Our local DEC is trying to get candidates NOT to emphasize pro-choice.

[madfloridian]

I have a real issue with this. It makes me angry.

Here is what I think is going on. I know there have been discussions among individuals at county DEC level that is "best not to be too confrontational in our fundamentalist area."

Now it comes down to what is considered confrontational. Is posting your issues on your website confrontational or honest? Is not being afraid to discuss it when asked being confrontational or honest?

Yes, our area is right wing in nature. However, there are more of us moderates and liberals here than the Democrats realize. They do not take the time to find out because they are so busy "not confronting" the GOP on the issues.

I was talking to someone in my home on the committee yesterday who is privy to the policies being discussed. They are advocating not being too open about womens' right issues. It is not official.

It is not just womens' rights. It is all issues that must be confronted. They don't intend to bring up Iraq war issues much either.

Is anyone mad yet? Does anyone care? I sat here and listened yesterday, and I realized that our area is going nowhere in November but back to the GOP. There was energy for a while, and lots of enthusiasm. Then Dean was out. We are still active, but the local groups are taking care of that quickly. It is like a death knell on activism....back to the mantra of playing nice and making no waves and not upsetting the Republicans.

Sometimes I just want to cry.

[freetobegay]

1. Who is you local DEC?

eom

[sandnsea]

2. Education, health care, jobs

I thought Howard Dean said we should focus on things that matter and stop voting on wedge issues, like abortion, gays, and guns. And you really want to take on the war in the Florida Panhandle??? I think your Dem committee is right. Women know what's at stake on abortion. They're already motivated there. Tell them about better education and health care programs for their kids, that'll tip the scale. If we get women out to vote this year, we win. Give them plenty of reasons to come to the polls, don't make them squirm over abortion. Not in your area.

[madfloridian]

3. Wow, thanks, I get your point. Wow Wow.

They do not even want the candidates discussing it. I am glad you think that is ok. I personally think if you have an issue you believe, and someone asks you....you should be open and honest.

I also think that ALL the issues should be on every candidate's website in open view.

That point of view is exactly why the GOP is going to win Florida. Our Democrats here are so cowed and pathetic statewide that I am frankly quite worried.

ON EDIT:
This is what I was saying, and you apparently did not understand.
QUOTE:...."Now it comes down to what is considered confrontational. Is posting your issues on your website confrontational or honest? Is not being afraid to discuss it when asked being confrontational or honest?"

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

7. I think that was not very nice.

You have every right to say it, but I think it was a little unnecessary.

I firmly hold to my position that we can not avoid such issues here. Sorry we just totally disagree on this.

[sandnsea]

10. Every post you post

It's all the same. Some variation of everything's gone to shit because Dean isn't in the race.

"There was energy for a while, and lots of enthusiasm. Then Dean was out."

[madfloridian]

14. You are just misreading then.

No, I never say what you said with the word sh**. I never did. I think Dean's role is going to be a great one, maybe more so than being a candidate. After November, there will be 3 wings of the party, DLC, DNC, and DFA. Don't believe me? That's ok, we'll see.

Yes, the energy is gone from our area. You are not here, you do not know. The meetings had grown, there was a sense of excitement.

Last week they gave a big dinner, all dressy and all. They had planned for 500 with good reason. I was going to post the pictures, but I was ashamed to do so with good reason. Most of the tables were empty. I refuse to post the pictures of such an embarrassment.

Here is a pic of former gubernatorial candidate, former Senator Daryl Jones. He is probably going to run in 2006 as well. It was humiliating how few were there to see him and hear him speak. Most of the pictures are of empty tables.
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT in the picture.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

19. You are probably right.

I am not a good Democrat.

[sandnsea]

22. I didn't say that

I just said all you've been posting is gloom and doom because Howard's gone. For weeks now. It's getting nauseating and it doesn't help anything. There has to be SOMETHING you can excited about in your area. SOMETHING. ANYTHING. Come on, gal, snap out of it!

[madfloridian]

26. Not gloom and doom. You are trying to define me, and it is insulting.

I don't do anything, ever. I got that picture and others by the process of osmosis. I have pictures of the DEC BBQ and other activities which I just pulled out of nowhere.

I am far too lazy to lift a finger to do anything at all.

I can just tell you that unless the Democrats here start taking stands for something that central Florida will go Republican again. If people can not tell the difference they will do what the media tells them to do, and we do have great GOP media here.

[sandnsea]

28. Whatever

Keep telling whoever shows up at your meetings that it's all hopeless now that Howard Dean is gone. Then come back in November and say "told you so". Because that's all it seems to me you want to do anyway.

[madfloridian]

29. You did not get my point, and I won't worry about it anymore.

The point is that the local party will roll over and play dead again.

Whatever.

[sandnsea]

31. Education, health care, jobs, seniors, environment

Plenty of things your local party is getting involved in. You just choose to focus on TWO issues and use them as an excuse to bash your local party and convince yourself all would be heavenly if only Dean were in charge. And your local party could have the EXACT SAME PLATFORM with Howard Dean in charge and you'd be here talking about how glorious it is.

[madfloridian]

32. My point is that they are *ashamed* of their stance on womens' rights.

They are running from it and afraid to confront it. You are choosing to misinterpret my concern.

I think if people believe in something they should not be ashamed of it. Our party is pandering to the GOP in this area of the state. They should be ashamed of that.

Now, I will give you the last word. I am sorry you chose to call me names and talk about personality. I did not do that with you. So I now give you the last word.

[sandnsea]

33. Acc-en-tuate the positive

That's all I'm saying. Your daily posts about the demise of the Democratic Party because Howard Dean isn't in charge is likely to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[IndianaGreen]

5. And the morphing of the Democratic Party into a watered-down GOP

continues as the entrenched party establishment concedes more issues to the the GOP from the war in Iraq, to gay rights, to abortion rights.

[madfloridian]

9. Yes, you "got" it! We just keep on giving them power.

We keep ceding issues to them. After the visit yesterday from someone who is privy to the policy, unstated, unspoken......I realized that they have written off our area again.

[Zynx]

6. We would win a lot more votes if we left it out of our speeches.

Hell, I have a hard time stomaching our position on abortion. Probably 7% of the country would vote Democrat if it wasn't for abortion.

[madfloridian]

8. Not sure how you meant that.

I don't think Dean's position or any Democrat's is "pro-abortion".

No, we are not for it, we are for the woman's right to consult with her doctor without the government butting in.

I might have misread you on this. I am not pro-abortion, I am pro-choice.

Again, we are letting the media define it.

[sandnsea]

12. Now see

I don't agree with Zynx either. We should be strongly pro-choice, but I can see where in your area it might be wise to be selective in how you go about it. Maybe find some supportive day care centers and other places moms and women frequent and leave fliers there. Lots of ways to get the word out while allowing the candidates to focus on the issues that unite.

[Zynx]

16. I don't see why it should be a political issue at all.

It hurts our party badly. There a lot more people that vote against us because we support choice than those who vote for us because we do.

[sandnsea]

20. Where did you get that idea???

Most of the country supports abortion rights, even Republicans. In fact, we could well win this election on abortion alone, if women truly realize we could lose the Supreme Court and lose abortion rights. When women vote, Democrats win.

[Zynx]

23. You don't understand.

There are a huge number of voters, probably around 40%, that will not vote Democrat SOLELY because of abortion. Do you honestly believe that there are similar numbers on our side? I don't.

[sandnsea]

24. And 60% that will

Besides, I really think your 40% number is wrong. Did you know that less than 25% of Catholics agree that abortion is always wrong? CATHOLICS. Those who vote on abortion only are a much smaller voting bloc than you think. In fact, I sometimes wonder if we shouldn't just tell the truth. Republicans will never be able to pass legislation to outlaw abortion. The American people don't want that. Voting Republican for ONLY that reason is a wasted vote. Even if Bush got a Supreme Court to rule against abortion, there would be an outcry in this country and the people would demand legislation to allow it.

[Zynx]

25. No.

What I meant is that there are far more people that vote Republican because of that one issue than the other way around. Did Gore constantly hitting the pro-choice drum help us? I seriously doubt it. Clinton reduced the effect of the issue by saying "safe, legal, and rare" rather than defiantly getting up there and shouting "I support a woman's right to choose!". It's like gun control. Most people are in favor of gun control, just like choice, but it clearly does not help us at the polls. If you can cite any evidence that gun control has been a net winning issue for Democrats, I will be shocked. The same goes for abortion. It puts conservative southern states and plains states out of our reach.

[sandnsea]

30. This isn't 2000

Women see Bush's agenda now, particularly with abortion. They WILL come out to vote on this one issue. Wait and see.

[Zynx]

13. I never said anyone is "pro-abortion". If they were, that would be sick.

I am personally not one who honestly thinks that it is just an issue of a woman's control over her own body. I just can't say that I believe that with a straight face. I support Democrats regardless though because there are much bigger issues at stake and I don't support the repeal of Roe v. Wade.

However, we as Democrats would win a lot more votes if we stopped saying "I support a woman's right to choose.". That offends a lot of people.

[madfloridian]

18. You are kidding, right? You don't think a woman has a right to choose?

I am stunned you would call yourself a Dean Democrat.

I don't go around shouting, but I am not ashamed of believing in it.

I refuse to let the right wing define me. I think a candidate should be proud to speak up for it, not embarrassed.

[Zynx]

21. I honestly can't say that I do.

That's just not how I feel. I firmly believe that is another human being in that womb. Believe it or not, it was science, not religion, that actually pushed me away from being staunchly pro-choice.

I don't let the right-wing define me, I simply don't personally believe that a woman should ever get an abortion unless there is a medical reason for it.

[sandnsea]

27. Who decides the medical reason?

The doctor, not the woman, is that it? A woman on fertility pills ends up with 8 blastocysts. She thinks she should abort some of them, or all but one, in order to give that one the best chance at life. Her doctor thinks she shouldn't abort any of them based on religious or ethical reasons. Should he be able to make that decision for her? What if ALL doctors decide these cells are life and she can't find a doctor to abort any of them? What if she can't find a doctor to abort any of them because so many doctors don't have to learn to do abortions anymore? Did you know that? Med students are opting out of learning to do abortions. They can on religious or moral grounds, but most do it because it's one less thing to have to worry about.

We're quickly moving from abortion being a choice issue to abortion being a purely women's health issue. And I just don't see why women should have to turn over the decisions about their health to anybody.

[dawn]

35. Well, I really don't care what you think.

Your personal opinion is just that, your opinion.

Why don't you go volunteer in an orphanage, since you care about unwanted children so much?

[dawn]

34. Well, they'd lose mine.

Sorry, I'd go Green.

[JCMach1]

11. Welcome to your local Florida DEC

Yes, this can be a problem MF...

There are number of MECRATS who work the local DEC.

And yes, some of them are actually Repugs. I have seen this happen.

[madfloridian]

15. Oh, Jerald, you most certainly have seen it in action! Thanks.

Yes, they are actually many of them Republicans. I will never forget what they did to you.