The Rules. Or why Hillary WILL win.

[LuvMyPorsche]

Candidates need 2025 delegates.

Obama has 1622 (ish)

Hillary has 1497 (ish)

Neither one will reach 2025.

This WILL go to the convention.

The RULES change then.

It's like a football game and the overtime period.

The first four quarters mean NOTHING.

It comes down to the Overtime period, first who scores, wins.

That's the rules.

Nobody's gonna' get robbed, no "will of the people" crap... he or she who hits 2025 wins.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LuvMyPorsche]

2. lol

lol, Obama fan.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rodeodance]

40. calling

members trolls is against DU rules





how do you stear your Porsche with those crude troll paws?

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

3. Not according to Pelosi; she thinks it will be decided before the

DNC. And frankly, I'll take her word over yours.

[anonymeme]

64. Pelosi Is Giving Hillary the Shiv Because Pelosi Wants to Be the First Female President of the USA.

P.O.P!

[babylonsister]

75. You are crazy as a loon. nt

[rodeodance]

91. haven't you heard that. goosh. you out of the loop.

[roguevalley]

104. Babylonsister out of the loop? Hardly, RD. By the by, the way she

would have to win is to have people change their candidate. Everyone is rabid for their candidate. Good luck with that.

[polpilot]

106. Pro-War, Pro-NAFTA Hillary loses by 6%, best case scenario.

Then...blame, excuses & Repub victory party.

[Beregond2]

4. Uh huh.

Time for your meds,isn't it?

[cali]

5. except that clearly a lot of SDs will take the delegate count and

popular vote into consideration, and Obama needs a lot fewer of the remaining SDs than Hilly dear. And pay attention: Nancy Pelosi has made it obvious who she supports and she brings lots of other SD votes with her. Unless Obama implodes, hilly is done.

[bunnies]

6. "no'will of the people' crap"

And with that statement, I know all I need to about you.

[TwilightGardener]

7. Wrong. The scores don't all suddenly get wiped out. Obama earned his

delegate lead the old-fashioned way--he campaigned, people voted for him. That will certainly be taken into account, or else they might as well not even hold primaries and let people vote at all.

[Arkansas Granny]

87. I believe that Hillary earned her delegates the same way.

[blm]

8. You ASSUME the majority of SDs WANT Clintons heading the party. NEWSFLASH: They DON'T!

They aren't buying the whole Need the Clintons back thing that the fascist wing of the party has been selling.

[rodeodance]

38. and you KNOW that for a fact?---no you do not. pure speculation from you.

[CreekDog]

47. wow you are all into facts when we aren't talking about Pastor Wright

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

54. ha ha---you don't have them. you just have proven my point. Good day to you.

CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Mar-16-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
47. wow you are all into facts when we aren't talking about Pastor Wright

[CreekDog]

Way cool. Now I get to talk about you without you responding

:evilgrin:

[Forkboy]

71. I love doing that.

If I know someone has me on ignore I respond to them all the time. Of course, a lot just lie about it, but then it's fun when they respond to you by accident and give it up. :D

[CreekDog]

73. time for some mischief!

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

79. BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[CreekDog]

80. cheater

:rofl:

[CreekDog]

118. in fact i do, here's one of his sermons:

The full text of Jeremiah Wright's "Audacity To Hope" sermon in 1990:

Several years ago while I was in Richmond, the Lord allowed me to be in that city during the week of the annual convocation at Virginia Union University School of Theology. There I heard the preaching and teaching of Reverend Frederick G. Sampson of Detroit, Michigan. In one of his lectures, Dr. Sampson spoke of a painting I remembered studying in humanities courses back in the late '50s. In Dr. Sampson's powerful description of the picture, he spoke of it being a study in contradictions, because the title and the details on the canvas seem to be in direct opposition.

The painting's title is "Hope." It shows a woman sitting on top of the world, playing a harp. What more enviable position could one ever hope to achieve than being on top of the world with everyone dancing to your music?

As you look closer, the illusion of power gives way to the reality of pain. The world on which this woman sits, our world, is torn by war, destroyed by hate, decimated by despair, and devastated by distrust. The world on which she sits seems on the brink of destruction. Famine ravages millions of inhabitants in one hemisphere, while feasting and gluttony are enjoyed by inhabitants of another hemisphere. This world is a ticking time bomb, with apartheid in one hemisphere and apathy in the other. Scientists tell us there are enough nuclear warheads to wipe out all forms of life except cockroaches. That is the world on which the woman sits in Watt's painting.

Our world cares more about bombs for the enemy than about bread for the hungry. This world is still more concerned about the color of skin than it is about the content of character—a world more finicky about what's on the outside of your head than about the quality of your education or what's inside your head. That is the world on which this woman sits.

You and I think of being on top of the world as being in heaven. When you look at the woman in Watt's painting, you discover this woman is in hell. She is wearing rags. Her Georgefredericwattshope tattered clothes look as if the woman herself has come through Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Her head is bandaged, and blood seeps through the bandages. Scars and cuts are visible on her face, her arms, and her legs.

I. Illusion of Power vs. Reality of Pain

A closer look reveals all the harp strings but one are broken or ripped out. Even the instrument has been damaged by what she has been through, and she is the classic example of quiet despair. Yet the artist dares to entitle the painting Hope. The illusion of power—sitting on top of the world—gives way to the reality of pain.

And isn't it that way with many of us? We give the illusion of being in an enviable position on top of the world. Look closer, and our lives reveal the reality of pain too deep for the tongue to tell. For the woman in the painting, what looks like being in heaven is actually an existence in a quiet hell.

I've been a pastor for seventeen years. I've seen too many of these cases not to know what I'm talking about. I've seen married couples where the husband has a girlfriend in addition to his wife. It's something nobody talks about. The wife smiles and pretends not to hear the whispers and the gossip. She has the legal papers but knows he would rather try to buy Fort Knox than divorce her. That's a living hell.

I've seen married couples where the wife had discovered that somebody else cares for her as a person and not just as cook, maid jitney service, and call girl all wrapped into one. But there's the scandal: What would folks say? What about the children? That's a living hell.

I've seen divorcees whose dreams have been blown to bits, families broken up beyond repair, and lives somehow slipping through their fingers. They've lost control. That's a living hell.

I've seen college students who give the illusion of being on top of the world—designer clothes, all the sex that they want, all the cocaine or marijuana or drugs, all the trappings of having it all together on the outside—but empty and shallow and hurting and lonely and afraid on the inside. Many times what looks good on the outside—the illusion of being in power, of sitting on top of the world—with a closer look is actually existence in a quiet hell.

That is exactly where Hannah is in 1 Samuel 1 :1-18. Hannah is top dog in this three-way relationship between herself, Elkanah, and Peninnah. Her husband loves Hannah more than he loves his other wife and their children. Elkanah tells Hannah he loves her. A lot of husbands don't do that. He shows Hannah that he loves her, and many husbands never get around to doing that. In fact, it is his attention and devotion to Hannah that causes Peninnah to be so angry and to stay on Hannah's case constantly. Jealous! Jealousy will get hold of you, and you can't let it go because it won't let you go. Peninnah stayed on Hannah, like we say, "as white on rice." She constantly picked at Hannah, making her cry, taking her appetite away.

At first glance Hannah's position seems enviable. She had all the rights and none of the responsibilities—no diapers to change, no beds to sit beside at night, no noses to wipe, nothing else to wipe either, no babies draining you of your milk and demanding feeding. Hannah was top dog. No baby portions to fix at meal times. Her man loved her; everybody knew he loved her. He loved her more than anything or anybody. That's why Peninnah hated her so much.

Now, except for the second-wife bit, which was legal back then, Hannah was sitting on top of the world, until you look closer. When you look closer, what looked like being in heaven was actually existing in a quiet hell.

Hannah had the pain of a bitter woman to contend with, for verse 7 says that nonstop, Peninnah stayed with her. Hannah suffered the pain of living with a bitter woman. And she suffered another pain—the pain of a barren womb. You will remember the story of the widow in 2 Kings 4 who had no child. The story of a woman with no children was a story of deep pathos and despair in biblical days.

Do you remember the story of Sarah and what she did in Genesis 16 because of her barren womb—before the three heavenly visitors stopped by their tent? Do you remember the story of Elizabeth and her husband in Luke I? Back in Bible days, the story of a woman with a barren womb was a story of deep pathos. And Hannah was afflicted with the pain of a bitter woman on the one hand and the pain of a barren womb on the other.

Hannah's world was flawed, flaky. Her garments of respectability were tattered and torn, and her heart was bruised and bleeding from the constant attacks of a jealous woman. The scars and scratches on her psyche are almost visible as you look at this passage, where she cries, refusing to eat anything. Just like the woman in Watt's painting, what looks like being in heaven is actually existence in a quiet hell.

Now I want to share briefly with you about Hannah—the lady and the Lord. While I do so, I want you to be thinking about where you live and your own particular pain predicament. Think about it for a moment.

Dr. Sampson said he wanted to quarrel with the artist for having the gall to name that painting Hope when all he could see in the picture was hell—a quiet desperation. But then Dr. Sampson said he noticed that he had been looking only at the horizontal dimensions and relationships and how this woman was hooked up with that world on which she sat. He had failed to take into account her vertical relationships. He had not looked above her head. And when he looked over her head, he found some small notes of music moving joyfully and playfully toward heaven.
II. The Audacity to Hope

Then, Dr. Sampson began to understand why the artist titled the painting "Hope." In spite of being in a world torn by war, in spite of being on a world destroyed by hate and decimated by distrust, in spite of being on a world where famine and greed are uneasy bed partners, in spite of being on a world where apartheid and apathy feed the fires of racism and hatred, in spite of being on a world where nuclear nightmare draws closer with each second, in spite of being on a ticking time bomb, with her clothes in rags, her body scarred and bruised and bleeding, her harp all but destroyed and with only one string left, she had the audacity to make music and praise God. The vertical dimension balanced out what was going on in the horizontal dimension.

And that is what the audacity to hope will do for you. The apostle Paul said the same thing. "You have troubles? Glory in your trouble. We glory in tribulation." That's the horizontal dimension. We glory in tribulation because, he says, "Tribulation works patience. And patience works experience. And experience works hope. (That's the vertical dimension.) And hope makes us not ashamed." The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal dimension. That is the real story here in the first chapter of 1 Samuel. Not the condition of Hannah's body, but the condition of Hannah's soul—her vertical dimension. She had the audacity to keep on hoping and praying when there was no visible sign on the horizontal level that what she was praying for, hoping for, and waiting for would ever be answered in the affirmative.

What Hannah wanted most out of life had been denied to her. Think about that. Yet in spite of that, she kept on hoping. The gloating of Peninnah did not make her bitter. She kept on hoping. When the family made its pilgrimage to the sanctuary at Shiloh, she renewed her petition there, pouring out her heart to God. She may have been barren, but that's a horizontal dimension. She was fertile in her spirit, her vertical dimension. She prayed and she prayed and she prayed and she kept on praying year after year. With no answer, she kept on praying. She prayed so fervently in this passage that Eli thought she had to be drunk. There was no visible sign on the horizontal level to indicate to Hannah that her praying would ever be answered. Yet, she kept on praying.

And Paul said something about that, too. No visible sign? He says, "Hope is what saves us, for we are saved by hope. But hope that is seen is not hope. For what a man sees, why does he have hope for it? But if we hope for that which we see not (no visible sign), then do we with patience wait for it."

That's almost an echo of what the prophet Isaiah said: "They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength." The vertical dimension balances out what is going on in the horizontal dimension.

There may not be any visible sign of a change in your individual situation, whatever your private hell is. But that's just the horizontal level. Keep the vertical level intact, like Hannah. You may, like the African slaves, be able to sing, "Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. Over my head I hear music in the air. There must be a God somewhere."

Keep the vertical dimension intact like Hannah. Have the audacity to hope for that child of yours. Have the audacity to hope for that home of yours. Have the audacity to hope for that church of yours. Whatever it is you've been praying for, keep on praying, and you may find, like my grandmother sings, "There's a bright side somewhere; there is a bright side somewhere. Don't you rest until you find it, for there is a bright side somewhere."
III. Persistence of Hope

The real lesson Hannah gives us from this chapter—the most important word God would have us hear—is how to hope when the love of God is not plainly evident. It's easy to hope when there are evidences all around of how good God is. But to have the audacity to hope when that love is not evident—you don't know where that somewhere is that my grandmother sang about, or if there will ever be that brighter day—that is a true test of a Hannah-type faith. To take the one string you have left and to have the audacity to hope—make music and praise God on and with whatever it is you've got left, even though you can't see what God is going to do—that's the real word God will have us hear from this passage and from Watt's painting.

There's a true-life illustration that demonstrates the principles portrayed so powerfully in this periscope. And I close with it. My mom and my dad used to sing a song that I've not been able to find in any of the published hymnals. It's an old song out of the black religious tradition called "Thank you, Jesus." It's a very simple song. Some of you have heard it. It's simply goes, "Thank you Jesus. I thank you Jesus. I thank you Jesus. I thank you Lord." To me they always sang that song at the strangest times—when the money got low, or when the food was running out. When I was getting in trouble, they would start singing that song. And I never understood it, because as a child it seemed to me they were thanking God that we didn't have any money, or thanking God that we had no food, or thanking God that I was making a fool out of myself as a kid.
Conclusion: Hope is What Saves Us

But I was only looking at the horizontal level. I did not understand nor could I see back then the vertical hookup that my mother and my father had. I did not know then that they were thanking him in advance for all they dared to hope he would do one day to their son, in their son, and through their son. That's why they prayed. That's why they hoped. That's why they kept on praying with no visible sign on the horizon. And I thank God I had praying parents, because now some thirty-five years later, when I look at what God has done in my life, I understand clearly why Hannah had the audacity to hope. Why my parents had the audacity to hope.

And that's why I say to you, hope is what saves us. Keep on hoping; keep on praying. God does hear and answer prayer.

[blm]

69. Actually, I DO know it for a fact and posted about it last week. McClatchy has been sitting on a

story for a few weeks now about a survey they conducted of the remaining Supers, and Obama has the math, any way you want to slice it. Clintons KNOW this but are hoping something takes Obama down, and McClatchy is hedging their bets.

Those of you working to MAKE Obama go down are really wrong about this - siding with closed government the way you do is just plain, old WRONG!

[rateyes]

99. Speculation?

You do a lousy job of it. Wake up and smell the facts. Hillary is going down.

[roguevalley]

107. considering they aren't all fogging to Hillary in her time of crisis.

where are they? Don't you think if they TRULY felt her pain, they would be coming out of the woodwork to help her?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EmilyAnne]

10. Don't you mean why Hillary CAN win? Good grief. The rules don't change in anyone's favor. Obama's

lead will give him the edge in the minds of the superdelegates, however. So, while the rules do change, I think Obama will have the edge and he will win.

[rodeodance]

59. you only ASSume to know what will be in the 'minds" of the Deles come Denver.

[EmilyAnne]

112. Yes. That's pretty much the only thing any of us can do as far as predicting that outcome of the

convention.

[Road Scholar]

11. You must be one of the "Gals". dream on. ROFLMAO

[RichardRay]

12. I would sincerely suggest that you get in the Porsche

for which you have such tender feelings and putt right on into the sunset.

1 - I think at this point it's pretty likely Barack Obama will be the nominee. In that case I will gleefully work my butt off to get him elected, joyfully cast my vote for him in November and happily contribute all the money I can to his campaign.

2 - If Clinton gets the nod somehow I will dutifully do what I can to get her elected, cast my vote as I know I should and probably send a few bucks her way.

BUT, the more of your BS I have to put up with the harder it will be to do the second thing if that's what it comes to. I really hope you're a troll of some stripe so that my determination to support the Democratic candidate will be in response to a person with opinions with which I inherently disagree, rather that in response to a person whom I could have liked.

[jillan]

13. The Obama supporters only want the rules to count when it is in their favor.

Superdelegates? Nah, they shouldn't count unless they vote the way their state went. Except of course for Mass, that state can vote how they want. Doesn't matter that SDs are written into the DNC rules as able to vote how they want.

2025 delegates needed to secure the nomination - nah - that doesn't count in this election.

Votes not being counted? Ok this time around because it's different than it was in 2000.
Popular vote? Same thing.

Might as well throw the rule book away.

[The Doctor.]

45. So you're saying that superdelegates should ignore the will of the people?

Why do you hate America?

[Arkansas Granny]

92. The superdelegates are not bound by the will of the people. Their purpose

is to give their votes to the candidate that they think will be the best for the Democratic party as a whole.

[The Doctor.]

109. Right, then why bother having primaries?

[Arkansas Granny]

110. I don't understand all of the mechanics of the nominating process.

Some states have primaries, some have caucuses, some states don't even get to vote many times until after we have a presumed nominee. However, that's the system that has been decided by the DNC. The superdelegates could conceivably pledge their support contrary to the popular vote.

:shrug:

[spooky3]

97. if the Dem party did not want them to exercise judgment, they wouldn't have

built superdelegates into the process.

You may want to check out the history of this process.

[CreekDog]

51. why didn't we start hearing this until Hillary was behind?

I mean, Obama never said that when it looked like he was the underdog.

[rodeodance]

85. you need a big pillow to whin on

[CreekDog]

89. i preferred it when you had me on ignore

:rofl:

[rateyes]

101. Tell me, what is a "whin" and how do you do it on a pillow? nt

[Duke Newcombe]

67. Are you consistant about "the rules" when it comes to FL and MI?

Somehow, methinks not. I know for damned sure your candidate of choice isn't, especially when changing them benefits her.

Duke

[rodeodance]

84. valid appeals are within the rules. too bad for you.

[Duke Newcombe]

95. and when your "valid appeals" (whatever that means) are denied?

You'll be okay with this, of course. :sarcasm:

Duke

[rodeodance]

117. so far both states are looking for a solution. As long as something is agreed

upon by all concerned.

[wileedog]

14. There are no "rules"

Multiple Superdelegates have said over and over publicly that they would be insane and want no part of turning over the pledged delegate vote.

Anybody who really thinks it is going to happen is beyond delusional.

[Upton]

15. The officials don't come in and award the trailing team the victory either

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bilgewaterbill]

18. You seem concerned.

[LuvMyPorsche]

22. well

I just think that when it comes down to it... Bill and Hillary have the "machine" behind them.

[bilgewaterbill]

33. Their "machine" hasn't put them ahead in the delegate count.

Are you afraid?

[KittyWampus]

19. Why the Fuck would super delegates support Hillary? She's insulted/ignored Dems in so many states

[sniffa]

20. I'm glad you're still not banned

and that you brought this up. It's true, the Clintons will do and say anything to win. I'm glad the country is finally willing to bury the the 3rd Way. :patriot:

[LuvMyPorsche]

23. why

would I be banned? I don't attack anyone personally and I support the same candidate that approx. 50% of all DU'ers support.

[sniffa]

34. I'm glad you're still not banned

:patriot:

[The Doctor.]

52. 50%? Try barely 30%...

Most of DU is fed up with the DLC, and Clinton is more closely tied to the DLC's interests.

[PerfectSage]

21. Anytime someone mentions Hillary and win in the same sentence...

...that person needs help.


Five Ways Toward Accepting the Death of a Loved One

http://ezinearticles.com/?Five-Ways-Toward-Accepting-the-Death-of-a-Loved-One&id=499085

[LuvMyPorsche]

25. no

Obama can't survive a GE fight.

He's vulnerable and the repugs will show up like never before. The yellow tooth crowd and the knuckledraggers will file out of their caves and they listen to all the "swift boat" type stuff.

[Duke Newcombe]

72. PerfectSage...you owe me a new keyboard on a MacBook Pro! eom

:)

Duke

[rateyes]

102. The only state that matters to HIllary right now is the one you live in:

The state of denial.

[cbayer]

24. wow, why so much nastiness towards the OP?

Ok, so you don't agree. But repeated attacks? Calling the poster a troll? Attacking their user name and automobile preference?

It was just an expressed opinion.

What happened to civility?

(I do note that many did disagree in a civil fashion - I'm just responding to the ugly replies).

[paulk]

29. it's all that love and hope and unity...

that the Obama campaign inspires in it's supporters.

[Exilednight]

26. It will never happen, the rules don't change until after the first ballot......

and we will have a nominee on the first ballot.

[LuvMyPorsche]

27. yeah

and Hillary is just gonna roll up her tent and say "Ok, just give it to BO"??

Nah.

[Exilednight]

30. She's not going to roll over, but .....

if every delegate votes for one of the two candidates, and they will, the nomination will be determined on the first ballot.

[PseudoIntellect]

28. HAHA. So basically, the pledged delegates don't matter.

And no matter what, whenever the 4th quarter ends, this race will be tied 50/50.

You must really reject or hate 7th-grade math to be in the position you're in.

[LuvMyPorsche]

31. do

do all of you BO supporters REALLY want to lose in 08? Is it "worth it" to die on your principles? Imagine what McOldguy will do in the first 4 years...

1) Appoint 1-2 more Scalia's
2) Another war?
3) Run the deficit higher while rescuing millionaires from higher taxes.

[Exilednight]

better to die on my principle than win by selling my soul.

[rodeodance]

44. who did you sell your soul to?

[Exilednight]

46. No one, and that's why I will not vote for Hillary. I refuse to compromise my beliefs.

[rodeodance]

49. No one, and that's why I will not vote for BO. I refuse to compromise my beliefs.

[Exilednight]

55. Then I have to question your belief system, because it's sure not progressive.

[rodeodance]

61. you only ASSume that. Foolish of you since you do not know me.

[Exilednight]

62. Awwww, Don't go away mad.....

just go away.

[rodeodance]

78. BOO

[high density]

37. Obama is in the lead

So it's up to your gal to drop out and mend the rifts of the party here. This "stop while you're ahead" thing doesn't work in political races. :rofl:

[gristy]

32. Wow!

The first 4 quarters mean nothing? You mean they both start from 0 delegates? Or they somehow exactly split the total pledged delegates? The things I learn on DU! :rofl:

[LuvMyPorsche]

35. Inspired by all the HOPE on DU

I'm going to go and donate another $50 to Hillary thru the DU portal.

[Duke Newcombe]

74. It's a free country...

You are entitled to throw away your money any way you see fit. Just save some for Obama later on, mkay?

Duke

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

36. Your screen name sucks.

I say that as someone who is disgusted that you offer even the most lukewarm support for Sen. Clinton.

I'll bet some of Sen. Obama's supporters are pleased that your arrogant self is aligning away from him. The more principled of them, though, probably also think you screen name sucks. :hi:

on edit: if your screen name is meant to be ironic, I apologize, somewhat. :-)

[LuvMyPorsche]

50. not

that it's necessary to explain... but I bought a new Porsche after driving Chevy's, Honda's and old Ford's while I put my wife through med school, put my kids through college and built my own business. I've paid my dues left, right and center.

It's MY time. Capitalism is not a crime.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

56. "Greed Is Good" Gordon Gecko.

You have a wife, children and a business, but your love is reserved for your Porsche.

:hi:

[IndianaGreen]

39. I love my Chevy

I only saw Porsches in Germany, but the Army didn't pay me enough money for me to afford one. I am with the working poor now.

[adoraz]

41. lol, in your dreams

Obama will be the nominee, and I find it sad people are still in denial.

[rodeodance]

42. REC

[azmouse]

43. Wake up and smell the coffee.

She won't win the nomination.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. and that's the game folks

[rodeodance]

58. it really is. I posted an article that talked of the Myth of the superdelegates or

something like that.


anyway. it was historical--anything can happen. it is not necessarily the numbers game.

[jenmito]

57. You sound EXACTLY like another poster who kept arguing with me that the "will of the people" is crap

I wonder what happened to that poster! :eyes:

[LuvMyPorsche]

66. will of the people is the excuse line for the obamanites

After the Wright flap and the understanding of BO's vulnerabilities...

pledged delegates may reconsider and lean towards the winning side (Hillary)

[anonymous171]

68. FASCISM 08: FUCK THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!

[jenmito]

86. Funny. That's what the "other" poster said, too! And why did Obama just gain 10 more delegates

yesterday? The Wright flap was in FULL-BLOWN mode. The will of the people is the pledged delegates and the popular vote. Nancy Pelosi as well as others said they will follow the number of pledged delegates in order to judge who to support. That will continue to be Obama. I couldn't care less whether you agree with that or not. And neither do the superdelegates. :hi:

[depakid]

60. Under the rules (and historically) -none of the above could win

It's an outcome worth considering, depending on what happens in the next couple of months.

Could be that both candidates would be untenable by then....

[anonymous171]

63. Wasn't there another poster who kept talking about "TEH RULES"

BTW if that's the case then MI and FL shouldn't have their delegates seated. The violated the rules after all.

[nsd]

65. This is not going into overtime.

No matter what happens with FL and MI, the odds are that Obama will still lead by every measure come mid-June. No matter how big or small that lead is, the superdelegates are then going to move en masse towards him, for the sake of the party and the down-ballot races in November. The Clinton people can argue all they want, but it won't matter. The party is bigger than them. No way the rest of the party lets them take it to the convention.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

77. "assuming Denver doesn't burn to the ground". As a citizen of Denver, I must ask.

Why do you assume it will remain standing? :hi:


on edit: your threat is cute! :hi:

[krawhitham]

76. you don't really understand how it works do you?

someone will have 2025 on the 1st vote, UNLESS the SD vote for a 3rd person

This will not be a brokered convention, UNLESS the SD vote for a 3rd person

[dailykoff]

81. Um, you left out the part where the delegates vote for her.

Except the Florida and Ohio delegations, natch. :rofl:

[RiverStone]

82. If the referee's decide the outcome, fans will leave the stadium in droves...

To use your analogy, that would be like the refs reversing the score when it was VERY OBVIOUS the winning team won on points. That final touchdown (in overtime) clearly showed on instant replay that the ball crossed the plane of the goal-line, but the refs over turned it anyway.

The Dems chances in the GE would be fucked and the fans as well as the party would suffer this decision for a generation (or more.

I see it as a doomsday scenario and challenge anybody to tell me having the SD's reversing the will of the people and delegates would result in anything better than an utter disaster for the party

[rodeodance]

88. Then Obama fans as well as Hillary's fans best not leave

[Scurrilous]

83. "It's like a football game and the overtime period."

You only play OT when the teams are tied at the end of regulation. Obama is ahead and Hillary has no chance of catching up and tying him.

Therefore no OT. :thumbsup:

[seriousstan]

93. Football analogies?.......OK....2,025 is the goal line. Nobody scores it is OT.

It doesn't matter how many yards either team has racked up passing, rushing or penalties.

[texas_indy]

90. Wrong analogy. It would be a "coup d’état" by the party elite if the super delegates

don't support the person with the majority of delegates.

Lets see, you state: "It will come down to the convention and that's like Overtime in football. The first four quarters mean nothing."

Every game I've every attended or seen never had the spectators voting and deciding which team gets how many points and when.

I've only seen games where the teams WON points based on the play of the actual TEAM MEMBERS.

[sudopod]

94. lol

we're all impressed by your small peni-, I mean, nice car. :P

[IdClaire]

96. two thirds of the SD's aren't elected officials

and can use their judgement as to who will the general election and that might help her. Besides Kerry and Kennedy didn't go with the electorate in their states so what about them?

[rateyes]

98. Since when is "the will of the people" crap?

Enjoy your dream while it lasts. Obama is going to be the nominee.

[anigbrowl]

100. The football analogy fails: scores aren't tied

Sure, the situation is different because Team Clinton can go around to delegates personally and offer gists with one hand while arguing that Obama has some Dreadful Secret with the other, and dramatic swings could occur. But equally Obama's people could be wandering around with the 'real deal' on some Clinton scandal and wrapping them up. It might all change radically, but the reality is that clinton will still need to persuade some ~150 more delegates than Obama will.

[Upton]

103. Continuing with your football analogy

games go into overtime when tied, this race isn't tied. Going into Denver, Obama will have a discernible lead. Are you advocating the officials vacate that lead and give the game to the trailer Clinton?

[Forkboy]

105. Obama is like the Patriots...he's running up the score.

[nyccitizen]

108. You can get the most points in the 4th quarter and still lose the game.

Democrats cannot win the GE without African-American voters. Period. If the overwhelmingly white superdelegates hand it to Hillary at the convention despite Obama leading in pledged delegates and the legit popular vote, Blacks will NOT vote for Hillary in November and she will lose. In fact, you will see many crossing over to vote for McCain.

In June, after all the primaries are over and any FL/MI re-votes are finished, the superdelegates need to commit right away and do a pre-convention straw vote. The loser (almost certainly Hillary) must then withdraw immediately so the party can go to Denver with a unified candidate. If she tries to fight those results by changing the rules or trying to flip delegates before Denver it'll be '68 and '72 all over again.

[techtrainer]

111. Whoever controls the Rules Committee - Wins! (nt)

[George_Bonanza]

113. Football only goes to overtime if the contest is TIED

As of right now, Obama's winning. No overtime needed. Your analogy fails miserably.

[Arugula Latte]

114. nevermind

[AZBlue]

115. "The RULES change then." Care to explain that?

Or is this just another empty Clinton meme?

[Johnny__Motown]

116. Delusional, Barack will need fewer SDs to win, it isn't a tie.

[txaslftist]

119. Win what?

The nomination?

What's that going to be worth if he goes into the convention with more votes and delegates and she comes out with it?

She may get the nomination, but if she does that after he's carried a majority of votes into the convention, she can kiss the election goodbye, and the Democratic Party can kiss the younger generation and black vote goodbye, too.

We can look forward to Republican leadership for a long time.