Why I support Hillary Clinton:

[jlake]

I was a huge supporter of Joe Biden - and I think he was our best candidate -- by FAR.

As soon as Biden dropped out I flirted with going for Edwards,
But it wasn't hard to tell this would be an Obama v Clinton battle..... so I had to go with Clinton.

Obama and Hillary are virtually identical on policies - but on my 3 most important issues, I have to side with Hillary.
GLBT, Health care and Energy Policy. (Hill is far from perfect, but a notch better than Obama)

I have to discount the Iraq War because I honestly don't think Obama would have opposed it had he been in the senate... and by his own admission, he doesn't know how he would have voted either -- let alone other aspects that may or may not exist (blackmail, threats etc) that may have influenced Hillary's and others' votes.
And Obama's actions since he has been in the senate do not convince me he is truly against the Iraq War any more than Hillary.

Going with personality or more importantly "intuition" I feel that Obama is trying to be all things to all people and is willing to compromise any and all core Democratic principles to win.
Though Hillary has certainly been guilty of this - I feel that she is a true liberal at heart who would fight for those core values.

And yes, her time as First Lady is a valuable experience - she knows the ins and outs of Washington; She knows all the levers and switches of power and how to work the system to accomplish what needs to be done.
Obama is relying on charisma..... and I don't think that will work once he is inside the White House.

I now sit firmly in Hillary's camp and am behind her 100%.

[Captain Hilts]

1. I'm Clark, to Biden to Clinton. nt

[jlake]

2. ..

[Umbram]

3. Getting attention seems to be your priority.

Really, going negative is the only way you are going to get it.

[jlake]

6. ..................

:hug:

[cali]

4. good post

I don't agree with parts of it, and I really dislike the twisting of Obama's words about the IWR vote, but overall, I think you explained your support for Clinton well, so you get a k&r from me.

That, and I have an inexplicable soft spot for you.

[jlake]

36. Thanks Snickerdoodle

:hi:

[XemaSab]

5. OMG... a sober post from jlake!

:P

(Or have you been smoking the weed? I'm suspicious about how mellow and well-reasoned this post seems! :P )

[theredpen]

33. Did I see him with one of those alien pods last night?

Just sayin' :tinfoilhat:

[jlake]

37. Your poll really touched me.

:hi:

[theredpen]

42. Your welcome, you've earned it.

[jlake]

47. ......

:P

[Faygo Kid]

34. Agreed. How the hell did that happen?

Back to old ways soon, I'm sure, but this is a reasonable, positive post.

Never thought I would live to see the day.

[jlake]

35. Bwahaha Just trying to confuse the Jlake haters.

Thought it was important to share why I support Hillary and not just oppose Obama.


:beer: :beer: :beer: Back to get my "meds"

[XemaSab]

41. Sorry to break it to you man

All the "haters" ain't gonna see this.

BTW, you never responded to my proposal of marriage last night... it made me :(

[jlake]

46. yeah, I guess that's true since I'm on "the list" being PMed around

....did I get a proposal? Hmm..... I missed that.
But your last PM that I haven't yet responded to is partly what inspired this post.
I feel the same way about Hillary's liberal moral compass as you do Obama's..... though there is much evidence we are both operating on hope to come to those conclusions.

[XemaSab]

70. Excellent!

:toast:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. Indeed.

[maddiejoan]

8. I went straight

from Kucinich to Hillary.

[jlake]

38. Well, I just can't seem to go straight

but at least I ended up in the right place!

;)

[easy_b94]

9. NO!!!

[rodeodance]

19. ~ALL FIRED UP FOR THE LADY~ YES SHE WILL~ YES WE WILL~~

[intaglio]

73. rodeodance - now it's your turn

Stop with the cheerleading, let's hear the arguments.

[Nia Zuri]

10. Thanks jlake! Not that I agree, but you make perfect sense and sound so much

more rational than your usual Hilary rah rah posts. We really need more posts like this on both sides. You haven't moved me at all, but at least you sound sane (no offense, really!) I actually gained some insights from this.

[Drachasor]

11. There are no examples of any core values Obama is sacrificing to win

Because he is a progressive and will always remain so.

[Drachasor]

12. Accidental Post (Deleted)

[jlake]

14. McClurkin, praising Ronald Reagan, against Universal Healthcare, voting yes on Cheney's energy

policy... there is quite a list.

[Drachasor]

20. And those are just FUD arguments, and have been shown to be bad before

1. McClurkin: Despite what that guy said, Obama has always been for gay rights and has denounced McClurkin's views on gays. There is no reason to think one man's statements will somehow undue Obama's record or stances on this issue. These stances Obama has stated repeatedly and always stood by.

2. He said Ronald Reagan was a transformative figure in American politics. That was certainly true. He radically changed the Republican party AND got a lot of people to support conservative politics. Obama has decried and spoken against the policies Reagan and other conservatives stand for, repeatedly. Just because he said someone did a lot, doesn't mean he thinks what that person did was good. Obama clearly and definitively does not think what Reagon did for America was good (impressive in a bad way is more accurate).

3. He has consistently been for Universal Health Care. However, a mandate that requires even those without money to pay or suffer, is not a good idea. Progressives can legitimately stand against that implementation of UHC. Also, a ton of health care is better than no widespread healthcare. Having a basic plan that can get talked about and worked on, without alienating moderates is important.

4. "Cheney's Bill" got completely reworked in several key areas before it passed. It had a net tax increase on oil companies. Look it up!

[thevoiceofreason]

25. He voted yes on a drive by bill

Hillary voted yes (and Obama no) to opening some very environmentally sensitive areas in the Gulf of Mexico to drilling. They both are less than perfect regarding their energy voting history -- I like his plans better.

[Juche]

32. He didn't praise Reagan

He said that hte nation was ready for a change, which was true. The hippie movement and all the upheaval of hte 60s caused people to want some stability, which Reagan offered. He openly spoke out about how he dislikes Reagan's policies.

And the energy policy act of 2005 doesn't seem that bad to me. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems decent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005

But when you consider that Obama had a $15 billion/year for 10 year program for renewable energy that makes him serious on alt. energies.

I respect your decision, even though I am an Obama supporter. I was an Edwards supporter until the day he dropped out, and after that I went to Obama.

You are right that on the issues they are similiar, but for me one of the big factors is locking in the youth vote. Obama can pull in young people like no other, and if he gets them to vote democrat for hte next 4 years (which I'm sure he can) then an entire generation of young people (who will become 30-40 years old) will vote democrat and progressive for life. It is a long term strategy. Also my understanding is Obama is more helpful for congressional candidates when he campaigns with them. Plus he raises money better.

I do disagree with him on UHC though. Cost cutting is deeply important, and so is a strong patient bill of rights, but we should all have healthcare covered in one form or another.

[Froward69]

13. From Biden

to neutral to leaning Obama. :patriot:

Hillarys Mandatory health care (sellout to insurance by the way.)coupled with her reluctance to follow rules... and the obvious ME! me! me! attitude. Her endorsement of mcain before Obama. Her Difficulty to stick to a statement. The Republicans praying she is the nominee/lying in wait for her Etc...

Hillary Would LOOSE the GE.

never say die is one thing, Damn the party and the future of our country for my own self esteem/interest. :eyes: IS Quite another. Like Bush she has no humility. and would rather we as a party loose the GE than have ANYONE else as the nominee.:eyes:

[Drachasor]

15. The thing to keep in mind about the Iraq War vote

is that Obama said he wasn't sure how he would have voted because he had to support Kerry and Edwards at that time. If he had said "of course I would have voted against it, it was a stupid war" then he would have undermined their candidacy. It was definitely more important to sacrifice a little truth for the good of the country at that time.

[jlake]

16. If that's the story you want to go with - it proves that he'll say anything to win

and compromise on his values.

[Froward69]

18. oh yeah

Like Hillary doesn't change her opinion to suit the way the Political wind blows.

[Drachasor]

22. You're right. He should have hung Kerry and Edwards out to dry -- great argument!

We are talking about politics here. Unfortunately our country has shown it doesn't often have the patience for a nuanced discussion of issues.

[sueragingroz]

17. I'm with you 100%

[Saturday]

21. Recommended. nt

[Rene]

23. Clinton....with Wes Clark for Vice President. That's the ticket.

[rodeodance]

43. Clinton-Clark 08

[fightthegoodfightnow]

49. The War Machine Lives On

.

[theredpen]

50. Clark is not pro-war, to my knowledge.

[rodeodance]

52. neither is Hilllary

[theredpen]

56. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[rodeodance]

60. :-)

[fightthegoodfightnow]

64. Votes Not Withstanding

I'm reminded of Clinton telling us how gay friendly she is while her experience led us to DOMA and "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".

Color me skeptical of anything she says. Her votes and actions are far more credible than what she says.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

53. Which Begs the Question:

Clinton isn't?

[theredpen]

58. Actions speak louder than words: no

[fightthegoodfightnow]

59. Votes Not Withstanding

Fearing the notion she would be 'soft on defense' (a rather sexist argument), Clinton has pandered to that audience and voted for not only the war but it's continued unabated funding.

That's not the experience I want.

[jlake]

71. Yep. Obama wants to add 80 Billion a year to the DoD budget & 100K new troops

Dude's a warmonger.

[lumberjack_jeff]

75. Clinton/Webb or Clinton/Edwards n/t

[thevoiceofreason]

24. That's interesting

The reason I prefer Obama is his energy policy is, in my view, much more comprehensive and realistic that hers.

Here's one snippet on that point. Hillary supports a windfall profits tax, which taxes domestic production only and to some large extent does not even tax the oil company (royalty owners, who often are little mom and pop folks here in Texas, and struggling ranchers/farmers, get taxed because their royalty has to option of being "in kind", so they are the owners of it). I find this policy to be incredibly short sighted especially in light of the oncoming economic hard times and in light of the fact that foreign oil production isn't (and can't be) taxed. Thus, we discourage domestic production and make ourselves incrementally more dependent on foreign oil.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

26. "She knows all the levers and switches of power and how to work the system"

Yes she does, to further her own and Billybob's personal agenda.
This would be the primary reason I oppose her. The last thing the country
needs right now is more of same insider's wheeling-and-dealing for their own benefit.

[jlake]

30. That all comes down to the trust and "gut feeling" we get from the candidates.

Mine tells me Obama is far more self serving and power hungry than Hillary - but yours says different.
The important thing is: we share the same goals, but just a different view on how to best accomplish them.

[OhioBlue]

45. your gut tells you that Obama is more self serving and

power hungry than Hillary?

This is a totally honest question.

When you learned that Hill won the Senate seat in NY, did you have great hope that she would be a liberal leader? That she would stand for Democratic and Liberal values and use her name recognition to get press time and advocate for these? If so, did you see her do that? Because I saw her as pretty hawkish/corporate/playing by Republican rules. I was pretty disappointed in her. I guess she did this because she wanted to make herself more appealing as a Presidential candidate. But, she could have done so much good in the Senate. She could have moved the debate.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

61. Not Even Close

You write: 'Mine tells me Obama is far more self serving and power hungry than Hillary - but yours says different.
The important thing is: we share the same goals, but just a different view on how to best accomplish them.'

Not even close. The same goal?

Let me go on record: I don't share a goal to elect any self serving candidate and anyone who claims Obama is more self serving than Clinton needs to rethink what is comedy before getting a job as a comedian.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

63. Well I appreciate the civility and it seems we at least share the same goal.

[Forkboy]

27. I wish you'd post like this more often.

Honest and thoughtful is a good thing, whether I agree or not (and I do on some of it).

K&R

[jlake]

31. Hallelujah! Looks like my prayers are working.

;)

Thanks! & I'll try.

[Jim Sagle]

28. Edwards to Clinton.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

29. DISCOUNT IRAQI WAR??? YOU'RE KIDDING

Clinton held onto that way longer than she needed to or was appropriate.

[rodeodance]

44. some are not single-issues voters. get it.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

48. Right......

........... and some of us put the Iraqi war in at least one of the top three issues.

The fact that this doesn't even make the top three is EXACTLY why I do not support Clinton.

I've commented on another post why I disagree with the perception Clinton is better on at least one other issue (GLBT). Too bad you didn't read that too.

[rodeodance]

51. so do I. Fact is --I believe Hillary has a detailed plan to get the troops out SAFE

[JohnnyLib2]

39. Yup. Thanks.

Recommended

[fightthegoodfightnow]

40. Hillary is Better on GLBT Issues?

I'm sure that's what many in GLBT leadership positions think, but if she is going to run as 'Billary' and the legacy of experience, I don't characterize DOMA and 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' as queer friendly type of 'experience' we need or want.

[LadyVT]

66. Depends on how you construe McClurkin and Newsom.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

67. They are running for office?

Not.

[mudesi]

54. That's great. Are you a supporter of math as well?

Because she can't win.

Accept it already.

[jlake]

55. Kerry didn't win either. Winning doesn't make someone right.

[LibertyorDeath]

57. Obama picks up 14 more delegates

:hi:


by James Oliphant

Sen. Barack Obama picked up 14 new delegates yesterday, widening his lead over Sen. Hillary Clinton:hi: even as the Clinton campaign maintained the race was in a dead heat.

Obama grabbed nine delegates in Iowa as the majority of John Edwards' delegates were awarded to him. And late Saturday night, he added five delegates in California. According to the Associated Press, Obama now enjoys a 119-delegate advantage over Clinton.

The delegate count was a central focus of Sunday's "Meet the Press" on NBC. The news program featured Rep. Nita Lowey, a Clinton supporter, and former Sen. Bill Bradley, who backs Obama.

Lowey focused on a core Clinton argument, that because Clinton has won more key states, she is more electable than Obama.

"Now, you and I know that no one, since 1960, has won the presidency without winning Iowa. We know you have to win Iowa, we have to win Pennsylvania, you have to win Florida. There are key states that are critical to getting the number of votes in the electoral college," Lowey said. "And I think right now, frankly, it's a tie, and I would hope . . . that between now and the time we go to the convention, we can have a really constructive discussion ."

Bradley countered that if Obama has the most delegates at the time of the convention, he should be the nominee.

MORE>>>

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008 ...

[democrattotheend]

62. Great post. Thanks

I don't agree with everything you said, but I appreciate your making your case for Hillary instead of knocking Obama and insulting his supporters. I do think you make some good points...I agree with you that Clinton knows the ins and outs of Washington better and would be more effective on that particular measure.

But I also think charisma goes a long way in terms of being an effective president. After all, the staff does most of the work behind the scenes getting bills through Congress and such. But a charismatic president can help build public consensus for a proposal, and public support can provide an important counterweight to the special interests and other roadblocks to progress.

In terms of Obama's ideology, everything I have read tells me that in his heart he is a bleeding heart liberal on most measures, but he is not an ideologue. He is willing to listen to different points of view even when he has his own, and seems to care more about what makes sense than what is in line with liberal orthodoxy. So he might disappoint us at times by not staying true to pure liberal ideology, but I'd rather have a president who listens to all sides before making a decision and then decides on the most logical solution.

I know you have made up your mind for the PA primary and I certainly don't expect you to change it. But given that you may have to warm up to Obama at some point down the road (just as I might have to warm up to Clinton), I suggest you read this article by a fellow University of Chicago law professor that gives a really good perspective on who Obama is and what his approach is. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cass-r-sunstein/the-obama-i-know_b_90034.html

[blm]

65. When did you EVER see Hillary actually FIGHT against Bush the last 7 years?

She didn't believe enough in ANY of the battles the Dems had against Bush to risk laeding any one of those battles herself?

[jlake]

68. When has JK, when has Obama?

[blm]

69. ToraBora, Downing Street Memos, Iraq withdrawal, Alito filibuster? Where were YOU, that you never

noticed?

[intaglio]

72. Thanks jl, now this is the sort of OP we need

You have given honest and deeply held reasons for supporting Hillary. How you came to your opinion is neither here nor there, these are your reasons and they are good ones; although you missed one, that you believe her to be a fighter. Now others have come to an honest opinion that Obama is the candidate for them by a similar process to yourself.

The difficulty with this is that supporters on both sides have become deeply entrenched and can no longer use rationality to bring partisans for the opposition over to "their" camp and that is how the attacks begin. These attacks, by both sides, continue out of fear. I noted this fear in an earlier OP because it is a fear that particularly affects the Democratic party - the fear of failing.

The people who support the Democratic party know that if they fail to win the Presidency that the US will be in deep trouble. Unconstitutional Signing Statements will continue, the Supreme Court will be stacked with RWers, corporate interests will ride roughshod over individual rights and many of the freedoms the US once exemplified will be lost. This makes the next election hugely important and whichever candidate wins the nomination ALL democratic supporters must unite behind that candidate.

You know I do not agree with your choice but I always respect honestly expressed opinions. The converse of this is that I will strongly attack slime, hypocrisy and mindless cheerleading. Here's to honesty and here's to the next Democratic President of the United States of America.

[oasis]

74. America needs the Clinton know-how now more than ever. (eom)

[BlueIdaho]

76. Yes...

The Clintons sure do "know how" to give us more of the same old Washington do nothing politics - questionable pardons, backroom deals, dirty donors, and GRIDLOCK.

I just can't wait!

[oasis]

77. The 90's: 22 million new jobs created. Peace/prosperty. What kind of an idiot

would believe that happened all by itself?

[BlueIdaho]

79. Presidents

Get too much credit for good economies and too much blame for bad economies. Its not as simple as you're trying to make it - trust me.

The Clintons have always been good for the Clintons - they have not always been good for America. Case in point - name five landmark administrative accomplishments of the clinton administration during Bill's second term... Keeping Bill out of jail doesn't count.

[JoFerret]

78. He's not ready for prime time (yet)

By 2016 he will be ready to rock and roll.