Well, at least the race was exciting for a while. See ya, Barack.

[hiaasenrocks]

He's been sitting in that church listening to racist and anti-American rhetoric for twenty years. Obama will have to explain, somehow, that he just wasn't aware of Wright's hate-mongering sermons. If he can't do that, then he'll have to explain why he continued to bring his children into that shameful environment.

Obama CHOSE Wright's church. And he CHOSE to continue going. (EDIT: So did Michelle Obama.)

After several months of the media giving him a free pass, all it took was just a little digging into his past and his associations. (That's all we could look at because he really has no record, just motivational speeches.)

He's toast. When his supporters wake up from their fainting spells, they're going to be surprised.

I'll have to DVR tonight's appearances, as I'm heading out to the movies now. Can't wait to see what he comes up with for the interviews. It's just sad that these two clowns are the only ones left in the race.

Have a good evening, everybody!

:hi:

[high density]

1. Hmm, is this Wright thing worth negative delegates or something?

Toast?? You wish.

[jackson_dem]

5. No, but it will sink him as a credible general election candidate

[Barack_America]

12. Like Hillary's McCain comments? Like Bill's alienation of African Americans?

If so, who are we left with?

[jackson_dem]

51. No

1) No one cares about Hillary stating the obvious, that McCain has more experience than Obama except Obama supporters. 2) There isn't any evidence that blacks will vote against Clinton in the general. The existing evidence shows Obama is the one who hemorrhages Democratic support. 25% of Clinton supporters will switch to McCain while only 10% of Obama supporters would do the same if Clinton is the nominee.

Still one has to be blind not to recognize the significant problems both candidates have. I am thinking if this goes onto the convention we must go with the man who unites all Democratic hearts: President Gore.

[skater314159]

70. So we should choose Hillary because 25% of her supporters are Republicans? nt

[jackson_dem]

82. You can't change the goal posts when it is convenient. 25% of DEMOCRATS will switch

Only 10% of Dems will if Obama is the nominee.

You can't trot out the unproven Obama theory about Democrats deserting Clinton and then change the goalpost when the evidence shows the exact opposite. This isn't surprising. Clinton has won something like a million more Democratic votes than Obama.

[skater314159]

83. Democrats don't vote for McCain. nt

[jackson_dem]

85. Crossover voting happens every year

10% of Obama supporters will crossover if Hillary is the nominee. 13% of rethugs voted for Clinton in 96', 8% for Gore, and 6% for Kerry. On the other side Bush won 11% of Democrats each time and Dole 10%. Then there are the famous "Reagan Democrats" who went for Reagan. What makes Obama unique is he cedes such an unusually high percentage of the base to the other side. To put it simply, it is a huge gamble to try win a contest with McCain by gambling on independents. It isn't a good strategy anyway to cede 25% of your base and pin your hopes on indies but it is near suicide against someone who does so well with indies like McCain. To beat him you need your base .

[aquarius dawning]

131. Moderate and conservative ones will.

[Barack_America]

84. Where's that 25% from?

If you're citing the MS exit polls, 25% of her votes came from Republicans...explaining their fondness of McCain.

[jackson_dem]

87. A national poll

And almost all of it comes from whites. 20% of white Dems won't vote for him in one poll. The other poll was a general one. Most of it is likely from whites but some of it also is probably from Latinos, a group with which McCain is respected and popular. It looks like playing the race card against the Clintons will hurt him in the general if he is the nominee. The common excuse from Obamites is the extra 10-15% are racist. That is a cop out. In order to believe that you have to believe independents are less racist than Democrats.

Edit: I did a search. The 20% of white Dems figure is accurate. For all the talk of Clinton losing the black vote she would get 86%, only 7% less than Obama (7% of 10%=0.7 nationally). The 25% figure is not for Dems overall but for Clinton supporters. 25% of them would defect if Obama is nominated while 10% of Obama supporters would if Hillary is the nominee.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

130. I thought it was Obama that had 25% Republican supporters (looks like that's now gone).

I can't see too many Repubs or Indys voting for him after this Rev. Wright b.s. though.

[JackORoses]

46. that is the Hillarite Dream. Time to wake up.

[jackson_dem]

55. Nightmare. You didn't read what I said carefully

I don't think it will hurt him in the primaries because Clinton won't use it to swiftboat him on race and the msm won't make it as big a deal as they will when the rethugs swiftboat him. This probably won't significantly hurt him in the primaries, although we will have to wait and see for the evidence to roll in. It isn't about Clinton. It is about November. Losing is not a dream. It is a nightmare. President McCain? :scared:

[laugle]

80. Got to disagree with you there.

This would have derailed Clinton. There are still many "undecideds" out there, this will spook a lot of people, it plays to fears that Obama is a relatively unknown.

They like his message, but he is a ? for many people!

It also plays to the "electability" factor, can you imagine all those campaign ads with the Rev. doing his sermons.................

[Dinger]

138. It's Not My Dream

I wish we could just debate the issues, and not each other.

[JoFerret]

113. Without a doubt

And that's a bloody shame.

[ginchinchili]

121. My fear is that Democrats don't care, but the country as a whole will...

and we'll end up with another Republican president. We should have stuck with the most qualified candidate we had, Joe Biden. Then we'd understand that change doesn't matter unless it's synonymous with improvement.

[2rth2pwr]

6. Negative Superdelegates. nt

[hiaasenrocks]

101. It sure could be.

Super Delegates are not bound to stick with their pledges.

The more Obama's past is examined, the more they could see that he's unelectable.

[high density]

103. I think you guys have wishful thinking

If you feel the super delegates are that shallow and reactive.

[hiaasenrocks]

111. Yeah, Super Delegates are just dying to nominate a candidate

who will get trounced in the general election.

[DJ13]

2. zzzzzzzzz

:boring:

[azmouse]

...

:eyes:

[jackson_dem]

3. It isn't just in the church. Wright is his mentor and guiding light

To believe he didn't know Wright was a racist is like believing rethugs didn't know Lott was a racist. If you believe that I have a bridge...

[LakeSamish706]

4. Another Hillary dreamer at your service... haha... n/t

[Adelante]

11. They live on Hope

[janetblond]

14. Obama will be on Olbermann tonite ..

I must say, watching the video saddened me.
It will be a miracle if Mr. Obama survives this.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

16. As a Clinton supporter, I want nothing to do with this OP. It's hateful,

unsubstantiated and designed to demoralize.

edit, spelling

[hiaasenrocks]

30. You should edit for truth, too, and I'm not a Clinton supporter.

If you'd like to align yourself with Barack's racist church, go right ahead.

I'm off to the movies. The floor is all yours. Goodnight!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

Enjoy your movie!

c u l8r.

on edit, edited text. :-)

[hiaasenrocks]

20. Try again, fainter. Hillary will be a disaster in the general election.

[LakeSamish706]

29. Well try this, your OP is a pile of shit... n/t

[hiaasenrocks]

36. Brilliant rebuttal!

I guess I should expect no less from a member of the cult of motivation. Your clown is toast.

See ya.

[LSparkle]

7. Wright speaks "inconvenient truth"

We DID bomb Nagasaki and Hiroshima. FACE UP TO IT, AMERICA -- we have done these things!

We need to be ATONING for the blowback that's now coming back in our faces, not hiding our
heads in the sand and pretending that these atrocities NEVER HAPPENED.

[LakeSamish706]

22. Your post is dead on, these things were done by the US and Pastor Wright was correct. n/t

[Traction311]

53. I agree, but one thing bothers me...

Will "Joe Undecided White Guy" be less likely to vote for Obama in November? People like us will vote Dem in November, Freepers will vote McCain (or sit home/third party, since some hate him), but what scares me to death is that 15% who don't vote by party, but "for the best candidate" as they say it. Do you see them now voting for McLame?

[KAZ]

24. I'm sorry. According to DU's Dirty Dozen, that's hate speech.

[LSparkle]

39. Please educate me -- I don't want to break rules but

I don't understand how pointing out that our country has been aggressive
in the past (and should at least ackowledge this) is hate speech. I
don't want to be tombstoned or anything like that, but please enlighten
me!

[KAZ]

45. I think you misunderstand me. I was trying to snark.

Not very good at it.

[LSparkle]

59. Phew! This place has become so "Alice in Wonderland" that

I don't know HOW to react sometimes.

I really just wish this primary season would be over so that we can all
TRULY unite again. I don't like it when Mommy and Daddy fight!!!!

[KAZ]

66. Tell me about it. It's exhausting. And your "inconvenient truth" quote

was brilliant!

[Alexander]

71. More like the "delusional dozen" - it's the same group of Shillbot spammers.

[hiaasenrocks]

25. LMAO. Figures we'd have one person who is completely off the cliff.

Good grief. Pathetic.

[KittyWampus]

43. THANK YOU! it's like Hillary supporters have never heard the term "Blowback". WE created Al Qaida

why doesn't someone start a thread on that?

I can't start any til late tonight.

Dammit.

[skater314159]

73. You are right and so is LIBERATION THEOLOGY.

Too bad white America - so sorry you can't hide HISTORY any more!

It's time that we accept our past and learn from it so we can move into a new future... the only thing we will get from denial and hiding our past is further problems and more violence.

It's time to stop the hate, admit that some Americans' ancestors did horrible acts, atone for them and then make sure we don't repeat the offenses and unethical behaviours in the future.

[juajen]

142. Uh, it's a little late for us to do anything about this, ya know?

I'm not sure any of us could possibly atone for things done in the past that we are just not responsbile for. Going down that road leads to the indians, the mexicans, ohmygod the list is endless. I know we are horrible, and I do not condone this, but should we just turn the government over to the people we owe. We are actually broke, shall we give what's left and be refugees, or should we all just commit suicide?

I believe it would be more productive to attempt to rectify wrongs in the present and future, instead of going backwards. We have enough problems to solve from the past 7 years, without going back to our beginning.

Honestly, folks, this is a no-win situation.

[anamandujano]

145. We have addressed these situations. Everyone now knows it was

wrong. Guess what, we all even know that slavery was wrong.

To pretend that we need these sermons by Wright to put us on a better path is psychotic. Many in the black community speak out to keep us all honest but they use their smarts and politics to debate and help us see where to go from here.

There are some that are not on board but the rest of us cannot be held responsible for them.

We have been feeling tremendous guilt for things our ancestors did. We did not sign on to that stuff. We inherited it. Most are trying to get a grip and don't need people like Wright pouring salt on our wounds.

There are many great black leaders who teach us without treating us like criminals.

edit for spelling and typos

[backscatter712]

8. Keep wailing and flailing, Hill-shills!

She's still gonna lose.

Obama's actions today pretty much put this one to bed.

[rocktivity]

9. "After you, Senators Clinton and McCain."

:boring:
rocknation

[C_U_L8R]

10. Wishful thinking from the losing team?

Classy. And quite transparently desperate.
Y'know this is the last chance The Clintons have got, don't you?

[hiaasenrocks]

17. Where and when have I supported "The Clintons" campaign? In that post? Anywhere else?

Let's see it.

Thanks!

[C_U_L8R]

88. I didn't say you supported the Clintons but you're right, you don't.

And you've been quite consistent in your displeasure for Obama too.
Sorry for any confusion about that.

That said... the general atmosphere has become quite, shall we say, vibrant
as the Hillary campaign finds itself every day in a greater losing position.
I'd say from the look of things around here... not you personally... but the
general atmosphere is sheer Clintonian panic, hand wringing and hamfisting.
That's just how things are looking from here ...from Senator Clinton's
home (for now) state of New York. Things may appear different from
your perspective. Perhaps we can just agree on that.

[casus belli]

13. Sort of like the congregation..

that follows a preacher for 20 years, only to find out he's cheated on his wife, abused drugs and robbed the place blind to live a life of luxury. For you to suggest that people choose this in their religious leaders shows a real disconnect from reality for the sake of furthering a belief you have always had. It's not as if you supported Obama before this all came down...you've just finally found a reason you feel comfortable running with.

Until every person who has belonged to a congregation with a corrupt preacher is willing to admit that they were responsible, you've got no business pinning this on Barack. Or, maybe you think it's ok to judge someone based on the failing of an associate or family member? If that's the case, we're all screwed.

[LisaL]

19. Wright was giving public sermons.

They are on tape, for crying out loud.
It's not like finding out your pastor is cheating on his wife and be shocked. This all was done in public. How could Obama not know what views his pastor of 20 years has?
Jeez.

[CreekDog]

31. how many speeches? when? what was said?

did he hear them?

we need to know those things before we can judge Obama's actions.

[casus belli]

37. Right, they're on tape...

and it took a campaign hell-bent on destroying him months to find. Congratulations. I've yet to meet anyone who attended every service or sermon at their church in 20 years. In fact, most Catholics I know are hard to find at mass on a regular basis.

When I was a kid, I was really close to the priest of the Catholic church I attended. He was like a father to me in the absence of my own. Years later, I would find out that he was dismissed from the church because he apparently liked to hook up with men at truck stops. Does that mean that all of the the things he had taught me about faith and spirituality were null and void. Does that mean that every word ha had ever spoken was untrue? No. Therefore, your point that someone belonging to a church with an unethical preacher doesn't really sway my opinion of Obama much. Unlike you, I don't measure the man on the failings of people he has known. I measure him on his own merit, and there's nothing suggest he endorses these views. In fact, he has outright denied and rejected them.

[skater314159]

75. Wright was preaching Black Liberation Theology

for crying out loud.

How could you not know what that is? How could you not recongnize one of the common voices within African-American Christian Theology?

Jeeez.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

35. Did that preacher announce that he was cheating,

doing drugs, and robbing the place blind for 20 years, from the pulpit?

If not ... your point is bogus.

[casus belli]

38. Only if you lack common sense

Dig deeply...use the power of the gray matter that rests between your ears, you bag of stale wind.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

42. another classy 'O' supporter. n/t

[casus belli]

47. On second thought...

buh bye...

[SaveOurDemocracy]

62. Your analogy is flawed ... How can anyone be held

accountable for something another did, something that was hidden, kept secret??

Reverend Wright was making social, political, public statements from his pulpit ... not in some damn closet! If you refuse see why these things are different ... that speaks to your lack of critical thinking skills.

[casus belli]

69. Well, maybe I am stupid, I ignored the wrong person...

Geez. Anyway, I will respond to this one more time, because I think it is important. There is no doubt that this pastor's words smack of racism, anti-patriotism and many other undesirable features. The point is, to this congregation, those underlying aspects ARE hidden. These sermons were given in the context of black unity, of having pride in your ethnicity. If you listen to the sermons, he was trying to compel his parishioners to question their place, to rise above their "designated seat", to question the authority that they feel has held them back from opportunity. But underneath that, there were more sinister things...darker messages. I'm guessing if you had asked anyone at that sermon after it was over if they had just heard a hate speech, they would probably say no. It's hard to see that quality in someone you admire and look up to, which makes it all the more dangerous.

I'm making no apologies for this minister. None. But, it isn't fair to say that someone who may have drawn some very positive things from this man, who may have had their faith strengthened by his message should be familiar with all of his motives, all of his past messages and all of his underlying beliefs. As I stated in another post, I had a priest who I admired as a teen. He took me under his wing and encouraged me to ask questions of my faith, to learn more about other religions. I consider him the paradigm shift in my way of perceiving spirituality. Turns out the guy liked to go to truck stops and pick up men in restrooms and so was let go from the church. Does that invalidate what he brought to me. Should I ignore the very important lessons he brought to me in my formative years? I think to paint with such a wide brush and such a narrow perspective is a dangerous road for progressive politics. To view a complicated issue in such a linear way, without taking into account all of the variables is exactly the type of thinking that makes outlets like Fox News such an appealing alternative to real journalism. If these were Obama's words, my support would be immediately revoked. But they're not. And I see no evidence that any of this minister's misguided thoughts have been transferred to Obama in any way. If anything, it appears to have resolved him to seek unity and to bridge divisions, not encourage them. I'm not willing to convict a man for an associate's views, unless someone can demonstrate that it's a view they share. And unless you really hate the guy, I don't know how you could draw the assumption that he is anti-patritic, or divisive.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

86. Thank you for a thoughtful response ... and it may

surprise you to know that I agree with MANY, even most, of Reverend Wright's points. It may also surprise you to know that it's had absolutely NO effect on my, mostly positive, views about BO ... except to question his naiviety, or arrogance, in believing these tapes wouldn't emerge and damage his candidacy.


I understand righteous anger, passion, and the power of rhetoric. I'm discerning enough, and honest enough, to not try to make this something it isn't. But, I'm also discerning and honest enough to know that it's not 'nothing' in the eyes, and minds, of the less discerning who will be voting in November '08.

It's not the informed, involved, thinking people (like me and you :hi: ) who will be targeted, and swayed, by these words and images.

[casus belli]

129. Then we agree

I do understand how this can (and will) be used against him for those who are incapable of handling more than sound bites of this. For those who are looking to destroy Obama, it's just another of many tools to put in their arsenal. And they'll have no shortage of people willing to listen to it and help them spread their toxic cliff notes version of a very complicated subject matter.

I don't have any illusions that this won't hurt him. This will be brought against him time after time after time, and no amount of distance he creates between himself and the views of Reverend Wright will change that. That's why I think it all the more important that we, as progressives, don't succumb to the temptation to destroy someone because he (or she) is not "their" candidate. I think a vigorous debate of the issues should occur, and hard questions should be raised, but I'm seeing a lot of feigned outrage at a situation that most progressives SHOULD have a better grasp of. If we continue down this path, I'm not sure how we can run either candidate as a unified party without at least half of us looking like hypocrites.

I apologize if we got off on the wrong foot. :)

[SaveOurDemocracy]

64. LOLLLLL ... fine with me ... stay stoopid. n/t

[skater314159]

76. "...you bag of stale wind"

:rofl:

Thanks man! I needed that! That's the best phrase I've read on here in a while!

You made my night!

[Auntie Bush]

67. Trouble with that reasoning is

the preacher held his sins private and didn't shout them to the congregation. Obama knew...from Wright himself...what he believed and Obama MAY have believed them too...we'll never know...so maybe he should be given the benefit of the doubt...but it's difficult as his beliefs were made publicly. I just don't understand why he didn't denounce him before he even started running for president.

[casus belli]

72. Please take a moment to read post 69

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5082729&mesg_id=5083775

I address some of this there.

[roseBudd]

15. And they don't care about the sleazy pardon of Mark Rich, and brother Rodham's 200K take?

[still_one]

21. They want guilt by association, the Clinton's have plenty of guilt to go around /nt

[hiaasenrocks]

23. I do, and I'd never vote for her.

No comment on Barack's racist and anti-American church, I see.

Typical.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

41. Celebrating Obama's demise, and saying you would never vote for Hillary...

Interesting.

[theredpen]

61. I'm not surprised to heard that from someone parroting Rush Limbaugh

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5082729&mesg_id=5083066

[mod mom]

33. or worse: HARPERS: " Jesus Plus Nothing: Undercover among America's secret Theocrats"

New World Order? Now where did I hear that before?


Jesus plus nothing:
Undercover among America's secret theocrats
TYPE

Originally from Harpers Magazine, March 2003, by Jeffrey Sharlet, discusses 'the family' in Washington D.C.

-snip
By the end of the war, nearly a third of U.S. senators attended one of his weekly prayer meetings.

In 1944, Vereide had foreseen what he called “the new world order.” “Upon the termination of the war there will be many men available to carry on,” Vereide wrote in a letter to his wife. “Now the ground-work must be laid and our leadership brought to face God in humility, prayer and obedience.” He began organizing prayer meetings for delegates to the United Nations, at which he would instruct them in God's plan for rebuilding from the wreckage of the war. Donald Stone, a high-ranking administrator of the Marshall Plan, joined the directorship of Vereide's organization. In an undated letter, he wrote Vereide that he would “soon begin a tour around the world for the , combining with this a spiritual mission.” In 1946, Vereide, too, toured the world, traveling with letters of introduction from a half dozen senators and representatives, and from Paul G. Hoffman, the director of the Marshall Plan. He traveled also with a mandate from General John Hildring, assistant secretary of state, to oversee the creation of a list of good Germans of “the predictable type” (many of whom, Vereide believed, were being held for having “the faintest connection” with the Nazi regime), who could be released from prison “to be used, according to their ability in the tremendous task of reconstruction.” Vereide met with Jewish survivors and listened to their stories, but he nevertheless considered ex-Nazis well suited for the demands of “strong” government, so long as they were willing to worship Christ as they had Hitler.

In 1955, Senator Frank Carlson, a close adviser to Eisenhower and an even closer associate of Vereide's, convened a meeting at which he declared the Family's mission to be a “worldwide spiritual offensive,” in which common cause would be made with anyone opposed to the Soviet Union. That same year, the Family financed an anti-Communist propaganda film, Militant Liberty, for use by the Defense Department in influencing opinion abroad. By the Kennedy era, the spiritual offensive had fronts on every continent but Antarctica (which Family missionaries would not visit until the 1980s). In 1961, Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia deeded the Family a prime parcel in downtown Addis Ababa to serve as an African headquarters, and by then the Family also had powerful friends in South Africa, Nigeria, and Kenya. Back home, Senator Strom Thurmond prepared several reports for Vereide concerning the Senate's deliberations. Former president Eisenhower, Doug Coe would later claim at a private meeting of politicians, once pledged secret operatives to aid the Family's operations. Even in Franco's Spain, Vereide once boasted at a prayer breakfast in 1965, “there are secret cells such as the American Embassy the Standard Oil office to move practically anywhere.”

By the late sixties, Vereide's speeches to local prayer breakfast groups had become minor news events, and Family members' travels on behalf of Christ had attracted growing press attention. Vereide began to worry that the movement he had spent his life building might become just another political party. In 1966, a few years before he was “promoted” to heaven at age eighty-four, Vereide wrote a letter declaring it time to “submerge the institutional image of .” No longer would the Family recruit its powerful members in public, nor recruit so many. “There has always been one man,” wrote Vereide, “or a small core who have caught the vision for their country and become aware of what a 'leadership led by God' could mean spiritually to the nation and to the world. . . . It is these men, banded together, who can accomplish the vision God gave me years ago.”

-snip

http://harpers.org/archive/2003/03/0079525


Hillary's Prayer: Hillary Clinton's Religion and Politics

NEWS: For 15 years, Hillary Clinton has been part of a secretive religious group that seeks to bring Jesus back to Capitol Hill. Is she triangulating—or living her faith?

By Kathryn Joyce and Jeff Sharlet
Illustration by: Andy Friedman
September 1, 2007



It was an elegant example of the Clinton style, a rhetorical maneuver subtle, bold, and banal all at once. During a Democratic candidate forum in June, hosted by the liberal evangelical group Sojourners, Hillary Clinton fielded a softball query about Bill's infidelity: How had her faith gotten her through the Lewinsky scandal?

After a glancing shot at Republican "pharisees," Clinton explained that, of course, her "very serious" grounding in faith had helped her weather the affair. But she had also relied on the "extended faith family" that came to her aid, "people whom I knew who were literally praying for me in prayer chains, who were prayer warriors for me."

Such references to spiritual warfare—prayer as battle against Satan, evil, and sin—might seem like heavy evangelical rhetoric for the senator from New York, but they went over well with the Sojourners audience, as did her call to "inject faith into policy." It was language that recalled Clinton's Jesus moment a year earlier, when she'd summoned the Bible to decry a Republican anti-immigrant initiative that she said would "criminalize the good Samaritan...and even Jesus himself." Liberal Christians crowed ("Hillary Clinton Shows the Way Democrats Can Use the Bible," declared a blogger at TPMCafe) while conservative pundits cried foul, accusing Clinton of scoring points with a faith not really her own.

-snip

Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer.

-snip
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[hell-bent]

56. Did you get that information

from Rush or Hannity? What a load of horse shit!

[still_one]

18. There are Churches who preach against gays, and Jews, and Catholics

and other "special groups", and people don't leave those churches, yet they don't subscribe to those views

Watch the Democratic party implode, at least in the race for the executive branch in November

Obviously, guilt by association is OK with people here, so maybe we should view some of the Clinton's associations

[DemBones DemBones]

81. People SHOULD leave those churches if they

believe in what Jesus taught.

And if they're politicians running for something other than Grand Wizard, they should leave to save their own
asses, if not their souls.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. Had You Been An Obama Supporter Or Unbiased? I'm Sincerely Asking, Cause I Can't Remember.

[hiaasenrocks]

95. Edwards, and will probably vote Green in the general.

[kid a]

123. then kindly get the fuck out of here - Is this GREEN underground? nt

[NDambi]

27. FYI: There's no new digging..this is rehashed ...btw, don't go counting your rednecks before they

crack..lol

[islandmkl]

28. what is this..."I'll see you in September"??...

if baggage is going to derail Obama...then

i would suggest that Hillary just step off the tracks..it's laughable that any baggage Barack carries compares to the Clinton travel bags...

the list is so long the RW can just run it out one item, one day at a time from whenever they want until November...

lame lame lame lame lame lame....

[Johnny__Motown]

32. good luck with that. Hillary can't catch up on delegates even with this crap out there. See Ya Hill

[Cooley Hurd]

34. In roughly 3 hrs, this faux "scandal" will be gone...

...and you'll be back to calling us a "cult.":eyes:

[hiaasenrocks]

122. It's been about 3 hours now. The story is still going.

And I never stopped calling Oprahbama's following a "cult."

[Cooley Hurd]

134. No, the story is effectively legless now...

It's been addressed on ALL THREE cable news nets by Senator Obama and has been defused.

It's over...

[hiaasenrocks]

135. Obama hasn't defused anything.

That's why the story will continue.

You're just expressing hope that it's over. Hope. Hope. Hope. Typical Obama supporter. No facts needed, just hope!

[krawhitham]

40. where are those tax returns again?

[theredpen]

44. Megadittos, hiaasenrocks

I was reading this thinking, "Where have I heard this before?"

Oh yeah, http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_031408/content/01125106.guest.html">Rush Limbaugh said it. Almost word-for-word!

That's like the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, the spiritual advisor and chosen pastor of Barack Obama for the past 20 years. Some questions for Senator Obama after all of this. Senator Obama, surely you knew of your pastor's background. You knew what he believed. You knew what he preached. You knew he was a race-baiter and a hatemonger. Yet you not only joined his church, you remained there for 20 years; you had this pastor marry you and your wife, and you had him baptize your children. Can you explain yourself, here? ... Do you think that's healthy for your kids to hear?

Politics... strange bedfellows and all that.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

48. This reinforces his position in post # 23 above.

Nice find!

[burythehatchet]

65. HAHAHAhahahHAHAHahAhhhahha the OP is a DITTOHEAD

:rofl:

[Ichingcarpenter]

89. No surprise here .... he has repeated a lot of ditto head talking points

over time.

[Ichingcarpenter]

92. He's probably trying to find Rush's Xerox machine and drugs

so he can do a rebuttal.

[hiaasenrocks]

93. Why are you listening to Rush Limbaugh?

When you say "Where have I heard this before?" you're admitting that you listen to him.

I don't care if you believe me or not, but I haven't listened to his show in probably 10 years. Call me any name you want, accuse me of listening to anyone you want, it won't matter because your opinion (as an admitted Limbaugh listener) means nothing here. But if you need to continue to divert from the fact that Obama is going down in this firestorm, you go right ahead.

I know this won't be fair, but allow me to use a little logic.

The points I made in the first paragraph -- the ones you recognized because you listen to drug-addict Limbaugh -- were pretty general. It's obvious that the main points are that Obama had to know what his own pastor says (especially since he asked Wright not to show up at his presidential announcement) and it's pretty obvious that he brought his kids to church, like most church-goers do.

These are pretty general questions. What's odd is that you won't address them and defend Obama. What's even more strange is that Obama can't answer these questions.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

[theredpen]

96. I've actually never listened to Rush Limbaugh

...but like many DUers, I browse Free Republic to see what they Freepers have to say on various topics. I clicked on a Free Republic post on the topic of Obama's pastor and someone had posted that paragraph from Rush's site. Then I come here and find that you've posted the exact same thing.

Nice try with the turnabout, but you're not fooling anyone.

[hiaasenrocks]

99. Ah, so you get your Rush talking points from Freeperland.

I won't ask how often you listen to Bortz or Hannity.

I'd rather know what you think about Obama and his association with this pastor.

If you have nothing of substance to add (other than the talking points you pick up from listening to right-wing talk radio and reading right-wing websites) then I guess we're done here.

Your call.

[theredpen]

109. Man, you are pissed that I found your source

I'll bet you're one of those Freeper trolls who figures that us librulz don't monitor your site. We'll never guess where you got your brilliant talking point. Bzzzt. Busted.

[hiaasenrocks]

114. Yes, you got me.

As a member (and a donating member) longer than you, I'm just crushed that a person who admits to getting Limbaugh talking points from Free Republic is not accepting me into the fold.

:sarcasm:

LOL. I think we've all had enough of this, but I'm sure you have more bullshit. The floor is yours from here on out (if you have time to post between reading right-wing sites).

[anamandujano]

143. This proves that Limburger is almost as smart as a 12 year old.

Those questions would occur to anyone with the most basic logical reasoning.

[jgraz]

49. Another Hill supporter wets themselves with glee over the prospect of a virulent racist backlash

You do your candidate proud.

[hiaasenrocks]

100. My candidate is no longer in this race.

As for your candidate, and how proud you are of him for being in a racist church, well, that's for you to explain, I guess.

[jgraz]

128. Sorry, I forgot. Huckabee DID drop out a while back

My apologies.

[hiaasenrocks]

136. I'll make a deal with you.

You send me a link to any post I wrote that even remotely hints that I was for Huckabee, and I'll send $1,000 to your favorite charity, or DU, or whomever you choose.

Now you have some incentive to back up your assertion. Let's see what you come up with.

[rodeodance]

50. See ya, Barack.

[rateyes]

52. Wake up and smell the coffee!

Obama will be the nominee.

[Arugula Latte]

54. Get a grip. You are unhinged and delusional.

[rodeodance]

57. BO will be in full DAMAGE CONTROL MODE

[hell-bent]

60. Wait, wait, Obama

never heard those hateful, racist words coming from the good Reverend Wright in his 20 years of being a member of this church. :sarcasm:

[rodeodance]

68. i can't believe these dudes here on DU actually think all is well with bo now!!

[hiaasenrocks]

110. Obama supporters will believe anything.

As evidenced by their support for Obama.

[burythehatchet]

58. YOU are ready for MSNBC...the analysis and diagnosis of the political

landscape that you have presented is indeed exquisite. Got any stock tips?

[Nitrogenica]

63. Goodbye, newly ignored Swift Boat DU-er for Truth.

Bye Bye!

[hiaasenrocks]

94. Believe me, I'm not surprised that an Obama supporter ignores the truth

and the tough questions.

[Radical Activist]

74. Over react much?

According to the right wing every liberal is racist and anti-american.

And if you think Obama is out then you might as well give up because Hillary doesn't have a chance in hell.

[blogslut]

77. How is the pastor a racist?

In your view?

[hiaasenrocks]

104. Several reasons.

One is his fondness for the racist and anti-Semite Farrakhan.

Another is his claim that white America had a wake-up call on 9/11.

Another is his specific attack on Natalee Holloway: "One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!"

Just to name a few.

[KoKo]

78. "Two Clowns." ........it's turning out that way....n/t

[Usrename]

79. OMFG!! Obama has a black pastor!!

Next he'll be having black babies!

[Ichingcarpenter]

90. The OP quotes Rush for his talking points

he admitted he was a big Rush listener at one time.

"just for fun" you know, "to see what he's saying" you know.

[hiaasenrocks]

98. Where did I admit I was a big Rush listener at one time?

In my response to the person who admitted that he listens to Rush currently (based on the quote he posted) I said that I haven't listened to his show in about 10 years.

Yes, I have heard his show. I have heard many radio shows. Most of them suck (right and left), and I don't listen to any of them anymore.

Please try not to lie about what I said. Thank you.

[Ichingcarpenter]

102. But you quote Rush in your OP

almost word for word.

[hiaasenrocks]

105. Are you going to back up what you said about me

or are you going to take back the lie?

Here's my explanation of my words: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5082729&mesg_id=5085309

[theredpen]

107. Don't bother trying to get a straight answer from this guy.

He's a troll.

[hiaasenrocks]

108. I see you've run out of responses.

That was quick.

So now we wait to see if the lie is retracted or backed up by the other poster. This should be good.

[theredpen]

112. *PLONK*

[hiaasenrocks]

115. Awww. You're so easily frustrated when someone calls your bullshit.

:rofl:

[hiaasenrocks]

106. No one is even coming close to making any comments

that would warrant that response.

This isn't about Obama's race.

Thanks for playing.

[Usrename]

118. Oh, sorry. I thought this thread was about Obama's uppity black pastor.

:eyes:

[hiaasenrocks]

119. Apology accepted.

It's about what he said, not what his skin color is.

[Usrename]

125. Right, he is sort of fair-skinned.

Not like those really scary ultra dark-skinned uppity preachers.

[hiaasenrocks]

137. Your words, not mine, and I never hinted at any such thing.

Why are you so focused on race? It looks like you're showing yourself to be the race-baiter here.

[Usrename]

140. You don't agree that this has anything to do with race.

Why do you hate Jesus?

[MrSlayer]

91. So, it's hello President McCain then.

Probably the way it was always going to be I guess. This country ended the second the fucking Chimp was allowed to steal the Presidency.

[Bright Eyes]

97. Ohhh....new people for my ignore list!

Goodie!

[powergirl]

116. A weak campaign is one that relies on eliminating the competition

instead of shining and winning on their own merits and ability. The Clinton strategy is not based of winning but instead, hoping that everyone else fails so there is no one to compete with - in the primary.

This is failing strategy and this is what causes a loss in the general election. Only the candidate that shines will win. That candidate is Obama. He does not need to drag down Sen. Clinton. He has himself.

[anamandujano]

144. Got any proof that Clinton introduced him to Wright and Rezko 20 years ago, then

proceeded to trick him into giving up any common sense God may have given him, in a shady effort to sabotage this run for the presidency?

Didn't think so.

[powergirl]

146. Again, my point is made - the weakest candidate is hoping their opponent will just leave

Another attack against a strong candidate - just hoping against hope that this will be the one to make them go away. The weak candidate cannot win by their own acts and deeds. Sen. Clinton should be so overwhelmingly impressive that she can win by herself - not crossing her fingers and hoping that she does not need to reckon with Sen. Obama. That is why she cannot win the GE - she needs to have her own mojo - not the hope of someone having less.

:patriot:

[chapel hill dem]

117. The republicans seem to think Hillary is easier to beat than BO.

When I hear that Obama is unelectable, I have to wonder...

[question everything]

120. And this is the point. Not so much Wright, but the fact that, in constrast

to Clinton, he does not have much of a track record to search and amplify and to negate.

But even the media realized that it had given Obama a clear ride so now that story is blown out of proportion because this is the only one it has. Same with Michelle comments.

[ORDem]

124. crickets. n/t

:rofl:

[cooolandrew]

126. Had a great evening shame you missed his apperances they were great.

[On the Road]

127. See ya?

Just keep sayin' that all the way down.

[nyccitizen]

132. The honest truth is this story will be gone in a week...

If this story broke a week before PA or a week before the General Election, it could have had an effect. But the rate at which 24 hour cable news chews through a story and spits it out, and considering the deftness with which Obama has handled it thus far, it will run its course quickly and people will stop giving a crap about it in due time. Something else will happen to take the attention away... another politician will get caught with a prostitute or soliciting sex in a bathroom stall, a big celebrity will kick the bucket, Britney will get married again, whatever.

The point is, those of you who think the Pastor Wright thing will "ruin" Obama, in the long run it will have as much of an effect on him in this election as Whitewater has had on Hillary, or the Keating Five has had on McCain, or Travelgate has had on Hillary, or Lewinskygate has had on Hillary, or Norman Hsu has had on Hillary, etc etc.

Honestly, it's better for Obama that it came out now... it will be old news well before PA votes and ancient history by the GE.

[HuffleClaw]

133. many of his supporters will excuse ANYTHING he does

as will hillary's

this 'race' has become a circus sideshow

[NobleCynic]

139. As long as we're doing the whole guilt by association thing...

You like Dave Barry?

Nothing you say can be taken seriously. Ever.

Sadly, at this point, we have to consider which of the two remaining is less damaging in the general.

You have Clinton with 16 years of irrational right wing hatred that will drive up Republican turnout, her middling position on the war, the nepotism factor (i.e. she wouldn't be where she is without Bill Clinton. Regardless of the truth of that statement, it is widely believed.), all of the Bill Clinton scandals hanging over her head still, her abrasive personality, and the still strong sexism in this country.

Then you have Obama, who has a mediocre record to run on, a Muslim middle name (and yes many people are dumb enough to vote against him on that alone), the fishy looking (regardless of the truth of the matter) Rezko dealings, a crazy pastor, and the still strong racism in this country.

Then you have each candidate's high points.

You know exactly what you're going to get with Clinton, and that comforts many people. It won't be a visionary administration that changes the country in any scary or frightening manner. Or any meaningful manner. People know exactly what they're getting, and that will help turnout. A centrist placeholder administration.

Obama on the other hand will likely bring record turnout among young voters and African American voters. He has run a very optimistic campaign and is relatively unscarred by the media thus far. On the issues he is fundamentally the same as Clinton.

My take is that even with this Wright thing, Obama is still the better candidate in the general. People seem willing to give religion a by when it comes to crazy, so I don't see this Wright thing sticking.

I feel that our turnout would be better with Obama at the head of the ticket, and the Republican's turnout would be better with Clinton atop the ticket. There is just too much cumulative damage on Clinton. Policy wise they have run campaigns that are extremely similar, so my stance on only based on electability.

[Perry Logan]

141. Does this serve the Obama people right, or WHAT?