Obama: Politics & Religion - Never a good mix

[GoldieAZ49]

I started here in January as an enthusiastic Obama supporter. I saw an opportunity for a new direction and believed this man could be that leader.

I donated to his campaign, talked to my mom and sister and got them interested, went to hear Michelle speak the day before Super Tuesday, we voted for him. Seeing the Kennedy endorsements was a real high.

As some of the negatives started coming out I had questions, and was slammed down as a Hillbot here. So I did some reading, and something about Michelle's pitch didn't set right with me. Then the cult atmosphere set in and that was a major turn off. I thought it was just here, but no, it was IRL too. The press covered it, and Obama started it, feed it, milked it.

Then the race card was played. No, not just a card, it seemed it was the whole deck, and the only deck. Any question or criticism was labeled as coming from a racist. Just look the other way and Obama will save the day. Another major turn off.

NAFTA and Canada, when his aid talked to their representative during the Ohio primary it was enough. Poor Judgment, bad forum. Political rhetoric, he is just another politician.
The enthusiasm was gone.

When I heard Wright preaching in his church, all the things we have all now heard ad nauseum I was angry.

This is the man that 'inspired' Barack for 20 years? Transcending race, religion and politics? Ending divisiveness? I don't believe it.

Now he says he didn't know, was never in the pew when this kind of rhetoric was used. He would have left the church during those 20 years had he known, I don't believe it.


I went back to the articles I have read, but had not followed the right story line through them, it was there, I just did know what I should have been looking for.
I am sure there is more, and the press will do a far better job of it, but reading these in chronological order leads be to believe this has been contrived and marketed on an advertising level second to none! And it had to be, after all, he is trying to sell more than half of America to make a purchase all on the same day. No easy feat.

Fortunately America is getting a chance to experience buyers remorse before the final payment is made.

I have added the emphases in bold

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/religion/chi-070121-relig_wright,1,271630.story?ctrack=1&cset=true&page=2&coll=chi-religion-topheadlines

January 21, 2007

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.

...

Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves.

Last fall, Obama approached Wright to broach the possibility of running for president. Wright cautioned Obama not to let politics change him, but he also encouraged Obama, win or lose.

So Wright is going to be Obama's advisor as POTUS, or he is suddenly going to dump him once he gets elected?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/us/politics/06obama.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

March 6 2007

Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., senior pastor of the popular Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago and spiritual mentor to Senator Barack Obama, thought he knew what he would be doing on Feb. 10, the day of Senator Obama’s presidential announcement.
After all, back in January, Mr. Obama had asked Mr. Wright if he would begin the event by delivering a public invocation.
But Mr. Wright said Mr. Obama called him the night before the Feb. 10 announcement and rescinded the invitation to give the invocation.
“Fifteen minutes before Shabbos I get a call from Barack,” Mr. Wright said in an interview on Monday, recalling that he was at an interfaith conference at the time. “One of his members had talked him into uninviting me,” Mr. Wright said, referring to Mr. Obama’s campaign advisers.

Some black leaders are questioning Mr. Obama’s decision to distance his campaign from Mr. Wright because of the campaign’s apparent fear of criticism over Mr. Wright’s teachings, which some say are overly Afrocentric to the point of excluding whites.
Bill Burton, a spokesman for the Obama campaign, said the campaign disinvited Mr. Wright because it did not want the church to face negative attention. Mr. Wright did however, attend the announcement and prayed with Mr. Obama beforehand.
“Senator Obama is proud of his pastor and his church, but because of the type of attention it was receiving on blogs and conservative talk shows, he decided to avoid having statements and beliefs being used out of context and forcing the entire church to defend itself,” Mr. Burton said.

So he knew his church affiliation would be a problem a year ago, and disrespected his pastor publicly but still used him privately. Great display of honesty and character...NOT!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?_r=4&pagewanted=all&oref=login&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

April 30 2007

Services at Trinity were a weekly master class in how to move an audience. When Mr. Obama arrived at Harvard Law School later that year, where he fortified himself with recordings of Mr. Wright’s sermons, he was delivering stirring speeches as a student leader in the classic oratorical style of the black church.
But he developed a tone very different from his pastor’s. In contrast with Mr. Wright — the kind of speaker who could make a grocery list sound like a jeremiad — Mr. Obama speaks with cool intellect and on-the-one-hand reasoning. He tends to emphasize the reasonableness of all people; Mr. Wright rallies his parishioners against oppressors.
While Mr. Obama stated his opposition to the Iraq war in conventional terms, Mr. Wright issued a “War on Iraq I.Q. Test,” with questions like, “Which country do you think poses the greatest threat to global peace: Iraq or the U.S.?”

Snip

In March, Mr. Wright said in an interview that his family and some close associates were angry about the canceled address, for which they blamed Obama campaign advisers but that the situation was “not irreparable,” adding, “Several things need to happen to fix it.”
Asked if he and Mr. Wright had patched up their differences, Mr. Obama said: “Those are conversations between me and my pastor.”
Mr. Wright, who has long prided himself on criticizing the establishment, said he knew that he may not play well in Mr. Obama’s audition for the ultimate establishment job.
“If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me,” Mr. Wright said with a shrug. “I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.”

Wow, Barack has been practicing his performance since Harvard, with recordings from Wright. Adapting the cool tone to reach mainstream America instead of just the Afrocentric congregation. But he didn't know of Wright's anti American rhetoric? Now on the judgement of going to war in Iraq that Obama takes credit for, it was really Wright's judgement, just delivered with that 'cool intellect and on-the-one-hand reasoning'. He is going to NEED Wright as his adviser.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

March 13, 2008

In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial." He said Rev. Wright "is like an old uncle who says things I don't always agree with," telling a Jewish group that everyone has someone like that in their family.

Really? After Wright told you back in the 80's it would be a problem, and hiding him and the church when you announced you were running, now you don't think it is 'actually particularly controversial'? What happened to the great judgement? After the tapes of his 'sermons' come out you say, well seeing those would be a shock. Gee, ya think?

Oh are they are just picking on you with divisive politics of old? I don't think so. I think your covers were pulled and you can't call racism on anyone, not with Wright's videos out there blaming and damning whites and our country. Comparing your poor black upbringing to some black jesus, now we know where the messiah line came from. By the way, I wish we had been poor enough to afford private schools and Ivy League educations in my family!

Wright's video does put Michelle's word in context, she didn't have the years of practice and politics of Barack.

Now we know why she has never been proud of her country until Barack started running.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/10/080310fa_fact_collins?currentPage=all

March 10, 2008

But her pride visibly chafes at being asked to subsume her personality, to make herself seem duller and less independent than she is, even in the service of getting her husband elected President of the United States.

...
Obama begins with a broad assessment of life in America in 2008, and life is not good: we’re a divided country, we’re a country that is “just downright mean,” we are “guided by fear,” we’re a nation of cynics, sloths, and complacents.

…
“The life that I’m talking about that most people are living has gotten progressively worse since I was a little girl. . . . So if you want to pretend like there was some point over the last couple of decades when your lives were easy, I want to meet you!”

…
The self-assurance that colors Obama’s assumption that her personal feelings are some bellwether of American achievement is also palpable in her forceful declarations that her husband is the only person who can solve the country’s problems. “I tell people I am married to the answer,” she said, in a speech in Harlem. “The man . . . who I am willing to sacrifice,” she called her husband, in Iowa. In November, on MSNBC: “Black voters will wake up and get it.” There is a hectoring, buy-one-while-supplies-last quality to Obama’s frequent admonitions that Americans will have only one chance to elect her husband President.

Someone who has spent a good portion of her life gaining purchase has suddenly been asked to sell something, and she seems to find it slightly beneath her.

Well yes we did think the 90's were easier, we enjoyed the peace and prosperity, sorry you missed it Michelle, where you at your Ivy League school and to busy to notice?

The only cynic I see her is Michelle and her pastor, how sad to think so little of a country that has given you so much opportunity. She is not married to the only person who can solve our problems, how arrogant. She need not sell me on her husband, after all it is 'beneath her' to try.

Now I know what didn't set right with me when I heard her speak here.

Michelle’s stump speech:
That we have to compromise and sacrifice for one another in order to get things done. That is why I am here, because Barack Obama is the only person in this who understands that. That before we can work on the problems, we have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation.

My soul is just fine without any fixing from Michelle, Barack or Reverend Wright, and so is Americas. We do not need to elect a Pastor in Chief.

We now know that Wright is the man behind the curtain, but we aren't in Kansas anymore.

No Sale Here. For all the slick marketing and advertising you have a defective product.

To all the Hillary supporters, I am sorry for any and all critical remarks I have made about her. While I have never been a fan of the Clintons I am grateful she has withstood all and stayed in the fight, we wouldn't have a choice if she hadn't, and only a few states are left to make the difference.



No to the Pastor in Chief

[LadyVT]

1. Thank you for this post, especially for

"Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves." I had read that earlier today on newsmaxx.

[theredpen]

3. Man, I haven't seen people recommend sending NewsMax links to the "MSM"

Since I stopped reading Free Republic regularly. :wow:

[GoldieAZ49]

5. the article isn't from NewsMax, she said she had read it there

try reading the post and the links

[chascarrillo]

53. And they were reading NewsMax ... why?

[GoldieAZ49]

57. I don't know, ask the person that was reading it there

I read and quoted the NYT, that is the source sited

[live love laugh]

138. From Newsmax to the New York Times...welcome to journalism in the 21st century. n/t

[formernaderite]

74. up until today I never heard of newmax

in fact a lot of these right wing sites, I've never heard of...however, in light of the competition Obama will likely receive in the GE...isn't it wise to delve into what is being published there? I too, am bothered by the religion aspect of all of this...I voted for Obama as a second choice, since Edwards was no longer in the race. Whatever info is now being dug up will be used after he wins the nomination... we have a duty to be prepared for what will come.

[rodeodance]

83. Lots of Obamafans putting up RW sites-quoting hannity, rush as "Evidence"--look

at your own selves in the mirror first!

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

133. thing is, the right wingers are pushing "dittoheads" to vote for Hillary

and a big time right winger, Rupert Murdock raised money for Hillary.

What favors will she do for him?

[theredpen]

72. The post was editted after I responded

[GoldieAZ49]

87. the OP was edited to ad the photo, not the links nt

[theredpen]

89. The post I was responding to was edited -- I wasn't referring to the OP

Sorry for the confusion.

[GoldieAZ49]

91. Sorry, my bad nt

[NBachers]

165. Hierographics

I gotta give you credit for your hierographics.

[GoldieAZ49]

4. Thank you

I have kept a copy and will email it all over, just in case, although I sincerely hope they are all over it, since he gave them somewhat of a challenge.

[SunsetDreams]

9. Are you sure you want to do that?

Because I will copy this post, and since you are a Hillary Supporter, it will reflect on Hillary

Do you really want to do that to her?

Geez even I don't dislike her that much

Right wing strikes again

GoldieAZ49 (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-16-08 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thank you
I have kept a copy and will email it all over, just in case, although I sincerely hope they are all over it, since he gave them somewhat of a challenge

[Window]

29. LOL!

[angie_love]

12. You go from supporting Obama to wanting to hurt him, pardon me if I don't believe you were ever an

Obama supporter. Either that or you're very young and naive.

[GoldieAZ49]

17. If the media doesn't have access to their own articles

then they are a bigger problem then any of us ever thought.

All the articles sited are available to anyone online.


Obama has hurt himself, I am not that important or powerful, but thanks!

[SunsetDreams]

21. that's right

they do have sources, they are examining all of these

If Fox had it, they damn sure would be reporting it. They have nothing!

[JoFerret]

40. Change. You believe in change right?

Sometimes people change in their views. I have. My view of Obama was not at all negative a year ago.

Now i have serious reservations in a number of key areas.
And one thing that has played a (very) small part in my changing has been the pro-Obama folk on DU.

[Voice for Peace]

119. Watch this speech from 2006 before you make your final judgement call

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/as-this-video-shows-obamas-pat.php

Obama talks about the relationship between religion and politics.

[theredpen]

2. "Wright is the man behind the curtain"

Thanks for putting a punch-line at the end of your post. I never know whether these collections of right-wing talking points are serious or not.

Rev. Wright is now the black Karl Rove? :rofl:

[JoFerret]

41. It's possible. Given his choice - Who would Obama

....like to see swear him in at the inauguration?

It's can't be Wright now (can it?) But who would he choose if these views had not emerged into the refreshing light of day and disinfecting sunlight?

[theredpen]

69. I hope he does choose Wright

"Refreshing view of sunlight"? What views of Wrights are wrong? The are impolitic because they scare white people and they express some rather unpleasant truths about the USA in harsh terms. That's all.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. As long as he does not pick

McClurkin or Caldwell. My fear for months now has been that inauguration would be another platform for the Ex-gay branch of the Fundy movement to grab some legitimacy from Obama again. He has been asked and refuses to say they will not be invited to speak. I'd be fine with Wright myself, he's an old radical like me. And he stands with my people as I do with his. McClurkin and Caldwell and the restof the Fundies are a huge issue for me, and in general there is way too much religion and dogma in this election cycle. Preachers are in general poison to politics.
I do think that if Obama had swiftly apologized for the sermonizing against gays by McClurkin and said it would happen no more, instead of calling homophobes 'good decent and moral people' and saying he would never stop listening to their prejudice, he might have more allies in this round, and more of a righteous leg to stand upon. He allowed for and then defended gay baiting. That was never properly addressed, and now the preacher thing is back again. He should have seperated his Church and State lives clearly and fully when McClurkin bashed good Democrats. Know your friends. Right is always right, and bigotry and baiting are always wrong. Always. Winking and nodding about prejudice is not acceptable.

No religious bigots at inauguration. No bashing segments of the population at our celebrations and cermonies. That is something that a Democrat should not have to be asked about. This baiting is a betrayal of our deepest principles. Obama dealt the dirty card last fall, and it still sits there unexplained. Will I be called cursed at his inaugural? Like I was on his campaign? Why the hell should I have to worry about that, this is not the GOP. No baiting on the stage.

[rodeodance]

84. "Preachers are in general poison to politics."--This was the point of the OP. yes

[Voice for Peace]

120. This is an outstanding speech, worth the time to watch.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/as-this-video-shows-obamas-pat.php

talks about the relationship between religion and politics.

[earthlover]

132. Don't show your ignorance of history....the Supreme Court Justice swears him in

[Eric J in MN]

6. Exactly what do you think Obama would do as president...

...which would be so bad?

[JoFerret]

44. not much

and that is the problem.

There is too much to do to unravel the fiascoes of Bush to have someone in the WH without a clear sense of what to do and the ability to do it.

He has no record of accomplishment, his judgment is flawed, he can't be trusted and who knows which of his companions he will place in prominent positions. Some of them are very divisive and incompetent figures. I would be happy to see Tom Daschle , however.

[Omega3]

111. can you honestly say he would appoint liberal Judges to the USSC as POTUS? there is nothing in his

backround to suggest that, in fact, just the opposite. Look at the ppl he surounds himself with re: gay rights, look at his voting record on abortion. I fear he's appoint centrists in the mold of John McCain actually.

[Eric J in MN]

122. I believe that Obama's Supreme Court nominees would be...

...about as liberal as Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer.

Regarding Obama voting "Present" on abortion issues in the Illinois legislature, that was part of a strategy which an abortion rights group approved of.

[eggman67]

166. Well...

...he was ready to vote for Roberts until he was told it would be politically damaging...

[rodeodance]

118. very little, as he would be appeasing everyone.

[Pushed To The Left]

7. Don't let the right wing "Hannitize" you! n/t

[angie_love]

25. Hannity would be proud of her.

[SunsetDreams]

8. ....

I've seen you trashing Barack since before the Wright thing, to be clear.


I fail to see your reasoning

[GoldieAZ49]

I said after NAFTA and the Ohio primary

That was in February you joined here March 9th so no surprise there.

I also stated I have never been a Hillary fan, however there are no other candidates left. I doubt the DNC would consider a do over for the whole primary, FL and MI are causing them enough grief.

[SunsetDreams]

13. I have been reading LOL

Nafta is a Lie, maybe you should check the latest Cananadian Government statement

It was someone from Hillary's campaign that contacted them and told them to not pay attention and take it with a grain of salt

The Canadian government was pissed so they got to the source.

The DNC offered a do-over, they turned it down, due to money.

Maybe you haven't been a Hillary fan, all I've seen is you trashing Barack on here, so I just assumed since Hillary was the only other candiate

Geez

[woolldog]

15. And Goolsbee met with the Canadians on Feb 9th,

long before the Ohio primary and long before Nafta was ever an issue. And the meeting was at the Canadian's request (to ingratiate themselves with the Obama camp) at the consulate in Chicago.

[angie_love]

20. why bother? Obviously the OP doesn't concern herself with facts.

or she would've known that NAFTA-gate was debunked awhile ago.

[SunsetDreams]

22. no kidding

[woolldog]

24. Just wanted to set the record straight.

in case anyone reading along silently believed what she said about that.

[GoldieAZ49]

116. The story broke in Canada Feb 27th

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080227/dems_nafta_080227/20080227?hub=TopStories

It took until Feb 29th through March 3rd for the US press to run it fully (ie 24/7)

Ohio was March 4th

I posted the rebuttal that it was false, and then it came back with Goolsbee named.

Perception is everything, multiple denials as more info proves the last denial was wrong leads to a lack of trust.

The Wright/Obama Political/Religious adviser goes to trust, character, judgement.

[woolldog]

157. Right.

But the memo makes clear that the meeting took place on Feb 9th, long before the Ohio primary and long before NAFTA became an issue.

[GoldieAZ49]

161. NAFTA has been an issue in OH for years

It was a hot topic for debate in the OH primary, less than a month before the debate Obama economic adviser tells Canada the negative talk about NAFTA would just be campaign rehtoric. That it took 3 weeks from the time he had that meeting to the primary could have had an affect.

Again, the actually story broke at the time of the primary.

[woolldog]

162. THATS WHEN THE STORY BROKE

It's not when the incident took place. And that's not what Goolsbee said even if you accept the accuracy of the memo, which has been disputed. The meeting took place almost a full month (Feb 9) before the Ohio primary (which was March 4) and right before the Wisonsin primary, long before NAFTA became an issue.

What is so hard to understand about that? And why are you ignoring that the Canadians said that Clinton was the one who contacted them, not Obama?

Go ahead and support your candidate. But you don't need to lie and distort the facts about the other candidate in order to do so.

[unapatriciated]

160. do you have a statement from the Canadian Government more recent than this?

Hillary Clinton hasn't offered assurances on NAFTA, Canada says

The prime minister denies Canadian media reports that her team had called to say that her campaign criticisms should be taken 'with a grain of salt.'
From the Associated Press
March 8, 2008

TORONTO -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper, whose government was already tangled in a controversy over a memo on Barack Obama's NAFTA position, denied Friday that Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign had delivered back-channel assurances to Canadian officials that her criticisms of NAFTA should be taken "with a grain of salt."

The Canadian Press news agency reported Wednesday that Harper's chief of staff, Ian Brodie, last week said someone in Clinton's campaign had called to tell Canada "not to worry" about her campaign comments about reopening the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Asked about it Thursday, Harper spokeswoman Sandra Buckler said in an e-mail to the Associated Press: "Ian Brodie is alleged to have made an offhand comment about a rumor to a reporter. He does not recall saying it."

Asked about it again Friday, Buckler said Canadian officials did not discuss NAFTA with the New York senator's campaign.

"The answer is no, they did not," Buckler said.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-nafta8mar08,1,4672705.story


No matter who you support you when you repeat lies you add to the division of the party. Something the RW counts on.
http://www.campusprogress.org/tools/282/

"Buchanan’s strategies were Rove-esque before Karl Rove had even graduated from high school. Buchanan and his top aide recommended staging counterfeit attacks by one Democrat on another, arranging demonstrations and spreading rumors to bring down the opposition, fouling up scheduled events, all the while being careful not to arouse the suspicions of authorities. Nixon was elected in 1968, and Buchanan went with him, becoming a White House speechwriter and advisor."

"Keep an eye out for Buchanan ’08. He’s still a bundle of anger, outrage, aggression, intolerance, and he’s not done with America yet."

Buchanan works for.... wait a minuet, don't tell me, oh yeah Faux Snooze.

As Fat Mike would say....
"If you are not part of the solution than you are the problem"

[emilyg]

10. K

[angie_love]

11. Wow what a fairweather Obama supporter you are!

People like you seriously make me sick. You hear things you don't like, NOT EVEN ABOUT OBAMA but about his pastor for crying out loud, and thats enough to make you run. As Obama has said, judge him for what HES said and done, not anyone else. Its your fault that you built Obama up to be this saint, perfect human being. But most of us Obama supporters never built him up to be perfect, always knew he was human and flawed, but yet we still believe hes the most decent person running in this race and thats why we support him. We don't just give up on him when the going gets tough. Its so weak.

People like you are so laughable. Hannity says Obama should drop out of the race and give up his senate seat based on what his fucking pastor said, meanwhile McCain cheated on his first wife when she became crippled, says he hates "gooks", calls Chelsea Clinton "ugly" and yet somehow hed make a better president? God, this country is so fucking hypocritical its disturbing.

[GoldieAZ49]

14. The quotes I provided are of Obama's, not his pastors

I never built him up as a saint, he did. I owe him nothing and can change my mind.

Obama has a stock line which seems to play straight into the notion that he is an instrument of the divine. To a number of audiences, he has declared: "My job is be so persuasive that if there's anybody left out there who is still not sure whether they will vote, or is still not clear who they will vote for, that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down on you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realise that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama."

To be fair to Obama, this is said in a manner which just leaves open the idea that he is not being entirely serious. Yet I don't believe that those applauding this riff see it as elevated irony – and it is slightly creepy even as a joke. Perhaps it isn't a joke at all, but completely sincere: Obama's speeches are studded with religious rhetoric. For example, last October he told an audience of 4,000 that he hoped to be "an instrument of God" and that "I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth".


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-obama-must-beware-of-turning-into-a-cult-787298.html




If it was a Hillary supporter that changed to Obama you would sing a different song.

[angie_love]

16. it was a fucking joke, grow up! I really don't care who you vote for

but the reasons you stated are so incredibly stupid that I dont' even know why i'm wasting my time writing to you. you just sound very young and naive.

[SunsetDreams]

18. Oh good grief...

who's side are you really on?

A Democrat wanting to destroy a Democrat candidate, wow, just wow

You're reading way, way too much into those statements.

If there was really something to it, don't you think that they would have nailed him with it, when they were doing the "high-tech lynching" on Fox?

They had nothing and they know it.

They took 5 minutes of clips and tried to say it was 20 years worth of hate, BS

Sermons like this one is more like what Barack heard at Trinity all those years

http://www.preachingtoday.com/sermons/sermons/audacityofhope.html

[Martin Eden]

145. That's how I see it too.

Reading way, way too much into those statements.

[woolldog]

19. yup, so this is now part of some elaborate conspiracy that Obama

hatched while he was still at Harvard! :eyes:

It's scary how some people think isn't it?

[FrenchieCat]

26. The problem is that she probably did support Obama in a

cultlike manner....not based on anythings substantial. The fact that Cult was brought into the discussion may have made her feel guilty about it. We do have those kind of supporters for all of the candidates. That's bound to happen at times.

He was maybe exciting at first, almost kind of daring.....but only if he remained as perfect as what she imagined. Problem is when you suspect someone's wife, and don't believe anything the candidate says about anything, at some point its time to move on; I agree with that.

This is not the kind of supporter who would organize at the grassroots level, because there is no real committment present, period.

I think that she will be very happy with Hillary or McCain instead. Probably more her cup of tea anyways.

cause supporting War voting folks are always the answer when in doubt.

------------------
It's twisted, but if it works, This is America afterall.

[angie_love]

27. Frenchie you said it way more eloquently than I did.

I believe someone else summed it up well too...whats more important? thousands of innocent ppl dead b/c of a stupid war or a crazy pastor? I'd take the latter any day of the week, and thats the type of judgement I want in a president. A crazy pastor is forgivable, a war that killed thousands of innocent lives is not.

[ampad]

42. Thank you

Every fucking time I think I have them all on ignore one of them fucking proves me wrong. I hate right wing shit and it seems quite a few Hillary supporters love that trash these days. Off to add to my ignore list, geesh

[loveangelc]

23. whatever, I guess you'll vote for McCain when Obama gets the nomination too right?

[JohnnyLib2]

28. Bold OP, thanks.

I woke up overnight and might be dreaming, will check later.

Otherwise--thanks for speaking your piece, Goldie. It's clear that you are now being shunned and shamed, but are not ashamed.

Hold your head high; this really is an example of good old American
independence. :kick:

[anamnua]

30. Congratulations. It takes a big man/woman to admit he/she was

wrong.

[cooolandrew]

31. Just reminder Barack is half WHITE and entitled to the same disapporval as you..

Any other view is clearly bigotry, remember what the Republican party do. Although it is getting hard to tell seriously.

[cooolandrew]

32. Tracy Morgan says it best...

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=4bc93c66-a596-4832-8d1b-77a5552b2553
.
.
.
.

[GoldieAZ49]

63. Funny, thank you - good to have a laugh at this primary

because it is a joke

[boston bean]

35. Then why did he sit in a church that hates half of him and his mother and his beloved grand parents.

[chascarrillo]

54. Here's a thought: Maybe the church doesn't hate half of him and his mother and his grandparents.

Just a frickin' thought.

[GoldieAZ49]

65. Really? They were rich white folks that sent Obama to private and Ivy League schools

so how does Wright differentiate between which rich white folks are the problem and which are not?

Is there a dollar amount? What is the threshold?

[chascarrillo]

78. How do Democrats differentiate between which rich white folks are the problem and those who are not?

And how do you? How do you differentiate between, say, Dick Cheney and Bill Clinton?

[GoldieAZ49]

168. By their vote apparently

I don't see much difference, they are on a much different playing field than most Americans

But how is that relevant to Wrights rant about rich white people? Did he make party affiliation distinctions?

[NDambi]

67. lol

[JuneFiasco]

37. Oh,

so now you are getting racial?

[shayes51]

33. It seems very simple to me:

If BO was not in church when the GD America statements were made and neither he nor his wife even heard about them from other chuch members, then these kinds of statements were so commonplace that no one paid much attention to them. I'd say Obama has a credibility problem here.

[boston bean]

34. Goldie, that was really good.

I am not black. I wish someone could tell me if this happens in all black churches, from the responses from his supporters on DU you would think they are. But something tells me that is not true.

[GoldieAZ49]

48. No it is not common in all black churches

If Obama didn't know in 1985 that the church was radical within the black community, Wright flat out told him so, according to Obama.

From the Chicago Trib link in the OP:

In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts in vivid detail his first meeting with Wright in 1985. The pastor warned the community activist that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.


In addition the various cable news channels have asked that same question to the black commentators they have had on and ALL of them have said no way is this preached in their churches and if they heard about either first hand or from fellow members that it had been they would have left that church.

Thank you MassDemm

[NDambi]

68. I'm black and you'd be surprised what is said in black churches about

America, prejudice, racism, poverty, religion and the great racial divide!
Especially baptist ones.

[ekwhite]

155. Wasn't Rev. Wright a Baptist Preacher once?

That would explain his hellfire and damnation style. His preaching is apparently so good that other preachers buy his tapes to learn from them.

[ekwhite]

154. Oh, you aren't black?

I never would have known :sarcasm:

[JuneFiasco]

36. So?

I don't see the relevance.

[Dinger]

38. A Simple K & R From Dinger (nt)

[JoFerret]

39. GREAT post. Thank-you

I share some of that journey and much of that unease.

[UALRBSofL]

47. K/R

[durrrty libby]

43. Fabulous post. Bravo Well Done

I saw Michelle Obama speak and she was a real turn off.

To say she was rude and obnoxious is putting it mildly

[JoFerret]

135. She does not aim to please it seems

Fine by me.

[BlackVelvet04]

45. thank you for your post.....

it's never easy to admit you have changed your mind. I appreciate your honesty and candor and I'm sorry you are having to take the abuse demonstrated in this thread.

[golddigger]

46. A big K&R...Great post. And I will also say "No to the Pastor in Chief."

[JoFerret]

136. Get religion OUT of politcis

The very worst thing about Obama is the religion and religious overtones.


Apart from that he is OK as a mor democrat with a gift of the gab.

[thetaoofterri]

49. Thank you for this post.

Considering the climate here, you are much braver than I.

[zabet]

50. A BIG k and r!!!!

"No to the Pastor in Chief"

:applause:

[NastyRiffraff]

51. Thanks for this post, Goldie

You're finding out quickly how difficult it is to criticize Obama in any way on these boards. This was a courageous post. Your journey is somewhat like mine, although mine was made earlier. I was uneasy with Obama from the beginning, although I actually wanted to like him. But the "preacher man" feeling I got from him turned me off. Other things did too, including some of his supporters, but his religiousity, which seemed like nothing more than a marketing campaign, was the real deal-breaker.

[libbygurl]

52. This is one of the bravest, most honest posts I've yet seen here.

I did notice a change in the tone of your posts of late, but I just thought I'd confused you with someone else. So it is true, after all. The research you have done does coincide with what those of us outside the Obama camp have observed, too.

I am sorry that you had to come to this very painful realisation - it's never good to find out you were deceived by someone whom you believed in so fervently. Betrayal is very hurtful.

I thank you for your sincerity and honesty, and also for your courage in posting this piece out here, where you are certain to receive plenty of negative responses. Thank you, too, for your apologies, but I personally don't recall being at the receiving end of them. But that's all part of the fiery feelings of primary season. That is very big of you to do this.

:yourock: :kick:

[chascarrillo]

55. Yeah, Martin Luther King Jr was an evil person for mixing religion and politics.

Sheesh.

[GoldieAZ49]

59. and Martin Luther King Jr was his own man

not a front man for someone else that hides his views, then denounces them.

Read through the links provided and see the role Wright plays in Obama's politics, It was Wright that spoke out against the going to war in Iraq in the church, Obama used it, softened it and delivered it in his campaign for reelection.

Wright is mixing religion and politics, Obama is the soft sell for public consumption.

The wrapper is off the marketed package.

[chascarrillo]

77. The wrapper is off of something, all right...

:rofl:

[Politicalboi]

124. So Obama

Couldn't see that the war was wrong by himself? Too bad for Hillary who caved and didn't want to look weak. No I take that back too bad for the people of Iraq for her STUPID decision. All these anti-war people here but since Hillary voted for it well we will overlook that because she was duped by Bush.

[JoFerret]

137. MLK was the real deal

Worth reading EVERY one of his published sermons for guidance.

[Martin Eden]

151. Martin Luther King had no mentors, advisors, or influences?

I read recently (can't find the link at the moment, sorry) that it took quite a bit of convincing to get MLK to take on a role of leadership in the Civil Rights movement.

Every great man has been influenced by others, through personal relationships and by inspirational example.

I doubt very much that Obama's opposition to invading Iraq was entirely the result of sermonizing or consultation with Reverend Wright. Regardless, let's not lose sight that they both took a much needed stand at a time when opponents of this war were coming under scathing criticism.

Take a closer look at Obama's specific proposals on the major issues that will confront him as president. Read his speeches and pay attention to the content. Listen to him answer questions and speak extemporaneously. Remember his accomplishments at Harvard Law School and elsewhere before he ever met Wright, and tell me that Barack Obama is a puppet of the Reverend dependent on the pulling of strings.

Do us all and yourself a favor, and read the article below written by a colleague of Obama's at the University of Chicago. It may give you a better idea of who Barack Obama is and of the qualities he possesses.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0314obamamar14,0,7185898.story

[CreekDog]

56. 13% think he's Muslim, cut him some slack if he needs to prove he is Christian

Jeez. Maybe you don't vote on this stuff but he has to worry about more than your vote.

[Omega3]

112. christian? you mean radical christian member of a racist, America hating, white blaming church which

wont play in the heartland of America in the GEif it gets this far?

[CreekDog]

126. Newsweek and Chicago Tribune investigated the church and said it was not racist

in addition, they said there were white members. the United Church of Christ says the same.

could it be that you are taking statements out of context?

[beezlebum]

131. WOW- "white blaming!" sounds like something straight out of limbaugh's mouth.

"won't play"- that is the third time i have read those exact words on this site regarding obama and rev wright. is the "won't play" part a newly issued talking point from just this morning? or are the racists just feeding off of each other? "america hating??" how very freepish.

white blaming...white blaming???? white blaming??!! i can't get over that.

seriously- i said it earlier and kind of worried it might sound baitish- sounds like we have quite a few no-white-history-month progressives on here. :eyes:

[rodeodance]

58. Juan Williams--talked of BO--He is running on transending race-yet will not

disassociate himself from racial politics. Said this will be a problem for him.

[libbygurl]

60. Kick! For honesty and courage. nt

[ericgtr]

61. Chruch & State - Never a good mix n/t

[susankh4]

62. K&R

Thanks for the honesty!

[busymom]

64. Sad but true...

I know 2 people who caucused for Obama in MN here who have since told me that they wish they could have a do-over because they wouldn't support him this time around.

[MzShellG]

66. Goldie, you know the rethugs and the Hillary camp have been using fear tactics...

Since day one, accusing him of being a muslim. There's nothing wrong with being a muslim, but he has had to deal race baiting tactics and fear mongering. Barack had to show the anti-muslim electorate that he is a christian. Aside from those issues, religion would not have been a major factor in his campaign than is Hillary's. That is no fault of his.

[theredpen]

73. Quote from Bill Clinton

"Now, one of Clinton’s laws of politics is this. If one candidate is trying to scare you and the other one is try get you to think, if one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope."

[NDambi]

70. I think you are entitled to your opinion and to vote for whom you so desire...I certainly understand

though I may not agree because come Hell, high water or the end of times, I could and never would vote for Hillary Clinton. Absolutely Never.

[eileen_d]

71. I don't see things the same way as you

but thanks for sharing your story. You make a convincing argument.

[rodeodance]

75. Thank you. Decisons like that are never easy.

[rodeodance]

76. "No to the Pastor in Chief"---That is powerful.

[GoldieAZ49]

81. Thank you, and I know I have given you a hard time in the past

and I apologize, I was wrong.

[rodeodance]

82. no problem. peace.

[robbedvoter]

79. Very thoughtful post. I too was enthusiastic about Obama for a while - until the

Sharptonizing of the Clintons started - right before SC - and that definitely turned me off and made me a Clinton supporter.
And I have a real problem with the mix of religion and politics - on either side of the aisle. The fact that Wright gathered a fan club here on DU, tells me enough about the critical thinking abilities of his supporters:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5061688

[dailykoff]

86. Uh huh. Like you were for Kerry.

We got your number long ago.

[rodeodance]

88. my gawd--glad i missed that thread! BO racialized this primary--and this

issue with Wright is showing his willingness to be further divisive.

So, the Unity meme is BS!

[dailykoff]

85. No they don't, so stop snooping around in Obama's religion.

You're coming off like a red-neck crank.

[GoldieAZ49]

90. Obama uses his religious adviser as his political adviser

Though Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator does check with his pastor before making any bold political moves.

From the fist article sited above.


From the campaign trail:
Obama has a stock line which seems to play straight into the notion that he is an instrument of the divine. To a number of audiences, he has declared: "My job is be so persuasive that if there's anybody left out there who is still not sure whether they will vote, or is still not clear who they will vote for, that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down on you, you will experience an epiphany ... and you will suddenly realise that you must go to the polls and vote for Obama."

To be fair to Obama, this is said in a manner which just leaves open the idea that he is not being entirely serious. Yet I don't believe that those applauding this riff see it as elevated irony – and it is slightly creepy even as a joke. Perhaps it isn't a joke at all, but completely sincere: Obama's speeches are studded with religious rhetoric. For example, last October he told an audience of 4,000 that he hoped to be "an instrument of God" and that "I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth".

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-obama-must-beware-of-turning-into-a-cult-787298.html

You are coming off like you want another Pastor in Chief, that sees himself as an instrument of God, to follow the one we have had for the past 8 years.

Go ahead and kneel at the alter of Obama, you have every right to do so, and I have the right not to.

[dailykoff]

93. Forget religion. We're fighting a losing war and facing economic meltdown.

Religion is a sideshow and Obama is better qualified to handle the issues.

[Omega3]

114. I won't forget religion, one of the reason's I'm a Dem is b/c I don't want religion intertwined with

my politics. This guy scares me. We're just getting over a literal born-again christian in the WH and I don't want another overly religious politician in there, no matter the party.

and how in the world is BO better prepared to help the economy than HC? was it his years as a community organizer?

[peace13]

129. And what say you about Hillary's religious background? n/t

[angie_love]

95. Yes b/c somehow voting for a war thats killed thousands of innocent lives

is better judgement than having a pastor whos made some off the cuff remarks in his 30 year career. LOL. Ok.

[GoldieAZ49]

97. and what do you think "an instrument of God" President

that says "I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth".

using a radical pastor as an adviser before making any bold political move (O's words again) is going to do to end any war?



Do you know how many wars have been waged throughout history by "an instrument of God" that were "confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth".


READ some of his words in the links.

[angie_love]

102. I see a guy whos constantly getting smeared for being a muslim

trying to combat that rumor by talking of his faith. I take absolutely no issue in that. I think you're just used to how wingnuts use religion to further their political career. For example, wingnuts say that homosexuals are not christian, that they are vile, and are going to hell. Obama took a political risk in front of a largely non-gay friendly crowd and said that Homophobia is NOT christian. Thats more than alot of politicians have done on the issue. If he really wanted to pander to the religious he would be going the wingnut route and denouncing homosexuals but he does not.

In fact, I find it odd that you think McCain somehow has better judgement, really? A guy who says he hates "gooks", calls a 14 year old Chelsea Clinton "ugly" as a joke, and cheats on his first wife after she became crippled in a car accident and subsequently leaves her for another woman, this is a man who has better judgement? Yeah i'm still not believing that.

The fact that you could even consider voting for McCain, tells me you dont' really care about substantive issues that democrats care about.

[rodeodance]

92. Its about BO's saying he can transcend racial politics yet this issues shows he

is embedded in racial politics.

But of course his racial politics started in NH and then went to SC--the rest is history

[dailykoff]

94. It only shows that some of us live in the gutter.

Rise above it, will ya? Please?

[rodeodance]

108. "Rise above it, will ya?"--this is the BO motto!--He failed.

[VotesForWomen]

96. proves the point that people have just been projecting whatever they want onto obama; as the real pi

picture begins to emerge, that will not be possible.

[GoldieAZ49]

99. Just as he wanted them to from the beginning

“I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views,” Mr. Obama wrote in “The Audacity of Hope, his I’m-running-for-president book. “As such, I am bound to disappoint some, if not all, of them.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/us/politics/24obama.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1204250736-OyKeIHRcnJN5NQfgBvbzOw

[dailykoff]

100. Nobody's projecting IWR, Iran, and cluster bombs on him.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[GoldieAZ49]

101. we don't know what is behind the blank screen he has been showing us n/t

[dailykoff]

103. Here, let me show you:

"Barack Obama's Stirring 2002 Speech Against the Iraq War"

Senator Barack Obama (D-Il), then an Illinois state senator, delivered these remarks in October 2002 at the Federal Plaza in Chicago:



"I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil.

I Don't Oppose All Wars

"I don't oppose all wars. My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil.

"I don't oppose all wars. After September 11, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again.

Opposed to Dumb, Rash Wars

"I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

"What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

"That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics."

from full speech at link: http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm?rd=1

............

Hillary:
- NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
- YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
- YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
- YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
- Hillary refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.

OBAMA:
- YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
- NO on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
- In response to the Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran Obama drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.
- Not then in the Senate but took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution
- OBAMA signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.


McCain:
- NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.
- YES on Bankruptcy bill (S.256) which stripped protections for people in debt.
- YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.
- YES on the Iraq War Resolution.
- McCain refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.

original post by grassfed: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4990975&mesg_id=4990975

............................

[GoldieAZ49]

107. And when the "instrument of God" denounces THIS segment of his past

to "create his kingdom on earth"

I am sure you will drink the kool aid, maybe serve on the front line.

Good luck with that.

[dailykoff]

109. What on earth are you talking about.

You're really sounding ridiculous, you know that?

[angie_love]

104. yeah hes really Osama in disguise.

LOL. Get real.

[Lucinda]

98. K&R

[kiva]

105. K&R n/t

[ExtraGriz]

106. K & R

dont need a brainwashed politician of hate...obama is suffering from stockholm syndrome

[F.Gordon]

110. 'African American Religious Leadership Committee'

Why does someone running for President have an African American Religious Leadership Committee working as part of his campaign?

:shrug:

When the Left becomes just as bad (worst?) than the Right it's time for me to become apolitical. How is this "issue" any different than Focus on the Family?

I'm not a single issue voter but Separation of Church and State is certainly high on my list on issues I care about. If Obama is elected will he have a Prayer Group that prays for him (like bush* does)?

[jillan]

113. I have been wondering the same thing as well.

[F.Gordon]

115. It won't be addressed

Rather than giving pause and asking the questions..... it's much easier to just call people "racist" or refer to an opponent's supporters as a "lynch mob". Oh well.

[rodeodance]

121. I think

BO is just dressed up Bush's 'faith based" meme

[Voice for Peace]

117. Watch this speech from 2006 before you make a judgement call

Obama talks about the relationship between religion and politics.
Take the time, it is worth it to be informed about his actual views.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/as-this-video-shows-obamas-pat.php

[IndyOp]

142. Thank you VfP. I am not religious, but I don't have any problem with people

who speak and act from their own religious tradition. We want potential leaders to talk about their personal beliefs and I want to know that their beliefs overlap with mine - whether or not the source of their anti-poverty, pro-social justice beliefs, pro-peace beliefs come from a religious or non-religious source.

On Edit - Please post this in a separate thread or let me know if you want me to do so. I think this is an important issue.

[Voice for Peace]

163. Thanks for your response. Someone posted it elsewhere (that's how I found it) but

I think it's worth posting again if you want to do it.
(You may have more credibility here since you're past 1000 posts).
I agree that it ought to be widely watched, I've been sending it to people all day.

[Voice for Peace]

164. Also" I'm not religious either. In fact in general I have an allergy to religion and politicians.

The speech impressed me particularly on those accounts. There is some mix of vision, wisdom, political brilliance that comes through which for me was astonishing. I keep being surprised by Obama, my opinion of him keeps going higher.

[Politicalboi]

123. What are those White People doing there?

Really if every candidate did as their preacher told them they would probably be saints. Maybe Bush should have listened to Rev Wright during Katrina. This is getting to be so silly. And I am an Atheist and religion scares the shit out of me. To me it's a mind fuck and doesn't belong in politics AT ALL. It would be better world without religion.

[peace13]

125. It is clear to me that this country will never have another

president. This is craziness. I think that you should move forward with these issues so that McCain and his own brand of religious nuts can lead us into endless war. I give up. Words fail me as I read this insanity.

[hfojvt]

127. "we enjoyed the peace and prosperity of the 1990s

Sorry you missed it Michelle, were you at your Ivy League school and too busy to notice it?"

I missed it too, and you really don't sound very sorry. I got really sick of reading Republicans like George Will write about how prosperous everybody was when I still did not have a job with benefits. Maybe Michell and Barack are thinking about me when they complain about the supposed prosperity of the 1990s. Maybe there was still alot of poverty in the black community. It is a good thing or a bad thing if a fortunate couple still thinks about and complains on behalf of the less fortunate?

[GoldieAZ49]

130. yes, we were not in a war and our economy was very strong

On the whole America was doing very well. Some better than others.

Was it perfect for everyone, no. Will it ever be perfect for everyone, no.

Has this country been in a decline over her 44 year lifetime, no. Think of all the changes and improvements we have had in the past 44 years.

Is there room for improvement? Absolutely.

Are her words inspiring us to achieve more? I don't think so, I have always subscribed to positive reinforcement over negative reinforcement.

Personal preference I guess.

[hfojvt]

156. I have always subscribed to the notion of not glossing over the truth

even if it is not inspiring or positive. I think far too many things have gone wrong in the last 44 years, especially after Reagan. In too many ways things continued to get worse under Clinton. In too many cases, things got worse because of Clinton. The top 5% got 21% of the national income in 1993 and 22.4% in 2001. You've gotta know that something's wrong before you will be inspired to fix it. A bunch of "we're all rich!" doesn't really help. Seems to me that it's a bunch of yuppies singing "I've got mine!" while they ignore how the other half dies.

[Straight Shooter]

128. I'm hearing a lot of hurt and a serious amount of self-reflection in your words.

I remember reading your posts over the last couple days and getting confused, telling myself, "But this is an Obama supporter." Now that I see the trajectory of your disenchantment, I understand why I perceived that you no longer supported him.

You have written an excellent summarization of the problem with Obama, and I have very little to add, except to note that I believe Rev. Wright is the one who fueled Michelle's anger/hatred toward the Clintons, also. And as a poster on DU pointed out yesterday, Obama has most certainly been endorsing Rev. Wright and his particular church by the hefty amount of his donations. IIRC, it was $25,000 last year.

Not all of us have a "crazy uncle," but even for those that do, we do not seek their counsel for important political moves. I disagree that Rev. Wright is any sort of "uncle" to Obama. With 20 years of guiding Obama in the crucial politically impressionable years of 26 to 46, IMHO, Rev. Wright is Obama's father figure.

[Sonnenschein]

134. This Michelle is a little wacko. She will cost Obama a lot of votes if he is the nominee.

[peace13]

140. Right and welcome to DU. n/t

[madisongrace]

139. The racial divide is more evident than ever....

There's no way White America is ready for this change. (Even though, I think, a lot of the message coming from the Black churches is true.)

[bridgit]

141. k&r'd

:kick:

[Oslo]

143. Obama didn't start this! Rove/Hillary did!

[bridgit]

144. No, Oprah did...

O8)

[mcollier]

146. Reality Check

What does this have to do with the price of Milk, gas, bread, eggs,and meat? Demand a discussion of the real issues facing Americans right now. Its only your financial security at risk...

[bridgit]

150. What does what have to do with the price of milk, etc?

Reality Check: It's not just my financial security...it's yours too. Or are your referring to the Cheney energy scam BO supported? Cause when you drop the leash on a mad dog, you're lucky if it runs away. Unlucky when it turns and bites you.

[WoodyM]

147. We cannot choose our

family even if it comes with a crazy uncle but we can choose our church and what is preached in it.

[cd3dem]

159. the man with all the judgment is constantly defending his judgment!

I have gone to many churches and found ones that I found fit my values... It is obvious Michelle and Barack did the same... they attended for 20 years.. this kind of rhetoric does not come out of no where!

[uberblonde]

148. K&R!

:kick:

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bridgit]

152. Good! At least you got the memo; you're up to speed: people that ask q's of BO

are trolls :patriot:

[CadenBlaker]

153. How Naive Would You Have To Be To Fall For This CRAP?

You seriously would have to be small minded and naive and gullible to fall for this post. This kind of crap is going around everywhere and is a sad state of affairs for those who have nothing else that will STICK to Obama.

[meow mix]

158. heres a good mix, chicken. liver. tuna.

mmm

[earth mom]

167. Thanks for connecting the dots for those who refuse to see the truth.

Religion doesn't belong in politics! Damn right it doesn't!

Obama is just like *!!! He is status quo just as Edwards said!

How long have some of us been saying that around here?!

And will we be saying "I told you so" in 2009 when it's too damn late?! :argh:

[GoldieAZ49]

169. They don't want to see the truth

and while Obama may recover in the primary and get the nomination (although I don't think he will)

There is not a snowballs chance in hell he will win against McCain

[earth mom]

171. I really think it's a cult because it reminds me of how freepers act about *.

I used to post on a mixed dem and rethug board before I came to DU and I swear those rethugs there worshiped *. He could do NO wrong. It was totally bizarre! :crazy:

I think McCain is a done deal too. I knew it when Edwards was pushed out. :argh:

[Raffi Ella]

170. wow. Incredible post.

Thank you for taking the time to put that together and share it here.Really,incredible post.

[GoldieAZ49]

172. Now he gives a speech about race in the US

and still does not address his mentor/protege relationship with Wright for over 20 years.

He does this in an attempt to stop the bleeding, in another words, a political move, more campaign rhetoric.

He knowing supported Wright in his race baiting, teaching and preaching on hate, anger, fear, anti-semitism and anti-American from the pulpit for over 20 years. Would a man that truly was a uniter, or had any interest in the healing of this country's racial divide and problems support such teaching?

Why didn't he give this speech to Wright 15, 10, 5 years ago. Or even 1 year ago when he uninvited him from his public announcement to run for office because he was to controversial.

If Obama was any more artificial he would need a warning label on his forehead.

[mjjacobs]

173. the bloom is off the rose......

...for the Obama mystique

Thanks GoldieAZ. You can find satisfaction in that you know you've tried. Too little to late? Who knows...but as it stands now, the only way BO wins the GE is if they don't want it. As bad as the toilet we call our economy is, I do believe the GOP will do whatever it takes to keep running the show.

After the last two election, I have ZERO confidence in the electorate. Good luck all.