dennis Kucinich after this machine had neutralized him as well as my second choice, John Edwards before the Wisconsin primary

"Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc." (I started this thread 3-7-2008)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191
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bluhoodie Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R - and I loved the potty-mouth passion of your argument
:applause: Well said, in my estimation.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 04:56 AM
Response to Original message
23. well said
Thank you for your prospective on this: We have to keep our eye on the GE, regardless of who is nominated
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BlueCollar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-15-08 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
24. AMEN!!!...............n/t
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