I'm convinced most people have no idea about 2004 issues

[zulchzulu]

Having just done some travelling on the East coast (DE/PA/NYC/CT/VA), I ran into a number of people who are otherwise pretty intelligent who have had no real interest in the issues concerning Bush vs. Kerry or even care to see a difference between the two.

Granted it's early and most people are not political junkies like people who come to DU to talk about the issues.

Most people seem to get their news from CNN, Fox News, MSNBC but have little depth in what the differences between the candidates are. Most people can recite with glee the various cast of characters on the various reality shows and even go on all day about what team did well in the College basketball playoffs. But ask them on No Child Left Behind or the Bush environmental policies and you'd get glazed eyes and vacant shrugs.

Add that just about every time I would be in the company of these people, there would be a Bush commercial on the tube at some point.

I went to a party and started talking about the presidential race and most people just assumed Bush was going to win and why bother even talking about it. A few people who were gay even said that they like Bush more than Kerry, yet when asked why, had no idea on the reasons.

Younger women liked Bush but when asked if they were pro-life or pro-choice, they would practically scream that they were pro-choice. They would then not even understand that Bush was pro-life or had the opportunity to possibly put in up to three Supreme Court justices that would make a right-wing agenda slam dunk (they understood basketball analogies) through the Bush Supreme Court. Say to them that Roe v. Wade could go away and you'd get a Valley-Girl-type response "really?".

There were a few times when I'd run into Bush fans who would go on about NPR being "socialist" and Kerry being a "flip-flopper" or people saying things like "I like Bush because I want to keep my money" even though they probably made $50K or less. If they were asked about PNAC or the recent books skewering Bush, they would yelp back that those people were just "trying to sell books".

Fortunately (imho), not many of them ever voted or will vote in 2004. But all in all, it's pretty disheartening.

I'm not sure what it's going to take to get people to wake up.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. 9/11 turned off most folks' brains. :(

They only cast knee-jerk votes out of fear now.

[Cyrano]

2. American public

A journalist called H.L. Mencken famously remarked, "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people." Pretty much true. During the Nixon era, it took most people about three years to catch onto Watergate and then they turned against him. I think that this time around, Iraq will probably speed up the learning curve and hopefully by Nov. enough people would have caught on. If not, we're finished.

[balanced]

3. Democrats must learn how to dramatize the differences

between Kerry and Bush, between democrats and republicans. I remember when Ross Perot would get on television with his charts and explain the economy and other issues. I thought he was crazy. Who would watch some guy with a bunch of charts. But I was wrong.

The democrats have access to all kinds of PR expertise. The big issues are the war on terrorism/national security and jobs/economy/taxes. Get Clark as VP and then hit the airways and the road with clear differences in policies--foreign and domestic. Try the Clinton/Gore bus technique. Get the PR machine into gear.

[Cyrano]

7. It wasn't the charts

that Perot was holding up. It was his persona and his sound bites. Turned out he was a total flake, but he sure got attention for a while. I think what Kerry has to do NOW is pick a charismatic VP candidate and get him out there fast to fight back at every utterance coming from the right wing machine. I don't think Clark is the guy. Dean could have been, but he's too easy a target for the right wing. About the only one who comes close is John Edwards.

[mdguss]

10. Edwards won't make news:

It's the media favored/expected choice. Cleland or Landreiu would be a better--and more newsworthy pick.

[balanced]

15. The democrats surely can get the best advice money can buy

as regards the PR process. You said:

"I think what Kerry has to do NOW is pick a charismatic VP candidate and get him out there fast to fight back at every utterance coming from the right wing machine. I don't think Clark is the guy. Dean could have been, but he's too easy a target for the right wing. About the only one who comes close is John Edwards."

Although I think Clark is the guy, I wouldn't be adverse to Edwards. So I wouldn't argue with what you said.

[no name no slogan]

30. No it was the MONEY

The only reason Perot got the attention he did in 1992 and 1996 is because he could afford to buy ad space on the major networks.

Perot was not saying anything that was radically different than what many other people had been saying for years-- the only difference is that Perot had the millions of dollars to buy time on the airwaves to say it.

If Perot would have been broke, he would have been written off right away, no matter how much charisma he had-- just like other third-party and "outsider" candidates with ideas that challenge the status quo.

[Bill Todd]

12. With Kerry seemingly working hard to minimize those differences

that's going to be tough.

And terrorism/national security just aren't issues that Kerry can steal from Bush, regardless of how much he ought to be able to. So far, he doesn't even show any ability to neutralize them - and won't, as long as he sticks so close to Bush's positions.

The same is true for taxes: all Kerry can offer is that he won't roll back Bush's tax cuts on everyone. And as long as the economic numbers can be presented as at worst ambiguous, he's not going to make much headway there either.

This isn't simply ineptitude, it's got to be strategy: Kerry doesn't want to look very different. You and I may think that's nuts, but the evidence is clear: ask the DLC for an explanation.

- bill

[Kipepeo]

32. I agree that Kerry needs to set himself apart more

I don't think the winning strategy is to try to appeal to moderates....I think the key is setting himself apart from Bush completely.

About mass American ignorance: that's the way we're supposed to be. Otherwise we wouldn't buy anything. As long as they can keep us obsessed with sagging skin and carbs we are the perfect empty headed consumers.

fyi: There is a great article in the recent Bitch magazine (www.bitchmagazine.com) about Reality Shows and Advertising that makes my skin crawl.

[lovedems]

4. The republicans have mastered the one issue voters.

I have my idiotic dad and 2 brothers who will vote for * simply because Kerry will raise their taxes. Then, I have my in-laws (mother, father and 3 sister in laws) who will vote for the chimp simply because he is pro-life. There are a handful of one issue voters who will vote for the chimp against their own best interest because of one single issue.

It is quite sad to witness the dumbing down of our nation.

[mdguss]

5. They'll start paying attention in August/September:

Because of the flow of the primary (which was way too fast) everyone is expecting the presidential race to be decided now. It won't be. It'll be decided in early September to early October. It's just begun, and the fact that Joe Sixpack and his buddies on the north side of Pittsburgh haven't decided who to vote for yet doesn't really mean anything. Most people don't pay attention to politics; most regard it as a pain in the ass right up there with dirty dishes. They may pay attention and vote, but they're not going to get into it yet. Bush blew 50 million on negative ads this early. It'll hurt him if Joe Sixpack thinks he's running a negative campaign in September.

[sinkingfeeling]

6. The one issue voters are not a handful, but the majority...

read the Harper's Magazine article about the 'heartland' voters...desparately poor, unemployed, living in the 'rust belt', yet will vote for Bush. Americans have forgotten what the unions did for labor last century, what environmental laws did, what an industrial nation looks like, and when saving money instead of buying every piece of crap someone markets was a virtue. I have started making a list of the items I will be taking with me when I leave the US after Bush walks away with the election.

[lovedems]

9. It is pretty disheartening to say the least.

They vote against their own future and aren't smart enough to realize they are doing it. Dumbing down the populace is definately to the republicans advantage.

[Nay]

14. I agree, Sinking. That article hit the nail on the head. These

people are voting directly against their own interests, just for to say they voted for "God" or "family" or "freedom" or whatever. And they continue to go down the toilet and drag the rest of us with them. I can't count the number of times I have sat in our breakroom at work and listened to the repuke talking points come straight out of someone's mouth, word-for-word from Rush or Hannity. Honest to god, the other day I was talking with the one liberal there about the folly of the Iraq war, how the Saudis were the hijackers, etc., and one guy pipes up, "But Saddam was a bad man!" Others nodded in agreement. At that point, the other lib and I looked at each other and just shook our heads.

It will take severe pain and suffering for these people to wake up, as I have said all along. I do hope Kerry wins and I will be helping in his campaign, but I don't think it is a done deal. Unfortunately.

[JI7]

8. this is typical

i don't expect people as you describe to take the time to vote.

another problem is that some of these people don't see bush as being as extreme as he is. as long as their lives don't seem directly affected, they don't really care. it kind of reminds me of that britney spears interview with tucker carlson where she "supported" bush. but it wasn't really support as much as "whatever, i don't really care".

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Welcome to the real world

Most people don't follow politics as closely as you do.

They also don't decide who to vote for the way you do. Issues? Those certainly matter, especially if a candidate does something or advocates a policy which outrages them. But it will essentilly come down to who they like best. This is how Bush manages to squeek by in 2000. He was simply more likable than Al Gore.

[zulchzulu]

13. I suppose I might have woken up some people

Perhaps it's my personality and passion about politics, but as I see the responses from people here, I think back that perhaps bringing up the issues when it's not the usual conversation might at least get one or two people out of a dozen to start paying attention.

It needs to be a relentless effort.

[DaveSZ]

16. The Democrats have Hollywood

I don't understand why they don't get Steven Spielberg and all those guys to help them make commercials.

:(

[zulchzulu]

17. Could you imagine Spielberg getting into prez campaign ads...

Spielberg would probably be frustrated with the :30 second limitation.

It would be cool to do a split screen of a Kerry war reenactment like the opening scene on Saving Private Ryan and Bush's coke binge at some Bama strip bar where he's sticking money down some tramp's rack.

Spielberg would do a good job, methinks...

[Demoin04]

18. You do realize

It's sad I know, but the truth is most people will take what they heard from CNN, Fox, MSNBC, RNC website and think it's a hard based fact. It seems nobody has the patience for weeding out opinion or loosely based facts from the truth. They'd rather get it all at once and be done and be free to set their views accordingly. Karl Rove is betting the american population is too lazy/stupid to go see for themselves (example kerryvskerry). Once you actually dig into those "flip-flops" you realize that it's not as simple as the GOP makes it out to be. Without a boob sticking out I couldn't keep people interested long enough to educate them on how bills work, how amendments get made etc...

We need to refocus our energy.

[newyawker99]

26. Hi Demoin04!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[CharlieBakerAble]

19. Best to just say they differ from your view on the issues

Saying they have no idea when you think you do is elitist. Nobody likes an elitist.

[zulchzulu]

20. OK, here's an example of my "elitist" examination of the issues

I was at a party. There was a mix of people there; straight, gay, married, single...

The topic of conversation lulls between basketball to baseball to reality TV horseshit to....politics. OK, that's me.

I bring up the issue about the Election and what do people think. I ask some guy who is gay what he thinks about Bush. He says he likes him and wants to keep his money. I ask him how much he makes, all the while knowing that he makes no more that $50k as a waiter at some small Italian restaurant. He says he just wants his money and the Democrats always take it away. His long-term boyfriend agrees. I ask them about civil unions. They want them. I tell them that Kerry is for them and Bush is against them. They nod glass-eyed and walk away.

Later on, I ask a woman what she thinks about the women's rally coming up in DC (this was last week) and she knew about it and might go. I ask her what she thinks of Bush and she likes him. She hates Kerry. I ask why. She doesn't really know but her dad and brother hate him so she figures she hates him too. I ask her if she is pro-choice. She yells at me that she is pro-choice and was wondering why I would even ask a question like that to her. I tell her that bush is pro-life and is a position to get a very slanted Supreme Court in power that would last for 30 years and then Roe v. Wade could indeed go away. I tell her that Kerry has been pro-choice for over 20 years. She shrugs and wants to change the subject to I forget what. I walk away.

Get it? That's a sample of the type of stuff I was talking about.

Am I an elitist?

[CharlieBakerAble]

21. You and they are different

It's only elitist if one party claims the other has no clue when they just have different views.

[zulchzulu]

22. Elitist vs. Clueless

I guess it's a matter of what one person thinks vs. what one person doesn't give a shit about.

[CharlieBakerAble]

23. Exactly

And it works in reverse too!

[newyawker99]

27. Hi CharlieBakerAble

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[flaminbats]

24. a running mate like Sen. Lincoln or Gov. Sebelius sends the message..

and it would do this in a way that making speeches or legislation never will. Many Democrats still think that Mondale made a mistake in 84 by picking Ferraro as his running mate, but this decision alone probably prevented him from falling below the 40% mark.

If Bush is beatable, then this election will be close. This means the gender gap could be Kerry's margin of victory.

[serryjw]

25. OMG I Love this thread...TRY do this 12 hours a day!

By the time the election comes I should be certified for a padded cell. I fundraised for the DNC/DCCC for 2 years. For the last 9 months I have been out there 12 hours a day with state petitions and get out and vote drive. It give me a chance to make a few dollars while I spend 12 hours a day trying to explain all the issues to everyone.EVERYTHING you all have said is true.Let me summarize for you.I speak to about 1000 people a week!

20% WANT a Christian Theocracy!ROE is bad.Gays are sinners and Bushit is ready for Sainthood!
Yes, We a have the same 20% who are one issue voters...and you won't change their minds .....so don't bother to try....The best story about this is I do my campaign drives many days in front of our largest super market King soopers here in Denver. Two 85 year old men eat breakfast there quite frequently. One day I asked them whom they were going to vote for and they responded Bushit. I asked why and they said BECAUSE HE IS PRO-LIFE!I asked them at this point in their life isn't medicare and SS more important an issue.....and they said NO! They would never vote for someone who is pro-choice.They were prepared to give up medicare & SS if we could change the laws...GOD WOULD PROVIDE FoR THEM!
When I talk to someone whom has not decided and is confused about all that is going on......I ask.......DO YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH???? If they are not ready to hear....why bother. I had 30 year old male today say that Dick Clarke was lying and Rice a roni was telling the truth.....NOTHING i said would change his mind.
The only hope we have is to get the young kids to understand that this is the election of their lives and they will get drafted.
50% of the guys don't care! most of the young gals are dis-beleivers that they will not get drafted...MOST think they will leave the
country!
The most frightening for me is SO MANY young people are willing to give up the Bill of Rights. They have no problem with Partiots Act. Their responce is "if I'm not doing anything wrong why do I care if the government is in my apartment!

[Demoin04]

29. Your experiences should help turn new voters on

As much as you want to stick to the issues, tell them the stories of the old men, tell them about the 30 year old. Make young people mad enough that they realize that they HAVE to vote. That's how I'm here, I'm truthfully a moderate but with today's administration I feel left, way left, and that shouldn't be. I also work where rightist ideals and blind pro-bushians are the norm. It's more partisan than the government really.

Here's one I give to those "I'm sure glad bush was elected and not gore...." They tell me that gore wouldn't have made the decision to go after the taliban/al queda. I then ask them, "What do you think most people would've done in bush's situation?" They answer "The same thing bush did" I then ask them "Then why do you think for some odd reason that gore wouldn't..." "If everyone and their mom were willing to go kick some ass do you think gore would've done something different... "

Such bullshit, and I'm not a gore supporter either.

[fujiyama]

31. if I'm not doing anything wrong why do I care if the government is in my a

That's really creepy.

They used to say that in East Germany about the Statzi (the East German secret police).

[Monte Carlo]

28. In a nation where 90% of the pop. can't name their Representative...

... you can't really expect a huge amount of people to be really up-to-date and informed on the issues. It just doesn't work that way. Talk about PNAC and a right-wing agenda, and you might as well be speaking Latin.