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After listening to Rev. Wright, he is, well, right.

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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:38 PM
Original message
After listening to Rev. Wright, he is, well, right.
The United States has been complicit in running around the world installing dictators, starting coups, selling drugs and arms, and well fucking with every "third world" country that is left. Is it any wonder why other people around the world in these "third world" countries hate the United States. Its not about our freedoms, which are sorely lacking (secret legislative sessions for Mr. 19% ring a bell with anyone). Even on DU reports are trickling in about top CIA explaining that Al Quada is a big fat ruse, and the CIA is behind that hornets nest too.

Sometimes the truth is hard to hear. I can understand why people don't know these things. Its not like the Bush text books are teaching real history, economics, or civics in school. Its time people wake the fuck up. Everytime they play a clip of Rev. Wright, I say "right on, keep talking man, keep after the truth." Can it be that the impoverished inner cities have a better understanding of America than the good little Harvard scholar? I only wish Obama would say, "he's right about some of these things".. shoot he's got a following Jesus would envy. I wish he would use his pulpit to preach the truth.

Anyway, its obvious that people are scared of Rev. Wright's message. Of course a lot of truth speakers in this country find themselves silenced much too early. Isn't our democracy grand.. Personally, I think its just grandly hypocritical.
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. I was waiting for someone else to notice. "Not all wanderers are lost" people. He has a point. nt
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Then why did Obama throw him under the bus?
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Didn't say he fired him ... Wright is just "no longer on the committee"
Could be Wright resigned. He knew Obama might have to distance himself so
this came as no big surprise to Wright (and no bruised egos).
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I guess it was the power thing. "Spontaneous coincidental resignation"
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. He didn't throw him under the bus...
He threw him off the bus. I'm sure you heard him say, he thought of him as an Uncle, who got out of hand There is no room for truth in Politics.
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Rex_Goodheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. You're not doing the Democratic Party any favors by defending that lunatic
"God damn America' and "US of KKKA"... that's really all you need to know, and all the ammo the Repubs need to defeat Obama.
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latinolatteliberal Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. if only we could get past our collective daddy issues
Honestly, why do we care about the blessings or damnation from an imaginary father figure in the sky?

The man is angry. Did he use that anger to say things that are divisive? No shit. And that alone is a good enough reason for Obama to distance himself. But that doesn't make the man a lunatic.

McCarthyism in all its stripes is deplorable.
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. your post wins
.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. The problem is, he takes it all the way to the conclusion that the U.S. "deserves" terrorism.
As do many radicals who believe terrorist acts are merely the justified vengeance of a frustrated, oppressed people.

When you do that, you go too far, and anyone associated with you gets in trouble.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. No, he doesn't. And if you read what he said, in full and in context, you'd know that.
but it is certain, Wright used politically incorrect phrasing.
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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Oh please. Reverend Wright has placed himself in the same category as Ann Coulter. {EOM}
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. I DID read it. In full and in context.
Anyone who says "the chickens have come home to roost" in reference to 9/11 is not just saying "Our acts in the world have motivated others to hate us." He is using the "We not only invited it, it was not only to be expected, but we DESERVED it" argument.

Bullshit. Nobody deserves terrorism. Nobody.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. No, but do you think 1 million dead Iraqi's deserved it, or the 4 million displaced,
or the 5 million orphaned children.. Do you think that the people in Afghanistan, the women, men, and children who could care less who Osama bin Ladin was, deserved the bombings that continue to rattle the country. I'm not saying anyone deserves violence, but to expect people to continue turning the cheek while they become scarred due to the violence we install on them.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. What are they supposed to do? How do they defend themselves?
Sorry, but the policies and actions of the United States and its Imperialistic Police State is absolutely disgusting.. People in general need peace. Instead of looking at what happened on 9/11, and looking to change the horrible policy and work towards worldwide peace, we engaged in illeagal wars.. AND now we have spying, shitty journalism, corporate whorism, empty treasury, torture, and concentration camps.. I don't know if God is damning anyone or if Kharma is coming around to kick some major ass..AND yes, we are complicit in laziness, ignorance, and fear all wrapped up in a fucking flag.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. And to support peace, you can't find a better way than to imply terrorism is justified
as punishment of the oppressed against their oppressors when they can't get their attention any other way?

Yeah. Big help there.

We will never have peace until we make EVERYONE responsible for bringing it about. That means we have to have zero tolerance for terrorism as a political tactic, just as we have to have zero tolerance for oppression. "Karma" is bullshit.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Most of them are not involved in terrorist plots.. but you have to realize that
we trained "Al Quada". We trained them to fight Russia. We put them in Bosnia. We then put bases in Saudi Arabia.. and the trained warriors came back to get us... Full circle in a circle of violence...
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
26. He didn't say "deserves". If you listen to his statement, and then read a bit of the Bible
particularly the prophets, the context is much more clear and even sensible. He is acting in the tradition of the prophets who called down the wrath of god upon their wicked nation, unless it changed its ways. He lists iniquities and damns the establishment as the sacred cow would be damned.

In the prophet's time the Babylonians were seen as the "wrath of God"; the equivalent in ours is obvious.

Personally I have no use for any of this, but I have less use for gut-based hatred and misunderstanding.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hillary supporters must've never heard of "Blowback". Some don't even the CIA pushed crack
into minority neighborhoods, or that the privatized prison system doesn't make money of incarcerating huge numbers of minorities and that our justice system is skewed to minorities disadvantage.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Ah yes we do. And slamming Hillary supporters really ain't helping your guy.
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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good luck with the "God Damn America" platform. {EOM}
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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. LOL! Good luck winning an election with that "God Damn America" platform. {EOM}
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 06:44 PM by The Night Owl
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
40. I know there are
a bunch of racists here on DU, and that many of these people think they are a part of main stream America. I think they forget there's a whole generation of people that are more offended by what their country does, than in hearing a Preacher say it. Thank Goodness for the Internet. No one need be ignorant any more.



excerpts from the book
Blowback The Costs and Consequences of American Empire
by Chalmers Johnson
Henry Holt, 2000

The term "blowback," which officials of the Central Intelligence Agency first invented for their own internal use, is starting to circulate among students of international relations. It refers to the unintended consequences of policies that were kept secret from the American people. What the daily press reports as the malign acts of "terrorists" or "drug lords" or "rogue states" or "illegal arms merchants" often turn out to be blowback from earlier American operations.
p9
One man's terrorist is, of course, another man's freedom fighter, and what U.S. officials denounce as unprovoked terrorist attacks on its innocent citizens are often meant as retaliation for previous American imperial actions. Terrorists attack innocent and undefended American targets precisely because American soldiers and sailors firing cruise missiles from ships at sea or sitting in B-52 bombers at extremely high altitudes or supporting brutal and repressive regimes from Washington seem invulnerable. As members of the Defense Science Board wrote in a 1997 report to the undersecretary of defense for acquisition and technology, "Historical data show a strong correlation between U.S. involvement in international situations and an increase in terrorist attacks against the United States. In addition, the military asymmetry that denies nation states the ability to engage in overt attacks against the United States drives the use of transnational actors ."
The most direct and obvious form of blowback often occurs when the victims fight back after a secret American bombing, or a U.S.-sponsored campaign of state terrorism, or a ClA-engineered overthrow of a foreign political leader. All around the world today, it is possible to see the groundwork being laid for future forms of blowback.
p12
-----------------------------------------
Terrorism(by definition)strikes at the innocent in order to draw attention to the sins of the invulnerable. The innocent of the twenty-first century are going to harvest unexpected blowback disasters from the imperialist escapades of recent decades. Although most Americans may be largely ignorant of what was, and still is, being done in their names, all are likely to pay a steep price-individually and collectively-for their nation's continued efforts to dominate the global scene. Before the damage of heedless triumphalist acts and the triumphalist rhetoric and propaganda that goes with them becomes irreversible, it is important to open a new discussion of our global role during and after the Cold War...
----------------------

"Blowback" is shorthand for saying that a nation reaps what it sows, even if it does not fully know or understand what it has sown. Given its wealth and power, the United States will be a prime recipient in the foreseeable future of all of the more expectable forms of blowback, particularly terrorist attacks against Americans in and out of the armed forces anywhere on earth, including within the United States. But it is blowback in its larger aspect-the tangible costs of empire-that truly threatens it. Empires are costly operations, and they become more costly by the year. The hollowing out of American industry, for instance, is a form of blowback-an unintended negative consequence of American policy- even though it is seldom recognized as such. The growth of militarism in a once democratic society is another example of blowbackEmpire is the problem. Even though the United States has a strong sense of invulnerability and substantial military and economic tools to make such a feeling credible, the fact of its imperial pretensions means that a crisis is inevitable. More imperialist projects simply generate more blowback. If we do not begin to solve problems in more prudent and modest ways, blowback will only become more intense.

----------------------------------
World politics in the twenty-first century will in all likelihood be driven primarily by blowback from the second half of the twentieth century-that is, from the unintended consequences of the Cold War and the crucial American decision to maintain a Cold War posture in a post-Cold War world. U.S. administrations did what they thought they had to do in the Cold War years. History will record that in some places they did exemplary things; in other places, particularly in East Asia but also in Central America, they behaved no better than the Communist bureaucrats of their superpower competitor. The United States likes to think of itself as the winner of the Cold War. In all probability, to those looking back a century hence, neither side will appear to have won, particularly if the United States maintains its present imperial course.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blowback_CJohnson/Blowback_BCJ.html
March 21, 2001
Silencing the Messenger
Censoring NarcoNews

by Gary Webb

Not long after I wrote a series for the San Jose Mercury News about a drug ring that had flooded South Central Los Angeles with cheap cocaine at the beginning of the crack explosion there, a strange thing happened to me. I was silenced.

This, believe it or not, came as something of a surprise to me. For 17 years I had been writing newspaper stories about grafters, crooked bankers, corrupt politicians and killers -- and winning armloads of journalism awards for it. Some of my stories had convened grand juries and sent important people to well-deserved jail cells. Others ended up on 20/20, and later became a best-selling book (not written by me, unfortunately.) I started doing television news shows, speaking to college journalism classes and professional seminars. I had major papers bidding against each other to hire me.

So when I happened across information implicating an arm of the Central Intelligence Agency in the cocaine trade, I had no qualms about jumping onto it with both feet. What did I have to worry about? I was a newspaperman for a big city, take-no-prisoners newspaper. I had the First Amendment, a law firm, and a multi-million dollar corporation watching my back.

Besides, this story was a fucking outrage. Right-wing Latin American drug dealers were helping finance a CIA-run covert war in Nicaragua by selling tons of cocaine to the Crips and Bloods in LA, who were turning it into crack and spreading it through black neighborhoods nationwide. And all the available evidence pointed to the sickening conclusion that elements of the US government had known of it and had either tacitly encouraged it or, at a minimum, done absolutely nothing to stop it.

And that's when this strange thing happened. The national news media, instead of using its brute strength to force the truth from our government, decided that its time would be better spent investigating me and my reporting. They kicked me around pretty good, I have to admit. (At one point, I was even accused of making movie deals with a crack dealer I'd written about. The DEA raided my film agent's office looking for any scrap of paper to back up this lie and appeared disappointed when they came up emptyhanded.)

To this day, no one has ever been able to show me a single error of fact in anything I've written about this drug ring, which includes a 600-page book about the whole tragic mess. Indeed, most of what has come out since shows that my newspaper stories grossly underestimated the extent of our government's knowledge, an error to which I readily confess. But, in the end, the facts didn't really matter. What mattered was making the damned thing go away, shutting people up, and making anyone who demanded the truth appear to be a wacky conspiracy theorist. And it worked.

http://www.narconews.com/warroom.html



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/may97/tuskegee_5-...
AN APOLOGY 65 YEARS LATE

May 16, 1997
Lasting Legacy

Beginning in 1932, the federal government sponsored a study to examine the impact of syphilis involving black men. The experiment went on until 1972 without the test subjects' knowledge, but no President had apologized to the volunteers and their families until President Clinton did so today. Following a background report on the experiment, Charlayne Hunter-Gault looks at what the legacy of Tuskegee.


How the CIA sent Nelson Mandela
to prison for 28 years
by William Blum


When Nelson Mandela was released from prison in February 1990, President George Bush personally telephoned the black South African leader to tell him that all Americans were "rejoicing at your release". This was the same Nelson Mandela who was imprisoned for almost 28 years because the CIA tipped off South African authorities as to where they could find him. This was the same George Bush who was once the head of the CIA and who for eight years was second in power of an administration whose CIA and National Security Agency collaborated closely with the South African intelligence service, providing information about Mandela's African National Congress.{1} The ANC, like all left-leaning nationalistic movements, was perceived by Washington as being part of the infamous (albeit mythical) International Communist Conspiracy.
On August 5, 1962, Nelson Mandela had been on the run for 17 months when armed police at a roadblock flagged down his car outside Howick, Natal. How the police came to be there was not publicly explained. In late July 1986, however, stories appeared in three South African newspapers (picked up shortly thereafter by the London press and, in part, by CBS-TV) which shed considerable light on the question. The stories told of how a CIA officer, Donald C. Rickard by name, under cover as a consular official in Durban, had tipped off the Special Branch that Mr. Mandela would be disguised as a chauffeur in a car headed for Durban. This was information Rickard had obtained through an informer in the ANC.
One year later, at a farewell party for him in South Africa, at the home of the notorious CIA mercenary, Colonel "Mad Mike" Hoare, Rickard himself, his tongue perhaps loosened by spirits, stated in the hearing of some of those present that he had been due to meet Mandela on the fateful night, but tipped off the police instead. Rickard refused to discuss the affair when approached by CBS.{2}
While Mandela's youth and health ebbed slowly away behind prison walls, Rickard retired to live in comfort and freedom in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. He resides there still today. His brother, Samuel Harmer Rickard, III, was a CIA officer as well for many years.
NOTES
1. New York Times, July 23, 1986
2. The Guardian (London), August 15, 1986; The Times (London), August 4, 1986
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/CIAMandela_WBlum...




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Crooked Moon Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
9. will you then see mr. obama as a hypocrite
when he throws him under the bus repeatedly during primetime tonight?
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. What is he supposed to do? He's running for President in Old, White America.
These people are the most clueless, addle brained, drugged asshats that actually go out and vote. Sorry, I still know little old grannies who see a black man coming towards them and they hide their purse..
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. I heard him say he thought of him as...
an Uncle, who sometimes said things he disagreed with. I don't think that's throwing him under the bus, I think that is throwing him off the bus. There is no room for the unvarnished truth in politics.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. I really don't disagree with anything I've heard Wright say
but his sermons are extremely damaging politically. I'm actually shocked that Obama didn't clean this up before running....at least buy up all the tapes and sermons and destroy them. Very bad judgment on his part here.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Destroying tapes/sermons is what ... another candidate might do
Obama believes in free speech and is now dealing with this in the best way he can. He's
not trying to be the perfect candidate -- scrubbing his resume of anything negative --
he's just being himself (and allowing his surrogates to do the same).
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Look I'm a big Obama supporter
but you have to face political realities. It has nothing to do with free speech. This church should not have been selling tapes of those sermons until after the GE. It was stupid of him not to do anything about this. Fox news just bought the tapes directly from the church I think.

And for the same reason you can't get access to Michelle Obama's thesis at Princeton until November (although copies of it from before are floating around).
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. The church has to make money, remember ...
Should it be restricted from selling tapes of Wright's sermons (and interested people unable to
get tapes of them) just because one of its members decided to run for president? Yes, this is a
challenge for Obama, but I don't think he has the right to dictate how the church conducts itself
(especially if he's selling himself as a different kind of candidate).

As for Michelle's thesis, that's HER writing, and she should be able to restrict access to it if
she wishes.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. I said they should have BOUGHT up the tapes,
not stolen them. The church would've been compensated for them, if someone had bought them up. That would've been the smart thing to do.

It's not like Obama is so scandal ridden that they couldn't have seen that this would be an issue.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. Actually this gets the truth out they probably didnt want this to get big really.
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 06:51 PM by cooolandrew
Once folks get past his animated speech he is making valid pints.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Exactly the point.. Now the spin dr's like Rush and M$M are running scared.
I was listening to Rush and a lot of people called in and said Rush, what is diff. from this than Falwell.. at least Rev. Wright is speaking the truth of what the US has been up to. A really old man called and said basically to stuff it.. was freaking hilarious.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. When he says "its in the Book" he is speaking of the prophetic tradition
A "Jeremaiad" is the oratory of a prophet calling down the wrath of god upon a country, unless it changes its wicked ways.

You can quibble over facts, such as the AIDs thing, but he speaks from a tradition far older than this country. Traditionally, also, prophets have been killed by the powers-that-be.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Yea. He must believe in it just like Pat Robertson. Two peas in a pod.
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bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Or Billy Graham, or Parsley, or many others
I can't say I have any use for any of it.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Me either. I find their beliefs and where they lay blame disgusting
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
25. His views don't seem that far out there to me....
Edited on Fri Mar-14-08 06:57 PM by woolldog
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nancyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
34. I feel the same way.
The truth is the truth. It isn't always pretty.
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latebloomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
36. Most of what he says makes perfect sense to me
and makes me hopeful that Obama actually shares these views. Of course he can't possibly admit it.

I'm sickened by the shocked and condemning reaction of the media, and pundits like Jonathan Alter. Apparently they've all been fast asleep for the past 60 years.

K & R
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
37. I agree with the Rev and I hope Obama does too.
I'd be happy if someone with that viewpoint were in the white house. I bet most of the people crying bloody murder on DU would have agreed with the same statements from someone else if it had been posted last week.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
39. there is no room for truth in politics...
evidently there is not a whole lot of room for truth here on DU either...
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
42. I agree - he is right. I think he could have said it with a better choice of words, but he's right.
We're a nation run by warmongers, with an ugly undercurrent of racism, and economic equality at a level that's just plain unacceptable.
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