For everyone defending Wright

[gaspee]

So... you think the government created AIDS to kill black people, huh?

And just what does the honorable Reverend Wright have to say about us LGBQT folk, I wonder.

The UCC church is pro equal marriage. Mr. Obama is not and he says he isn't because of his religious views.

So has the good reverend, in his role as Obama's spiritual advisor, influenced Obama to take a different position from the rest of his denomination?

I would love to hear some of Wright's teachings on us LGBTQ folk, wouldn't you?

[Beregond2]

1. research

You might try doing a little research before you post. I'm not going to do it for you. Go read.

[gaspee]

5. snort

typical. Why don't you look up the word "rhetorical."

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

12. NO way "the government created AIDS to kill black people",

[gaspee]

17. I agree

But the good reverend doesn't.

[rodeodance]

39. He says a lot of divisive comments.

[stray cat]

2. Not defending but we did inject black people with Syphillis

and give small pox infected blankets to indians. I can see why people develop some paronoia. How many people say the government was responsible directly for 9-11. The presidential election was lost in 2004 by Bush induced fraud. Who really killed Kennedy? How long has the government been covering up UFOs? Which are true and which are not and where is concrete evidence either way.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

27. they sterilized black girls in North Carolina (without permission)

and thank you for reminding us that the govt has dabbled in some eugenics.

[gaspee]

30. They sterilized a lot of people

without their permission. Of all races and creeds. Let's not try to change history.

[JackBeck]

38. We did not inject Black people with syphilis.

Tuskegee was an observational study of men already infected with syphilis. They were told they had "had blood" and even withheld treatment, once penicillin was available.

Still barbaric, but there's misinformation out that that they were unwillingly given the STD.

[Sandaasu]

3. A quiz!

1) No. I can see how one might think so given what this government has done against black people though.

2) I don't know, and neither do you. We haven't heard anything on it so I won't make assumptions, and you shouldn't either.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Wright is against same-sex marraige, but not as bad on GLBT stuff as many others

Ruggerson had a good post of Wright saying some things that were not ideal, but a lot better than one might hear in more conservative southern black churches.

(His language was sort of inflamaotiry, but the message wasn't bad)

I don't fault him on GLBT stuff so much, based on what little I know.

[easy_b94]

4. Whatever....

[murielm99]

6. Individual UCC churches have the option of

voting to be open and affirming of LGBT people. Obama's church has chosen not to be open and affirming.

Your post is valid. I would like to hear Wright's teachings on this subject, too.

[Bluerthanblue]

7. Why don't you ask the Rev. rather than asking for people's opinions-

If you really do want to know his stand, you should look into it personally-

peace~

[cali]

8. Your ignorance is showing.

Wright is consistent with UCC support for GLBT rights. Duh. And no, I don't agree with Wright on the AIDS thing, but I understand the reason why this is not an uncommon pov in the AA community. Judging from your posts here, you don't give a hoot about the facts. Wright's support for GLBT rights has been explained to you before.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. Disowned by Obama, he's an old uncle guy that's thankfully retired now.

[peace13]

10. If you want to fight about preachers please....

pick on the preachers that are endorsing McCain there is a butt load of wackos available for you to dissect! He is the opponent in November. Do us all a favor and focus on defeating the Rethugs. peace, Kim

[bellasgrams]

11. I havn't heard any of them talking hate of country or color.

[peace13]

13. Right...

look again. Hate, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? I guess if you are a cushy christian in America all is well. If you can't see hate in the preachers that endorse McCain than you are lost.

[EFerrari]

24. You're kidding right?

Both in your interpretation of Wright and your ignorance of McCain's backers?

:wow:

On the September 18, 2006, edition of National Public Radio's Fresh Air, Hagee stated that Hurricane Katrina was an act of God, punishing New Orleans for "a level of sin that was offensive to God". He specifically referred to a "homosexual parade" that was held on the date the hurricane struck and that this was proof "of the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans" <1> , even though the Southern Decadence parade was scheduled for the following week and the primary gay neighborhoods, the French Quarter and the Marigny, were spared the flooding and destruction. Another reason for God's wrath, Hagee claims, was the Bush administration's pressure on Israel to abandon settlements and the land associated with them. Therefore, God took American land in a tit for tat exchange during Hurricane Katrina.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee#Claims_that_Hurricane_Katrina_was_.22the_Judgement_of_God_against_New_Orleans.22

[blogslut]

46. That's because they're all white and America has been good to them

Perspective, my dear.

[gaspee]

15. And what makes you think

I don't? Do you really think I support McCain and his unholy aliances? Your logic is faulty.

I, as a lesbian, am told I have to vote Democratic because the other guy is so much worse. To me, they both look kind of shitty.

As an atheist, and a radical one at that, I think they all preach their own brand of hate. Especially the part about everyone who doesn't follow their rules will burn in everlasting hellfire. Can't get much more hateful than that...

[peace13]

20. I don't want to fight about preachers that was my point.

I am a big fan of the Constitution and the separation of church and state for many of the reasons that you state. I wish that the Dems would get back to the issues and not this religion crap. The answers on the issues will tell us what we need to know. peace, Kim

[Steely_Dan]

47. I completely agree...n/t

[gaspee]

16. And wow

I only have one ignored on this thread - I must be on everyone's ignore list. Cool!

Oops, spoke too soon. They're coming out of the woodwork now!

[kwassa]

18. Wright favors marriage equality, and preaches against homophobia and sexism.

marriage equality

http://www.nbjcoalition.org/about/supporters.html

homophobia and sexism

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004284042_pastorside15.html

On Friday, the United Church of Christ (UCC) issued a 1,400-word statement defending Wright and his "flagship" congregation. It lauded Wright's church for its community service and work to nurture young people and the pastor for speaking out against homophobia and sexism in the black community.

[gaspee]

28. I checked out your links

And I'd like to see in his words, not just his name on a page, where he supports marriage equality. I looked and couldn't find it. And if he supports equal rights for all Americans, why the hell doesn't Obama?!

And on that page I loved Carol Moseley Braun's message. I voted for her in the last primary season even though she dropped out before I actually voted.

A admire her greatly.

[theredpen]

19. OMG, what tripe

"So... you think the government created AIDS to kill black people, huh?"

I believe that the government sat on its hands and let gays and blacks die because they were gays and blacks. So, it might as well have.

"And just what does the honorable Reverend Wright have to say about us LGBQT folk, I wonder."

Why don't you stop wondering and look it up, instead of relying on innuendo — a tried and true smear tactic.

"The UCC church is pro equal marriage. Mr. Obama is not and he says he isn't because of his religious views."

Has he?

"So has the good reverend, in his role as Obama's spiritual advisor, influenced Obama to take a different position from the rest of his denomination?"

More innuendo.

"I would love to hear some of Wright's teachings on us LGBTQ folk, wouldn't you?"

Why don't you research them, then, instead of posting this "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" Fox News innuendo?

[EFerrari]

21. Would you really love it? Will you read the posts offered to you

on this thread or can we expect more factless, knee jerk accusations?

[annie1]

22. as a hil supporter, i don't mind him. i don't agree with what he says BUT...

i do find it divisive, obviously, and i think it's odd that as a senator obama would be so involved. jmo. that being said, at least to me it shows he's kind of edgy, and does have his ears open to black power, and as a result will be very active in the working on the plight of black people in this country, which i think is extremely important and not talked about much in national politics. I would like to know that he's got his mind on it. THis doesn't convince me that he does, but at least i know he's surrounded by it.

[gaspee]

25. I agree

about the plight of black people in this country.

It's funny that because I won't vote for Obama because I disliked him very much when I met him personally back in '06, that I'm considered to be racist and that I, like dimson, don't care about black people.

Couldn't be further from the truth, but if you don't worship at the alter of St Obama around here, you're accused of being a racist.

For the most part, I don't disagree with Wright. I do, however, think he makes Obama unelectable. I especially take issue with his accusation that AIDS was a plot by the white man to wipe out the black man. He has a couple of wacky ideas that crack me up, but I get where he's coming from. And I have a REAL problem with his preachings about women.

As an atheist, I am sick and tired of my government pandering to religionists, but that seems to be what the people want.

I am not too fond of most preachers, but I find Wright far less obnoxious than a lot of them.

When I saw his tapes, I kind of laughed, like I do at all over the top preaching on my TV. Guess I just don't have the spirit of Jay-sus!

I think I'll live, thanks.

[JackBeck]

32. It's not "edgy" to repeat the things that are cultural mores.

There's a long history of distrust with government and medicine in communities of color. And it's understandable why those beliefs are part of their community.

[annie1]

44. i meant edgy of obama. politicians don't usually participate that bodly.

[QC]

23. Wright is just some irrelevant, crazy old man to whom Obama pays no attention whatsoever.

Didn't you get the memo?

[gaspee]

33. Musta missed that one (n/t)

[EFerrari]

26. Guess Who's Coming To Dinner

Raymond Leon Roker
March 14, 2008

I would like all the Huffington Post's black readers (please tell me you're out there, right?) to skip this post — this will seem like boring inside baseball to you. I would also like all open-minded non-blacks to not bother with this rant — as I understand that you feel our pain. This post only pertains to those still grappling with their overnight introduction to Black America brought into stark focus by the very presidential lens of Barack Obama. Now, for those still reading, can I ask you: Is it so hard to understand the unvarnished elements of the black community? I mean, do I have to rent each and every one of you a Tyler Perry film? Is it so hard to empathize with a people who haven't learned to cover all of their warts as they enter mainstream national politics? We don't want a free ride, but man, stop with the fear mongering.

Find me a people that have been systematically disenfranchised, underrepresented, shut out, since time memorial? And then find me evidence of total civility and political correctness in that community? It doesn't exist. So, if the rules are that in order for us to play in your game — the ascent to POTUS — we have to cleanse ourselves of all evidence of our fight to even get to this point, then we will lose. We're not ready for prime time if that means we have no controversial Jeremiah Wright's still visible to mainstream America. Obama's pariah pastor is emblematic of the vitriol that is still part of the black dialogue in some ways. But most importantly, it is not what Obama has been preaching from his time as a community leader and throughout his entire political career. So why force him to answer for it?

Blacks have not been a part of the national political discussion until very recent memory, and only a handful of blacks have ever held a state office in our history. So where has this left our nascent national political craft? Well, for starters, we don't have the 200 plus years of learning the delicate waltz known as pandering or kowtowing. We haven't perfected the skill of dancing around our relationship to questionable supporters (find me a president that didn't have these albatrosses), strange bedfellows and fair weather friends. We have the unique American experience — along with our Hispanic, Asian and other rising political power-holder brethren — of having to internalize our strange native politics. Because to show you our true feelings — like in the case of Jeremiah Wright — would be to scare the living crap out of you. We haven't had a national dress rehearsal in which to work these things out. And frankly, we didn't really think this was going to be our year.

Is it so hard to understand that this outsider role leaves us with a lot less refinement? It leaves us with outspoken and controversial folks like the Reverend Wright making the nightly news and filling the blogosphere. In the black community, Wright's words are just part of the vast script of opinions. Part of the deep and sometimes paradoxical story of a people still struggling to be heard. People like him don't speak for all blacks; again, we are not in lock step, no matter how much we all might like rap music. But he does speak for some, whose frustrations with America's abysmal record of keeping her promises has resulted in a lifetime of disappointment. Now, we know that you can feel us on this point, because she's not always been good to you too, our fairer brothers and sisters. But you have your own ways of dealing with your frustrations, and they're much more acceptable on the mainstream stage. Maybe Wright is the the yin to your evangelical Christian yang — preaching fire and brimstone about gays, school choice and illegal immigration.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/raymond-leon-roker/guess-whos-coming-to-din_b_91666.html

[JackBeck]

29. I may not agree with the first statement

But I understand why communities of color believe that the government created HIV to kill certain minority groups.

I hear this sentiment all the time in my line of work.

[gaspee]

31. I lived in SF

from 1991 through 2000. I've heard it a lot. I thought it was nutty than too, but an understandable belief. Now murder through neglect, *that* I believe.

[JackBeck]

35. I do a whole piece on conspiracy theories in my HIV 101 class.

Not only with clients but also staff: nurses, doctors, non-medical service provders...This belief is held by many. All I try to do is provide the facts, while also acknowledging why those beliefs are held. It's a very fine, high wire act.

[gaspee]

36. Thank you

for the work that you do. I've lost many, many friends to AIDS over the years. The early 90's in SF were especially tough.

Thank you.

[JackBeck]

43. Funny how life's an unpredictable journey.

I was a bartender 5 years ago. And now I do HIV Health literacy education, with no experience before I started. Our focus is on those living with HIV/AIDS, not prevention. We take all that really difficult medical information and find ways to educate clients and non-medical service providers, in order for the client to understand what's going on with their bodies.

Sorry this is going off-topic and there's no need to thank me. Our government still sends out misinformation nationwide about transmission, so I use every opportunity I can get to rage against the RW in my workshops.

Here's what I say, if you want to use it in the future, on how the government couldn't have possibly created HIV:

HIV uses the CD4/T-Cell in order to make copies of itself. We know that HIV has AT LEAST been around since the 1930's. Guess when immunologists discovered the CD4/T-Cell? The 1970's. So, the government would have had to create a virus that attacks a specific cell that wasn't discovered until 40 years later.

[wurzel]

34. Afro-Americans have NO patriotic obligation!

They are not disgruntled immigrants. They were brought here in chains. They were treated like pigs for decades by the very people that have the gall now to demand their patriotism. It is amazing that so many of them demonstrated the patriotism they did in WW11 and since. And I have to see what it was that Rev Wright said that is, in fact, not true!

[patrice]

37. Does being wrong about something(s) make one wrong about everything?

Should I reject that which I find useful, because something useless comes from the same source?

These "either/or" propositions are soooooooooooo destructive!!!

Isn't the whole greater than the sum of its parts: If I work with and support people on the issues, working with this person/group on this issue - though I disagree with them on that issue - and working with that person/group on that issue - though I disagree with them on this issue, and so forth . . . . , doesn't the synergy of success affect all issues that hold the same values in common?

The idea that we should find the perfect candidate and the perfect cohort and then the task is to fight off anything that isn't part of that perfection and ally only with those whom we do deem to be part of it is primitive and fatally limited.

How old are you?

[gaspee]

40. Right

I disagree with the reverend Wright on more than his theories about AIDS. Mostly I disagree with his belief in god.

If I only voted for people I thought were right on all the issues, I would never vote.

How old are *you*?

[patrice]

45. Old and tired.

Sorry I'm kind of crabby.

None of us is going to be able to do this thing by ourselves, ergo, we're all kind of vulnerable to being betrayed, or cut-out of the "deal", by those with whom we have differences on some issues (but agree with on other things/issues). I've been worrying about this ever since all of the "Cross-over" stuff got serious. It IS scarey. Many of those cross-overs could be trojan horses. The only remedy I can see for this very real problem is as nearly universal, constructively ACTIVE, utter diligence as possible.

:hi:

[NorthernSpy]

41. why's it so important to you that blacks trust the government?

:shrug:

[PerfectSage]

42. Does anyone ever defend you for being a dumbass?