Honestly, how does anyone know Obama doesn't believe some of what Wright is saying?

[Herman Munster]

Even if he doesn't believe it all, he takes it in. It's a viewpoint he looks at when making decisions.

And that will be how republicans will frame it to destroy him.

Obama's campaign isn't about his experience or accomplishments.

It's about his judgment.

Jeremiah Wright is going to be a big problem for Obama because it cuts at the whole core of his campaign.

Why has Obama had a 20 year friendship with Wright where he has referred to him as his spiritual mentor and advisor? This is not a rogue pastor saying racist things. This is someone who has had a deep impact on Obama's life. This was the person Obama says brought him to Christ.

He was the minister at Obama's marriage. He baptized his two daughters. He was the inspiration behind the title of one of his books and Obama praised him glowingly in passages in his books..

Why did Obama stay with the church after Wright gave Louis Farrakhan a lifetime achievement award?

http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/obama_wright_farrakhan/2008/01/14/64332.html

When Minister Farrakhan speaks, black America listens,” Wright said. “His depth on analysis when it comes to the racial ills of this nation is astounding and eye-opening. He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest.”

Hailing Farrakhan’s “integrity and honesty,” Wright said, “His love for Africa and African-American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change, and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose.”

Is it really believable that in the span of 20 years, he never heard Wright say these controversial statements? That doesn't pass the straight face test. Why didn't he leave the church earlier?

Why did he give that church $22,500 as recently as 2006? To me you are a fool if you give that kind of money to a church and not know what is going on during Sunday sermons.

In April 2007, Wright told the NY Times that he warned Obama that he may have to disassociate himself from him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all&oref=login&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Mr. Wright, who has long prided himself on criticizing the establishment, said he knew that he may not play well in Mr. Obama’s audition for the ultimate establishment job.

“If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me,” Mr. Wright said with a shrug. “I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.”

When Obama was set to announce his run for President back in January 2007, Obama had asked him to have a role in his announcement ceremony for President. But at the last minute, Obama changed his mind. He said Wright got kind of "rough" in his sermons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

After all, back in January, Mr. Obama had asked Mr. Wright if he would begin the event by delivering a public invocation.

But Mr. Wright said Mr. Obama called him the night before the Feb. 10 announcement and rescinded the invitation to give the invocation.

“Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack,” Mr. Wright said in an interview on Monday, recalling that he was at an interfaith conference at the time. “One of his members had talked him into uninviting me,” Mr. Wright said, referring to Mr. Obama’s campaign advisers.

According to the pastor, Mr. Obama then told him, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”

When you link Obama's preacher to Michelle Obama saying this is the first time she is proud of America, and Obama not putting his hand on his heart during the national anthem or wearing a flag pin, people will see a pattern. Obama had to have known Wright visited Muammar Gaddafi in Libya with Louis Farrakahan in 1984. He had to have known the church he was joining was deemed as radical.

People may say it's crazy and bullshit but let's just remember back to 4 years ago.

The republicans turned a war hero into a traitor to America. Remember the ad that destroyed John Kerry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phqOuEhg9yE

Wright's comments will make this and the Willie Horton ads that took out Dukakis look like nothing. And it's gone viral now. It's all over youtube and talk radio. It doesn't matter if the mainstream media ignores the story. Rush and Hannity and O'Reilly devoted their entire programs Thursday and Friday to this. The meme will be that Obama is un-american and his radical liberal views have been indoctrinated into his and his wife's mind for 20 years by his spiritual advisor Jeremiah Wright. He will be called dangerous to America.

And given the Elliot Spitzer incident where he in fact busted prostitution rings as attorney general while going on to use prostitution rings himself and hid his double life to everyone.

How can any of us know what Obama does or doesn't believe about America?

Politicians lie.

[anonymous171]

1. It's not going to be 2004. Attacks on Patriotism will only go so far.

The big issues will be things like the Economy and Iraq.

[JoFerret]

19. You think?

The war was raging in Iraq in 2004. The election was fought in Vietnam.

[shraby]

2. Give. me. a. break.

Quit beating a dead horse.

[eileen_d]

3. Your posts are informative

They are literally like watching GOP attack ad brainstorming sessions.

[alteredstate]

33. I know!

In an attempt to prove his twisted points, Hermie even provides links to Newsmax articles!

:)

[earthlover]

46. sad to say...there is really no difference between the repukes and what we do to our own

The only difference i see is that Democrats eating their own will only give the Republicans later more credibility if they try to make the same arguements.

Thanks herman from President Mccain...

[Drachasor]

4. Because when you examine Obama's books, speeches, legislative record, etc, it doesn't jive...

....with the anger that Wright so clearly was caught up in. Proposing he is lying about all this is basically saying he is some sort of Manchurian candidate, who is so skillful in hiding what he actually believes that it never shows up ANYWHERE in any statement that he makes.

That said, I am sure he understands and is sympathetic towards where Wright is coming from; but I believe that's how he tries to be about everyone.

[bluerum]

5. Give it a rest Herman.

[goclark]

6. How can we believe or not believe what we think is on

HC tax returns?

What about her Fellowship Religious Group?

What about her love of McCain?

HC lives in a glass house and we are waiting to find out her real story.

[DerekJ]

7. will you give it up already.

90% of the MSM is removing this story from its front pages already

[Upton]

8. Are you serious?

you actually have doubts about Obama's belief in America? This is getting old and sounding very right wing.

[jaysunb]

9. " And that will be how republicans will frame it to destroy him. "

And you're happily helping them along, eh? :evilfrown:

[loveangelc]

10. Hillary was involved with black nationalists and the black panther party in college

how are we to know she doesn't still believe in some of their views?

[LisaL]

12. Well, if she spend 20 years with a black panther party, I might

have had my doubts.

[wileedog]

11. You win

Obama is clearly a racist, who when elected will push legislation for reverse Jim Crow Laws, make whites sit at the back of the bus, create separate restrooms for "pale" people, and ensure that those uppity white folk have limited access to government.

Dumbass.

[Quixote1818]

14. Thank You. nt

[Mooney]

31. God bless you. n/t

[Quixote1818]

13. Unless Obama was there on a day where he said "God Dam America" then

they won't have anything concrete, short and catchy to attach him to.

I personally think that because Obama was running for President part of the time he was going to this church, he would have left at the first instance of something controversial. The fact that he didn't suggests that the Rev. Wright only rarely says such inflammatory stuff.

[muntrv]

15. A better question is why McSame doesn't distance himself from Hagee

and Parsley, 2 bigoted jerk offs.

[Eric J in MN]

16. Exactly which of Rev. Wright's beliefs...

...would cause Obama to be a bad president if he becomes president?

(assuming the two men share that belief)

[malik flavors]

17. Most progressives believe alot of what Wright said. Obama's 1/2 white so he's certainly not racist

if that's what you're asking.

[JoFerret]

23. You think black people can't be racist?

Wright is a deeply conservative preacher.

It's not (always) the ideas he espouses but the tone and the gratuitous cruelty.

[malik flavors]

47. Um, ofcourse they can, but it's less likely when they're mother is white. Duh.

And you'd be pretty foolish to think he's a racist, since there's nothing to support such an outrageous claim.

Yep, Obama is racist against his mother and his grandparents that raised him, and hell, that whole side of his family. Right?

[JoFerret]

18. I would assume he does

Some of them are fairly reasonable if rather cruelly and violently expressed.

He has certainly adopted some of the preachy tone - thankfully not the ranting - so that his pronouncements are made to sound as if they come from god himself.

[DJ13]

20. I how do we know you're not a republican operative?

Your posts dont tell us you're not, so.........

:shrug:

[otohara]

21. I Believe Wright's Anti-War Setiment

probably did have an effect on Obama. I believe Obama when he says since Wright comes from a generation of blacks who fought hard to obtain civil rights is part of who he is. Obama, does not harbor the anger, he never experienced it, and that might be because he's half white.

[BlackVelvet04]

22. His very presence in the church for 20 years shows he agrees....

and of course he knew what Wright was preaching. Wright is his personal mentor and has been for many years.

[wileedog]

29. Absolutely

Obama can't wait to get elected President and round all the Whitey's up into camps.

Maybe he'll ship all us white people back to Europe where we belong! YES HE WILL!


Do you understand how stupid you all sound?

[DerekJ]

37. LOL

:rofl:

[BlackVelvet04]

54. do you understand how stupid you guys sound

when you say that Obama doesn't agree with Wright? Of course he does....he chose the man as his personal mentor for 20 years.

[wileedog]

55. So then he's all for racism right?

He wants to put whitey down. Maybe pass legislation so we can't get cabs. I'm pretty sure he will forbid white folks from playing golf. For sure I better not ask a black girl out, I'll get pummeled by Obama's special police.

Asinine fear mongering and divisiveness. Obama clearly agrees no more with these views than the average Catholic with their child fondling priest. (apologies Catholics, just trying to make a point). Its you and the media that want to generalize a 20 year relationship into a 5 minute sound bite.

Moronic, obtuse and stupid.

[BlackVelvet04]

58. I didn't say anything about legislation, now did I?

Or special police?

People dont' ask someone they disagree with to be their personal mentor for 20 years. Now you can try and spin that any way you want but you just look idiotic.

[Mooney]

32. Because god knows everyone who attends Mass every Sunday of their adult lives

believes EVERYTHING they hear the priests say. That's why there are NO pro-choice Catholics in the world.

It's also why there are no Jews who have ever eaten bacon.

[BlackVelvet04]

53. Yep....

if the priest is also their personal mentor.

[frazzled]

34. Did Jimmy Carter's lifetime presence in a segregated, racist church in Plains, GA ...

mean he believed in segregation? No. He was the only one in that church who voted to allow black members. Everyone else voted for segregation. Yet Jimmy Carter did not leave that church. He taught Sunday School there. It took him until just a few years ago to finally leave the Southern Baptist Convention.

Your argument makes no sense.

[BlackVelvet04]

52. Wright was Obama's personal mentor.......

he KNEW what Wright was preaching and he agrees.

[journalist3072]

24. In Obama's defense on this one....

Even as an ardent, hardcore defender of Sen. Clinton's, I will come to Obama's defense on this one.

I do not believe congregants should be held responsible for what their pastor espouses from the pulpit.

You are not going to agree 100% of the time with what your pastor says. If you do, that's a problem, because it means more than likely you are following man instead of following the Bible.

I've always believed that one of the reasons it is so important to read the Bible for yourself, is so that you can know when your pastor is way off base, and you won't be sitting there saying yea and amen to everything.

As for the issue of whether Obama should have left his church--well, I think that's a question only he can answer. No pastor and no church is perfect, and I don't believe in just hopping from church to church. So the question then becomes: what types of imperfections in the church are you willing to tolerate? When is the point that you believe you need to find a new church home?

That's a very personal decision.

[eileen_d]

28. Well said!

If I could recommend a subthread, I'd rec this! :toast:

[Mooney]

35. Thank you for posting this.

That's a very fair-minded thing to say.

I'm an atheist, but the whole notion of judging the candidates based on things in their religious lives makes me very uncomfortable. I didn't even like it when it was happening to Mitt Romney.

[eileen_d]

51. kicking

:kick:

for this comment!

[Fredda Weinberg]

25. Fifteen minutes before Shabbos? Sounds like Black Hebrews

You should hear 'em on Flatbush Avenue ... not knowing I'm in their audience, shouting that they're the real lost tribes and all white Jews are devils. Great fun in my hometown - you can catch their program on public access.

[Mooney]

36. "Real Jews Are Black" was a classic show.

There's nothing like those BCAT production values.

[Eric J in MN]

40. "he was at an interfaith conference at the time"

Rev. Wright doesn't usually refer to Friday before sundown as before the start of Shabbos, as far as I know.

[bluestateguy]

26. Let's talk about health care, education, Iraq and the economy.

Any takers?

[Mooney]

27. Honestly, how does anyone know Obama DOES?

You don't. None of us do.

[tabatha]

30. You are a repub operative - trying to sway dem voters.

[thevoiceofreason]

38. Bullshit, Herman

99% of us believe what Wright is saying.

[jgraz]

39. Honestly, how does anyone know Herman Munster doesn't believe some of what David Duke is saying?

[gordianot]

41. We have murders and traitors in the White House now and they act on their belief.

George Bush is reported to have said the Constitution is only a piece of paper in my book that is "Un-American".

I have yet to meet any politician I am willing to trust.

[izzybeans]

42. I bet the Black Panthers have a button they push

on Inauguration Day, he will then go into Manchurian mode and speak of the white devil.

[LowerManhattanite]

61. ...And “Race War”...

...according to one particularly mentally unstrung long-timer around here.

[izzybeans]

62. The freepers are getting the racial division they've been looking for

and some of us are falling for it hook line and sinker.

[kwassa]

43. Herman, you do a good job of changing me to an Obama supporter

as I can't stand the bigoted smears coming from the anti-Obama camp.

[frazzled]

44. You look at his life and actions, in private and public

You ask yourself, could Barack Obama really believe in black separatism, as Pastor Wright has been presumed to advocate (heavy on the presumed)? Well, we know he has many white friends; he has worked and socialized in white society, he lived when young with his white family.

Does Barack Obama adhere to his church's idea about shunning the "black bourgeoisie"? Um, I don't think he would have bought a large, expensive home if he believed that. Note, however, he bought a large, expensive home, after he made a lot of money on his book, not in the hip or chi-chi neighborhoods of Chicago (the Gold Coast, Lincoln Park) but on the South Side, which has a mixture of university intellectuals and lower income black folk.

In the Illinois Legislature, did he do anything over the course of his eight-year career that would lead any of us to believe that he was unpatriotic, radical, white-hating, or any of the other ridiculous things that have been attributed to Pastor Wright? Believe me, the papers here would tell you. The voters would tell you.

As an instructor at the University of Chicago Law School on constitutional law, did any of his students detect a disdain for our Constitution or our country?

You'd have to believe he is the Manchurian candidate of all Manchurian candidates if you think he could be "living amongst us" these last twenty years secretly plotting a nefarious anti-American, anti-white agenda.

Sorry, this is nuts. WYSIWYG: Look at what this man has done, and therein you will see what he believes.

[democrattotheend]

45. Because it doesn't make sense that he would share those views

]As I wrote in my http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/15/145016/095/583/477409">blog post this morning, I don't for one second believe Barack Obama shares the anger or resentment towards whites that is evident in his pastor's statements. He has no reason to. He may have struggled with his racial identity growing up, but his life story is an American success story, the "skinny kid with the funny name" who has gone from a rocky childhood to a serious contender for president of the United States. His father grew up poor in Kenya and was able to come to the United States and get an education due to the generousity of the United States government. That is the story Obama told when I went to see him speak at American University last month, and everything I have heard him say, as well as what he wrote in his books, conveys nothing but pride and gratitude for this country.

I think it's possible Michelle might share some of those views, since she had a more traditional upbringing in inner city Chicago. But she is not running for president.

[jackson_dem]

48. "hope". The fact is we can't read Obama's mind. We can only look at his actions

As another poster said, part of being everything to everyone is that everyone "knows" what you "really" think.

[BlueJac]

49. Excuse me..........

You must be blind, this is a free speech country and people cna say what they want. You can agree or disagree. That is the real question. You must disagree like Obama!

[BlueJac]

50. I'm sorry.........

I didn't look to see you were Herman Munster. Now that I have seen that......Let's all do the "monster mash"... Hillary will love it. Thanks Herman.

[Armstead]

56. Careful, or Fox News will sue you for copywrite infringement

[JoFerret]

57. I assume he does

And most of it is just fine. But the tone and the cruelty and the off the wall stuff is crazy.

[sueragingroz]

59. Apparently they all have you on iggy now Herman..

But if that was true, there would be crickets on this thread ;)

[milkyway]

60. How do we know you're really Herman Munster?