Should Catholics Renounce and Reject Their Church?

[Khaotic]

I grew up Catholic, still go to the Catholic Church, and am raising both of our children Catholic, but intend to let them choose their own path as their own personal faith develops through life.

I have not renounced or rejected the church because of the inquisition, the crusades, the dark ages, or priest pedophilia.

The items listed above are legions larger in scope than Obama's minister's comments, even over a 20 year period.

Those who are not Catholic might wonder why Catholics can still be Catholics.

What the church might give for its reasons aren't really the truth.

The reality is that EVERYONE has their own faith. We take the foundation of our faith and beliefs and join with people to form a religion which meets (more social than anything) in a building called a church.

While we might meet in the same building and share the same religious label, most people know in their heart that their personal beliefs and faith are not identical to those lined out by their religion. They're not the same as the person sitting next to them in a pew, and not the same as their mother or their father. Down deep, with enough questions about morality and different situations, we ALL answer different because we are all different.

Members of the Catholic church have been responsible for some pretty horrible stuff. However, a person would have to discount all the good many of the members do in this country and throughout the world to help people in poverty and to fulfill the message attributed to the man called Jesus in the bible.

There may even be "Catholics" who no longer believe in the Dogma of religion, but who garner great personal morality, virtue, and principles from the messages and stories written in the bible and read during mass.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

It means that a parishioner can, and does, cherry pick the parts of a minister's message given during a sermon. The priest of minister can rave on and on and on and on, but whoever is in the crowd doesn't have to buy everything they're selling.

If every parishioner is held guilty for words spoken by a minister, then shouldn't they be held to the same guilt level for a minister's actions???

Of course that's not sane and would never happen, but the MSM and probably a lot of people around the country are definitely ready to hold Obama accountable for words he did not say and words he was quick to renounce and reject. In short, the only way they'll let him off the hook, so to speak, is if he renounces and rejects the minister and the church. At least that's what I'm hearing implied.

I think that's as overboard as expecting Catholics to renounce and reject the Catholic church because of the crimes of some of the members.

[Unsane]

1. Should people stop posting stupid and ineffective analogies about the Wright scandal?

YES

[scheming daemons]

12. A) the Wright thing is not a "scandal" B) the analogy fits very well...

..

[Unsane]

16. The analogy does not fit well

Nobody's beef is with Trinity United Church of Christ; rather, the pastor's own comments have stirred the controversy and are the the center of the analysis. Should a Catholic politician attend an offbeat church, where the priest often expounds on political topics, and acts inappropriately, similar calls for that politician to reject that priest (and possibly leave the parish) would result. The OP's analogy fails. We're not dealing with atrocities committed by an organized religion as a whole, but with particular pastors living here and now.

[scheming daemons]

18. If Bob Jones University didn't kill Dubya's campaign, this won't kill Obama's....

...

[Unsane]

21. It might have if Dubya had attended Bob Jones's services for 20 years

[Laf.La.Dem.]

2. Pat yourself on the back

Very good post - thank you:toast:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

3. would you take your children to see your priest perform like this up on the altar....

"Hillary is married to Bill, and Bill has been good to us. No he ain't! Bill did us, just like he did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty," booming loudly as he gyrated and humped on the altar?


didn't think so


.

[cottonseed]

19. Yes.

I'd rather have a Pastor gyrating and humping on the alter than on my kids.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

22. good for you, bad for your kids....btw I wasn't asking you

[Raven]

4. I make a distinction between the faith (a particular belief in a

particular God), and the Institution and the people who run the Institution. The Catholic Institution is terribly flawed, corrupt and dishonest as are some of the people running it. The faith is another thing. That is a set of beliefs that should be able to exist without the Institution. I was born a Catholic, raised a Catholic but I no longer go to church or practice the faith. That may have more to do with me than with the scandal the Catholic Church has experienced in recent years.

[onehandle]

5. DU is largely intolerant of religion and the religious.

And DUers would never believe the Fact that most American Catholics are pro-choice and Liberal to Moderate.

I'd take reactions to your thread with a grain of salt. This isn't the real world.

[DesertFlower]

6. great post. i was raised

catholic too, but gave up my faith in my early 20s.

i think with religion of any kind -- you can view it like an AA meeting. "take what you need and leave the rest behind". i think that's what many people do.

[seriousstan]

7. If the priest is preaching pedophilia on the pulpit, YES!

If the priest is preaching profanity on the pulpit, YES!

If the priest is preaching hatred on the pulpit, YES!

If the priest is preaching divisiveness on the pulpit, YES!

If the priest is preaching racism on the pulpit, YES!

Of course I wouldn't go back hundreds of years to find examples.

I also would not spend 20 years not listening to the priest.

[dailykoff]

8. Catholic bishops managed to get on the wrong side of 2004 and 1960.

They were up in arms with Kerry over abortion and with JFK over who knows what. And let's not forget Italian bishops' support of Mussolini in the 30s. Looking to religious figures for political direction is just not a good idea.

[Breeze54]

9. It's up to the individual.

As a woman, I rejected the Catholic Church and all other religions a long time ago.

[Solon]

10. Well, my mother hasn't been in a Catholic Church going on well over a decade now...

and the last time she was there was for a wedding, other than that, she hasn't gone since the 1970s. Her reasons are various, mostly to do with the Church's position on Choice, GLBT rights, women in general, etc. My Dad was the one who took us kids, my sister and I to church every Sunday. We both even went to PSR(Parochial School of Religion), I was even Confirmed in the Church, after that, my Sister dropped out before she could be confirmed.

I found out later that the only reason why either myself or my sister was in PSR was to keep my Grandmother happy, after I was confirmed, my mother basically said "fuck it" and let my sister(6 years younger than me) to drop out. Interestingly enough, my own life experiences sort of moved me away from the Church after Confirmation. At the time, I was contemplating joining a seminary to become a priest, yeah, I was that faithful in the Church. My mother opposed my decision, and she said it was a big decision, and that I should think about it first, so I said I'll think about it while I went to college.

In any event, it was my experiences outside of the home, making friends with a Buddhist Monk and an agnostic in College, along with my own questioning of the Church's beliefs, especially theological and about human behavior that started moving me away from the Church. I wouldn't have called my life in the home sheltered or cloistered, but I was, by and large, oblivious to certain things.

For example, it wasn't until years later, when I became an adult, that I realized that one of my childhood best friends had two moms. My parents, and all the other parents of my other friends knew, but they never made an issue out of it. Hell, my mom actually had to TELL me this, I was a child at the time, and we moved away from my friend when we were around the age of 10. Sifting through childhood memories of my friend's moms holding hands, kissing, and walking into the same bedroom just sort of "clicked" in my mind.

So, as I became an adult, a lot of questioning of the Church occurred in my mind, and I continued on my I guess you could call it spiritual journey. I became curious about religion in general, and so I read and talked to many people about various different religions, from Buddhism, as mentioned above, to Judaism, Islam, Taoism, philosophies like Humanism(great influence), etc. To be honest, I wasn't sure what I was looking for, I bought or checked out some books, I just wanted to learn. Anyways, so I was at the book store when I found a book called "Wicca for Men" by A.J. Drew. I glanced at a few pages, mostly because I thought it odd that a religion would require a book like that. I knew nothing about Wicca at the time, so I bought the book and looked up a lot of stuff on the Internet. After sifting through the bullshit, I realized I found a religion I'm comfortable with.

Sorry I got side tracked. I guess the gist is that my mother is what you would call a lapsed Catholic, for myself, I'm not a Catholic at all, oh, and for my sister, I actually don't know, I know her husband is a atheist, that's about it. My sister does have a few books about Goddess worship, but that's about all I know, we don't talk about religion that much. As far as my father is concerned, well, he stopped going to church when us kids stopped going, yeah, he did it for the kids only.

Oddly enough, for the rest of my extended family, I have 2 cousins who are agnostic, one who is atheist, and 1 who is some type of Baptist(she married into her husband's church), and another who was the most religious of us all(she was going to become a nun), who later married in a Methodist church and hasn't been back since. Actually, all of my cousins, who are married, and my sister as well, joined other churches to get married, haven't been back to those churches, except for my Baptist cousin. Just a note, all of them were raised Catholic.

Sorry, I got sidetracked again. :)

[styersc]

11. "CAfeteria Catholics" are the rule, not the exception.

Every Catholic I know picks and chooses which of the dictates that they feel are relevent and correct.

Many of our right wing friends want to turn a blind eye to anti-Death Penaly, anti-War and charity to the poor elements of the church. Lefties might dismiss anti-abortion, anti-divorce and anti-gay dictates.

Practrically every Catholic I know, including all of my family, can and will discuss the parts of the church that they agree with and what they find less important. You, in your post, outlined several things that you see as wrong and worthy of condemnation.

Obama is being asked to do the same. General statements of how he disagrees with some things without further discussion is not going to satisfy.

In the same way the Obermann took Hillary to task for not taking advantage of the Ferraro flap to hit racism head on, Obama should take this opportunity to tell the country exactly how he thinks race effects society and politics- what he agrees with and disagrees with re:Wright.

[sueragingroz]

13. As a lesbian, I renounced and rejected the catholic church.

[TheZug]

14. It's not the same thing, because most Catholics aren't black.

Until that time, all the condemning of America, archaic views on women, birth control, and choice need to be swept under the rug. Nothing to see here.

[Breeze54]

17. But there are a lot of black Catholics...

Global Count of Catholics of African Descent: 270 MILLION *

http://www.nbccongress.org/black-catholics/worldwide-count-black-catholics-01.asp

Today the 270 million Catholics of African descent represent almost 25% of the
one billion Roman Catholics throughout the world in more than 59 countries.

The Catholic African World Network, 2005

[ZombieHorde]

15. Which is closer to God?

The Church or your heart?

[apocalypsehow]

20. It's often difficult, being a progressive and a Catholic. I haven't rejected my Church, and don't

intend to. But your post raises interesting issues, and I think is quite right in the final analysis.

[moobu2]

23. I admire Oprah for rejecting Rev Wright early on

Barack should have had the sense to do the same thing.