How exactly could we 'draft' another candidate?

[WilliamPitt]

John Kerry has 2,162 delegates:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard/

Some here are enjoying the Village Voice article demanding that the Democrats draft another candidate, because the Voice is unhappy with Kerry:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0417/mondo1.php

Note well that no blueprint whatsoever is provided by Mr. Ridgeway to describe how this could be done. It is also a premise eerily similar to one provided by Ridgeway in 2000:

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0028/ridgeway.php

How Can the Democrats Go With Him? Dump Gore

Mondo Washington
by James Ridgeway
July 12 - 18, 2000

A look at Al Gore's just-released interview with the Justice Department's campaign-finance task force director not only makes the vice president look like a barefaced liar but also makes you wonder why Janet Reno has not prosecuted him and why this man is the certain nominee of the Democratic Party.

The interrogation of Gore by task force director Robert J. Conrad, analyzed in a devastating piece in the July 8 Washington Post, centers around the scandal-ridden White House coffees, where big shots paid big bucks to gain access to the president and vice president in social settings. Questioned by Conrad in April, Gore denied attending any of the coffees. But two days later, his attorney, James Neal, wrote Conrad a letter saying that indeed Gore had hosted 21 coffees in the Old Executive Office Building and attended four others at the White House. In explaining the about-face, Neal said Gore had gotten mixed up because he hadn't been prepared to answer questions about "EOB coffees." It is safe to say that there is no one in official Washington—except maybe Clinton himself—who would try to imply that the Old Executive Office Building isn't part of the White House complex.

...more...

Leaving all that aside, I'd be interested in hearing from people here who think a 'Dump Kerry' process would be a good idea. I'd like to know exactly how this could be accomplished without, quite literally, handing the 2004 election to George W. Bush.

"Just do it" is not an answer.

[DinahMoeHum]

1. "Nothing-But-The-Best-For-The-Oppressed" strikes again, Will. . .

screw 'em anyway.

:kick:

[jobycom]

2. Sorry, but I'm sticking with the old "Dump Bush" movement.

Kerry's the choice of the Democratic voters, so he's mine, barring something horrible.

I don't quite understand this sudden dissatisfaction with him. He's doing everything we've all been hoping a candidate would. He fights back, he calls Bush names, he accused him of lying. I couldn't have written a better script.

I'm guessing the Repubs are out in force disinforming Democratic voters, but I'd thought we were smarter than that this time. Must not be.

[Cocoa]

3. OEB coffees

I don't recall that scandal, but I'm sure it was really important. /sarcasm

[papau]

4. The Village Voice Dump Kerry comes down to Ridgeway and Schanberg op-eds

Thanks for pointing out the James Ridgeway "dump the Dem" column re-write that he does to pay the rent every few months.

As for book selling Schanberg ("Did America Abandon Vietnam War POWs?" by Sydney H. Schanberg) and his POW blast at Kerry in his op-ed http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0408/schanberg.php Senator Covered Up Evidence of P.O.W.'s Left Behind - - When John Kerry's Courage Went M.I.A. - by Sydney H. Schanberg -February 24th, 2004 1:00 PM, well he does the same article every few months to sell his book (Related Articles: "Did America Abandon Vietnam War POWs?" by Sydney H. Schanberg ). Of course the real heros like McCain slap him down, knowing the years Kerry put into the POW/MIA quest.

But it is interesting to see Nader/Bush folks pushing the "Village Voice anti-Kerry" angle on DU.

:toast:

:-)

[KC21304]

8. Nader/Bush folks, indeed. n/t

[AP]

12. I remember reading a really good article years ago -- part

cultural criticism, part detective story -- about how the "POWs left behind" movement was a whole lot of bullshit that was driven by shady right wingers looking for money from gullible people, and looking to create a mood that justified a lot of Reagan's BS in central and south america.

IIRC correctly it drew a connection between the shady people pushing the movement and the producers of the Deer Hunter, which was considered a commerical advertisement for the movement.

[Zomby Woof]

5. DRAFT GORE!!!

For those of you nostalgic for the summer of '03 on DU. :crazy:

[Forkboy]

6. We can't,and it's a waste of time trying

[mrgorth]

7. Anyone who thinks

the wing nuts wouldn't eviscerate ANYONE we put up there is undeserving of oxygen.

[Claire Beth]

10. well said! n/t

[AntiCoup2K4]

11. Yes, but some would actually fight back.

The other guy in your picture, for example.

[mrgorth]

14. I know

I voted for him, donated money, walked through a foot of snow in below freezing weather...all I could. If he couldn't beat Kerry he couldn't beat Bush. Look, I'd love to see him running against Bush but we can't make it happen. It's support Kerry or learn how to say "Sieg Heil!"

[zoeyfong]

42. Wrong; elections, like evolution, are entirely local and temporal.

It is wrong to say that if dean couldn't beat kerry, he can't beat bush; those are two completely different elections. First of all, dems were strategizing when they chose kerry in the primary (please don't deny it), but in the GE, all left of center votes will go to the dem candidate (or 3rd party left of center candidates). Right now, there is no anti-war candidate among the two major parties; let's face it, that is going to cost the dems votes. The calulation was that kerry would pick up more pro-war centrist votes than he lost on the left. But why would he? No one for whom war support is a primary issue is going to vote for a "Mass. liberal." Kerry has nothing to run on; he can't attack on the war, and no one is listening on anything else. Dean (or Clark) on the other hand could be attacking forcefully on the war, and at the same time offering bold policy plans on other issues. Dean could *win* this election; with kerry, the best we can hope for is that bush loses it.

[emulatorloo]

16. Would he? or would he whine about being a "pincussion?"

Actually if you read stuff or watch interviews you will see that JK is fighting back and will continue to do so. . .

[NoPasaran]

9. Write everybody's name on a bean

Put the beans in a big jar, shake 'em up, and pick a bean. It worked in World War One.

[ACK]

13. This is how you do it ... first pray... then

God will open up the heavens during the Democratic convention on live television.

Then a holy man will drop out of the sky. The perfect candidate.

He will have the charisma of John Edwards. The speaking ability of Bill Clinton. He will have the money raising and new media skills of Howard Dean. He will have the military background of Wesley Clark. He in his grand and perfect glory will have the grassroots organizing skills of Paul Wellstone and the grand platform of Kuinich.

He will come as our savior from the holy heavens and deliver us from the evil of John Kerry and George W. Bush. All of Village Voice will praise him and Rove will fall dead at the sight of the holy savior. All will be good with the world again and DU'ers will post forever in peace.

OMG, I think I am going to cry.

:silly:

Come on Will didn't you know that is the way it would go down if only the mean Dem establishment would allow it to happen?

+

[genius]

15. Is anyone else concerned about safety at the Democratic Convention?

The Republicans got away with sending anthrax to the Democrats. They probably think they can get away with doing anything to the Democrats and then using it to bolster Bush's re-election.

[sandnsea]

17. Thanks Will

Hope it helps.

[Zorra]

18. Draft another candidate? Why?

Ridgeway writes like a literate freeper trying to bust up Dem unity.

He's FOS.

We need to stand united. There are only 6 months left before the election.

JK is kicking ass and taking names on the front page right now. Just like we've been screaming for our Dems to do for the past 3+ years.

[trumad]

19. Well he's good enough for TruthOut!

Will...don't use this guy anymore...Please

[WilliamPitt]

21. I saw your other thread but was too busy to reply

You and I are on the same page.

[mitchum]

20. Click our heels together 3 times?

Kerry 2004

[eumesmo]

22. Good find

on the dump Gore article.

[Classical_Liberal]

23. I didn't see anyone say it was workable

I only saw sentiment that they would like this to happen.

[WilliamPitt]

24. An apt description of a lot of thinking around here

"I don't care if it's feasable. I just want it!"

:eyes:

[KoKo]

31. That's a ridiculous statement. n/t

[jonnyblitz]

48. very ridiculous n/t

[sangh0]

25. LOL!!!

Interpretation - "We don't care if it's unrealistic. Let's discuss!!!"

And these are the people who post "advice" to Kerry on how to win the GE.

[Classical_Liberal]

26. I didn't support the position so I don't know what

you are talking about.

[sangh0]

28. And I said nothing about you

so I don't think you even know what YOU're talking about

[KoKo]

37. They are talking about "Village Voice's" idiotic Ridgway columns about

Dump Kerry...but it turns out that he had written a "Dump Gore!" column back before 2000 Selection. The man must be an idiot if he thought folks couldn't remember his old column or do a "Google" on it.

It was all hashed out last night on DU and those harping on in now are really just beating a dead horse.

I don't have a problem with folks discussing fantasy alternatives to Kerry here on DU, but no one could do that because we are all supposed to be "Lock Step" and responding to some damned "marching orders."

Kerry is the "Presumed Candidate," btw. He isn't the real candidate until the Dem Convention July 26th, when his nomination has to be voted on. But folks here want to cut out any talk or speculation as if he commands our "True Loyalty" right now. Dennis Kucinich is our other Dem Candidate. And, Mr. Pitt, as you know, was for a time his Press Spokesperson.

How short his memory is....and how he loves to trash his fellow DU'ers as mindless imbeciles who need to be kept "inline."

[Padraig18]

27. It took me long enough to get ON board, I'll be DAMNED if I get off now!

He wasn't my first OR second choice, but by God, he's the choice of my party, fair and square. I am a D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T, and I plan to work my fingers to the bloody bone to see that John Kerry becomes the next President of the United States of America.

SCREW THE SECOND-GUESSERS!

[Toucano]

29. I don't think we need to draft another candidate.

But I bet there's a back door for emergency or scandal.

Could it be this:

J. Motion to Suspend the Rules: The Chair
shall entertain a motion to suspend the
rules, which shall be decided without
debate and which shall require a vote of
two thirds of the delegates voting, a
quorum being present.

http://www.dems2004.org/atf/cf/{18A79F5B-DCA3-4A5F-8970-79F0CFD7E0B2}/convention.pdf

Or perhaps the following:

c. All delegates to the National
Convention pledged to a
presidential candidate shall in all
good conscience reflect the
sentiments of those who elected
them.

It would only take a few people to argue that, in good conscience, those who elected them now have a different sentiment. There doesn't appear to be a process for prosecuting delegates who might do this.

Of course, there's also the voluntary withdrawal of Kerry as a candidate. He could say he refuses to accept the nomination.

Any of these scenarios would be BAD BAD BAD for the Democratic party, but if we're asking if it's possible, I do think it is possible.

Even after the convention, in an emergency, the Democratic governors association and democratic members of Congress could choose another nominee to replace one who becomes ill or dies.

[KoKo]

30. Do you have a link to those here "enjoying" the Voice article? Seems to

me, (and I saw all three Voice articles posted here on DU)last night, that folks weren't "Enjoying" it. Most didn't get what it was all about. It wasn't until another DU'er pointed out the link to the Ridgway "Dump Gore" article that folks understood what was going on there.

I'm glad you posted using both articles. I had thought about doing it myself, but figured that last nights posts has pretty much taken care of the problem.

I applaud you for doing the post, but not for trashing DU'ers who did not applaud this. :-(

"Stirring the Pot" about who would be drafted based on Ridgway's stupid column is one thing. Might get some good discussion. But trashing DU'ers for Ridgeway's column is a different horse!

[rmjohnston]

32. Via a "Brokered Convention"

Technically, we could nominate anyone we want, actual delegates notwithstanding.

[sangh0]

33. ummm

If Kerry wins on the first ballot, and that looks inevitable, there will be no brokered convention.

The technical term for what you're doing is "grasping at straws"

[rmjohnston]

35. Wishful thinking :)

Hey... whatever works :)

[Bryan]

38. No, it could happen

If Kerry gets up on stage at the Fleet Center in a rainbow wig and a thong bikini and gives the "CAN YOU DIG IT!?" oratory from the movie The Warriors, he won't be the nominee, I guarantee you. :silly:

[rmjohnston]

40. LOL!

LOL! That's not a picture I wanted in my head!

[zoeyfong]

43. OTOH, if he drives a Hummer on stage, firing an M16 out the window,

he'll be a shoe-in (shoo-in?). I can hardly wait. (to vote for Nader.)

[blondeatlast]

34. Welcome to DU!

There are many here who seem to believe that there is a VIABLE alternative to Kerry and that God Himself will win the nomination.

:toast: and advice: wear washable clothes here in GDCrunchy 'cause the poo flies swiftly and often!

And in truth, it's fun!

[rmjohnston]

36. Thanks!

Thanks for the "welcome mat" :)

Anyway... there must be *someone* better, no?

[mzmolly]

39. There is no need to draft another candidate.

:hi: Kerry just needs to keep the fire he had on Hardball.

[KoKo]

41. A Great End to this Thread! Kerry KEEP THE FIRE!

[RafterMan]

44. Stage a health problem

That's how you'd do it, but I don't think it's a good idea.

[GalleryGod]

46. Sounds like "Coffee Talk" with Linda Richmond!

Sheesh! Just go a-way.

Nobody's asking you to sleep with the guy.

[GalleryGod]

45. Nat Henthoff never would've let this Article Run in '56!

Primarily-what an Effin' "One Trick Pony" this guy is! He literally "stole" that pay check.
Idiot. Tough shit! Don't vote then.




BTW: Nat is a reference for us older folks.

[jonnyblitz]

47. no, most of us are aware we are stuck with Kerry

and will vote for him in November. It's just nice to see what many of us think and fantasize about in writing.